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Proof
of what, that you've completely lost it?
The guy in that other thread said, "show me where anyone ever said that $30 hr was too much for labor. SHOW ME!!! He said.
So I looked back and found this thread. Not for your eyes Del.
of what, that you've completely lost it?
The guy in that other thread said, "show me where anyone ever said that $30 hr was too much for labor. SHOW ME!!! He said.
So I looked back and found this thread. Not for your eyes Del.
no, what he said was show me where someone said that $35/hr was too much for a line worker but $20million for a CEO was fine. i think you need to keep looking, bud.
The guy in that other thread said, "show me where anyone ever said that $30 hr was too much for labor. SHOW ME!!! He said.
So I looked back and found this thread. Not for your eyes Del.
no, what he said was show me where someone said that $35/hr was too much for a line worker but $20million for a CEO was fine. i think you need to keep looking, bud.
No, ravi backed me up. I'm good.
We are all individuals and we all have our own certain circumstances that have lead us to where we stand in life....
Don't forget the GOP/Conservatives/Corporate America were in collusion with each other for 6 strong years when they had total control of government. That meant business had total control. They aren't evil for taking from us, just like we aren't evil for demanding a raise. But I do believe they are greedy and they feel we are greedy for asking for more than what they already give. Shows you how much they value us. I found this and wanted to share:
PS. I always stereotype and lump people together. It's how I role.
Conservatives must constantly attack others (and focus on "morality") to keep hidden their own true agenda, which is no less than a return to the world of Scrooge & Marley, Inc. They're working to bring about a return to Robber Baron feudalism, with a stable, rich, and powerful ruling class, and an impoverished, frightened, and politically impotent working class.
But for conservatives to keep the loyalty of the working-class victims of their policies (which are shipping American jobs overseas, while fighting unions and minimum-wage increases here), they must convince people that there is a "them" out there - liberals in this case - who are out to destroy America's moral fiber and are thus responsible for working-class misery.
As Leo Strauss - the mentor of the Neoconservatives currently controlling much of Washington, DC - pointed out, it's not even necessary that the so-called enemies of the nation really be enemies. The myth of national Victimhood, when wrapped in the language of morality, will elevate a politician to power just as surely as will true national victimhood.
Former MSNBC producer Jeff Cohen tells me that he was ordered to always have at least two conservatives on the Donahue show whenever one liberal appeared, "and three conservatives to Michael Moore." Apparently the Moore Rule at MSNBC now also extends to Amy Goodman - a few days after Cohen said this on my radio program, I watched MSNBC's Chris Matthews position Goodman against three conservatives, and then dismiss her before the show ended so the remaining three could make their final points.
Hundreds of hours a day of right-wing programming pour out of radio stations nationwide, and conservative extremists are the most common "guests" and "experts" on network news and weekend political TV shows.
The possibility that the election of 2002 was also stolen - particularly in Georgia, where Max Cleland losing his seat to Saxby Chambliss gave Republicans control of the Senate - has never been seriously investigated.
And when a consortium of news organizations recounted the Florida 2000 vote and it was found that Al Gore actually won the entire state - and thus the presidency - no matter what standard was used to count the ballots, the corporate news organizations of America buried the story (although the New York Times and Washington Post at least did report it on 09/12/01).
Our Attorney General-designate calls the Geneva Conventions "quaint"; our Secretary of Defense stands accused of ordering torture; our President and Vice President knowingly lie to us and the world in order to lead an election-year preemptive war; and Congress passes national security bills without reading them - eerily like the German Parliament passed the Enabling Acts after the Reichstag was burned.
ThomHartmann.com - The Myth of National Victimhood - All Wrapped and Delivered for Christmas
No, it's the government's job to make sure companies are paying a living wage.
We know what companies will do if it is left up to them.
.
You keep saying that countries don't allow us to sell cars over there, but that is a lie. It's just that nobody over there wants to buy an inferior product just for the "privilege" of it being American.
You keep saying that countries don't allow us to sell cars over there, but that is a lie. It's just that nobody over there wants to buy an inferior product just for the "privilege" of it being American.
Ford has been enormously successful in Europe for decades...
But the company didn't pass the savings on to you. They cut worker wages and doubled the ceo's pay and increased profits for the shareholder.I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
Today they are letting people go every day.
But the company didn't pass the savings on to you. They cut worker wages and doubled the ceo's pay and increased profits for the shareholder.I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
And are you a trump supporter today? So you are for bringing jobs home but only $10 hr jobs. Not the kind of job a person can raise a family on
If we stopped illegal immigration the corporations would just lobby the government to bring in more legals. This would be better than illegals because they'd be paying taxes but corporations would still demand more bodies. I don't like it either. I'd rather we downsize and lower the population but that's not going to happen.But the company didn't pass the savings on to you. They cut worker wages and doubled the ceo's pay and increased profits for the shareholder.I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
And are you a trump supporter today? So you are for bringing jobs home but only $10 hr jobs. Not the kind of job a person can raise a family on
Saw Ed's totally conservative idiot response. Poor dipshit, like most cons, is so stupid he believes that a president can ship whomever they want out of the country. Disregarding the populace and the congress. Because cons have very simple minds and do not deal with truth. Fact is to difficult for them. But what he really missed, purposely or because he is stupid, is that the same corporations that paid the politicians to bring cheap labor into the country are those that work with republicans in general. No great outflow of illegal aliens is going to happen under republican administrations. Cause their monied supporters love illegal aliens and the low cost of labor they bring.
Poor ed. Hard to tell if he is simply lying again, or if he is that stupid. Or both.
If we stopped illegal immigration the corporations would just lobby the government to bring in more legals. This would be better than illegals because they'd be paying taxes but corporations would still demand more bodies. I don't like it either. I'd rather we downsize and lower the population but that's not going to happen.But the company didn't pass the savings on to you. They cut worker wages and doubled the ceo's pay and increased profits for the shareholder.I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
And are you a trump supporter today? So you are for bringing jobs home but only $10 hr jobs. Not the kind of job a person can raise a family on
Saw Ed's totally conservative idiot response. Poor dipshit, like most cons, is so stupid he believes that a president can ship whomever they want out of the country. Disregarding the populace and the congress. Because cons have very simple minds and do not deal with truth. Fact is to difficult for them. But what he really missed, purposely or because he is stupid, is that the same corporations that paid the politicians to bring cheap labor into the country are those that work with republicans in general. No great outflow of illegal aliens is going to happen under republican administrations. Cause their monied supporters love illegal aliens and the low cost of labor they bring.
Poor ed. Hard to tell if he is simply lying again, or if he is that stupid. Or both.
We have global warming because we are overpopulated.If we stopped illegal immigration the corporations would just lobby the government to bring in more legals. This would be better than illegals because they'd be paying taxes but corporations would still demand more bodies. I don't like it either. I'd rather we downsize and lower the population but that's not going to happen.But the company didn't pass the savings on to you. They cut worker wages and doubled the ceo's pay and increased profits for the shareholder.I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
And are you a trump supporter today? So you are for bringing jobs home but only $10 hr jobs. Not the kind of job a person can raise a family on
Saw Ed's totally conservative idiot response. Poor dipshit, like most cons, is so stupid he believes that a president can ship whomever they want out of the country. Disregarding the populace and the congress. Because cons have very simple minds and do not deal with truth. Fact is to difficult for them. But what he really missed, purposely or because he is stupid, is that the same corporations that paid the politicians to bring cheap labor into the country are those that work with republicans in general. No great outflow of illegal aliens is going to happen under republican administrations. Cause their monied supporters love illegal aliens and the low cost of labor they bring.
Poor ed. Hard to tell if he is simply lying again, or if he is that stupid. Or both.
Anyways, Obama has deported more illegals than any con could ever imagine. So in reality, I trust Democrats more than I do cons to clean up the mess
Ten or so years ago, I was asked by a con friend of mine who was bothered with my outlook on life what I thought the two largest problems were. I said biggest was overpopulation, followed closely by global warming. Turns out I still think so, but I have them in a tie. My theory is that global warming may eliminate the overpopulation problem. But as you can imagine, I agree with your concern about overpopulation. Perhaps the powers that be should start with Ed.
Hope all is well for you. Just kind of back, been fishing instead of posting. Anyway, best to you.
Oh, by the way, I have spent the past couple of days arm wrestling with a couple of cons regarding minimum wage, which morphed somehow into global warming. Couple of cons - Oldstyle, and Toddsterpatriot. Think Oldstyle decided to head for Siberia. Got caught lying again, poor boy. But toddster just keeps changing the subject and pushing.
$30 hr isn't feasible but the CEO can make $30 million? That's "feasible"?I think that the problem people have with $30 per hour salaries has nothing to do with jealousy, nothing to do with wanting people to have trouble raising their families...and everything to do with whether or not that salary is economically feasible given the fact that people, by and large, do not seem to want to buy the $30 per hour employees cars as much as they want the $15 per hour employees car.
If a business is losing money because people don't want their product AND they are continuing to pay their employees double what other companies are paying...they are going to have trouble. And giving them more money so that they can continue to pay their employees double what other companies are paying and making products that the people don't want isn't going to solve the problem...its just going to delay the next time the company comes begging for money to save its employees.
Now 8 years later we see you are stupid and wrong. We now know it costs $6k more to ship a car from America to Europe than it does from mexico to Europe.You keep saying that countries don't allow us to sell cars over there, but that is a lie. It's just that nobody over there wants to buy an inferior product just for the "privilege" of it being American.
GM and Ford sell their cars all over the world.I agree with you on the wages, Bobo. It isn't the wages that are killing the car companies. It's a combination of a poor product and the fact that people can't get or afford car loans.
Don't forget Toyota only pays $28 hr because their union competition pays $30. They have to or their employees will unionize.I've had this debate with many here for several weeks running in other threads as to the merits of the auto companies and while one can look at the UAW and say yes the salaries are high as compared to the competition even with the domestic foreign builders it is not the only reason that the big 3 find themselves here in this position. So IMHO one should look at the whole picture, take GM for example, you have basically had the same board running that company for years that has approved every UAW contract including the health and pension benefits. One cannot blame the factory worker that has for years been conditioned that this is the acceptable norm , when in fact world wide it is not the norm for auto companies that wish to compete and survive. If you take this in combination with companies that are slow to respond to market needs, have poor brand identification, poor quality perception, poor engineering, high health and pension costs, poor management then you have a blueprint for an insolvent company. Now IMHO this issue can be resolved in several ways and I have come to believe that it is the word Bankruptcy that some find distasteful and it's implications are far reaching when it comes to marketing, brand, credit, and supply issues, so what is best here? IMO the best thing to to do is to resolve this issue with with a board that has the EXACT same authority that a Bankruptcy judge has as one of the stipulations for lending this money. The second thing to do here is to require these boards to resign and force one of the companies to merge (Chrysler) and then trim them down to the point where they can compete. Now in exchange for this, these companies that produce autos for the American market should whereever possible build them in the United States. It seems only fair if they plan to use American tax payer dollars then the cars meant for this market should be constructed here. Much the same as the Toyota's and Hondas are here. There are many solutions to this issue, but the bottom line here is this, that in order to have employment where a person can earn a wage from a vibrant company, you need to have a vibrant company first, and that takes ALL sides understanding that the automobile model must change from the 1950's model they have worked with for so long. If a person can work for Toyota in San Antonio and make 23.00 and hour with health benefits and three full shifts, and that Tundra that comes out of that plants labor cost is 33.00 and hour then there is no reason why it is unreasonable to expect the UAW cannot do the same in areas where the cost of living in many cases is much lower and the wage scale will go farther. In the end though, let's stop blaming the workers here shall we, and understand that the UAW management teams as well as the Big 3 management teams got us here.
One other thing worth mentioning here too, I am no fan of these bailouts as seen in this disaster that the Fed has pulled this big bait and switch on everyone with 700 billion dollars. It would seem to me that if the purpose here was to give the banks 700 billion to free up credit to open up lending then demand they do or take the money back. One more thing worth mentioning here has anyone given any thought that not only have these companies already been approved for 25 billion dollars a few months ago but, they also each of them have finance companies that should be allowed to draw from that initial TARP fund to open up credit to sell cars.
I just have a problem with corporations that say, "let's cut labor costs to boost profits and then give ourselves big bonus'.You don't realize it, but you are helping to lower all our wages. They got you arguing about overpaid union workers to distract you from the real problem. American workers cost too much. Or foreign workers are cheaper.
Maybe union workers are overpaid and lazy. They also only make up about 12% of the American work force. They're just breaking them first. You're next.
Look here is the deal. As a business owner or CEO I am obligated to insure that my business stays intact or I have to get out of business. If I cannot make a profit then I do not belong in business. If I had paid myself way more than I was worth, spent more than I made and my business ended up in failure then any employees that I had lose too. That is the way the cookie crumbles.
I agree with you that we should not reward companies who send their business overseas. I did not make that policy. Yet these automakers also sell cars overseas and have factories in other countries. That was is their/CEO's choice.
Thank the stock market guru's for the oil fiasco. They have effectively brought everyone down to the same level.
Do I have any sympathy for anyone out there in big business? NO I DON'T. See I owned this nice little company that I spent my own labor and own money to build first. It was destroyed by the greedy assholes that I refused to sell out to (Very large corporations that control politics and money). Then to even further the damage I was personal held accountable for their fraud, the intentional destruction of my equipment, harrassment that most will never face and such in order for them to attempt to bury the truth of all who were involved in the matter. I lived for two years without running water and electric in order to try to fight these beast that have no regard for anyone other than their own selfish greed. There were certain union people here who assisted in the downfall of my business. Not one steppd out of the wings to even assist or help prevent the illegal actions that were taken against my family and myself as even my home was even raided and stripped and I was threaten with arrest for merely objecting and filing reports of what was happening. it was my children that sustained me during most of this and they do not belong to Unions and therefore recieve a tremendous amount of crap when they go out on a job that has unions workers.
I am seeing justice completed as these giant companies and Wall Street fall headlong into the pit that they have dug and created for themselves. If you haev worked for them then in effect you have assisted them. Do not push that off on me as your own problem as I fought the beast and you were not there for me either.
The pride of this nation's financial market and corporations is it's own downfall.
You seem to think that others should secure your position yet you have not helped to secure the same for others. You may need to find another line of work. Reorganize. It does not hurt to bad I am sure you will survive. Just pray that they keep the food stamp program going so you may feed yourself and your family. It is not that you will be able to eat adequately but at least you will not totally starve to death.
But while the guys at the top put wages back to where they should be, their wages have skyrocketed. Talk about arbitrary. Why did the ceo's worth go up 300%? Because his bonus is tied to profits and labor is considered a cost not an assetEnough of you dogging the American people/workers. Fucking retard/traitor. Pick one.
The end result with what you propose is your wages will be lowered and you'll fall out of the middle class.
Don't give me that. I AM THE AMERICAN WORKER DIPSHIT. Why should any company be required to pay labor some arbitrary wage the bearucrat says is a reasonable standard of living. Nothing goes up forever, bobo. What is going on with our economy is that the market is trying to reduce the cost of everything, incuding labor, back to where it should be. And morons like you who think bailing the big 3 out is a good idea because we should sacrafice the future for the present are making sure the cost of everything remains high. What goes up must come down bobo, the economy, the dow, the cost of a car, your home value, and the cost of labor can not and should not rise forever to infiniti.
Because you want to play the Since when Game. Since when do we outsource work to slave labor? Since when do we give corporations tax loopholes to send jobs overseas and avoid paying taxes? Since Reagan/Bush, that's when. Things were fine before GW got into office and pushed this agenda, which clearly doesn't work. Not for American workers anyways. The GOP are purposely lowering our wages. They don't believe in having a strong middle class.
We do it because we are in a global economy. That is what changed bobo, not Reagan or Bush getting elected. Technology has reached the point where it became easier to do business and just plain communicate over larger distances. It isn't any different than what happened to the country prior to this. Why do you think they build cars in Detroit? Could it maybe be because it's just a quick jump across the lake to the steel from Pensylvania. Again it's about competitive advantage. Pretend you lived in the early 1900's for a second. What if Ford decided they were going to build cars in Florida? Then you would be complaining about why are we sending jobs all the way down there. The refusal of people like you to adapt is the problem here, bobo.
This is why I say Republicans/Conservatives are all one and the same. Bush is a conservative. He very successfully pushed the conservative agenda. Cut wages and cut social programs that help poor/middle class people.
Say it is much as you like. It doesn't make it any less true you liberal/democrat.
Company A won't be able to sell products in America once the Dems get in control. Or they will, with tariffs.
Which we lead to lessar quality products that cost more because companies don't have to compete and your policies have artifically inflated the market. You rally don't know shit about economics and business do you.
Maybe if companies stopped paying CEO's $20 billion, they'd be more profitable. Maybe if the Government didn't let foreign companies come into America to compete on an uneven playing field, maybe American companies would AGAIN be profitable.
So the answer must be to undo what the GOP did.
Wrong, as always. Competition is a good thing moron. It makes everyone more efficient, it ensures job for the future. Your hatred of Bush and lack of understanding of basic economics makes it so that you can't see much past the nose on your face.
