What do historians really think of Obama

[JakeStarkey]

Most historians think that Obama inherited a bushian mess of monumental proportions and has not shown the almost superhuman ability necessary to cope with it.

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

 

[ladyliberal]

His credibility may very well be AN issue.

However it is not AT issue in this article/

According to dictionary.com, to be at issue is to be disputed or under discussion. Klein's work is certainly at issue in the world at large, and it is at issue in this thread. You are semantically correct in that Klein did not take issue with his own credibility in his own article, but I was certainly correct as well when I said that his credibility is at issue.

 

[hortysir]

Most historians think that Obama inherited a bushian mess of monumental proportions and has not shown the almost superhuman ability necessary to cope with it.

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

If that was all he had to deal with, I'm confident of Obama's abilities to repair that damage.

Compounding those problems with his self-imposed behemoths of governmental bad calls is what piled up to an unmanageable size heap of shit that even SuperHulk couldn't wrangle.

 

[clevergirl]

Most historians think that Obama inherited a bushian mess of monumental proportions and has not shown the almost superhuman ability necessary to cope with it.

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

The housing crisis would have been handled better by Bush then by Obama.

 

[JakeStarkey]

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

If that was all he had to deal with, I'm confident of Obama's abilities to repair that damage. Compounding those problems with his self-imposed behemoths of governmental bad calls is what piled up to an unmanageable size heap of shit that even SuperHulk couldn't wrangle.

He has made bad calls and has been hamstrung by a congressive not divisive as this since the 1948 dixiecrats. But even if he had the pubs trying to help out, I don't think this is recoverable without several major economic dislocations coming along. First, Greece and the euro; second, Spain; third, a major Chinese recession of its own making. We have a long road ahead of us. Those who have been preparing will have a rough time but will weather the storm, hopefully.

 

[Lakhota]

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

If that was all he had to deal with, I'm confident of Obama's abilities to repair that damage.

Compounding those problems with his self-imposed behemoths of governmental bad calls is what piled up to an unmanageable size heap of shit that even SuperHulk couldn't wrangle.

Wingnuts continue desperately to spin and whitewash the Bush legacy. Can you be more specific about exactly which problems Obama inherited and which problems he created from scratch that are causing current problems?

 

[hortysir]

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

If that was all he had to deal with, I'm confident of Obama's abilities to repair that damage.

Compounding those problems with his self-imposed behemoths of governmental bad calls is what piled up to an unmanageable size heap of shit that even SuperHulk couldn't wrangle.

Wingnuts continue desperately to spin and whitewash the Bush legacy. Can you be more specific about exactly which problems Obama inherited and which problems he created from scratch that are causing current problems?

Do you want me to answer with words or NUMBERS?

You will ignore either.

We all know, and readily admit, that Obama took over in the middle of a housing crash.

Problems he created?
How much money has he borrowed??

How much further in debt are we now as compared to when he took office?
Did this increase in borrowing help alleviate any of his "inherited problems"?

 

[blackhawk]

Most historians think that Obama inherited a bushian mess of monumental proportions and has not shown the almost superhuman ability necessary to cope with it.

58 posts before a bushwhack? it's wearing off, at least

Your comment aside, my comment is correct. Obama has not been able to cope with the mess Bush handed to him.

It was not like Obama was caught by surprise by what was waiting for him when he came into office. The economic meltdown began in early September and continued through the election and up till Obama was sworn in. Obama was sworn in January 20th 2009 that is almost 5 months after this started now that is not a huge amount of time but it is enough for him to be better prepared than he was nor does it change the fact the policies he implemented have been mediocre at best. I won't blame Obama for what happened under Bush but nor will I blame Bush for what has happened under Obama.

 

[Lakhota]

If that was all he had to deal with, I'm confident of Obama's abilities to repair that damage.

Compounding those problems with his self-imposed behemoths of governmental bad calls is what piled up to an unmanageable size heap of shit that even SuperHulk couldn't wrangle.

Wingnuts continue desperately to spin and whitewash the Bush legacy. Can you be more specific about exactly which problems Obama inherited and which problems he created from scratch that are causing current problems?

Do you want me to answer with words or NUMBERS?

You will ignore either.

We all know, and readily admit, that Obama took over in the middle of a housing crash.

Problems he created?
How much money has he borrowed??

How much further in debt are we now as compared to when he took office?
Did this increase in borrowing help alleviate any of his "inherited problems"?

Let's just start with the money Obama has borrowed. How much of it is/was due to Bush leftovers and how much did Obama borrow on new stuff unrelated to Bush?

 

[regent]

Interesting, posters tell us it is too early for historians to evaluate Obama, then proceed to evaluate Obama.
Historians have criteria to use in judging, in the last rating historical rating of presidents twenty factors were used to judge. The historian, usually a noted historian, then uses his historical background to evaluate those factors.
I don't know what the average citizen uses to judge, but I suspect it is based on what his political party, and his favorite media have told him about the president's performance. How would the average citizen evaluate William Henry Harrison or John Quincy Adams?

 

[blackhawk]

Interesting, posters tell us it is too early for historians to evaluate Obama, then proceed to evaluate Obama.
Historians have criteria to use in judging, in the last rating historical rating of presidents twenty factors were used to judge. The historian, usually a noted historian, then uses his historical background to evaluate those factors.
I don't know what the average citizen uses to judge, but I suspect it is based on what his political party, and his favorite media have told him about the president's performance. How would the average citizen evaluate William Henry Harrison or John Quincy Adams?

I think you need 20-30 years to pass before you can honestly evaluate a President sooner than that people's political biases and emotions play to much of a role in it.

 

[hortysir]

Interesting, posters tell us it is too early for historians to evaluate Obama, then proceed to evaluate Obama.
Historians have criteria to use in judging, in the last rating historical rating of presidents twenty factors were used to judge. The historian, usually a noted historian, then uses his historical background to evaluate those factors.
I don't know what the average citizen uses to judge, but I suspect it is based on what his political party, and his favorite media have told him about the president's performance. How would the average citizen evaluate William Henry Harrison or John Quincy Adams?

I can evaluate my employees, at any time, based on their performance.

Am I comparing them to anything "historically"?

Obama Sucks! =/= Obama Sucks worse than Hoover!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Klein's credibility is certainly at issue. Why wouldn't an information sources's credibility be relevant to the veracity of the information? Particularly since (in contrast to the meticulously cited Wikipedia article that some in this thread have criticized) Klein relies on a single anonymous source for his information. Worse, he relies on a source who had previously promised not to reveal the information (that is, we know he is dishonest). As Lakhota has noted, Klein's credibility is quite low.

And what does that information, if true, reveal about Obama? That he thinks some Congressmen are palookas? (who doesn't?) That Obama once considered using the phrase "New Foundation" to describe his program? That this one historian (as far as I can tell, Klein miscounts when he purports to reveal a consensus among multiple "historians") thinks that Obama has not communicated as well as that historian expected to? That this historian is not apparently willing to say so on the record?

I do not find that these "revelations" particularly inform an historical consensus about Obama. Of far greater significance to this is the survey (admittedly dated) of historians cited in Lakhota's link. It places Obama quite high. To those that claim that historians are in doubt only as to whether Obama or Carter is the worst president ever note that while Carter does not hold Obama's high ranking, among 20th and 21st century presidents Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Nixon, and Bush II all rank below Carter. So while historians might hold Carter in the lowest esteem of all the Democratic presidents of his era, they still prefer him to the average Republican of his era.

Klein's credibility is in question? Who's question? And why?.
Please answer the questions..
ONe more....The thread is about the opinions of the historians. So why are you liberals avoiding that and making the writer of the the article the story?

 

[ladyliberal]

Interesting, posters tell us it is too early for historians to evaluate Obama, then proceed to evaluate Obama.
Historians have criteria to use in judging, in the last rating historical rating of presidents twenty factors were used to judge. The historian, usually a noted historian, then uses his historical background to evaluate those factors.
I don't know what the average citizen uses to judge, but I suspect it is based on what his political party, and his favorite media have told him about the president's performance. How would the average citizen evaluate William Henry Harrison or John Quincy Adams?

I don't know how random citizens judge the more obscure presidents, but they do better than I expected. A popular ranking put JQA and WHH at 15th and 35th respectively. The professional historians put them at 18th and 38th respectively (Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). So at least some measurable element of the populace seems to know something about such presidents.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wingnuts continue desperately to spin and whitewash the Bush legacy. Can you be more specific about exactly which problems Obama inherited and which problems he created from scratch that are causing current problems?

Do you want me to answer with words or NUMBERS?

You will ignore either.

We all know, and readily admit, that Obama took over in the middle of a housing crash.

Problems he created?
How much money has he borrowed??

How much further in debt are we now as compared to when he took office?
Did this increase in borrowing help alleviate any of his "inherited problems"?

Let's just start with the money Obama has borrowed. How much of it is/was due to Bush leftovers and how much did Obama borrow on new stuff unrelated to Bush?

Blaming Bush is no longer acceptable and will no longer be discussed.
You lefties need to step up and accept responsibility for your actions.

 

[Lakhota]

The myth of Obama's spending binge - The Plum Line - The Washington Post

The reality behind Obama and Bush's 'spending binge' - The Washington Post

Obama spending binge never happened - Rex Nutting - MarketWatch

Washington Liberals - Wall Street Journal: The myth of Obama’s spending binge

 

[regent]

Interesting, posters tell us it is too early for historians to evaluate Obama, then proceed to evaluate Obama.
Historians have criteria to use in judging, in the last rating historical rating of presidents twenty factors were used to judge. The historian, usually a noted historian, then uses his historical background to evaluate those factors.
I don't know what the average citizen uses to judge, but I suspect it is based on what his political party, and his favorite media have told him about the president's performance. How would the average citizen evaluate William Henry Harrison or John Quincy Adams?

I can evaluate my employees, at any time, based on their performance.

Am I comparing them to anything "historically"?

Obama Sucks! =/= Obama Sucks worse than Hoover!

Of course, you are using some criteria to judge based on your knowledge, same as historians.

 

[Darkwind]

I think the article was interesting and I think the guy nailed it.

I agree that Obama hasn't connected with people. After listening to him for the last few years, I fail to see why he is considered such a good orator. He gets stumped easily without a teleprompter, and even with it, often mispronounces words, like 'corpseman.' There are a lot of er, ah , ehs....... and so forth. In his campaign, he came off sounding like a preacher and demanded attention. He gave the usual promises and his supporters anticipated that he'd be delivering the sun and moon. They're still waiting.

He's divisive and I, for one, have felt more like a target than someone the president is addressing. I'm an enemy for wanting secure borders. I'm a racist for disagreeing with Obama's policies, particularly the oppressive health care reform. I'm greedy for wanting to keep enough of my money to send my own children to college. It's okay that I can pay hefty taxes for others to benefit, but don't have enough left for my own. And I don't qualify for giverment help. Between a rock and a hard place.

Obama comes off as an arrogant elistist. He seems to fancy himself as the greatest president ever, surpassing Reagan, Lincoln and JFK. In reality, as the article points out, he will be in the same category as Jimmy Carter.

He'll go down in history as the most divisive and least experienced CIC we've ever had.

And those are his good points!

 

[MuadDib]

Most historians think that Obama inherited a bushian mess of monumental proportions and has not shown the almost superhuman ability necessary to cope with it.

The Obama didn't "inherit" it, he asked for it, and has failed to even demonstrate a minimal level of competence in fixing it.

 

[francoHFW]

Sure, dupes. LOL!