We're Lowering Your Wages

[sealybobo]

No argument from me on that one.



I'm not talking about what is arbitrary now. You arguing that pay shoudl be based on something other than the value of labor. What you have been suggesting is that all companies should pay enough for people to live. If you can't see the can of worms that opens than there is no helping you. THAT is what I am calling arbitrary. Someone government agency mandating to companies some figure they come up with they deem enough for someone to live on.

How specifically did Bush cut your pay by 10k?



I would opt for a much simpler tax code.

Look into the step back people took under Bushanomics. It's probably not $15K, but I probably make $15K less now than I did in the 90's.

If you include inflation.

 

[Bern80]

Look into the step back people took under Bushanomics. It's probably not $15K, but I probably make $15K less now than I did in the 90's.

If you include inflation.

I'm not arguing that it happened. I'm asking why it happened. Why is your reduction in pay directly attributable to Bush?

 

[RodISHI]

I wish I wrote everything down that happened from 2000-2006. I could have written a book. I would publish it as a history book. Every bill that the GOP/Tom Delay congress passed. Who voted for and against.

I think you would find out the Democrats tried to stop the GOP from pushing their radical agenda. I think you would see Democrats warned the GOP that this would happen.

When I told conservatives that I heard this shit was going on, they asked me where I heard it. When I said NPR, they said, "oh, that LIBERAL radio station, and blew me off like my news wasn't credible.

Well now what? Now they want to say Bush tried to stop this from happening? Is anyone buying that? Sure, he may have made a token speech to cover his ass, but let's be real.

Just like the immigration bill they passed in 2006. Did that fix the problem? No, but it got the millions that were calling Congress complaining to stop calling. It also cost us taxpayers billions of dollars. But did it fix the problem? Of course not.

Give every boss hiring illegals a year in jail, no if ands or buts and you will see the illegal employer problem go away tomorrow.

And stop letting manufacturers go elsewhere to manufacture and ship the shit back here to sell it.

Actually, that problem will work itself out. It actually is working itself out right now. No one here in America can afford anything anymore, so no need to import anything to America, because we aint buying shit!!!

And now they can drop their prices even more because the demand is in the crapper. Let's see what kind of profits these corporations will make when we are in a recession, that they caused.

I agree corporate raiders, hired politicians, etc... caused it. Yet most of the people went along with it.

I believe you. I think the problem is when you bring forth a problem it is an automatic deny thingy that many people go into. They "circle the wagons" to protect one another.



In a portion of my case I presented evidence to the Iowa supreme court that clearly showed many of the documents created by Wells Fargo were fabricated by employees (?) of Wells Fargo. It demonstrated how Wells Fargo used fabricated documents to short my SBA loan funds. Nevertheless, the Iowa Judiciary ruled that my Resistance To Summary Judgment was untimely to facilitate the lower court's ruling. At the time the Resistance was filed, in the Answer of Robex, the lawyer representing me did not object to Wells Fargo having a security interest. He stated that, "Defendant makes no claim to property properly identified." In the final court ruling the Iowa supreme court took the word "properly" from that initial resistance out of their ruling. They also ignored the banker's admittance that the bank created the documents unilaterally without my approval and that my husband's equipment was not a part of the loan. The testimony by the banker's was that they could not say if I was deficient in any of my payments. The loan was indeed modified however, this modification was required by the bank and was not requested by me. The bank requested a modification to the original loan only after SBA representative Jackie Blanchard notified Wells Fargo via email that the bank had failed "to properly perfect a security interest." Furthermore, Blanchard stated in the email that the allotted time for the SBA loan guaranty "had expired." Part of the problem stemmed from the fact that Wells Fargo did not have any support documents which properly identified the collateral. The UCC1 filing submitted to the court consisted of a page that claimed real property and anything on that property. Even though I did not own the physical real property in the page that they added to a UCC1 filing. Even the banker testified that the page to the UCC1 was added to after the bank obtain my signature. Christensen the judge said in his ruling that robex submitted this UCC1 filing to the bank. The ruling was absolutely backwards to even the banker's testimony. That is unless a bank can assume anothers identity. Which they obviously did when they started creating documents that I did not approve of or have any knowledge to until these documents were presented to the court.


Worse than that the courts here let Wells Fargo take control of and dismissed a lawsuit against the manufacturers that destroyed a portion of my mining equipment when I was filling my first road contract. My first piece of equipment came from the manufacturer designed to fail. Just last year we discovered that Christensen a CEO for Well fargo also happened to own a company called Raven that provided the internal parts to that "designed to fail" machine from Kolman. These same Christensen's also happen to own a lot of pig farms, some of them not to far from where our home is.

I have been called a terrorist here, threaten with arrest for filing a civil complaint when an eighty thousand dollar plus dozer was stolen from me, shot at and whatever else you can consider. Last I heard from a neighbor that was new to the neighborhood was that I am a "big drug dealer and a very bad person." Just so happens that one who claimed that also has made an erroneous quit claim filing on a portion of our land. Heck that erroneous filing may work from the county tax rolls it does appear that they now own where our land used to be. It also appears that Wells Fargo bought the mortgages of these lovely neighbor's who have laid claimed to our land. So I suppose in the end it all works out to justice. Do you know of anyone who would be interested in buying a land deed that has a land Patent #911? I may be interested in selling it. It has all mining and minerals rights of any kind listed in the patent and it was patented "forever" in 1944.

I could go on and on trying to put in the details but truthfully I really do not think anyone wants to hear it.

 

[RodISHI]

How can you not see the problems it would cause for the economy to pay people what someone decides is enough to live on vs. the market value of the job? it is blatanlty obvious none of you have thought about what would happen if we actually did something that asanine.

I have considered this. You simply cannot abuse people no matter what your excuse may be. Through all the education you or anyone else may have you cannot rule over people's heart with a notion that running a business is merely about spinning a profit. It is obvious and apparent by the situation we are in today. You may wish for corporations such as Sears and all others to be able to pay people less than minimum wage and get away with it by skirting the laws but I do not and will not support that policy. in fact if I have my way I will have the people revolt and then I can surely be called a terrorist. I won't be asking them to bomb anyone or anything like that but I will tell them every chance I get, "Tell the bank and those who represent such people. Go **** yourselves." I know that does not sound very lady like an all but it is what everyone needs to do at this point who believes the lie that they must live like slaves to corporations, their banks and their insurance companies.

Such a proposal really enters into the realm of discussion about what the fundamental purpose of a business is. It also has some inherently flawed asumptions. Apparently people like you and bobo believe it is a business purpose to provide for your standard of living. it isn't. That is YOUR purpose in getting a job. A businesses purpose is to make money. To that end they hire people to accomplish that and they owe nothing more than what is stated in the contract YOU agreed to when you took the job.

Not at the expense of making everyone slaves to the system. People do not have to accept bondage.

This line of thinking rests on one major presumption. That all or the majority of business owners are back stabbing, greedy, do anything for a buck people. If that were the case, if we took it as a given that the owners of companies were gonna shaft and treat their employees like dirt you might have the makings of an argument. But you are like most who think what is reported on network television about a select few CEOs is what constitutes reality. I worked for a company that had to make the decision whether to move part of its operation to Mexico and I work for a company now that, like most, is trying to make similarily difficult decisions. These decisions aren't being made to line CEOs pockets for the most part. They are being made so that the entire business can continue to operate and keep the jobs that do stay in the U.S.[/QOUTE]


What right do corporate CEO's and those in management positions have to expect the people to live like slaves and like it? this is not Mexico it is America. If you do in fact work for one of these companies that has taken the food out of the mouths of American babes then you must be part of the problem not a part of the solution.

Why does America have the right to force it's economic rules on other countries?

It is called a Republic. Either we are willing to all stand together or we shall all damn sure fall together. I took the first step. if I can live without electricity and water for over two years so can everyone else. It is now is everyone elses turn at absolute poverty while fighting a beast that could care less how you live or even if you are able to live.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm not arguing that it happened. I'm asking why it happened. Why is your reduction in pay directly attributable to Bush?

The GOP for 8 years now have been passing laws/tax breaks for companies that go overseas.

The GOP defends cheap labor. Which party is the one that constantly says, "Jobs American's won't do"?

That would be the GOP.

Ok, you still following?

Small Business', until Bush even fucked up their lives, were mostly Republicans. Not all, but pretty much, Small business owners tend to be GOP. So, who's been benefitting from hiring illegals? Small Business'/Republicans.

You'll want to blame bleeding heart liberals, but they weren't in power for the last 8 years. They passed no laws. The GOP did.

 

[Neubarth]

What is wrong with people? Why are we arguing in favor of lower wages? Are we jealous that people working for the Big 3 make $30 hr? Don’t we realize that our wages are where they are because the Unions brought them up? ....

Now is not the time to get tight with the dollar, .... All of our jobs are tied to the Big 3, whether we know it or not.

Why are we allowing Corporate America to send jobs overseas and ship the products back to sell to us?

This is an assault on the middle class, and most of you don’t even know it yet.

Bobo, you simply do not have a clue about the economy, do you? When the costs of production (especially labor) goes too high in this country, then for a business to survive, it has to produce product where the costs of production are lower. Any low IQ twit can understand that. If we want to build cars that can compete we have to lower costs of production. If we don't, then people won't buy our high priced cars. It is time to bust the UAW before the UAW busts us. The Big 3 need to go into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy so that a judge can throw out the labor agreements that make our cars so damned expensive. Once we throw out those high priced contracts at an average of three times what manual loborers should be making, we can build economical cars that are cost friendly to the consumer. If we don't, the auto industry will file for the "OTHER" bankruptcy and disappear from America. It may reappear in Mexico. Blame the UAW. They are criminals.

 

[RodISHI]

I remember back in 1987 when I was what you could call unblacklisted. the thing that irritated me the most about the whole situation was the way the "preferred state contractor" only paid people $2.70 an hour. Here I had thought that minimum wage was $3.45 at the time. $3.45 an hour was not enough to feed a family on but sure beat the heck out of $2.70 an hour and it was better than welfare too. Most people had no idea that any company could get away with paying less than minimum wage until I told everyone that would listen. one state administrator told me that the state had no control over what the "preferred contractor paid their employees." I told her in fact the state was endorsing these slave wages when time and time again the state gave preferance to this contractor.

In the long term I ended up with a lot of DOT contracts. I paid my people $8.00 an hour. I just assumed if I was not willing to work for less than $8.00 an hour why would anyone else? It did not hurt my business as the business did grow and thrive until I got sick of the politics and I did not feel like I could make a profit and continue to do justice to my employees or myself. With my children grown and out on there own we decided who needs the headaches anymore.

During that ten year stint the profit margin for my company went down due to the inflated insurance rates I had to pay for liability. Even though my insurance company did not have to pay any claims for my company. The insurance companies basically stole the raises that my employees should have recieved. It was in 1995 that i called it quits for my first company people. The minimum wage is still not over $8.00 an hour and the Sears Investment Group and others pay even less than minimum wage.

Rule of thumb. Never ask someone else to do something you would not be willing to do yourself.

 

[sealybobo]

I agree corporate raiders, hired politicians, etc... caused it. Yet most of the people went along with it.

I believe you. I think the problem is when you bring forth a problem it is an automatic deny thingy that many people go into. They "circle the wagons" to protect one another.



In a portion of my case I presented evidence to the Iowa supreme court that clearly showed many of the documents created by Wells Fargo were fabricated by employees (?) of Wells Fargo. It demonstrated how Wells Fargo used fabricated documents to short my SBA loan funds. Nevertheless, the Iowa Judiciary ruled that my Resistance To Summary Judgment was untimely to facilitate the lower court's ruling. At the time the Resistance was filed, in the Answer of Robex, the lawyer representing me did not object to Wells Fargo having a security interest. He stated that, "Defendant makes no claim to property properly identified." In the final court ruling the Iowa supreme court took the word "properly" from that initial resistance out of their ruling. They also ignored the banker's admittance that the bank created the documents unilaterally without my approval and that my husband's equipment was not a part of the loan. The testimony by the banker's was that they could not say if I was deficient in any of my payments. The loan was indeed modified however, this modification was required by the bank and was not requested by me. The bank requested a modification to the original loan only after SBA representative Jackie Blanchard notified Wells Fargo via email that the bank had failed "to properly perfect a security interest." Furthermore, Blanchard stated in the email that the allotted time for the SBA loan guaranty "had expired." Part of the problem stemmed from the fact that Wells Fargo did not have any support documents which properly identified the collateral. The UCC1 filing submitted to the court consisted of a page that claimed real property and anything on that property. Even though I did not own the physical real property in the page that they added to a UCC1 filing. Even the banker testified that the page to the UCC1 was added to after the bank obtain my signature. Christensen the judge said in his ruling that robex submitted this UCC1 filing to the bank. The ruling was absolutely backwards to even the banker's testimony. That is unless a bank can assume anothers identity. Which they obviously did when they started creating documents that I did not approve of or have any knowledge to until these documents were presented to the court.


Worse than that the courts here let Wells Fargo take control of and dismissed a lawsuit against the manufacturers that destroyed a portion of my mining equipment when I was filling my first road contract. My first piece of equipment came from the manufacturer designed to fail. Just last year we discovered that Christensen a CEO for Well fargo also happened to own a company called Raven that provided the internal parts to that "designed to fail" machine from Kolman. These same Christensen's also happen to own a lot of pig farms, some of them not to far from where our home is.

I have been called a terrorist here, threaten with arrest for filing a civil complaint when an eighty thousand dollar plus dozer was stolen from me, shot at and whatever else you can consider. Last I heard from a neighbor that was new to the neighborhood was that I am a "big drug dealer and a very bad person." Just so happens that one who claimed that also has made an erroneous quit claim filing on a portion of our land. Heck that erroneous filing may work from the county tax rolls it does appear that they now own where our land used to be. It also appears that Wells Fargo bought the mortgages of these lovely neighbor's who have laid claimed to our land. So I suppose in the end it all works out to justice. Do you know of anyone who would be interested in buying a land deed that has a land Patent #911? I may be interested in selling it. It has all mining and minerals rights of any kind listed in the patent and it was patented "forever" in 1944.

I could go on and on trying to put in the details but truthfully I really do not think anyone wants to hear it.

Basically, you got fucked by the people that really run/own this country. You got in the way of big business.

You know about the income tax and federal reserve being unconstitutional? If any politician says that, like Ron Paul, they ruin that person's name. Ron Paul's a racist, or a loony.

It sounds like they did that to you too.

And since big business has purchased our politicians, you lose. And they have high paid lawyers who are buddies with the judges.

Sorry to hear about what happened to you. But you are right, the details go way over my head. But I get it.

 

[WillowTree]

Well, everytime I ever complained about illegal immigration and what it was doing to us the left responded with

get over it asshole,, this is a global economy.. now

or


who the ****'s gonna pick yer tomatoes????


or


you wanna pay 4 bucks for a head of lettuce..



well, you reap what ya sow libs,, you wanted those illegals here so you could get cheap tomatos and lettuces and votes.. it's still a global economy.. toyota makes the best car,, and Detroit makes shitty cars we can no longer afford.. I can't afford to replace a car every 3 years,,or put it's ass in the shop every month.. so,,,, get over it,, it you cannot compete get the hell outta the way.. life is tough but that's the way it is.. now say hello to your 30 million new neighbors.. They'll vote for you..

 

[sealybobo]

I remember back in 1987 when I was what you could call unblacklisted. the thing that irritated me the most about the whole situation was the way the "preferred state contractor" only paid people $2.70 an hour. Here I had thought that minimum wage was $3.45 at the time. $3.45 an hour was not enough to feed a family on but sure beat the heck out of $2.70 an hour and it was better than welfare too. Most people had no idea that any company could get away with paying less than minimum wage until I told everyone that would listen. one state administrator told me that the state had no control over what the "preferred contractor paid their employees." I told her in fact the state was endorsing these slave wages when time and time again the state gave preferance to this contractor.

In the long term I ended up with a lot of DOT contracts. I paid my people $8.00 an hour. I just assumed if I was not willing to work for less than $8.00 an hour why would anyone else? It did not hurt my business as the business did grow and thrive until I got sick of the politics and I did not feel like I could make a profit and continue to do justice to my employees or myself. With my children grown and out on there own we decided who needs the headaches anymore.

During that ten year stint the profit margin for my company went down due to the inflated insurance rates I had to pay for liability. Even though my insurance company did not have to pay any claims for my company. The insurance companies basically stole the raises that my employees should have recieved. It was in 1995 that i called it quits for my first company people. The minimum wage is still not over $8.00 an hour and the Sears Investment Group and others pay even less than minimum wage.

Rule of thumb. Never ask someone else to do something you would not be willing to do yourself.

That's a good point about the insurance costs. They act like that's income for us, when in fact, it's out of control and we never see a dime. So if I get sick, I go in and get treated and they say, "look, you just got $10K in treatment". Yes and no.

Yea, because our system is screwed up. Otherwise, the treatment I got should not have been $10K. So the insurance company pays the doctor and eventually they raise our premiums.

I don't have all the answers, and I don't know if you meant to, but you just made a case for universal healthcare.

 

[sealybobo]

Bobo, you simply do not have a clue about the economy, do you? When the costs of production (especially labor) goes too high in this country, then for a business to survive, it has to produce product where the costs of production are lower. Any low IQ twit can understand that. If we want to build cars that can compete we have to lower costs of production. If we don't, then people won't buy our high priced cars. It is time to bust the UAW before the UAW busts us. The Big 3 need to go into Chapter 11 Bankruptcy so that a judge can throw out the labor agreements that make our cars so damned expensive. Once we throw out those high priced contracts at an average of three times what manual loborers should be making, we can build economical cars that are cost friendly to the consumer. If we don't, the auto industry will file for the "OTHER" bankruptcy and disappear from America. It may reappear in Mexico. Blame the UAW. They are criminals.

Throw out the labor agreements? That shows you how much you care about contracts, a promise, your word, etc. Just **** my father and the other people who were promised pensions?

No, I don't have a clue what you are talking about. You may as well be Bin Ladin saying Death To America.

Compete? Compete with who? I say throw Honda and Toyota out before you let the Big 3 go bankrupt. What a treasonist traitor anti labor unpatriotic unamerican thing to say.

**** you! Oops. Sorry about that. My natural reaction to a retarded post.

First of all, why would you want the tax payers to pay those pensions and not the companies that promised them? The Big 3 aren't dead. The new government will fix it.

And if the Big 3 don't get the money, take back the god damn $750 billion from the banks and let's have a ******* revolution. I hope you know how to survive. Because your money will mean nothing!!!

The employees 30 years ago asked for a raise but the company offered pensions, because it would be a cost they wouldn't have to pay for years. Did they not see that eventually they'd have to pay them out?


My post might be all over the place because I had to go back and re-read your assinine post. You make me want to vomit. What a ******* sellout. Either that or you work down south for Honda.

Either way, you are dumb as a bag of shit.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, everytime I ever complained about illegal immigration and what it was doing to us the left responded with

get over it asshole,, this is a global economy.. now

or
who the ****'s gonna pick yer tomatoes????
or
you wanna pay 4 bucks for a head of lettuce..

well, you reap what ya sow libs,, you wanted those illegals here so you could get cheap tomatos and lettuces and votes.. it's still a global economy.. toyota makes the best car,, and Detroit makes shitty cars we can no longer afford.. I can't afford to replace a car every 3 years,,or put it's ass in the shop every month.. so,,,, get over it,, it you cannot compete get the hell outta the way.. life is tough but that's the way it is.. now say hello to your 30 million new neighbors.. They'll vote for you..

More revisionist history from a dumb ass.

It was you who for 8 years kept saying JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DO.

I've been arguing politics for 20 years. Don't you ******* tell me it was us who wanted cheap fruit.

That was the god damn GOP's montra. You are either a liar or a ******* idiot.

Either way, you just sent me home for the weekend pissed off.

And you aren't even in charge anymore. Go **** yourself this weekend. I hate to wish bad on others but you need to hit rock bottom hard and fast.

But i suspect you can afford to be suck a dumb cock sucker because you have a safety net.

Two words. DUMB *****! Have a great weekend. Try to get some of that patriotism back that you had when we were going to war. I suspect you put party over country though, so your partiotism was fake as ****!!!!

Seriously, you are a dumb *****.

 

[RodISHI]

Basically, you got fucked by the people that really run/own this country. You got in the way of big business.

You know about the income tax and federal reserve being unconstitutional? If any politician says that, like Ron Paul, they ruin that person's name. Ron Paul's a racist, or a loony.

It sounds like they did that to you too.

And since big business has purchased our politicians, you lose. And they have high paid lawyers who are buddies with the judges.

Sorry to hear about what happened to you. But you are right, the details go way over my head. But I get it.

Well I am still here and so it is not actually over yet. Ron Paul is still out there so it is not over yet.

 

[sealybobo]

How come conservatives were willing to be patriotic and spend a trillion dollars in Iraq to defend America, but they won't defend/protect an American instutution like GM that is vital to our national security?

I guess Bush has to sell it to them.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, everytime I ever complained about illegal immigration and what it was doing to us the left responded with

get over it asshole,, this is a global economy.. now

or

who the ****'s gonna pick yer tomatoes????


or

you wanna pay 4 bucks for a head of lettuce..

well, you reap what ya sow libs,, you wanted those illegals here so you could get cheap tomatos and lettuces and votes.. it's still a global economy.. toyota makes the best car,, and Detroit makes shitty cars we can no longer afford.. I can't afford to replace a car every 3 years,,or put it's ass in the shop every month.. so,,,, get over it,, it you cannot compete get the hell outta the way.. life is tough but that's the way it is.. now say hello to your 30 million new neighbors.. They'll vote for you..

It was the Republicans that fought for Job Banks.

 

[Bern80]

I have considered this. You simply cannot abuse people no matter what your excuse may be. Through all the education you or anyone else may have you cannot rule over people's heart with a notion that running a business is merely about spinning a profit. It is obvious and apparent by the situation we are in today. You may wish for corporations such as Sears and all others to be able to pay people less than minimum wage and get away with it by skirting the laws but I do not and will not support that policy. in fact if I have my way I will have the people revolt and then I can surely be called a terrorist. I won't be asking them to bomb anyone or anything like that but I will tell them every chance I get, "Tell the bank and those who represent such people. Go **** yourselves." I know that does not sound very lady like an all but it is what everyone needs to do at this point who believes the lie that they must live like slaves to corporations, their banks and their insurance companies.

I seriously doubt you have considered it. DO consider the following: What happens when a companies operating costs increase?

I don't wish for companies to pay less than minimum wage or treat their labor force as entirely expendable. It is in a companies best interest from a management standpoint to keep their employees happy. At the same time it would hurt them to be bending over backwards at an employees every demand.

Not at the expense of making everyone slaves to the system. People do not have to accept bondage.

Now your just being dramatic. You really believe slave labor is what is going on with a majority of Americans? Does McDonalds pay well? No. But in your eyes I guess they should be paying $50k a year to support a family right? How does that $15 McDonalds burger taste now?

What right do corporate CEO's and those in management positions have to expect the people to live like slaves and like it? this is not Mexico it is America. If you do in fact work for one of these companies that has taken the food out of the mouths of American babes then you must be part of the problem not a part of the solution.

I asked to address your presumption. Instead you went on as if this whole slave B.S. is the norm or even real. NO COMPANY OWES YOU THE FOOD ON YOUR PLATE. They owe what is the contract you signed. If you don't like why the **** did you start working for them?

Personally i believe your singular admittedly horrible experience is distorting your perception of the way things really are.

 

[RodISHI]

How come conservatives were willing to be patriotic and spend a trillion dollars in Iraq to defend America, but they won't defend/protect an American instutution like GM that is vital to our national security?

I guess Bush has to sell it to them.

GM pickups suck.

If the management is not willing to take drastic measures themselves why would the people want to bail them out?

I have been told bankruptcy does not really hurt a thing. Heck if it was supposed to be good for me why not GM, Ford and Chrysler?

 

[WillowTree]

More revisionist history from a dumb ass.

It was you who for 8 years kept saying JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DO.

I've been arguing politics for 20 years. Don't you ******* tell me it was us who wanted cheap fruit.

That was the god damn GOP's montra. You are either a liar or a ******* idiot.

Either way, you just sent me home for the weekend pissed off.

And you aren't even in charge anymore. Go **** yourself this weekend. I hate to wish bad on others but you need to hit rock bottom hard and fast.

But i suspect you can afford to be suck a dumb cock sucker because you have a safety net.

Two words. DUMB *****! Have a great weekend. Try to get some of that patriotism back that you had when we were going to war. I suspect you put party over country though, so your partiotism was fake as ****!!!!

Seriously, you are a dumb *****.

"God Bless America"???? "No No NO God Damn America."

 

[WillowTree]

Sealybobos chickens have come home to roost.

 

[Gem]

I guess I'm just confused as to why some people here seem to think that a company owes its employees a salary according to what the employees thinks is a living wage.