Papageorgio
The Ultimate Winner
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- #21
So we simply no longer exist?
Zone1 What Comes After Death?
- Thread starter Papageorgio
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- Sep 16, 2012
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In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that our spirits are the literal offspring of God the Father.
Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we alive, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
As spirit children of the Father, we looked forward to coming to this earth and taking on a body of flesh and bones. We were to experience good and evil and through our free will be given the opportunity to choose for ourselves whether to do good or evil. Some of God's spirit children did not like the idea of having free will and possibly never returning to live in the presence of God eternally. Lucifer, aka Satan, presented a plan to take away free will and force mankind to do good and have all mankind return to heaven. This plan was rejected by the Father because for one to truly become a good being, one must learn to choose in and of himself to be a good being. Once Lucifer's plan was rejected, he rebelled against God and sought get others to follow after his plan. This battle for over which plan we should follow was known as the War in Heaven.
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
We can see in verse 11 that those who sided with God's plan in the War in Heaven eventually overcame Satan and his angels by the blood of the lamb and their testimony. They were even subject unto death. Only those who come to this earth and take upon mortality are in need of the blood of the lamb and are subject unto death. Thus we see that it is we who are on earth that were those who were in the War in Heaven. After taking upon us mortality and eventually suffering death, our spirits are then taken to the world of spirits. It was there that Jesus went between his death and resurrection to teach the gospel to those who had died.
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
So once we are dead, our spirits go to the world of spirits and there too is the gospel preached among the dead who are spirits. A revelation given to the prophet Joseph F. Smith was received which spoke of these things, see Doctrine and Covenants 138. In the world of spirits we await our resurrection and judgement. After our judgement and resurrection, we are to be sent to one of four places:
The Celestial Kingdom where God resides.
The Terrestrial Kingdom
The Telestial Kingdom
Outer Darkness where Satan and his angels will reside
This information was also received by revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 76.
Eventually our earth will become part of the Celestial kingdom of Heaven and we will live upon it if we are saved into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we alive, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
As spirit children of the Father, we looked forward to coming to this earth and taking on a body of flesh and bones. We were to experience good and evil and through our free will be given the opportunity to choose for ourselves whether to do good or evil. Some of God's spirit children did not like the idea of having free will and possibly never returning to live in the presence of God eternally. Lucifer, aka Satan, presented a plan to take away free will and force mankind to do good and have all mankind return to heaven. This plan was rejected by the Father because for one to truly become a good being, one must learn to choose in and of himself to be a good being. Once Lucifer's plan was rejected, he rebelled against God and sought get others to follow after his plan. This battle for over which plan we should follow was known as the War in Heaven.
Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
We can see in verse 11 that those who sided with God's plan in the War in Heaven eventually overcame Satan and his angels by the blood of the lamb and their testimony. They were even subject unto death. Only those who come to this earth and take upon mortality are in need of the blood of the lamb and are subject unto death. Thus we see that it is we who are on earth that were those who were in the War in Heaven. After taking upon us mortality and eventually suffering death, our spirits are then taken to the world of spirits. It was there that Jesus went between his death and resurrection to teach the gospel to those who had died.
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 4:6
6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
So once we are dead, our spirits go to the world of spirits and there too is the gospel preached among the dead who are spirits. A revelation given to the prophet Joseph F. Smith was received which spoke of these things, see Doctrine and Covenants 138. In the world of spirits we await our resurrection and judgement. After our judgement and resurrection, we are to be sent to one of four places:
The Celestial Kingdom where God resides.
The Terrestrial Kingdom
The Telestial Kingdom
Outer Darkness where Satan and his angels will reside
This information was also received by revelation to the prophet Joseph Smith in Doctrine and Covenants 76.
Eventually our earth will become part of the Celestial kingdom of Heaven and we will live upon it if we are saved into the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Last edited:
BreezeWood
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proof is in the pudding ...
evolution, once life began on planet earth its not a new one every time but - the same one from the one that expired passed to the next.
not religion but perhaps an offspring would be the surefire way to keep in the loop - too bad for crowd control.
both physiology and its spiritual content are metaphysical phenomena not native to planet earth - if not now eventually a spirit without physiology may emerge or separate itself from the physiology before it expires ... where there is a will there is a way.
- hope to be there when the physiology perishes to know what happens ...
evolution, once life began on planet earth its not a new one every time but - the same one from the one that expired passed to the next.
not religion but perhaps an offspring would be the surefire way to keep in the loop - too bad for crowd control.
both physiology and its spiritual content are metaphysical phenomena not native to planet earth - if not now eventually a spirit without physiology may emerge or separate itself from the physiology before it expires ... where there is a will there is a way.
- hope to be there when the physiology perishes to know what happens ...
Woodznutz
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Jesus shed his old body when he ascended. He returned in a glorified body.
Rumpole
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- Mar 20, 2023
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Well, Papageorgio, it has come to my attention that the concept of reincarnation holds a certain fascination, wherein one returns to this mortal coil time and again until the attainment of a nebulous state of enlightenment. A notion, I daresay, embraced by the venerable sages of the East in days of yore.
It seems that amongst these ancient scholars, a consensus has been reached, despite their varied philosophical leanings. This singular point of agreement, I must admit, does pique my curiosity. As for the nature of this elusive 'enlightenment,' I cannot help but ponder whether it might be a distant cousin to that celestial abode espoused by our Christian brethren.
However, I must confess that these musings are mere conjecture, a humble attempt to grapple with the mysteries that lie beyond our earthly realm. So, let us raise a glass of our finest libation to the pursuit of wisdom, whether it be in the hallowed halls of your favorite public house or the enigmatic teachings of Eastern philosophy or your local Church or Temple (I don't mean to offend anyone, but it's all the same to me, as 'Zen' is in the heart and soul, so it matters not, according to the teaching, where one is standing).
Cheers,
Rumpole
Likkmee
Gold Member
My memory falters but, apparently, I was a damn strong swimmer !What happened to you before you were born, before you were conceived?
BreezeWood
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My memory falters but, apparently, I was a damn strong swimmer !
- and new what to do when you got there ... breaking and entering, and probably closing the door behind yourself. typical, self centered thinking only of yourself - soon to become a desert evangelical.
... maybe, heaven might not be all its cracked up to be.
Carl in Michigan
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Two Canadians one who lives a police state, and one who despises it.
BreezeWood
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only that the metaphysical physiology dissolves into the atmosphere, no one knows what is the fate of the spiritual content that was unique to that particular being.
neither having been native to planet earth, arriving from the universe.
Blues Man
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There is no spritual content.
What you call "spirit" is nothing but a function of the brain. When the brain dies we die
Woodznutz
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Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Blues Man
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Religious dogma isn't science or even reality.
- Sep 16, 2012
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This is just your opinion, and the opinion of a great many folks, though, it "isn't science or even reality," either. Please do not delude yourself.
The problem of consciousness, is still being worked on and debated.
The idea that everything from spoons to stones is conscious is gaining academic credibility
Consciousness permeates reality. Rather than being just a unique feature of human subjective experience, it’s the foundation of the universe, present in every particle and all physical matter.
Blues Man
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This is just your opinion, and the opinion of a great many folks, though, it "isn't science or even reality," either. Please do not delude yourself.
The problem of consciousness, is still being worked on and debated.
The idea that everything from spoons to stones is conscious is gaining academic credibility
Consciousness permeates reality. Rather than being just a unique feature of human subjective experience, it’s the foundation of the universe, present in every particle and all physical matter.qz.com
Well when you can show me the scientific proof that there is some god given "spirit" you let me know.
Right now all you have is a god of the gaps explanation.
- Sep 16, 2012
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It is a bit more complicated that all that IMO. I think you might benefit taking time, to actually read that article I posted. Maybe you are too invested in your world view?
Blues Man
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It is a bit more complicated that all that IMO. I think you might benefit taking time, to actually read that article I posted. Maybe you are too invested in your world view?
I've seen that video before.
But what I usually get from the religious people is that if we can't explain it then it must have been done by a god.
What not too many people seem to think is that maybe we do not understand some things because we are incapable of understanding them. We do not have the capacity for the type of thought that will explain them.
My dog no matter how smart I think she is will never understand algebra. My brain and her brain are basically made up of the same stuff and operate in the same way.
Now if I can know there are limitations to the intellect of a dog then I must also conclude that there are limitations on what the human mind can comprehend as well.
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