We're Lowering Your Wages

[Valerie]

We are all individuals and we all have our own certain circumstances that have lead us to where we stand in life....

It's too arrogant and presumptuous in my opinion, to LUMP ALL the business owners together in to uncaring, GREEDY BASTARDS.....not giving a poopie about their own employees surviving and making a living so that they can take home more of the loot....

As well as it being arrogant for their opposition to LUMP ALL the people that are making the least among us, in to LAZY BASTARDS....not giving a poopie about themselves and stuck in their own POOR status, merely because they are lazy.

Everyone, comes to where they are today, through the circumstances and environment in which they reside, and how they are able to respond to it.


care

I'd rep you if I could!

 

[Care4all]

"poopie"???

oh, maybe i should have spelled it POOPEE? ohhh, i dunno???? lollollol
It's what my mom used to call baby poop or crud or crap.....the "Sh**" word was NOT permitted!!!!!

Care

 

[sealybobo]

I'm certainly not saying that 100% of corporations are evil. I'm thinking more around 92% of them. And it's not evil. A corporation is always going to look for ways to save, cut costs, max profits. That's their job.

Name the companies that overpay. The Big 3? Only because the Unions forced them too.

I worked for a New Horizons Computer Learning Center in the 90's. It was a franchise and Michigan became their number one franchise. The owner paid us top salespeople 16% of what we sold/collected. If I collected $100K, I took home $16k. After taxes, $9k. Yes that is a lot in taxes, but you get over it when you are making $9k clear a month. People who don't get over it are conservatives/republicans who don't get that in America we have a progressive tax system. The rich pay more and the poor pay less.

Now since then New Horizons doesn't pay as much either. He also took major accounts away from salespeople who earned/won that business. He made them, "national accounts". Can you say renig?

They were ruthless to new employees. If you didn't make your quota in the first month, you were written up. If you missed again in your second month, you were let go. Something like an 80% turnover ratio.

FYI, the guy who secured EDS & GM's business, was making over $500K a year. Now he's working at my company. He's starting over again after 9-11. He is a great example of a guy who got fucked by Bushanomics. Don't say it was 9-11, because more damaging to our economy than 9-11 were the laws Bush/Tom Delay passed after 9-11. Going to Iraq. All that has affected our economy and jobs. Companies going overseas for cheaper labor.

I don't blame the corporations. That's what they do. I blame the GOP government we had the past 8 years that passed anti labor laws. The Corporations are going to lobby/push for whatever they can get. It's OUR government that needs to keep them in check. The people who think government should stay out of it are

What companies out there are paying employees more than they have to?

My company continues to employ thousands of us in Michigan and thousands more all across the country. They have sent A LITTLE work to India, but not much. I do fear that they'll eventually leave Michigan and go down to Fort Worth Texas, where our sister company is. And from there they'll send as many jobs as they can overseas, to save a buck. They don't care about the American way, because my company is a Canadian owned company.

My company deals with American taxes. Why is a Canadian company the number 2 company doing this kind of business?

ThomHartmann.com - When Americans No Longer Own America

 

[Valerie]

I'm certainly not saying that 100% of corporations are evil. I'm thinking more around 92% of them. And it's not evil. A corporation is always going to look for ways to save, cut costs, max profits. That's their job.

Believe me, I don't doubt the greed of big corporations. I hadn't yet read what lead up to Care's comment. I just appreciate her sense of fairness.

A book recommendation:

"The Secret History of the American Empire: The Truth About Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and How to Change the World" by John Perkins

Perkins offers entertaining but disturbing accounts of the American government wreaking havoc around the world in support of American business. In Perkins' view, American presidents willingly comply with their CEO masters, distributing foreign aid to corrupt Third World leaders who keep a share and return the rest to U.S. business for major projects, leaving their nations poor and massively in debt, and requiring more loans and slavish obedience to U.S. policy. If any leader objects, the CIA destabilizes his government, by assassination if necessary. Gathering evidence is not Perkins's strong suit. Typically, a shadowy figure pulls him aside, insists on anonymity, then reveals all. Critics will rightfully accuse Perkins of dreadful journalism and a taste for conspiracy theories. Yet economists admit that loans and "expert advice" to poor nations are often harmful. Few deny that America has ruthlessly undermined uncooperative governments and supported dictators including Saddam Hussein. Perkins's assertions that the U.S. assassinated Ecuador's reformist president and connived at genocide in Timor and Sudan are not absurd, merely unproven. This book's greatest value may be to encourage a competent journalist to cover the same ground.

Go get 'em Bobo!

 

[Againsheila]

I think my feelings on the minimum wage can be summed up in the last paragraph in this article...

New jobs offer less than living wage

The study "underscores the entire reason" the nation's economy is struggling, said Dennis Eagle, lobbyist for the Washington Federation of State Employees. "People trapped in substandard jobs can't buy stuff."

 

[RodISHI]

I do have to say I appreciate everyone's comments well except for skulls (fact is you make money you pay taxes).

It takes many to get to the medium where everyone has a chance. the one thing everyone should be doing though in all their considerations is protect the working poor. just for the fact you could very well be next in that food line and the food may very well be short when you get to the head of the line.

 

[sealybobo]

I do have to say I appreciate everyone's comments well except for skulls (fact is you make money you pay taxes).

It takes many to get to the medium where everyone has a chance. the one thing everyone should be doing though in all their considerations is protect the working poor. just for the fact you could very well be next in that food line and the food may very well be short when you get to the head of the line.

No one in America should starve, freeze or go without healthcare. But I think it is more important to focus on the middle class, and here's why. If we put shelters, free clinics and soup kitchens in every city and we are all poor, then we are all taken care of right? Wrong. The rich would love this.

So I think it's important to protect and create a strong middle class. Then the poor have something to achieve.

I'm not saying screw the poor. We certainly should provide them with food, shelter and healthcare, but the middle class is what the Democrats should be focusing on.

Churches and charities should be looking out for the poor. There will always be poor. But it is not a given that there will always be a middle class.

 

[sealybobo]

I do have to say I appreciate everyone's comments well except for skulls (fact is you make money you pay taxes).

It takes many to get to the medium where everyone has a chance. the one thing everyone should be doing though in all their considerations is protect the working poor. just for the fact you could very well be next in that food line and the food may very well be short when you get to the head of the line.

Hey Rodi, I used to get mad when John Edwards would constantly talk about helping the poor. I would yell at the tv, "hey dumb ass, they aren't going to show up and vote for you on election day, start talking about the middle class".

I thought it was very noble of him to fight for the poor, but I didn't think it would win him any primaries.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't think it's sooo easy. You have a bug up your ass. Lighten up. I worked with a guy who started his own company. I was going to be a partner. I went without pay so the business could continue, bla,bla, etc. Don't act like what you did is so fucking rare or unique. It's not. And to me, it's not worth it. I'd rather work for someone else. Unless it really took off and we were wealthy from it. But most of my small business owner friends make as much as I do and they work 6 days a week. I get sick days, vacation days, healthcare and weekends off. You wouldn't believe how many days off I get.

Oh, the government is stopping you from being successful. Stop whining you little bitch.

PS. You had a partner. Safety net. Checkmate bitch!!!

Hey asshole you're the one who said it's "no biggie" if a business fails because all these people have someone to fall back on. Let me tell you it's not the case for most people. And obviously you couldn't cut it as a business owner so you'd just rather say that all businesses are evil and greedy.

And unlike you who would obviously like to skate by with as little work as possible and then whine that someone who works harder and makes more doesn't deserve it and should be taxed more because you don't have the guts to go out on your own and be your own boss. You'd rather work for someone else and then piss and moan about how your pay isn't fair or that it's not fair if you got fired or laid off

Let me ask you, in all this time off you have, how much have you saved and how much are you saving for retirement every year? or should other people be taxed to take care of your sorry ass?

And a 10% partner is no safety net asshole. I am under contract to pay back the investment plus interest after 5 years and if i went under i would still have to pay. And if my business failed, that 10% partner wouldn't let me move in with him or pay my bills so no safety net moron.

And if the fucking government wasn't taking a big wet bite out of my ass every year, yes I would be more successful. And so would you if you had the balls to be responsible for yourself.

 

[Bern80]

I do have to say I appreciate everyone's comments well except for skulls (fact is you make money you pay taxes).

It takes many to get to the medium where everyone has a chance.

Okay I would like you to lay this out for me. Start with say high school and take me along the progression to a middle income job, like a human resource manager or something. Show me this abundance of people without whom you can not attain a middle income job. Now I am not saying you can do all of it without a shred of help from anyone, I just want to test this idea of limited control over ones outcomes. Off the top of my head, I come up with around a dozen people tops who are directly responsible for shaping and influencing my future.

the one thing everyone should be doing though in all their considerations is protect the working poor. just for the fact you could very well be next in that food line and the food may very well be short when you get to the head of the line.

The problem still remains that generalizations are being made that aren't really accurate. You come up with x group you make up that is defined by one characteristic when in reality a wide variety of backgrounds, environments, personalities, beliefs, etc. make up those groups. You've done it at least twice, one in making out the majority of business owners and CEO's to be backstabbing slave drivers, and two right here with 'the working poor'. Again I have no problem helping people that need help. But that is only a small component of people that make up the group of people that work for very little money. Aside from the philosophical, moral and logisitcal reasons why I don't agree with a mandated living wage, this is just another reason why such a mandate is not neccessary in our society. It is simply an overreactive solution (and not a very good one in the first place) to the 'problem' that some jobs pay less than a person can live on.

 

[sealybobo]

Hey asshole you're the one who said it's "no biggie" if a business fails because all these people have someone to fall back on. Let me tell you it's not the case for most people. And obviously you couldn't cut it as a business owner so you'd just rather say that all businesses are evil and greedy.

And unlike you who would obviously like to skate by with as little work as possible and then whine that someone who works harder and makes more doesn't deserve it and should be taxed more because you don't have the guts to go out on your own and be your own boss. You'd rather work for someone else and then piss and moan about how your pay isn't fair or that it's not fair if you got fired or laid off

Let me ask you, in all this time off you have, how much have you saved and how much are you saving for retirement every year? or should other people be taxed to take care of your sorry ass?

And a 10% partner is no safety net asshole. I am under contract to pay back the investment plus interest after 5 years and if i went under i would still have to pay. And if my business failed, that 10% partner wouldn't let me move in with him or pay my bills so no safety net moron.

And if the fucking government wasn't taking a big wet bite out of my ass every year, yes I would be more successful. And so would you if you had the balls to be responsible for yourself.

I do know a couple of business owners like you, but I know a lot more who got the $200K from daddy to start it up.

And I'd much rather just work for myself. It is said that life was much easier back then. Back then, I collected enough that I could eat throughout the winter. Now that I work for someone else, I have to work enough to feed myself and the man.

I have a buddy who owns a tool and die. Laziest fucker you ever met. His dad died but before he died he taught him the business. He's a moron. He thinks he works harder than his employees. We go up north on his property that we hunt and he has us doing ALL the work like we work for him. He's lazy. Spoiled. Not saying that's you, but that's most of you.

Or my boss at New Horizons. The most dysfunctional family, but because dad was smart, his son became the President of the company. Oh he was good, and had a lot of the same opinions you have, but trust me, he had it handed to him. It worked out for him. I'm happy.

My family owned business' for 30 years. It's better to work for the man. At least it was until Bushanomics. Now people like me are losing our pensions and 401ks. But you're ok, right?

Trust me, you don't work hard. What's so hard about it? I have sales stress every month, just like you do. Being in sales, I do manage my own business. I just have a company administering the products/services I sell. I am my own boss. LOL. Seriously. And I get weekends off and full bene's.

But just like you guys, we want more. And you took away from us. Or your trickle down economics didn't work, and you caused inflation, so we want a fucking raise. And stop being a little bitch about it. You don't pay shit! Pay up!

 

[Andrew2382]

I do know a couple of business owners like you, but I know a lot more who got the $200K from daddy to start it up.

And I'd much rather just work for myself. It is said that life was much easier back then. Back then, I collected enough that I could eat throughout the winter. Now that I work for someone else, I have to work enough to feed myself and the man.

I have a buddy who owns a tool and die. Laziest fucker you ever met. His dad died but before he died he taught him the business. He's a moron. He thinks he works harder than his employees. We go up north on his property that we hunt and he has us doing ALL the work like we work for him. He's lazy. Spoiled. Not saying that's you, but that's most of you.

Well I am glad you are able to label all business owners into one general category...I mean it's not like millions of people out there go to banks and put things like their homes up as colleteral to get a loan to start their business and work hard....Apparently every business was handed down to them by their rich daddy

Thanks for the 411

Or my boss at New Horizons. The most dysfunctional family, but because dad was smart, his son became the President of the company. Oh he was good, and had a lot of the same opinions you have, but trust me, he had it handed to him. It worked out for him. I'm happy.

My family owned business' for 30 years. It's better to work for the man. At least it was until Bushanomics. Now people like me are losing our pensions and 401ks. But you're ok, right?

It was better working for the man? Who the hell would want to work for someone instead of being their own boss regardless of what time it was or who was President...I would think everyone would love to have and manage their own business.

Trust me, you don't work hard. What's so hard about it? I have sales stress every month, just like you do. Being in sales, I do manage my own business. I just have a company administering the products/services I sell. I am my own boss. LOL. Seriously. And I get weekends off and full bene's.

But just like you guys, we want more. And you took away from us. Or your trickle down economics didn't work, and you caused inflation, so we want a fucking raise. And stop being a little bitch about it. You don't pay shit! Pay up!

What the fuck do you know what a business owner does...you are in sales. I am not a business owner but I deal with them every day...shit is stressfull. Don't compare your little book of business you have from your sales job compared to the owner of the company...it isn't even close.

They have a lot more at stake in that company then you do. Everything trickles down...if your company makes more then you should get paid more based on your work and contributions to the profit the company made...If the company didn't make more then you shouldn't whine about asking for more.

The owner has the right to pay himself what he wants...it's his company. If you don't like it

A- get a new job
B- Start your own business

 

[sealybobo]

They have a lot more at stake in that company then you do. Everything trickles down...if your company makes more then you should get paid more based on your work and contributions to the profit the company made...If the company didn't make more then you shouldn't whine about asking for more.

The owner has the right to pay himself what he wants...it's his company. If you don't like it

A- get a new job
B- Start your own business

I think you'll find that in the last 8 years, profits were up and wages went down. That's what I'm complaining about.

The owner doesn't have the right to pay himself whatever he wants. Not when there are other stakeholders to consider. Pensions. Investors. BOD's.

You right wing conservative libertarian neo nuts crack me up. Your shit didn't work. I love how you try to ignore that fact.

Do you hear Jimmy Carter supporters talking shit? NO? Then you too should shut the fuck up.

 

[sealybobo]

Oh, and I thought of another business owner. A buddy named Gordy. Has a fucking mansion on the lake I live on. Yes, I live on a like bitches. But gordy lives in a fucking palace. Where did he get that? He's in his mid 20's. Daddy. So he opens a bar, and it doesn't work out, so he goes and buys a Honda dealership. You know, quads, snowmobiles, side by sides, jetski's.

Where does Gordy get all that money that he has such a nice home and can start and fail/struggle thru two businesses.

Proof I must work harder than you bithes!!! Gordy will blow through $500K rather than work for someone else. It must be tough being me. LOL!!!

Checkmait!

 

[sealybobo]

Well go ahead BooBoo start a business and get back to me when you start forking over tens of thousands of dollars a year to the fucking government and let me know how easy it is and how happy you are to see the government wasting your money.

See, this is what you don't get. Bush made it harder for people to enter the game. Harder to file bankruptsy if you are poor, easier to file if you are rich. Harder to get a loan if you are poor, easier if you do.

And I would not mind paying taxes on all the money I made, if I made money.

I think the high rent costs are what would kill me. My buddy owns a business in a strip mall and he bitches more about rent.

 

[sealybobo]

We are all individuals and we all have our own certain circumstances that have lead us to where we stand in life....

Don't forget the GOP/Conservatives/Corporate America were in collusion with each other for 6 strong years when they had total control of government. That meant business had total control. They aren't evil for taking from us, just like we aren't evil for demanding a raise. But I do believe they are greedy and they feel we are greedy for asking for more than what they already give. Shows you how much they value us. I found this and wanted to share:

PS. I always stereotype and lump people together. It's how I role.


Conservatives must constantly attack others (and focus on "morality") to keep hidden their own true agenda, which is no less than a return to the world of Scrooge & Marley, Inc. They're working to bring about a return to Robber Baron feudalism, with a stable, rich, and powerful ruling class, and an impoverished, frightened, and politically impotent working class.
But for conservatives to keep the loyalty of the working-class victims of their policies (which are shipping American jobs overseas, while fighting unions and minimum-wage increases here), they must convince people that there is a "them" out there - liberals in this case - who are out to destroy America's moral fiber and are thus responsible for working-class misery.
As Leo Strauss - the mentor of the Neoconservatives currently controlling much of Washington, DC - pointed out, it's not even necessary that the so-called enemies of the nation really be enemies. The myth of national Victimhood, when wrapped in the language of morality, will elevate a politician to power just as surely as will true national victimhood.
Former MSNBC producer Jeff Cohen tells me that he was ordered to always have at least two conservatives on the Donahue show whenever one liberal appeared, "and three conservatives to Michael Moore." Apparently the Moore Rule at MSNBC now also extends to Amy Goodman - a few days after Cohen said this on my radio program, I watched MSNBC's Chris Matthews position Goodman against three conservatives, and then dismiss her before the show ended so the remaining three could make their final points.
Hundreds of hours a day of right-wing programming pour out of radio stations nationwide, and conservative extremists are the most common "guests" and "experts" on network news and weekend political TV shows.
The possibility that the election of 2002 was also stolen - particularly in Georgia, where Max Cleland losing his seat to Saxby Chambliss gave Republicans control of the Senate - has never been seriously investigated.
And when a consortium of news organizations recounted the Florida 2000 vote and it was found that Al Gore actually won the entire state - and thus the presidency - no matter what standard was used to count the ballots, the corporate news organizations of America buried the story (although the New York Times and Washington Post at least did report it on 09/12/01).
Our Attorney General-designate calls the Geneva Conventions "quaint"; our Secretary of Defense stands accused of ordering torture; our President and Vice President knowingly lie to us and the world in order to lead an election-year preemptive war; and Congress passes national security bills without reading them - eerily like the German Parliament passed the Enabling Acts after the Reichstag was burned.
ThomHartmann.com - The Myth of National Victimhood - All Wrapped and Delivered for Christmas

 

[Zoomie1980]

I do have to say I appreciate everyone's comments well except for skulls (fact is you make money you pay taxes).

It takes many to get to the medium where everyone has a chance. the one thing everyone should be doing though in all their considerations is protect the working poor. just for the fact you could very well be next in that food line and the food may very well be short when you get to the head of the line.

I don't give a DAMN about the "working poor". They are "working poor" because they made all the STUPID life-choices to end up that way. Sympathy falls between Shit and Syphilis in my dictionary.

Now you couple that with the fact that even the poorest of our "poor" still manage to drive their own cars, have a microwave, cell phone, and cable TV, all have a roof over their heads and clothes on their back and eat something every day.

And no, I will never be in a food line, not ever. I own my home, have plenty of savings, and i grow most of my own food anyway. And at the end of the day, if it all breaks down, I know how to use guns and all sorts of weapons, and I have a LOT of them.

 

[sealybobo]

Proof

 

[del]

Proof

of what, that you've completely lost it?

 

[sealybobo]

Proof

of what, that you've completely lost it?

The guy in that other thread said, "show me where anyone ever said that $30 hr was too much for labor. SHOW ME!!! He said.

So I looked back and found this thread. Not for your eyes Del.