CDZ What are the Differences Between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?

[Indeependent]

Democratic Socialism allows you to make money before taking it away. Marxism prevents you from making money in the first place.

The Communist Phase of Marx's Theory.
We are currently in the Corporate Fascist Capitalistic (Royalty or MNCs) phase of Marx's Theory.
If we are lucky, Trump will put us back into the Representative Republic Capitalistic phase of Marx's Theory.

I fear that that is just fantasy thinking or as Marx would likely say a manifestation of your alienation.

You are of the opinion that MNCs have little or no impact on Legislation?

 

[JimBowie1958]

Glad you are back.

The key concept to Marx's political theory is "the means of production," the dominant technology whereby a society creates its wealth. Marx wrote when wind, water and muscle energy was rapidly being replaced by steam generated by burning coal.

We've gone through several evolutionary energy cycles since Marx's day but his description of the dynamic is as valid now as it was back then. In a nutshell:

technological innovation -> new sources of wealth -> change in social structure -> redistribution of political power

But in advances economies there is no dominant technology that become so capitalized that there are no wage incentives any more. There are other technologies that create other industries and so instead of a single oak, you have a garden of many species and varieties. I still think Marx had some valid insights, but I think economics has moved way past 19th century economic determinism. The social and philisophical aspects of Marxes ideology is the poison here in terms of getting the American people to relax and re-evaluate Democratic Socialism.

Of course, these notions are beyond the grasp of folks who think of Karl Marx as the father of all gun grabbers.

Well, he is the father of all Gun Grabbers in the modern age, yeah. Cant speak of anywhere else, but Hitler, Stalin, Mao, all the big gun grabbers of our time have been directly influenced by Marx's social constructs such as giving the government complete power to carry out the Workers Revolution. That mandates the complete removal of all guns from the hands of the civilian population so that the people cannot resist the government.

It is what it is.

 

[JimBowie1958]

You are of the opinion that MNCs have little or no impact on Legislation?

Today I think they now have complete control over the legislative process.

My comment was about what you said regarding Trump.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So, can we accommodate Democratic Socialism today, in a practical way, without the encrusted vestiges of ideological Marxism being conceded as well? Can we separate the Democratic Socialism from the Hate-Western-Civilization-First cultural Marxism?

 

[JimBowie1958]

What are the more repulsive features of Democratic Socialism? Excessive government control of the people's activities of all aspects of their lives aside from business?

How much of the conservation movement has been hijacked by Democratic Socialists and Marxists?

A friend of mine had kids cutting across the corner of his yard, leaving a 30 foot trail across the right half of his front yard. So he hires a contractor to build a fence to keep the kids from doing that. The contractor tells him that he cant build the fence without easement permits from the state of Maryland.

So my friend applies for the easement permit, and got a 'No!' from the state. He was certain it had to be an error, so he took a day off from work to look up the clerck that screwed up and get him to straight the whole thing out.

He finds the clerk at the county courthouse and the clerk tells him that no, the refusal was not a mistake. In the opinion of the state of Maryland preventing kids from cutting across your lawn is insufficient reason to build a fence. My friend was shocked when he heard this and has since moved out of that state.

I used to live in Maryland when it was a mostly clean and beautiful state, a poster child of how a helpful state government could make our lives better, but things were getting stupid. We had Section 8 families being put by the government into our neighborhood and of course a few of them started selling drugs in the kids play ground. We stopped that with neighborhood watch patrols, hired security and frequent calls to the police. There was still one townhouse that had a gang that kept watch with yuong men sitting in the windows, lol. They always gave me hateful stares and I just hated them right back.

But our neighborhood had lost its feeling of being a secure nice place to live, thanks to the state of Maryland, and so we decided to move out. Several other neighbors had done so already and the wave of the 2004 real estate bubble had hit our area and we sold for more than twice the original value after only ten years.

I think these two events and others like them are what people think of when they hear the phrase Democratic Socialism and they fear it. Do we have to have a micromanaging government in order to have Democratic Socialism? Do we have to have a government that implements policies without sensitivity to the needs and interests of the people they affect?

 

[regent]

Can anyone name a country that has practiced Marxist communism?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"What are the Differences Between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?"

One can't expect 'clean debate' when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy and is offered in bad faith.

 

[waltky]

What are the Differences Between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?

Hitler was a Democratic Socialist...

... Lenin was a Leninist...

... Stalin was a Communist.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Can anyone name a country that has practiced Marxist communism?

No one ever practices an ideology of any kind 100% pure.

Can anyone name a country that has practiced 100% Adam Smith capitalism?

No certainly Lenin thought he was implementing Marxism as best could be done, but he adapted it to the culture and economy of Russia, in his view. As did Stalin. Mao implemented a Chinese Marxism adapted to their culture and people, or so he claimed. Who are we who sit in chairs safely behind computer screens to judge these men who put their necks on the line for bringing about the Workers Paradise?

The only place pure Marxism exists is in the minds of academics and drug addicts.

 

[JimBowie1958]

What are the Differences Between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?

Hitler was a Democratic Socialist...

... Lenin was a Leninist...

... Stalin was a Communist.

Hitlers ideology was an outgrowth of Mussolini's fascism, which in turn was an outgrowth of communist ideology.

I dont think any Democratic Socialists accepted Hitlers Reich as a product of their ideas after 1936 to 1939 prior to the war when his full scope of policies came out.

 

[JimBowie1958]

"What are the Differences Between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?"

One can't expect 'clean debate' when the thread premise fails as a loaded question fallacy and is offered in bad faith.

There is nothing loaded about asking for differences between Democratic Socialism and Marxism, dude.

If you would deign to speak to us mere mortals and explain how your omniscience sees how the question is loaded that would help.

roflmao

 

[LoneLaugher]

Democratic Socialism allows you to make money before taking it away. Marxism prevents you from making money in the first place.

You know, when 60% of Americans start to vote for Socialist candidates instead of open borders free trading Globaloney Republicans that sort of thing isnt going to help anyone.

For Americans to do well we have to figure out what about socialism is compatible and what is not and why, adopt what is compatible with American culture and oppose the rest.

The problem is that Republicans are very, very good at making people afraid. Fear is their bread and butter. And the moment you say 'socialism', they compare it to Nazis.

Universal healthcare? Nazis.

Paid maternity leave? Nazis.

Or some equally hysteric equivalent.

That old GOP corporate crony rhetoric is not going to work for many more years as jobs dry up.

There are many factions of the GOP and the current reigning faction is coming to an end or else they will still die and take the GOP with them.

You use the term "faction". Are you clear as to what a faction is?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You use the term "faction". Are you clear as to what a faction is?

Of course I do, do you?

I am sure that there is some kind of Marxist definition peculiar to that ideological system as redefining common words for their spin narrative is something they excel at.

Care to share it?

 

[LoneLaugher]

You use the term "faction". Are you clear as to what a faction is?

Of course I do, do you?

I am sure that there is some kind of Marxist definition peculiar to that ideological system as redefining common words for their spin narrative is something they excel at.

Care to share it?

It isn't simply a caucus or a group of like minded people, which is what you have suggested here.

James Madison wrote at length about factions.......and the word has been fucking twisted and redefined by people like you.

Check out what Madison said. And then stop misusing the word.

Thanks.

 

[JimBowie1958]

It isn't simply a caucus or a group of like minded people, which is what you have suggested here.

James Madison wrote at length about factions.......and the word has been fucking twisted and redefined by people like you.

Check out what Madison said. And then stop misusing the word.

Thanks.

I merely use the dictionary definition, but alas, I am not as educated as you to know the secret handshake definitions that only the elites like yourself parley-voo in.

fac·tion 1
(făk′shən)
n.
1. A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group.

Well, OH MY GAWD! I WAS RIGHT! I used the word correctly, Dr Know-it-all.

Why dont you assplain now where the dictionary is wrong?

 

[LoneLaugher]

It isn't simply a caucus or a group of like minded people, which is what you have suggested here.

James Madison wrote at length about factions.......and the word has been fucking twisted and redefined by people like you.

Check out what Madison said. And then stop misusing the word.

Thanks.

I merely use the dictionary definition, but alas, I am not as educated as you to know the secret handshake definitions that only the elites like yourself parley-voo in.

fac·tion 1
(făk′shən)
n.
1. A group of persons forming a cohesive, usually contentious minority within a larger group.

Well, OH MY GAWD! I WAS RIGHT! I used the word correctly, Dr Know-it-all.

Why dont you assplain now where the dictionary is wrong?

Nope. It refers to special interest groups........influencing government to the detriment of the nation. The dictionary definition isn't historically accurate.

You fancy yourself to be a historian........pretentious as all hell.....yet you are lacking the background needed to discuss the subjects that you claim to be interested in.

Turn it down a notch.

And......Democratic Socialism in America has nothing to do with your friends local government regulating the placement of property boundaries. That you would introduce that story as evidence in this "lofty" discussion of socioeconomic trends........is lame and insulting.

Try harder.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Nope. It refers to special interest groups........influencing government to the detriment of the nation. The dictionary definition isn't historically accurate.

Nonsense. The dictionary reflects common usage and I use it commonly. Were I intereseted in reflecting historical meanings of words I wouldnt be posting that sort of very narrow subject matter here.

You fancy yourself to be a historian........pretentious as all hell.....yet you are lacking the background needed to discuss the subjects that you claim to be interested in.

Turn it down a notch.

I am an amateur historian, and have read more on the topic than the average person, but that is all. I have no pretenses about it, I simply enjoy reading the material and discussing it. That I dont measure up to your standards is a given as you are an ideologue and so any deviation from your narrow version of what the Truth is disqualifies me immediately and then you can pile on all the broiler plate text you want to add relish to you assessment.

But as I have exactly zero respect for your ideological glasses nor your opinion about much of anything, including your assessment of my grasp of what being an historian involves you waste your words in that regard. Discussing the topic with you would be like explaining why I am not a Communist to a John Bircher when he sees I refuse to make a broad condemnation of anything touching on socialism. I have no use for either waste of my time.

And......Democratic Socialism in America has nothing to do with your friends local government regulating the placement of property boundaries. That you would introduce that story as evidence in this "lofty" discussion of socioeconomic trends........is lame and insulting.

Try harder.

lol, it might be lame and insulting if you had actually read what I wrote. My friend owned the property, but the state retained easement rights on his property. That you cannot fathom why this might be seen as related to some of the American problems with a strong central state and how that involves itself in any discussion of socialism is well....special.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the name

 

[JimBowie1958]

the name

That is the sole difference between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?

Is this a joke?

I have never been able to understand why conservatives think they achieve something by making such statements. That is like saying the only difference between Christianity and Islam is the name. Really?

I dont see the humor or use for such willful ignorance of useful and complex concepts.

 

[jon_berzerk]

the name

That is the sole difference between Democratic Socialism and Marxism?

Is this a joke?

I have never been able to understand why conservatives think they achieve something by making such statements. That is like saying the only difference between Christianity and Islam is the name. Really?

I dont see the humor or use for such willful ignorance of useful and complex concepts.

that is not true

look who the communist party endorses during elections