What do Libertarians and Independents think about Trump’s shock and awe approach to getting shit done?

Can you tell us how Trump is interfering in the free market?

In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government. Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated work forces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government. And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government.

Which explains why when Reagan began applying conservative economics, the middle class began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

What they're really saying is, "Stop government from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade."

And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business. If you want to play the game of business, then you have to play in a way that both makes you money AND serves the public interest.

The "middle class" is not the natural result of freeing business to do whatever it wants, of "free and open markets," or of "free trade." The "middle class" is not a normal result of "free markets." The middle class is a new invention of liberal democracies, the result of governments defining the rules of business.

When government sets the rules in such a way that working people must receive a living wage & labor has the power to organize into unions a middle class will emerge. When government gives up these functions, the middle class vanishes. But, conservatives say government is the problem, not the solution.

Do you disagree?
 
In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government. Governments provide a stable currency to make markets possible. They provide a legal infrastructure and court systems to enforce the contracts that make markets possible. They provide educated work forces through public education, and those workers show up at their places of business after traveling on public roads, rails, or airways provided by government. Businesses that use the "free market" are protected by police and fire departments provided by government, and send their communications - from phone to fax to internet - over lines that follow public rights-of-way maintained and protected by government. And, most important, the rules of the game of business are defined by government.

Which explains why when Reagan began applying conservative economics, the middle class began to vanish in America in the 1980s - a process that dramatically picked up steam under George W. Bush.

What they're really saying is, "Stop government from defending workers and building a middle class, and let the corporations decide how much to pay for labor and how to trade."

And, since our government is of, by, and for We The People, those rules have historically been set to first maximize the public good resulting from people doing business. If you want to play the game of business, then you have to play in a way that both makes you money AND serves the public interest.

The "middle class" is not the natural result of freeing business to do whatever it wants, of "free and open markets," or of "free trade." The "middle class" is not a normal result of "free markets." The middle class is a new invention of liberal democracies, the result of governments defining the rules of business.

When government sets the rules in such a way that working people must receive a living wage & labor has the power to organize into unions a middle class will emerge. When government gives up these functions, the middle class vanishes. But, conservatives say government is the problem, not the solution.

Do you disagree?
NOPE…All classes are the created by personal desires and ambitions…We all operate within the same system. The middle class has died because the caucasian population has dropped 20 points, because you and pknopp recruited 50 million brown people with no desire or ambition.
 
NOPE…All classes are the created by personal desires and ambitions…We all operate within the same system. The middle class has died because the caucasian population has dropped 20 points, because you and pknopp recruited 50 million brown people with no desire or ambition.

You supported that.
 
We know exactly who “supported that”…..you and I both have a post history here.

Right. You supported it because you'll not find a post where I did so it must be you.
 
It seems to me as a ready-shoot-aim approach.
Most have been conditioned to expect a passive approach, they’ve been taught to believe the Executive should conduct themselves in a pussified manner. We weren’t always nutless. Much about The Good Ole Days are returning…America is finding it’s ballsack again.
 
NOPE…All classes are the created by personal desires and ambitions…We all operate within the same system. The middle class has died because the caucasian population has dropped 20 points, because you and pknopp recruited 50 million brown people with no desire or ambition.
Legal immigrants have far more ambition than you, loser.
 
Most have been conditioned to expect a passive approach, they’ve been taught to believe the Executive should conduct themselves in a pussified manner. We weren’t always nutless. Much about The Good Ole Days are returning…America is finding it’s ballsack again.

My background is mathematical and scientific. I've seen a department manager use a similar approach such as Trump's and it led to disharmony among the staff along with wasted time and money before the manager's butt was shown out the door.
 
Most have been conditioned to expect a passive approach, they’ve been taught to believe the Executive should conduct themselves in a pussified manner. We weren’t always nutless. Much about The Good Ole Days are returning…America is finding it’s ballsack again.

How did Trumps tariffs with China work out last time?

They cost taxpayers billions and farmers never had made up for the lost market.
 
I think now would be a good time to revisit this thread. I was wondering how Libertarian's feel about Trump interfering in the free market?
It is still far too early. And I don't understand why you bleev Trump's interference is any more than the last administration?

The policies that saved Argentina took at least three quarters. We just past the first quarter mark silly.

It is still unknown if all this will work out or not.

One Year, Big Results! How Javier Milei Freed Markets, and Reduced Inflation​

Jan 28, 2025


1 Year Later: How Has Argentina Been Going?​

Dec 8, 2024
 
It is still far too early. And I don't understand why you bleev Trump's interference is any more than the last administration?

The policies that saved Argentina took at least three quarters. We just past the first quarter mark silly.

It is still unknown if all this will work out or not.

One Year, Big Results! How Javier Milei Freed Markets, and Reduced Inflation​

Jan 28, 2025


1 Year Later: How Has Argentina Been Going?​

Dec 8, 2024

Here's what's going to happen. In the end, we aren't going to tariff every country and every product. This is just Trump's starting point. He's even making his supporters wonder if they made a mistake voting for a guy known for going bankrupt. A blowhard. Is pissing off all the other world leaders a good thing to do?

Kellyanne Conway on Thursday attempted to defend Donald Trump’s sweeping new tariffs on countries worldwide that have sent stock markets plunging and sparked fears of a global recession.
But Conway’s spin drew accusations that it was just more “alternative facts” from the former White House counselor, who coined that exact phrase to defend Trump during his first term.

Conway argued on Fox News that Americans should see the new tariffs as something else entirely.

“For everybody saying tariffs are a tax, I think you have to look at them more as the old sanctions,”

Huh?
 
Tariffs. Next question?
So if other nations interfere with the free market? That's fine.

But if the U.S. responds, it's somehow interfering in a, "free market?"

"How did the Trump administration decide what tariffs to charge which countries?​

Mr. Trump said his administration determined the tariff rate for each country based on the monetary levies those nations charge on U.S. imports, as well as non-monetary trade barriers like regulations that make it tougher for American products to enter those markets. . . . "
 
Here's what's going to happen. In the end, we aren't going to tariff every country and every product. This is just Trump's starting point. He's even making his supporters wonder if they made a mistake voting for a guy known for going bankrupt. A blowhard. Is pissing off all the other world leaders a good thing to do?

Kellyanne Conway on Thursday attempted to defend Donald Trump’s sweeping new tariffs on countries worldwide that have sent stock markets plunging and sparked fears of a global recession.
But Conway’s spin drew accusations that it was just more “alternative facts” from the former White House counselor, who coined that exact phrase to defend Trump during his first term.

Conway argued on Fox News that Americans should see the new tariffs as something else entirely.

“For everybody saying tariffs are a tax, I think you have to look at them more as the old sanctions,”

Huh?
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