Wealth Tax: Yeah! Why do Warren Buffett and Bill gates need so much money in their Trust?

Brain357

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But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
Its a dangerous world out there

but I’m willing to reduce military spending by the same percentage that libs reduce domestic spending
yep. I even said back in 2017, cut across the board 2%. cut it. live within your means.
You just said you are good with military spending increases. Haha
 

jc456

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
Why is it always increase taxes rather than cut spending? If we cut out all the frivolous spending, we wouldn't need to keep raising taxes.

Also, its impossible to pay off the debt as there is more money owed than there is in existence. Every dollar borrowed is borrowed with interest, even if you gave back every dollar that was ever borrowed, you'd still owe the interest, which can only be paid by borrowing more money.

Its an endless cycle that can only be slowed by decreasing the rate of spending.
Because nobody cares about debt without a tax increase. Remember the tea party? They complained and complained about debt until they got tax cuts and then they disappeared. Meanwhile deficits increased drastically. The only way spending cuts will happen is if we get a tax increase and make people care about debt. Nobody cares about debt, they care about taxes.
But, the problem with that is, if we get into this idea that, hey, if we need more money, then we can just raise taxes. It gives no incentive to reduce spending if government thinks they can keep raising taxes to cover spending.

You have to cut spending because there is a limit to how much you can tax the people. At some point, people will be giving more money to the government than they keep for themselves....we're almost already there.

People in general don't care, and don't even think about the debt, they think about how much money they have in their paychecks. Most people don't even realize what the government is using all of their money for, they just take it for granted that "when payday comes, the government gets their cut and I get mine".

When you raise taxes, government doesn't say "oh hey, we have more money, let's do something so we can lower taxes later", they say "hey, we have more money now, so we can spend more" or, often, "we have to raise taxes to cover what we've already spent".

The debt ceiling keeps going up and up, every year it seems like we run into the debt ceiling and they keep raising it. That represents money that has to be paid back to someone, with interest. If you keep incurring debt, you can't make the payments if you never increase taxes. This is why I think we need to focus on spending cuts. We have to get spending under control so we can maybe someday lower taxes.

I'm no economist, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night......and I also realize that if you keep borrowing more money, you have to keep increasing your taxes to cover that borrowing.
Tax payers will only pay so much before anger.
Most tax payers have no clue what they actually pay in taxes.
They know how much their paychecks are. When a tax increase cuts pay, they will not be happy. Everyone loves their freebies now. The right loves military spending cause they have never paid for it. The left loves big gov cause they don’t pay for it. Everybody hates taxes...
All they know is the net.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much they pay in taxes besides no one is talking about raising taxes on most working people
Don’t underestimate the rich influence on politics. If they are unhappy about a tax increase, policy will be to cut spending.
It hasn't happened yet and the rich have owned our political system for 200 years.
And they pay drastically less in taxes. Tax cuts fuel big gov.
Even when the rich paid 70% the government never cut spending.

If you give the government more revenue they will simply spend that too.

In reality the government doesn't care how much revenue they take in they will spend more every year no matter what.
Yet we didn’t have a deficit problem back then . Deficit problems started with Reagan who cut taxes...
We've been running deficits almost every year since 1929
And they weren’t a large percent of gdp till the 80s. Obviously small deficits are not a big problem.
It's all cumulative.

We are still paying for the deficits from 1929.

And why don;t you show me where government has ever actually cut spending in all that time? There is absolutely no reason to think that government will ever cut spending even if taxes are raised.
The first Bush raised taxes and then spending cuts lead to lower deficits during Clinton.
So what if deficits were lower? Overall spending increased and Clinton left a larger debt than he inherited.

And don't try to minimize the effects of the tech bubble on revenues either.

Clinton just got lucky that that particular bubble didn't burst on his watch
Deficits declined, that’s a big deal. By comparison they increased with Reagan, bushes, Trump... if they always declined debt would shrink as a percent of gdp
it doesn't really matter as the debt still grew so IOW Clinton still spent more than government revenue.

You said increased taxes lead to spending cuts and they don't. All increased revenue does is give corrupt politicians more to spend and spend they will.
You are lying to yourself. Decreasing deficits matter. You just aren’t fiscally responsible.
But they don't all that matters is the increasing debt.

And like I said Clinton didn't decrease spending he benefited from the tech bubble and the additional tax revenues it brought in and he was just lucky enough that that bubble didn't burst until right after he left office.

You need to look at the whole picture not just the parts you cherry pick
Debt increases a lot faster with increasing deficits. Had we maintained low deficits after Clinton the debt would be a fraction of what it is now. Your arguments are bad math...

The reason why debt increases with deficits is because that deficit is added to the debt every year.

That is the amount of money we have to borrow to pay for all the spending.

That is accounting and economics 101.
which means stop spending. logic 101
But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
sure why not? we take more than we spend on military. again, revenue is spent. the issue is over spending what one doesn't have. fk dude, stop post such stupid shit you can't defend.

facts

Federal Tax Revenue by Source, 1934 - 2018 | Tax Foundation


Fiscal YearIndividual Income TaxesCorporate Income TaxesSocial Insurance and Retirement ReceiptsExcise TaxesOtherTotal
1934$ 420.00$ 364.00$ 30.00$ 1,354.00$ 788.00$ 2,955.00
1935$ 527.00$ 529.00$ 31.00$ 1,439.00$ 1,084.00$ 3,609.00
1936$ 674.00$ 719.00$ 52.00$ 1,631.00$ 847.00$ 3,923.00
1937$ 1,092.00$ 1,038.00$ 580.00$ 1,876.00$ 801.00$ 5,387.00
1938$ 1,286.00$ 1,287.00$ 1,541.00$ 1,863.00$ 773.00$ 6,751.00
1939$ 1,029.00$ 1,127.00$ 1,593.00$ 1,871.00$ 675.00$ 6,295.00
1940$ 892.00$ 1,197.00$ 1,785.00$ 1,977.00$ 698.00$ 6,548.00
1941$ 1,314.00$ 2,124.00$ 1,940.00$ 2,552.00$ 781.00$ 8,712.00
1942$ 3,263.00$ 4,719.00$ 2,452.00$ 3,399.00$ 801.00$ 14,634.00
1943$ 6,505.00$ 9,557.00$ 3,044.00$ 4,096.00$ 800.00$ 24,001.00
1944$ 19,705.00$ 14,838.00$ 3,473.00$ 4,759.00$ 972.00$ 43,747.00
1945$ 18,372.00$ 15,988.00$ 3,451.00$ 6,265.00$ 1,083.00$ 45,159.00
1946$ 16,098.00$ 11,883.00$ 3,115.00$ 6,998.00$ 1,202.00$ 39,296.00
1947$ 17,935.00$ 8,615.00$ 3,422.00$ 7,211.00$ 1,331.00$ 38,514.00
1948$ 19,315.00$ 9,678.00$ 3,751.00$ 7,356.00$ 1,461.00$ 41,560.00
1949$ 15,552.00$ 11,192.00$ 3,781.00$ 7,502.00$ 1,388.00$ 39,415.00
1950$ 15,755.00$ 10,449.00$ 4,338.00$ 7,550.00$ 1,351.00$ 39,443.00
1951$ 21,616.00$ 14,101.00$ 5,674.00$ 8,648.00$ 1,578.00$ 51,616.00
1952$ 27,934.00$ 21,226.00$ 6,445.00$ 8,852.00$ 1,710.00$ 66,167.00
1953$ 29,816.00$ 21,238.00$ 6,820.00$ 9,877.00$ 1,857.00$ 69,608.00
1954$ 29,542.00$ 21,101.00$ 7,208.00$ 9,945.00$ 1,905.00$ 69,701.00
1955$ 28,747.00$ 17,861.00$ 7,862.00$ 9,131.00$ 1,850.00$ 65,451.00
1956$ 32,188.00$ 20,880.00$ 9,320.00$ 9,929.00$ 2,270.00$ 74,587.00
1957$ 35,620.00$ 21,167.00$ 9,997.00$ 10,534.00$ 2,672.00$ 79,990.00
1958$ 34,724.00$ 20,074.00$ 11,239.00$ 10,638.00$ 2,961.00$ 79,636.00
1959$ 36,719.00$ 17,309.00$ 11,722.00$ 10,578.00$ 2,921.00$ 79,249.00
1960$ 40,715.00$ 21,494.00$ 14,683.00$ 11,676.00$ 3,923.00$ 92,492.00
1961$ 41,338.00$ 20,954.00$ 16,439.00$ 11,860.00$ 3,796.00$ 94,388.00
1962$ 45,571.00$ 20,523.00$ 17,046.00$ 12,534.00$ 4,001.00$ 99,676.00
1963$ 47,588.00$ 21,579.00$ 19,804.00$ 13,194.00$ 4,395.00$ 106,560.00
1964$ 48,697.00$ 23,493.00$ 21,963.00$ 13,731.00$ 4,731.00$ 112,613.00
1965$ 48,792.00$ 25,461.00$ 22,242.00$ 14,570.00$ 5,753.00$ 116,817.00
1966$ 55,446.00$ 30,073.00$ 25,546.00$ 13,062.00$ 6,708.00$ 130,835.00
1967$ 61,526.00$ 33,971.00$ 32,619.00$ 13,719.00$ 6,987.00$ 148,822.00
1968$ 68,726.00$ 28,665.00$ 33,923.00$ 14,079.00$ 7,580.00$ 152,973.00
1969$ 87,249.00$ 36,678.00$ 39,015.00$ 15,222.00$ 8,718.00$ 186,882.00
1970$ 90,412.00$ 32,829.00$ 44,362.00$ 15,705.00$ 9,499.00$ 192,807.00
1971$ 86,230.00$ 26,785.00$ 47,325.00$ 16,614.00$ 10,185.00$ 187,139.00
1972$ 94,737.00$ 32,166.00$ 52,574.00$ 15,477.00$ 12,355.00$ 207,309.00
1973$ 103,246.00$ 36,153.00$ 63,115.00$ 16,260.00$ 12,026.00$ 230,799.00
1974$ 118,952.00$ 38,620.00$ 75,071.00$ 16,844.00$ 13,737.00$ 263,224.00
1975$ 122,386.00$ 40,621.00$ 84,534.00$ 16,551.00$ 14,998.00$ 279,090.00
1976$ 131,603.00$ 41,409.00$ 90,769.00$ 16,963.00$ 17,317.00$ 298,060.00
TQ$ 38,801.00$ 8,460.00$ 25,219.00$ 4,473.00$ 4,279.00$ 81,232.00
1977$ 157,626.00$ 54,892.00$ 106,485.00$ 17,548.00$ 19,008.00$ 355,559.00
1978$ 180,988.00$ 59,952.00$ 120,967.00$ 18,376.00$ 19,278.00$ 399,561.00
1979$ 217,841.00$ 65,677.00$ 138,939.00$ 18,745.00$ 22,101.00$ 463,302.00
1980$ 244,069.00$ 64,600.00$ 157,803.00$ 24,329.00$ 26,311.00$ 517,112.00
1981$ 285,917.00$ 61,137.00$ 182,720.00$ 40,839.00$ 28,659.00$ 599,272.00
1982$ 297,744.00$ 49,207.00$ 201,498.00$ 36,311.00$ 33,006.00$ 617,766.00
1983$ 288,938.00$ 37,022.00$ 208,994.00$ 35,300.00$ 30,309.00$ 600,562.00
1984$ 298,415.00$ 56,893.00$ 239,376.00$ 37,361.00$ 34,392.00$ 666,438.00
1985$ 334,531.00$ 61,331.00$ 265,163.00$ 35,992.00$ 37,020.00$ 734,037.00
1986$ 348,959.00$ 63,143.00$ 283,901.00$ 32,919.00$ 40,233.00$ 769,155.00
1987$ 392,557.00$ 83,926.00$ 303,318.00$ 32,457.00$ 42,029.00$ 854,288.00
1988$ 401,181.00$ 94,508.00$ 334,335.00$ 35,227.00$ 43,987.00$ 909,238.00
1989$ 445,690.00$103,291.00$ 359,416.00$ 34,386.00$ 48,321.00$ 991,105.00
1990$ 466,884.00$ 93,507.00$ 380,047.00$ 35,345.00$ 56,174.00$1,031,958.00
1991$ 467,827.00$ 98,086.00$ 396,016.00$ 42,402.00$ 50,657.00$1,054,988.00
1992$ 475,964.00$100,270.00$ 413,689.00$ 45,569.00$ 55,717.00$1,091,208.00
1993$ 509,680.00$117,520.00$ 428,300.00$ 48,057.00$ 50,778.00$1,154,335.00
1994$ 543,055.00$140,385.00$ 461,475.00$ 55,225.00$ 58,427.00$1,258,566.00
1995$ 590,244.00$157,004.00$ 484,473.00$ 57,484.00$ 62,585.00$1,351,790.00
1996$ 656,417.00$171,824.00$ 509,414.00$ 54,014.00$ 61,384.00$1,453,053.00
1997$ 737,466.00$182,293.00$ 539,371.00$ 56,924.00$ 63,178.00$1,579,232.00
1998$ 828,586.00$188,677.00$ 571,831.00$ 57,673.00$ 74,961.00$1,721,728.00
1999$ 879,480.00$184,680.00$ 611,833.00$ 70,414.00$ 81,045.00$1,827,452.00
2000$1,004,462.00$207,289.00$ 652,852.00$ 68,865.00$ 91,723.00$2,025,191.00
2001$ 994,339.00$151,075.00$ 693,967.00$ 66,232.00$ 85,469.00$1,991,082.00
2002$ 858,345.00$148,044.00$ 700,760.00$ 66,989.00$ 78,998.00$1,853,136.00
2003$ 793,699.00$131,778.00$ 712,978.00$ 67,524.00$ 76,335.00$1,782,314.00
2004$ 808,959.00$189,371.00$ 733,407.00$ 69,855.00$ 78,522.00$1,880,114.00
2005$ 927,222.00$278,282.00$ 794,125.00$ 73,094.00$ 80,888.00$2,153,611.00
2006$1,043,908.00$353,915.00$ 837,821.00$ 73,961.00$ 97,264.00$2,406,869.00
2007$1,163,472.00$370,243.00$ 869,607.00$ 65,069.00$ 99,594.00$2,567,985.00
2008$1,145,747.00$304,346.00$ 900,155.00$ 67,334.00$106,409.00$2,523,991.00
2009$ 915,308.00$138,229.00$ 890,917.00$ 62,483.00$ 98,052.00$2,104,989.00
2010$ 898,549.00$191,437.00$ 864,814.00$ 66,909.00$140,997.00$2,162,706.00
2011$1,091,473.00$181,085.00$ 818,792.00$ 72,381.00$139,735.00$2,303,466.00
2012$1,132,206.00$242,289.00$ 845,314.00$ 79,061.00$151,294.00$2,450,164.00
2013 estimate$1,234,012.00$287,716.00$ 951,093.00$ 85,346.00$153,878.00$2,712,045.00
2014 estimate$1,383,172.00$332,819.00$1,030,655.00$104,949.00$182,023.00$3,033,618.00
2015 estimate$1,551,774.00$376,091.00$1,084,566.00$113,939.00$205,315.00$3,331,685.00
2016 estimate$1,700,022.00$401,324.00$1,160,286.00$114,806.00$185,013.00$3,561,451.00
2017 estimate$1,843,569.00$430,148.00$1,218,321.00$118,237.00$150,267.00$3,760,542.00
2018 estimate$1,977,142.00$450,377.00$1,280,054.00$125,092.00$141,309.00$3,973,974.00
Right,
You don’t care about debt.
the fk I don't. cut spending. still my position. I just showed you that cutting taxes brings in more revenue. so shut the fk up.
 

jc456

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But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
Its a dangerous world out there

but I’m willing to reduce military spending by the same percentage that libs reduce domestic spending
yep. I even said back in 2017, cut across the board 2%. cut it. live within your means.
You just said you are good with military spending increases. Haha
why not, other programs don't need any money. again, you still don't understand. It's truly embarrassing that you don't know that tax dollars are used for spending. wow.
 

jc456

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Brain357 still waiting on those facts of yours. Come on tiger
 

Brain357

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
Why is it always increase taxes rather than cut spending? If we cut out all the frivolous spending, we wouldn't need to keep raising taxes.

Also, its impossible to pay off the debt as there is more money owed than there is in existence. Every dollar borrowed is borrowed with interest, even if you gave back every dollar that was ever borrowed, you'd still owe the interest, which can only be paid by borrowing more money.

Its an endless cycle that can only be slowed by decreasing the rate of spending.
Because nobody cares about debt without a tax increase. Remember the tea party? They complained and complained about debt until they got tax cuts and then they disappeared. Meanwhile deficits increased drastically. The only way spending cuts will happen is if we get a tax increase and make people care about debt. Nobody cares about debt, they care about taxes.
But, the problem with that is, if we get into this idea that, hey, if we need more money, then we can just raise taxes. It gives no incentive to reduce spending if government thinks they can keep raising taxes to cover spending.

You have to cut spending because there is a limit to how much you can tax the people. At some point, people will be giving more money to the government than they keep for themselves....we're almost already there.

People in general don't care, and don't even think about the debt, they think about how much money they have in their paychecks. Most people don't even realize what the government is using all of their money for, they just take it for granted that "when payday comes, the government gets their cut and I get mine".

When you raise taxes, government doesn't say "oh hey, we have more money, let's do something so we can lower taxes later", they say "hey, we have more money now, so we can spend more" or, often, "we have to raise taxes to cover what we've already spent".

The debt ceiling keeps going up and up, every year it seems like we run into the debt ceiling and they keep raising it. That represents money that has to be paid back to someone, with interest. If you keep incurring debt, you can't make the payments if you never increase taxes. This is why I think we need to focus on spending cuts. We have to get spending under control so we can maybe someday lower taxes.

I'm no economist, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night......and I also realize that if you keep borrowing more money, you have to keep increasing your taxes to cover that borrowing.
Tax payers will only pay so much before anger.
Most tax payers have no clue what they actually pay in taxes.
They know how much their paychecks are. When a tax increase cuts pay, they will not be happy. Everyone loves their freebies now. The right loves military spending cause they have never paid for it. The left loves big gov cause they don’t pay for it. Everybody hates taxes...
All they know is the net.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much they pay in taxes besides no one is talking about raising taxes on most working people
Don’t underestimate the rich influence on politics. If they are unhappy about a tax increase, policy will be to cut spending.
It hasn't happened yet and the rich have owned our political system for 200 years.
And they pay drastically less in taxes. Tax cuts fuel big gov.
Even when the rich paid 70% the government never cut spending.

If you give the government more revenue they will simply spend that too.

In reality the government doesn't care how much revenue they take in they will spend more every year no matter what.
Yet we didn’t have a deficit problem back then . Deficit problems started with Reagan who cut taxes...
We've been running deficits almost every year since 1929
And they weren’t a large percent of gdp till the 80s. Obviously small deficits are not a big problem.
It's all cumulative.

We are still paying for the deficits from 1929.

And why don;t you show me where government has ever actually cut spending in all that time? There is absolutely no reason to think that government will ever cut spending even if taxes are raised.
The first Bush raised taxes and then spending cuts lead to lower deficits during Clinton.
So what if deficits were lower? Overall spending increased and Clinton left a larger debt than he inherited.

And don't try to minimize the effects of the tech bubble on revenues either.

Clinton just got lucky that that particular bubble didn't burst on his watch
Deficits declined, that’s a big deal. By comparison they increased with Reagan, bushes, Trump... if they always declined debt would shrink as a percent of gdp
it doesn't really matter as the debt still grew so IOW Clinton still spent more than government revenue.

You said increased taxes lead to spending cuts and they don't. All increased revenue does is give corrupt politicians more to spend and spend they will.
You are lying to yourself. Decreasing deficits matter. You just aren’t fiscally responsible.
But they don't all that matters is the increasing debt.

And like I said Clinton didn't decrease spending he benefited from the tech bubble and the additional tax revenues it brought in and he was just lucky enough that that bubble didn't burst until right after he left office.

You need to look at the whole picture not just the parts you cherry pick
Debt increases a lot faster with increasing deficits. Had we maintained low deficits after Clinton the debt would be a fraction of what it is now. Your arguments are bad math...

The reason why debt increases with deficits is because that deficit is added to the debt every year.

That is the amount of money we have to borrow to pay for all the spending.

That is accounting and economics 101.
which means stop spending. logic 101
But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
sure why not? we take more than we spend on military. again, revenue is spent. the issue is over spending what one doesn't have. fk dude, stop post such stupid shit you can't defend.

facts

Federal Tax Revenue by Source, 1934 - 2018 | Tax Foundation


Fiscal YearIndividual Income TaxesCorporate Income TaxesSocial Insurance and Retirement ReceiptsExcise TaxesOtherTotal
1934$ 420.00$ 364.00$ 30.00$ 1,354.00$ 788.00$ 2,955.00
1935$ 527.00$ 529.00$ 31.00$ 1,439.00$ 1,084.00$ 3,609.00
1936$ 674.00$ 719.00$ 52.00$ 1,631.00$ 847.00$ 3,923.00
1937$ 1,092.00$ 1,038.00$ 580.00$ 1,876.00$ 801.00$ 5,387.00
1938$ 1,286.00$ 1,287.00$ 1,541.00$ 1,863.00$ 773.00$ 6,751.00
1939$ 1,029.00$ 1,127.00$ 1,593.00$ 1,871.00$ 675.00$ 6,295.00
1940$ 892.00$ 1,197.00$ 1,785.00$ 1,977.00$ 698.00$ 6,548.00
1941$ 1,314.00$ 2,124.00$ 1,940.00$ 2,552.00$ 781.00$ 8,712.00
1942$ 3,263.00$ 4,719.00$ 2,452.00$ 3,399.00$ 801.00$ 14,634.00
1943$ 6,505.00$ 9,557.00$ 3,044.00$ 4,096.00$ 800.00$ 24,001.00
1944$ 19,705.00$ 14,838.00$ 3,473.00$ 4,759.00$ 972.00$ 43,747.00
1945$ 18,372.00$ 15,988.00$ 3,451.00$ 6,265.00$ 1,083.00$ 45,159.00
1946$ 16,098.00$ 11,883.00$ 3,115.00$ 6,998.00$ 1,202.00$ 39,296.00
1947$ 17,935.00$ 8,615.00$ 3,422.00$ 7,211.00$ 1,331.00$ 38,514.00
1948$ 19,315.00$ 9,678.00$ 3,751.00$ 7,356.00$ 1,461.00$ 41,560.00
1949$ 15,552.00$ 11,192.00$ 3,781.00$ 7,502.00$ 1,388.00$ 39,415.00
1950$ 15,755.00$ 10,449.00$ 4,338.00$ 7,550.00$ 1,351.00$ 39,443.00
1951$ 21,616.00$ 14,101.00$ 5,674.00$ 8,648.00$ 1,578.00$ 51,616.00
1952$ 27,934.00$ 21,226.00$ 6,445.00$ 8,852.00$ 1,710.00$ 66,167.00
1953$ 29,816.00$ 21,238.00$ 6,820.00$ 9,877.00$ 1,857.00$ 69,608.00
1954$ 29,542.00$ 21,101.00$ 7,208.00$ 9,945.00$ 1,905.00$ 69,701.00
1955$ 28,747.00$ 17,861.00$ 7,862.00$ 9,131.00$ 1,850.00$ 65,451.00
1956$ 32,188.00$ 20,880.00$ 9,320.00$ 9,929.00$ 2,270.00$ 74,587.00
1957$ 35,620.00$ 21,167.00$ 9,997.00$ 10,534.00$ 2,672.00$ 79,990.00
1958$ 34,724.00$ 20,074.00$ 11,239.00$ 10,638.00$ 2,961.00$ 79,636.00
1959$ 36,719.00$ 17,309.00$ 11,722.00$ 10,578.00$ 2,921.00$ 79,249.00
1960$ 40,715.00$ 21,494.00$ 14,683.00$ 11,676.00$ 3,923.00$ 92,492.00
1961$ 41,338.00$ 20,954.00$ 16,439.00$ 11,860.00$ 3,796.00$ 94,388.00
1962$ 45,571.00$ 20,523.00$ 17,046.00$ 12,534.00$ 4,001.00$ 99,676.00
1963$ 47,588.00$ 21,579.00$ 19,804.00$ 13,194.00$ 4,395.00$ 106,560.00
1964$ 48,697.00$ 23,493.00$ 21,963.00$ 13,731.00$ 4,731.00$ 112,613.00
1965$ 48,792.00$ 25,461.00$ 22,242.00$ 14,570.00$ 5,753.00$ 116,817.00
1966$ 55,446.00$ 30,073.00$ 25,546.00$ 13,062.00$ 6,708.00$ 130,835.00
1967$ 61,526.00$ 33,971.00$ 32,619.00$ 13,719.00$ 6,987.00$ 148,822.00
1968$ 68,726.00$ 28,665.00$ 33,923.00$ 14,079.00$ 7,580.00$ 152,973.00
1969$ 87,249.00$ 36,678.00$ 39,015.00$ 15,222.00$ 8,718.00$ 186,882.00
1970$ 90,412.00$ 32,829.00$ 44,362.00$ 15,705.00$ 9,499.00$ 192,807.00
1971$ 86,230.00$ 26,785.00$ 47,325.00$ 16,614.00$ 10,185.00$ 187,139.00
1972$ 94,737.00$ 32,166.00$ 52,574.00$ 15,477.00$ 12,355.00$ 207,309.00
1973$ 103,246.00$ 36,153.00$ 63,115.00$ 16,260.00$ 12,026.00$ 230,799.00
1974$ 118,952.00$ 38,620.00$ 75,071.00$ 16,844.00$ 13,737.00$ 263,224.00
1975$ 122,386.00$ 40,621.00$ 84,534.00$ 16,551.00$ 14,998.00$ 279,090.00
1976$ 131,603.00$ 41,409.00$ 90,769.00$ 16,963.00$ 17,317.00$ 298,060.00
TQ$ 38,801.00$ 8,460.00$ 25,219.00$ 4,473.00$ 4,279.00$ 81,232.00
1977$ 157,626.00$ 54,892.00$ 106,485.00$ 17,548.00$ 19,008.00$ 355,559.00
1978$ 180,988.00$ 59,952.00$ 120,967.00$ 18,376.00$ 19,278.00$ 399,561.00
1979$ 217,841.00$ 65,677.00$ 138,939.00$ 18,745.00$ 22,101.00$ 463,302.00
1980$ 244,069.00$ 64,600.00$ 157,803.00$ 24,329.00$ 26,311.00$ 517,112.00
1981$ 285,917.00$ 61,137.00$ 182,720.00$ 40,839.00$ 28,659.00$ 599,272.00
1982$ 297,744.00$ 49,207.00$ 201,498.00$ 36,311.00$ 33,006.00$ 617,766.00
1983$ 288,938.00$ 37,022.00$ 208,994.00$ 35,300.00$ 30,309.00$ 600,562.00
1984$ 298,415.00$ 56,893.00$ 239,376.00$ 37,361.00$ 34,392.00$ 666,438.00
1985$ 334,531.00$ 61,331.00$ 265,163.00$ 35,992.00$ 37,020.00$ 734,037.00
1986$ 348,959.00$ 63,143.00$ 283,901.00$ 32,919.00$ 40,233.00$ 769,155.00
1987$ 392,557.00$ 83,926.00$ 303,318.00$ 32,457.00$ 42,029.00$ 854,288.00
1988$ 401,181.00$ 94,508.00$ 334,335.00$ 35,227.00$ 43,987.00$ 909,238.00
1989$ 445,690.00$103,291.00$ 359,416.00$ 34,386.00$ 48,321.00$ 991,105.00
1990$ 466,884.00$ 93,507.00$ 380,047.00$ 35,345.00$ 56,174.00$1,031,958.00
1991$ 467,827.00$ 98,086.00$ 396,016.00$ 42,402.00$ 50,657.00$1,054,988.00
1992$ 475,964.00$100,270.00$ 413,689.00$ 45,569.00$ 55,717.00$1,091,208.00
1993$ 509,680.00$117,520.00$ 428,300.00$ 48,057.00$ 50,778.00$1,154,335.00
1994$ 543,055.00$140,385.00$ 461,475.00$ 55,225.00$ 58,427.00$1,258,566.00
1995$ 590,244.00$157,004.00$ 484,473.00$ 57,484.00$ 62,585.00$1,351,790.00
1996$ 656,417.00$171,824.00$ 509,414.00$ 54,014.00$ 61,384.00$1,453,053.00
1997$ 737,466.00$182,293.00$ 539,371.00$ 56,924.00$ 63,178.00$1,579,232.00
1998$ 828,586.00$188,677.00$ 571,831.00$ 57,673.00$ 74,961.00$1,721,728.00
1999$ 879,480.00$184,680.00$ 611,833.00$ 70,414.00$ 81,045.00$1,827,452.00
2000$1,004,462.00$207,289.00$ 652,852.00$ 68,865.00$ 91,723.00$2,025,191.00
2001$ 994,339.00$151,075.00$ 693,967.00$ 66,232.00$ 85,469.00$1,991,082.00
2002$ 858,345.00$148,044.00$ 700,760.00$ 66,989.00$ 78,998.00$1,853,136.00
2003$ 793,699.00$131,778.00$ 712,978.00$ 67,524.00$ 76,335.00$1,782,314.00
2004$ 808,959.00$189,371.00$ 733,407.00$ 69,855.00$ 78,522.00$1,880,114.00
2005$ 927,222.00$278,282.00$ 794,125.00$ 73,094.00$ 80,888.00$2,153,611.00
2006$1,043,908.00$353,915.00$ 837,821.00$ 73,961.00$ 97,264.00$2,406,869.00
2007$1,163,472.00$370,243.00$ 869,607.00$ 65,069.00$ 99,594.00$2,567,985.00
2008$1,145,747.00$304,346.00$ 900,155.00$ 67,334.00$106,409.00$2,523,991.00
2009$ 915,308.00$138,229.00$ 890,917.00$ 62,483.00$ 98,052.00$2,104,989.00
2010$ 898,549.00$191,437.00$ 864,814.00$ 66,909.00$140,997.00$2,162,706.00
2011$1,091,473.00$181,085.00$ 818,792.00$ 72,381.00$139,735.00$2,303,466.00
2012$1,132,206.00$242,289.00$ 845,314.00$ 79,061.00$151,294.00$2,450,164.00
2013 estimate$1,234,012.00$287,716.00$ 951,093.00$ 85,346.00$153,878.00$2,712,045.00
2014 estimate$1,383,172.00$332,819.00$1,030,655.00$104,949.00$182,023.00$3,033,618.00
2015 estimate$1,551,774.00$376,091.00$1,084,566.00$113,939.00$205,315.00$3,331,685.00
2016 estimate$1,700,022.00$401,324.00$1,160,286.00$114,806.00$185,013.00$3,561,451.00
2017 estimate$1,843,569.00$430,148.00$1,218,321.00$118,237.00$150,267.00$3,760,542.00
2018 estimate$1,977,142.00$450,377.00$1,280,054.00$125,092.00$141,309.00$3,973,974.00
Right,
You don’t care about debt.
the fk I don't. cut spending. still my position. I just showed you that cutting taxes brings in more revenue. so shut the fk up.
You showed revenue increases every year. Duh . It’s the rate of increase that matters.
 

jc456

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
Why is it always increase taxes rather than cut spending? If we cut out all the frivolous spending, we wouldn't need to keep raising taxes.

Also, its impossible to pay off the debt as there is more money owed than there is in existence. Every dollar borrowed is borrowed with interest, even if you gave back every dollar that was ever borrowed, you'd still owe the interest, which can only be paid by borrowing more money.

Its an endless cycle that can only be slowed by decreasing the rate of spending.
Because nobody cares about debt without a tax increase. Remember the tea party? They complained and complained about debt until they got tax cuts and then they disappeared. Meanwhile deficits increased drastically. The only way spending cuts will happen is if we get a tax increase and make people care about debt. Nobody cares about debt, they care about taxes.
But, the problem with that is, if we get into this idea that, hey, if we need more money, then we can just raise taxes. It gives no incentive to reduce spending if government thinks they can keep raising taxes to cover spending.

You have to cut spending because there is a limit to how much you can tax the people. At some point, people will be giving more money to the government than they keep for themselves....we're almost already there.

People in general don't care, and don't even think about the debt, they think about how much money they have in their paychecks. Most people don't even realize what the government is using all of their money for, they just take it for granted that "when payday comes, the government gets their cut and I get mine".

When you raise taxes, government doesn't say "oh hey, we have more money, let's do something so we can lower taxes later", they say "hey, we have more money now, so we can spend more" or, often, "we have to raise taxes to cover what we've already spent".

The debt ceiling keeps going up and up, every year it seems like we run into the debt ceiling and they keep raising it. That represents money that has to be paid back to someone, with interest. If you keep incurring debt, you can't make the payments if you never increase taxes. This is why I think we need to focus on spending cuts. We have to get spending under control so we can maybe someday lower taxes.

I'm no economist, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night......and I also realize that if you keep borrowing more money, you have to keep increasing your taxes to cover that borrowing.
Tax payers will only pay so much before anger.
Most tax payers have no clue what they actually pay in taxes.
They know how much their paychecks are. When a tax increase cuts pay, they will not be happy. Everyone loves their freebies now. The right loves military spending cause they have never paid for it. The left loves big gov cause they don’t pay for it. Everybody hates taxes...
All they know is the net.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much they pay in taxes besides no one is talking about raising taxes on most working people
Don’t underestimate the rich influence on politics. If they are unhappy about a tax increase, policy will be to cut spending.
It hasn't happened yet and the rich have owned our political system for 200 years.
And they pay drastically less in taxes. Tax cuts fuel big gov.
Even when the rich paid 70% the government never cut spending.

If you give the government more revenue they will simply spend that too.

In reality the government doesn't care how much revenue they take in they will spend more every year no matter what.
Yet we didn’t have a deficit problem back then . Deficit problems started with Reagan who cut taxes...
We've been running deficits almost every year since 1929
And they weren’t a large percent of gdp till the 80s. Obviously small deficits are not a big problem.
It's all cumulative.

We are still paying for the deficits from 1929.

And why don;t you show me where government has ever actually cut spending in all that time? There is absolutely no reason to think that government will ever cut spending even if taxes are raised.
The first Bush raised taxes and then spending cuts lead to lower deficits during Clinton.
So what if deficits were lower? Overall spending increased and Clinton left a larger debt than he inherited.

And don't try to minimize the effects of the tech bubble on revenues either.

Clinton just got lucky that that particular bubble didn't burst on his watch
Deficits declined, that’s a big deal. By comparison they increased with Reagan, bushes, Trump... if they always declined debt would shrink as a percent of gdp
it doesn't really matter as the debt still grew so IOW Clinton still spent more than government revenue.

You said increased taxes lead to spending cuts and they don't. All increased revenue does is give corrupt politicians more to spend and spend they will.
You are lying to yourself. Decreasing deficits matter. You just aren’t fiscally responsible.
But they don't all that matters is the increasing debt.

And like I said Clinton didn't decrease spending he benefited from the tech bubble and the additional tax revenues it brought in and he was just lucky enough that that bubble didn't burst until right after he left office.

You need to look at the whole picture not just the parts you cherry pick
Debt increases a lot faster with increasing deficits. Had we maintained low deficits after Clinton the debt would be a fraction of what it is now. Your arguments are bad math...

The reason why debt increases with deficits is because that deficit is added to the debt every year.

That is the amount of money we have to borrow to pay for all the spending.

That is accounting and economics 101.
which means stop spending. logic 101
But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
sure why not? we take more than we spend on military. again, revenue is spent. the issue is over spending what one doesn't have. fk dude, stop post such stupid shit you can't defend.

facts

Federal Tax Revenue by Source, 1934 - 2018 | Tax Foundation


Fiscal YearIndividual Income TaxesCorporate Income TaxesSocial Insurance and Retirement ReceiptsExcise TaxesOtherTotal
1934$ 420.00$ 364.00$ 30.00$ 1,354.00$ 788.00$ 2,955.00
1935$ 527.00$ 529.00$ 31.00$ 1,439.00$ 1,084.00$ 3,609.00
1936$ 674.00$ 719.00$ 52.00$ 1,631.00$ 847.00$ 3,923.00
1937$ 1,092.00$ 1,038.00$ 580.00$ 1,876.00$ 801.00$ 5,387.00
1938$ 1,286.00$ 1,287.00$ 1,541.00$ 1,863.00$ 773.00$ 6,751.00
1939$ 1,029.00$ 1,127.00$ 1,593.00$ 1,871.00$ 675.00$ 6,295.00
1940$ 892.00$ 1,197.00$ 1,785.00$ 1,977.00$ 698.00$ 6,548.00
1941$ 1,314.00$ 2,124.00$ 1,940.00$ 2,552.00$ 781.00$ 8,712.00
1942$ 3,263.00$ 4,719.00$ 2,452.00$ 3,399.00$ 801.00$ 14,634.00
1943$ 6,505.00$ 9,557.00$ 3,044.00$ 4,096.00$ 800.00$ 24,001.00
1944$ 19,705.00$ 14,838.00$ 3,473.00$ 4,759.00$ 972.00$ 43,747.00
1945$ 18,372.00$ 15,988.00$ 3,451.00$ 6,265.00$ 1,083.00$ 45,159.00
1946$ 16,098.00$ 11,883.00$ 3,115.00$ 6,998.00$ 1,202.00$ 39,296.00
1947$ 17,935.00$ 8,615.00$ 3,422.00$ 7,211.00$ 1,331.00$ 38,514.00
1948$ 19,315.00$ 9,678.00$ 3,751.00$ 7,356.00$ 1,461.00$ 41,560.00
1949$ 15,552.00$ 11,192.00$ 3,781.00$ 7,502.00$ 1,388.00$ 39,415.00
1950$ 15,755.00$ 10,449.00$ 4,338.00$ 7,550.00$ 1,351.00$ 39,443.00
1951$ 21,616.00$ 14,101.00$ 5,674.00$ 8,648.00$ 1,578.00$ 51,616.00
1952$ 27,934.00$ 21,226.00$ 6,445.00$ 8,852.00$ 1,710.00$ 66,167.00
1953$ 29,816.00$ 21,238.00$ 6,820.00$ 9,877.00$ 1,857.00$ 69,608.00
1954$ 29,542.00$ 21,101.00$ 7,208.00$ 9,945.00$ 1,905.00$ 69,701.00
1955$ 28,747.00$ 17,861.00$ 7,862.00$ 9,131.00$ 1,850.00$ 65,451.00
1956$ 32,188.00$ 20,880.00$ 9,320.00$ 9,929.00$ 2,270.00$ 74,587.00
1957$ 35,620.00$ 21,167.00$ 9,997.00$ 10,534.00$ 2,672.00$ 79,990.00
1958$ 34,724.00$ 20,074.00$ 11,239.00$ 10,638.00$ 2,961.00$ 79,636.00
1959$ 36,719.00$ 17,309.00$ 11,722.00$ 10,578.00$ 2,921.00$ 79,249.00
1960$ 40,715.00$ 21,494.00$ 14,683.00$ 11,676.00$ 3,923.00$ 92,492.00
1961$ 41,338.00$ 20,954.00$ 16,439.00$ 11,860.00$ 3,796.00$ 94,388.00
1962$ 45,571.00$ 20,523.00$ 17,046.00$ 12,534.00$ 4,001.00$ 99,676.00
1963$ 47,588.00$ 21,579.00$ 19,804.00$ 13,194.00$ 4,395.00$ 106,560.00
1964$ 48,697.00$ 23,493.00$ 21,963.00$ 13,731.00$ 4,731.00$ 112,613.00
1965$ 48,792.00$ 25,461.00$ 22,242.00$ 14,570.00$ 5,753.00$ 116,817.00
1966$ 55,446.00$ 30,073.00$ 25,546.00$ 13,062.00$ 6,708.00$ 130,835.00
1967$ 61,526.00$ 33,971.00$ 32,619.00$ 13,719.00$ 6,987.00$ 148,822.00
1968$ 68,726.00$ 28,665.00$ 33,923.00$ 14,079.00$ 7,580.00$ 152,973.00
1969$ 87,249.00$ 36,678.00$ 39,015.00$ 15,222.00$ 8,718.00$ 186,882.00
1970$ 90,412.00$ 32,829.00$ 44,362.00$ 15,705.00$ 9,499.00$ 192,807.00
1971$ 86,230.00$ 26,785.00$ 47,325.00$ 16,614.00$ 10,185.00$ 187,139.00
1972$ 94,737.00$ 32,166.00$ 52,574.00$ 15,477.00$ 12,355.00$ 207,309.00
1973$ 103,246.00$ 36,153.00$ 63,115.00$ 16,260.00$ 12,026.00$ 230,799.00
1974$ 118,952.00$ 38,620.00$ 75,071.00$ 16,844.00$ 13,737.00$ 263,224.00
1975$ 122,386.00$ 40,621.00$ 84,534.00$ 16,551.00$ 14,998.00$ 279,090.00
1976$ 131,603.00$ 41,409.00$ 90,769.00$ 16,963.00$ 17,317.00$ 298,060.00
TQ$ 38,801.00$ 8,460.00$ 25,219.00$ 4,473.00$ 4,279.00$ 81,232.00
1977$ 157,626.00$ 54,892.00$ 106,485.00$ 17,548.00$ 19,008.00$ 355,559.00
1978$ 180,988.00$ 59,952.00$ 120,967.00$ 18,376.00$ 19,278.00$ 399,561.00
1979$ 217,841.00$ 65,677.00$ 138,939.00$ 18,745.00$ 22,101.00$ 463,302.00
1980$ 244,069.00$ 64,600.00$ 157,803.00$ 24,329.00$ 26,311.00$ 517,112.00
1981$ 285,917.00$ 61,137.00$ 182,720.00$ 40,839.00$ 28,659.00$ 599,272.00
1982$ 297,744.00$ 49,207.00$ 201,498.00$ 36,311.00$ 33,006.00$ 617,766.00
1983$ 288,938.00$ 37,022.00$ 208,994.00$ 35,300.00$ 30,309.00$ 600,562.00
1984$ 298,415.00$ 56,893.00$ 239,376.00$ 37,361.00$ 34,392.00$ 666,438.00
1985$ 334,531.00$ 61,331.00$ 265,163.00$ 35,992.00$ 37,020.00$ 734,037.00
1986$ 348,959.00$ 63,143.00$ 283,901.00$ 32,919.00$ 40,233.00$ 769,155.00
1987$ 392,557.00$ 83,926.00$ 303,318.00$ 32,457.00$ 42,029.00$ 854,288.00
1988$ 401,181.00$ 94,508.00$ 334,335.00$ 35,227.00$ 43,987.00$ 909,238.00
1989$ 445,690.00$103,291.00$ 359,416.00$ 34,386.00$ 48,321.00$ 991,105.00
1990$ 466,884.00$ 93,507.00$ 380,047.00$ 35,345.00$ 56,174.00$1,031,958.00
1991$ 467,827.00$ 98,086.00$ 396,016.00$ 42,402.00$ 50,657.00$1,054,988.00
1992$ 475,964.00$100,270.00$ 413,689.00$ 45,569.00$ 55,717.00$1,091,208.00
1993$ 509,680.00$117,520.00$ 428,300.00$ 48,057.00$ 50,778.00$1,154,335.00
1994$ 543,055.00$140,385.00$ 461,475.00$ 55,225.00$ 58,427.00$1,258,566.00
1995$ 590,244.00$157,004.00$ 484,473.00$ 57,484.00$ 62,585.00$1,351,790.00
1996$ 656,417.00$171,824.00$ 509,414.00$ 54,014.00$ 61,384.00$1,453,053.00
1997$ 737,466.00$182,293.00$ 539,371.00$ 56,924.00$ 63,178.00$1,579,232.00
1998$ 828,586.00$188,677.00$ 571,831.00$ 57,673.00$ 74,961.00$1,721,728.00
1999$ 879,480.00$184,680.00$ 611,833.00$ 70,414.00$ 81,045.00$1,827,452.00
2000$1,004,462.00$207,289.00$ 652,852.00$ 68,865.00$ 91,723.00$2,025,191.00
2001$ 994,339.00$151,075.00$ 693,967.00$ 66,232.00$ 85,469.00$1,991,082.00
2002$ 858,345.00$148,044.00$ 700,760.00$ 66,989.00$ 78,998.00$1,853,136.00
2003$ 793,699.00$131,778.00$ 712,978.00$ 67,524.00$ 76,335.00$1,782,314.00
2004$ 808,959.00$189,371.00$ 733,407.00$ 69,855.00$ 78,522.00$1,880,114.00
2005$ 927,222.00$278,282.00$ 794,125.00$ 73,094.00$ 80,888.00$2,153,611.00
2006$1,043,908.00$353,915.00$ 837,821.00$ 73,961.00$ 97,264.00$2,406,869.00
2007$1,163,472.00$370,243.00$ 869,607.00$ 65,069.00$ 99,594.00$2,567,985.00
2008$1,145,747.00$304,346.00$ 900,155.00$ 67,334.00$106,409.00$2,523,991.00
2009$ 915,308.00$138,229.00$ 890,917.00$ 62,483.00$ 98,052.00$2,104,989.00
2010$ 898,549.00$191,437.00$ 864,814.00$ 66,909.00$140,997.00$2,162,706.00
2011$1,091,473.00$181,085.00$ 818,792.00$ 72,381.00$139,735.00$2,303,466.00
2012$1,132,206.00$242,289.00$ 845,314.00$ 79,061.00$151,294.00$2,450,164.00
2013 estimate$1,234,012.00$287,716.00$ 951,093.00$ 85,346.00$153,878.00$2,712,045.00
2014 estimate$1,383,172.00$332,819.00$1,030,655.00$104,949.00$182,023.00$3,033,618.00
2015 estimate$1,551,774.00$376,091.00$1,084,566.00$113,939.00$205,315.00$3,331,685.00
2016 estimate$1,700,022.00$401,324.00$1,160,286.00$114,806.00$185,013.00$3,561,451.00
2017 estimate$1,843,569.00$430,148.00$1,218,321.00$118,237.00$150,267.00$3,760,542.00
2018 estimate$1,977,142.00$450,377.00$1,280,054.00$125,092.00$141,309.00$3,973,974.00
Right,
You don’t care about debt.
the fk I don't. cut spending. still my position. I just showed you that cutting taxes brings in more revenue. so shut the fk up.
You showed revenue increases every year. Duh . It’s the rate of increase that matters.
based off what?
 

Brain357

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
Why is it always increase taxes rather than cut spending? If we cut out all the frivolous spending, we wouldn't need to keep raising taxes.

Also, its impossible to pay off the debt as there is more money owed than there is in existence. Every dollar borrowed is borrowed with interest, even if you gave back every dollar that was ever borrowed, you'd still owe the interest, which can only be paid by borrowing more money.

Its an endless cycle that can only be slowed by decreasing the rate of spending.
Because nobody cares about debt without a tax increase. Remember the tea party? They complained and complained about debt until they got tax cuts and then they disappeared. Meanwhile deficits increased drastically. The only way spending cuts will happen is if we get a tax increase and make people care about debt. Nobody cares about debt, they care about taxes.
But, the problem with that is, if we get into this idea that, hey, if we need more money, then we can just raise taxes. It gives no incentive to reduce spending if government thinks they can keep raising taxes to cover spending.

You have to cut spending because there is a limit to how much you can tax the people. At some point, people will be giving more money to the government than they keep for themselves....we're almost already there.

People in general don't care, and don't even think about the debt, they think about how much money they have in their paychecks. Most people don't even realize what the government is using all of their money for, they just take it for granted that "when payday comes, the government gets their cut and I get mine".

When you raise taxes, government doesn't say "oh hey, we have more money, let's do something so we can lower taxes later", they say "hey, we have more money now, so we can spend more" or, often, "we have to raise taxes to cover what we've already spent".

The debt ceiling keeps going up and up, every year it seems like we run into the debt ceiling and they keep raising it. That represents money that has to be paid back to someone, with interest. If you keep incurring debt, you can't make the payments if you never increase taxes. This is why I think we need to focus on spending cuts. We have to get spending under control so we can maybe someday lower taxes.

I'm no economist, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night......and I also realize that if you keep borrowing more money, you have to keep increasing your taxes to cover that borrowing.
Tax payers will only pay so much before anger.
Most tax payers have no clue what they actually pay in taxes.
They know how much their paychecks are. When a tax increase cuts pay, they will not be happy. Everyone loves their freebies now. The right loves military spending cause they have never paid for it. The left loves big gov cause they don’t pay for it. Everybody hates taxes...
All they know is the net.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much they pay in taxes besides no one is talking about raising taxes on most working people
Don’t underestimate the rich influence on politics. If they are unhappy about a tax increase, policy will be to cut spending.
It hasn't happened yet and the rich have owned our political system for 200 years.
And they pay drastically less in taxes. Tax cuts fuel big gov.
Even when the rich paid 70% the government never cut spending.

If you give the government more revenue they will simply spend that too.

In reality the government doesn't care how much revenue they take in they will spend more every year no matter what.
Yet we didn’t have a deficit problem back then . Deficit problems started with Reagan who cut taxes...
We've been running deficits almost every year since 1929
And they weren’t a large percent of gdp till the 80s. Obviously small deficits are not a big problem.
It's all cumulative.

We are still paying for the deficits from 1929.

And why don;t you show me where government has ever actually cut spending in all that time? There is absolutely no reason to think that government will ever cut spending even if taxes are raised.
The first Bush raised taxes and then spending cuts lead to lower deficits during Clinton.
So what if deficits were lower? Overall spending increased and Clinton left a larger debt than he inherited.

And don't try to minimize the effects of the tech bubble on revenues either.

Clinton just got lucky that that particular bubble didn't burst on his watch
Deficits declined, that’s a big deal. By comparison they increased with Reagan, bushes, Trump... if they always declined debt would shrink as a percent of gdp
it doesn't really matter as the debt still grew so IOW Clinton still spent more than government revenue.

You said increased taxes lead to spending cuts and they don't. All increased revenue does is give corrupt politicians more to spend and spend they will.
You are lying to yourself. Decreasing deficits matter. You just aren’t fiscally responsible.
But they don't all that matters is the increasing debt.

And like I said Clinton didn't decrease spending he benefited from the tech bubble and the additional tax revenues it brought in and he was just lucky enough that that bubble didn't burst until right after he left office.

You need to look at the whole picture not just the parts you cherry pick
Debt increases a lot faster with increasing deficits. Had we maintained low deficits after Clinton the debt would be a fraction of what it is now. Your arguments are bad math...

The reason why debt increases with deficits is because that deficit is added to the debt every year.

That is the amount of money we have to borrow to pay for all the spending.

That is accounting and economics 101.
which means stop spending. logic 101
But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
sure why not? we take more than we spend on military. again, revenue is spent. the issue is over spending what one doesn't have. fk dude, stop post such stupid shit you can't defend.

facts

Federal Tax Revenue by Source, 1934 - 2018 | Tax Foundation


Fiscal YearIndividual Income TaxesCorporate Income TaxesSocial Insurance and Retirement ReceiptsExcise TaxesOtherTotal
1934$ 420.00$ 364.00$ 30.00$ 1,354.00$ 788.00$ 2,955.00
1935$ 527.00$ 529.00$ 31.00$ 1,439.00$ 1,084.00$ 3,609.00
1936$ 674.00$ 719.00$ 52.00$ 1,631.00$ 847.00$ 3,923.00
1937$ 1,092.00$ 1,038.00$ 580.00$ 1,876.00$ 801.00$ 5,387.00
1938$ 1,286.00$ 1,287.00$ 1,541.00$ 1,863.00$ 773.00$ 6,751.00
1939$ 1,029.00$ 1,127.00$ 1,593.00$ 1,871.00$ 675.00$ 6,295.00
1940$ 892.00$ 1,197.00$ 1,785.00$ 1,977.00$ 698.00$ 6,548.00
1941$ 1,314.00$ 2,124.00$ 1,940.00$ 2,552.00$ 781.00$ 8,712.00
1942$ 3,263.00$ 4,719.00$ 2,452.00$ 3,399.00$ 801.00$ 14,634.00
1943$ 6,505.00$ 9,557.00$ 3,044.00$ 4,096.00$ 800.00$ 24,001.00
1944$ 19,705.00$ 14,838.00$ 3,473.00$ 4,759.00$ 972.00$ 43,747.00
1945$ 18,372.00$ 15,988.00$ 3,451.00$ 6,265.00$ 1,083.00$ 45,159.00
1946$ 16,098.00$ 11,883.00$ 3,115.00$ 6,998.00$ 1,202.00$ 39,296.00
1947$ 17,935.00$ 8,615.00$ 3,422.00$ 7,211.00$ 1,331.00$ 38,514.00
1948$ 19,315.00$ 9,678.00$ 3,751.00$ 7,356.00$ 1,461.00$ 41,560.00
1949$ 15,552.00$ 11,192.00$ 3,781.00$ 7,502.00$ 1,388.00$ 39,415.00
1950$ 15,755.00$ 10,449.00$ 4,338.00$ 7,550.00$ 1,351.00$ 39,443.00
1951$ 21,616.00$ 14,101.00$ 5,674.00$ 8,648.00$ 1,578.00$ 51,616.00
1952$ 27,934.00$ 21,226.00$ 6,445.00$ 8,852.00$ 1,710.00$ 66,167.00
1953$ 29,816.00$ 21,238.00$ 6,820.00$ 9,877.00$ 1,857.00$ 69,608.00
1954$ 29,542.00$ 21,101.00$ 7,208.00$ 9,945.00$ 1,905.00$ 69,701.00
1955$ 28,747.00$ 17,861.00$ 7,862.00$ 9,131.00$ 1,850.00$ 65,451.00
1956$ 32,188.00$ 20,880.00$ 9,320.00$ 9,929.00$ 2,270.00$ 74,587.00
1957$ 35,620.00$ 21,167.00$ 9,997.00$ 10,534.00$ 2,672.00$ 79,990.00
1958$ 34,724.00$ 20,074.00$ 11,239.00$ 10,638.00$ 2,961.00$ 79,636.00
1959$ 36,719.00$ 17,309.00$ 11,722.00$ 10,578.00$ 2,921.00$ 79,249.00
1960$ 40,715.00$ 21,494.00$ 14,683.00$ 11,676.00$ 3,923.00$ 92,492.00
1961$ 41,338.00$ 20,954.00$ 16,439.00$ 11,860.00$ 3,796.00$ 94,388.00
1962$ 45,571.00$ 20,523.00$ 17,046.00$ 12,534.00$ 4,001.00$ 99,676.00
1963$ 47,588.00$ 21,579.00$ 19,804.00$ 13,194.00$ 4,395.00$ 106,560.00
1964$ 48,697.00$ 23,493.00$ 21,963.00$ 13,731.00$ 4,731.00$ 112,613.00
1965$ 48,792.00$ 25,461.00$ 22,242.00$ 14,570.00$ 5,753.00$ 116,817.00
1966$ 55,446.00$ 30,073.00$ 25,546.00$ 13,062.00$ 6,708.00$ 130,835.00
1967$ 61,526.00$ 33,971.00$ 32,619.00$ 13,719.00$ 6,987.00$ 148,822.00
1968$ 68,726.00$ 28,665.00$ 33,923.00$ 14,079.00$ 7,580.00$ 152,973.00
1969$ 87,249.00$ 36,678.00$ 39,015.00$ 15,222.00$ 8,718.00$ 186,882.00
1970$ 90,412.00$ 32,829.00$ 44,362.00$ 15,705.00$ 9,499.00$ 192,807.00
1971$ 86,230.00$ 26,785.00$ 47,325.00$ 16,614.00$ 10,185.00$ 187,139.00
1972$ 94,737.00$ 32,166.00$ 52,574.00$ 15,477.00$ 12,355.00$ 207,309.00
1973$ 103,246.00$ 36,153.00$ 63,115.00$ 16,260.00$ 12,026.00$ 230,799.00
1974$ 118,952.00$ 38,620.00$ 75,071.00$ 16,844.00$ 13,737.00$ 263,224.00
1975$ 122,386.00$ 40,621.00$ 84,534.00$ 16,551.00$ 14,998.00$ 279,090.00
1976$ 131,603.00$ 41,409.00$ 90,769.00$ 16,963.00$ 17,317.00$ 298,060.00
TQ$ 38,801.00$ 8,460.00$ 25,219.00$ 4,473.00$ 4,279.00$ 81,232.00
1977$ 157,626.00$ 54,892.00$ 106,485.00$ 17,548.00$ 19,008.00$ 355,559.00
1978$ 180,988.00$ 59,952.00$ 120,967.00$ 18,376.00$ 19,278.00$ 399,561.00
1979$ 217,841.00$ 65,677.00$ 138,939.00$ 18,745.00$ 22,101.00$ 463,302.00
1980$ 244,069.00$ 64,600.00$ 157,803.00$ 24,329.00$ 26,311.00$ 517,112.00
1981$ 285,917.00$ 61,137.00$ 182,720.00$ 40,839.00$ 28,659.00$ 599,272.00
1982$ 297,744.00$ 49,207.00$ 201,498.00$ 36,311.00$ 33,006.00$ 617,766.00
1983$ 288,938.00$ 37,022.00$ 208,994.00$ 35,300.00$ 30,309.00$ 600,562.00
1984$ 298,415.00$ 56,893.00$ 239,376.00$ 37,361.00$ 34,392.00$ 666,438.00
1985$ 334,531.00$ 61,331.00$ 265,163.00$ 35,992.00$ 37,020.00$ 734,037.00
1986$ 348,959.00$ 63,143.00$ 283,901.00$ 32,919.00$ 40,233.00$ 769,155.00
1987$ 392,557.00$ 83,926.00$ 303,318.00$ 32,457.00$ 42,029.00$ 854,288.00
1988$ 401,181.00$ 94,508.00$ 334,335.00$ 35,227.00$ 43,987.00$ 909,238.00
1989$ 445,690.00$103,291.00$ 359,416.00$ 34,386.00$ 48,321.00$ 991,105.00
1990$ 466,884.00$ 93,507.00$ 380,047.00$ 35,345.00$ 56,174.00$1,031,958.00
1991$ 467,827.00$ 98,086.00$ 396,016.00$ 42,402.00$ 50,657.00$1,054,988.00
1992$ 475,964.00$100,270.00$ 413,689.00$ 45,569.00$ 55,717.00$1,091,208.00
1993$ 509,680.00$117,520.00$ 428,300.00$ 48,057.00$ 50,778.00$1,154,335.00
1994$ 543,055.00$140,385.00$ 461,475.00$ 55,225.00$ 58,427.00$1,258,566.00
1995$ 590,244.00$157,004.00$ 484,473.00$ 57,484.00$ 62,585.00$1,351,790.00
1996$ 656,417.00$171,824.00$ 509,414.00$ 54,014.00$ 61,384.00$1,453,053.00
1997$ 737,466.00$182,293.00$ 539,371.00$ 56,924.00$ 63,178.00$1,579,232.00
1998$ 828,586.00$188,677.00$ 571,831.00$ 57,673.00$ 74,961.00$1,721,728.00
1999$ 879,480.00$184,680.00$ 611,833.00$ 70,414.00$ 81,045.00$1,827,452.00
2000$1,004,462.00$207,289.00$ 652,852.00$ 68,865.00$ 91,723.00$2,025,191.00
2001$ 994,339.00$151,075.00$ 693,967.00$ 66,232.00$ 85,469.00$1,991,082.00
2002$ 858,345.00$148,044.00$ 700,760.00$ 66,989.00$ 78,998.00$1,853,136.00
2003$ 793,699.00$131,778.00$ 712,978.00$ 67,524.00$ 76,335.00$1,782,314.00
2004$ 808,959.00$189,371.00$ 733,407.00$ 69,855.00$ 78,522.00$1,880,114.00
2005$ 927,222.00$278,282.00$ 794,125.00$ 73,094.00$ 80,888.00$2,153,611.00
2006$1,043,908.00$353,915.00$ 837,821.00$ 73,961.00$ 97,264.00$2,406,869.00
2007$1,163,472.00$370,243.00$ 869,607.00$ 65,069.00$ 99,594.00$2,567,985.00
2008$1,145,747.00$304,346.00$ 900,155.00$ 67,334.00$106,409.00$2,523,991.00
2009$ 915,308.00$138,229.00$ 890,917.00$ 62,483.00$ 98,052.00$2,104,989.00
2010$ 898,549.00$191,437.00$ 864,814.00$ 66,909.00$140,997.00$2,162,706.00
2011$1,091,473.00$181,085.00$ 818,792.00$ 72,381.00$139,735.00$2,303,466.00
2012$1,132,206.00$242,289.00$ 845,314.00$ 79,061.00$151,294.00$2,450,164.00
2013 estimate$1,234,012.00$287,716.00$ 951,093.00$ 85,346.00$153,878.00$2,712,045.00
2014 estimate$1,383,172.00$332,819.00$1,030,655.00$104,949.00$182,023.00$3,033,618.00
2015 estimate$1,551,774.00$376,091.00$1,084,566.00$113,939.00$205,315.00$3,331,685.00
2016 estimate$1,700,022.00$401,324.00$1,160,286.00$114,806.00$185,013.00$3,561,451.00
2017 estimate$1,843,569.00$430,148.00$1,218,321.00$118,237.00$150,267.00$3,760,542.00
2018 estimate$1,977,142.00$450,377.00$1,280,054.00$125,092.00$141,309.00$3,973,974.00
Right,
You don’t care about debt.
the fk I don't. cut spending. still my position. I just showed you that cutting taxes brings in more revenue. so shut the fk up.
You showed revenue increases every year. Duh . It’s the rate of increase that matters.
based off what?
Do you even understand math?
 

jc456

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
Why is it always increase taxes rather than cut spending? If we cut out all the frivolous spending, we wouldn't need to keep raising taxes.

Also, its impossible to pay off the debt as there is more money owed than there is in existence. Every dollar borrowed is borrowed with interest, even if you gave back every dollar that was ever borrowed, you'd still owe the interest, which can only be paid by borrowing more money.

Its an endless cycle that can only be slowed by decreasing the rate of spending.
Because nobody cares about debt without a tax increase. Remember the tea party? They complained and complained about debt until they got tax cuts and then they disappeared. Meanwhile deficits increased drastically. The only way spending cuts will happen is if we get a tax increase and make people care about debt. Nobody cares about debt, they care about taxes.
But, the problem with that is, if we get into this idea that, hey, if we need more money, then we can just raise taxes. It gives no incentive to reduce spending if government thinks they can keep raising taxes to cover spending.

You have to cut spending because there is a limit to how much you can tax the people. At some point, people will be giving more money to the government than they keep for themselves....we're almost already there.

People in general don't care, and don't even think about the debt, they think about how much money they have in their paychecks. Most people don't even realize what the government is using all of their money for, they just take it for granted that "when payday comes, the government gets their cut and I get mine".

When you raise taxes, government doesn't say "oh hey, we have more money, let's do something so we can lower taxes later", they say "hey, we have more money now, so we can spend more" or, often, "we have to raise taxes to cover what we've already spent".

The debt ceiling keeps going up and up, every year it seems like we run into the debt ceiling and they keep raising it. That represents money that has to be paid back to someone, with interest. If you keep incurring debt, you can't make the payments if you never increase taxes. This is why I think we need to focus on spending cuts. We have to get spending under control so we can maybe someday lower taxes.

I'm no economist, but I did stay at a holiday Inn express last night......and I also realize that if you keep borrowing more money, you have to keep increasing your taxes to cover that borrowing.
Tax payers will only pay so much before anger.
Most tax payers have no clue what they actually pay in taxes.
They know how much their paychecks are. When a tax increase cuts pay, they will not be happy. Everyone loves their freebies now. The right loves military spending cause they have never paid for it. The left loves big gov cause they don’t pay for it. Everybody hates taxes...
All they know is the net.

Most people have absolutely no clue how much they pay in taxes besides no one is talking about raising taxes on most working people
Don’t underestimate the rich influence on politics. If they are unhappy about a tax increase, policy will be to cut spending.
It hasn't happened yet and the rich have owned our political system for 200 years.
And they pay drastically less in taxes. Tax cuts fuel big gov.
Even when the rich paid 70% the government never cut spending.

If you give the government more revenue they will simply spend that too.

In reality the government doesn't care how much revenue they take in they will spend more every year no matter what.
Yet we didn’t have a deficit problem back then . Deficit problems started with Reagan who cut taxes...
We've been running deficits almost every year since 1929
And they weren’t a large percent of gdp till the 80s. Obviously small deficits are not a big problem.
It's all cumulative.

We are still paying for the deficits from 1929.

And why don;t you show me where government has ever actually cut spending in all that time? There is absolutely no reason to think that government will ever cut spending even if taxes are raised.
The first Bush raised taxes and then spending cuts lead to lower deficits during Clinton.
So what if deficits were lower? Overall spending increased and Clinton left a larger debt than he inherited.

And don't try to minimize the effects of the tech bubble on revenues either.

Clinton just got lucky that that particular bubble didn't burst on his watch
Deficits declined, that’s a big deal. By comparison they increased with Reagan, bushes, Trump... if they always declined debt would shrink as a percent of gdp
it doesn't really matter as the debt still grew so IOW Clinton still spent more than government revenue.

You said increased taxes lead to spending cuts and they don't. All increased revenue does is give corrupt politicians more to spend and spend they will.
You are lying to yourself. Decreasing deficits matter. You just aren’t fiscally responsible.
But they don't all that matters is the increasing debt.

And like I said Clinton didn't decrease spending he benefited from the tech bubble and the additional tax revenues it brought in and he was just lucky enough that that bubble didn't burst until right after he left office.

You need to look at the whole picture not just the parts you cherry pick
Debt increases a lot faster with increasing deficits. Had we maintained low deficits after Clinton the debt would be a fraction of what it is now. Your arguments are bad math...

The reason why debt increases with deficits is because that deficit is added to the debt every year.

That is the amount of money we have to borrow to pay for all the spending.

That is accounting and economics 101.
which means stop spending. logic 101
But you love military spending, you put it on the credit card.
sure why not? we take more than we spend on military. again, revenue is spent. the issue is over spending what one doesn't have. fk dude, stop post such stupid shit you can't defend.

facts

Federal Tax Revenue by Source, 1934 - 2018 | Tax Foundation


Fiscal YearIndividual Income TaxesCorporate Income TaxesSocial Insurance and Retirement ReceiptsExcise TaxesOtherTotal
1934$ 420.00$ 364.00$ 30.00$ 1,354.00$ 788.00$ 2,955.00
1935$ 527.00$ 529.00$ 31.00$ 1,439.00$ 1,084.00$ 3,609.00
1936$ 674.00$ 719.00$ 52.00$ 1,631.00$ 847.00$ 3,923.00
1937$ 1,092.00$ 1,038.00$ 580.00$ 1,876.00$ 801.00$ 5,387.00
1938$ 1,286.00$ 1,287.00$ 1,541.00$ 1,863.00$ 773.00$ 6,751.00
1939$ 1,029.00$ 1,127.00$ 1,593.00$ 1,871.00$ 675.00$ 6,295.00
1940$ 892.00$ 1,197.00$ 1,785.00$ 1,977.00$ 698.00$ 6,548.00
1941$ 1,314.00$ 2,124.00$ 1,940.00$ 2,552.00$ 781.00$ 8,712.00
1942$ 3,263.00$ 4,719.00$ 2,452.00$ 3,399.00$ 801.00$ 14,634.00
1943$ 6,505.00$ 9,557.00$ 3,044.00$ 4,096.00$ 800.00$ 24,001.00
1944$ 19,705.00$ 14,838.00$ 3,473.00$ 4,759.00$ 972.00$ 43,747.00
1945$ 18,372.00$ 15,988.00$ 3,451.00$ 6,265.00$ 1,083.00$ 45,159.00
1946$ 16,098.00$ 11,883.00$ 3,115.00$ 6,998.00$ 1,202.00$ 39,296.00
1947$ 17,935.00$ 8,615.00$ 3,422.00$ 7,211.00$ 1,331.00$ 38,514.00
1948$ 19,315.00$ 9,678.00$ 3,751.00$ 7,356.00$ 1,461.00$ 41,560.00
1949$ 15,552.00$ 11,192.00$ 3,781.00$ 7,502.00$ 1,388.00$ 39,415.00
1950$ 15,755.00$ 10,449.00$ 4,338.00$ 7,550.00$ 1,351.00$ 39,443.00
1951$ 21,616.00$ 14,101.00$ 5,674.00$ 8,648.00$ 1,578.00$ 51,616.00
1952$ 27,934.00$ 21,226.00$ 6,445.00$ 8,852.00$ 1,710.00$ 66,167.00
1953$ 29,816.00$ 21,238.00$ 6,820.00$ 9,877.00$ 1,857.00$ 69,608.00
1954$ 29,542.00$ 21,101.00$ 7,208.00$ 9,945.00$ 1,905.00$ 69,701.00
1955$ 28,747.00$ 17,861.00$ 7,862.00$ 9,131.00$ 1,850.00$ 65,451.00
1956$ 32,188.00$ 20,880.00$ 9,320.00$ 9,929.00$ 2,270.00$ 74,587.00
1957$ 35,620.00$ 21,167.00$ 9,997.00$ 10,534.00$ 2,672.00$ 79,990.00
1958$ 34,724.00$ 20,074.00$ 11,239.00$ 10,638.00$ 2,961.00$ 79,636.00
1959$ 36,719.00$ 17,309.00$ 11,722.00$ 10,578.00$ 2,921.00$ 79,249.00
1960$ 40,715.00$ 21,494.00$ 14,683.00$ 11,676.00$ 3,923.00$ 92,492.00
1961$ 41,338.00$ 20,954.00$ 16,439.00$ 11,860.00$ 3,796.00$ 94,388.00
1962$ 45,571.00$ 20,523.00$ 17,046.00$ 12,534.00$ 4,001.00$ 99,676.00
1963$ 47,588.00$ 21,579.00$ 19,804.00$ 13,194.00$ 4,395.00$ 106,560.00
1964$ 48,697.00$ 23,493.00$ 21,963.00$ 13,731.00$ 4,731.00$ 112,613.00
1965$ 48,792.00$ 25,461.00$ 22,242.00$ 14,570.00$ 5,753.00$ 116,817.00
1966$ 55,446.00$ 30,073.00$ 25,546.00$ 13,062.00$ 6,708.00$ 130,835.00
1967$ 61,526.00$ 33,971.00$ 32,619.00$ 13,719.00$ 6,987.00$ 148,822.00
1968$ 68,726.00$ 28,665.00$ 33,923.00$ 14,079.00$ 7,580.00$ 152,973.00
1969$ 87,249.00$ 36,678.00$ 39,015.00$ 15,222.00$ 8,718.00$ 186,882.00
1970$ 90,412.00$ 32,829.00$ 44,362.00$ 15,705.00$ 9,499.00$ 192,807.00
1971$ 86,230.00$ 26,785.00$ 47,325.00$ 16,614.00$ 10,185.00$ 187,139.00
1972$ 94,737.00$ 32,166.00$ 52,574.00$ 15,477.00$ 12,355.00$ 207,309.00
1973$ 103,246.00$ 36,153.00$ 63,115.00$ 16,260.00$ 12,026.00$ 230,799.00
1974$ 118,952.00$ 38,620.00$ 75,071.00$ 16,844.00$ 13,737.00$ 263,224.00
1975$ 122,386.00$ 40,621.00$ 84,534.00$ 16,551.00$ 14,998.00$ 279,090.00
1976$ 131,603.00$ 41,409.00$ 90,769.00$ 16,963.00$ 17,317.00$ 298,060.00
TQ$ 38,801.00$ 8,460.00$ 25,219.00$ 4,473.00$ 4,279.00$ 81,232.00
1977$ 157,626.00$ 54,892.00$ 106,485.00$ 17,548.00$ 19,008.00$ 355,559.00
1978$ 180,988.00$ 59,952.00$ 120,967.00$ 18,376.00$ 19,278.00$ 399,561.00
1979$ 217,841.00$ 65,677.00$ 138,939.00$ 18,745.00$ 22,101.00$ 463,302.00
1980$ 244,069.00$ 64,600.00$ 157,803.00$ 24,329.00$ 26,311.00$ 517,112.00
1981$ 285,917.00$ 61,137.00$ 182,720.00$ 40,839.00$ 28,659.00$ 599,272.00
1982$ 297,744.00$ 49,207.00$ 201,498.00$ 36,311.00$ 33,006.00$ 617,766.00
1983$ 288,938.00$ 37,022.00$ 208,994.00$ 35,300.00$ 30,309.00$ 600,562.00
1984$ 298,415.00$ 56,893.00$ 239,376.00$ 37,361.00$ 34,392.00$ 666,438.00
1985$ 334,531.00$ 61,331.00$ 265,163.00$ 35,992.00$ 37,020.00$ 734,037.00
1986$ 348,959.00$ 63,143.00$ 283,901.00$ 32,919.00$ 40,233.00$ 769,155.00
1987$ 392,557.00$ 83,926.00$ 303,318.00$ 32,457.00$ 42,029.00$ 854,288.00
1988$ 401,181.00$ 94,508.00$ 334,335.00$ 35,227.00$ 43,987.00$ 909,238.00
1989$ 445,690.00$103,291.00$ 359,416.00$ 34,386.00$ 48,321.00$ 991,105.00
1990$ 466,884.00$ 93,507.00$ 380,047.00$ 35,345.00$ 56,174.00$1,031,958.00
1991$ 467,827.00$ 98,086.00$ 396,016.00$ 42,402.00$ 50,657.00$1,054,988.00
1992$ 475,964.00$100,270.00$ 413,689.00$ 45,569.00$ 55,717.00$1,091,208.00
1993$ 509,680.00$117,520.00$ 428,300.00$ 48,057.00$ 50,778.00$1,154,335.00
1994$ 543,055.00$140,385.00$ 461,475.00$ 55,225.00$ 58,427.00$1,258,566.00
1995$ 590,244.00$157,004.00$ 484,473.00$ 57,484.00$ 62,585.00$1,351,790.00
1996$ 656,417.00$171,824.00$ 509,414.00$ 54,014.00$ 61,384.00$1,453,053.00
1997$ 737,466.00$182,293.00$ 539,371.00$ 56,924.00$ 63,178.00$1,579,232.00
1998$ 828,586.00$188,677.00$ 571,831.00$ 57,673.00$ 74,961.00$1,721,728.00
1999$ 879,480.00$184,680.00$ 611,833.00$ 70,414.00$ 81,045.00$1,827,452.00
2000$1,004,462.00$207,289.00$ 652,852.00$ 68,865.00$ 91,723.00$2,025,191.00
2001$ 994,339.00$151,075.00$ 693,967.00$ 66,232.00$ 85,469.00$1,991,082.00
2002$ 858,345.00$148,044.00$ 700,760.00$ 66,989.00$ 78,998.00$1,853,136.00
2003$ 793,699.00$131,778.00$ 712,978.00$ 67,524.00$ 76,335.00$1,782,314.00
2004$ 808,959.00$189,371.00$ 733,407.00$ 69,855.00$ 78,522.00$1,880,114.00
2005$ 927,222.00$278,282.00$ 794,125.00$ 73,094.00$ 80,888.00$2,153,611.00
2006$1,043,908.00$353,915.00$ 837,821.00$ 73,961.00$ 97,264.00$2,406,869.00
2007$1,163,472.00$370,243.00$ 869,607.00$ 65,069.00$ 99,594.00$2,567,985.00
2008$1,145,747.00$304,346.00$ 900,155.00$ 67,334.00$106,409.00$2,523,991.00
2009$ 915,308.00$138,229.00$ 890,917.00$ 62,483.00$ 98,052.00$2,104,989.00
2010$ 898,549.00$191,437.00$ 864,814.00$ 66,909.00$140,997.00$2,162,706.00
2011$1,091,473.00$181,085.00$ 818,792.00$ 72,381.00$139,735.00$2,303,466.00
2012$1,132,206.00$242,289.00$ 845,314.00$ 79,061.00$151,294.00$2,450,164.00
2013 estimate$1,234,012.00$287,716.00$ 951,093.00$ 85,346.00$153,878.00$2,712,045.00
2014 estimate$1,383,172.00$332,819.00$1,030,655.00$104,949.00$182,023.00$3,033,618.00
2015 estimate$1,551,774.00$376,091.00$1,084,566.00$113,939.00$205,315.00$3,331,685.00
2016 estimate$1,700,022.00$401,324.00$1,160,286.00$114,806.00$185,013.00$3,561,451.00
2017 estimate$1,843,569.00$430,148.00$1,218,321.00$118,237.00$150,267.00$3,760,542.00
2018 estimate$1,977,142.00$450,377.00$1,280,054.00$125,092.00$141,309.00$3,973,974.00
Right,
You don’t care about debt.
the fk I don't. cut spending. still my position. I just showed you that cutting taxes brings in more revenue. so shut the fk up.
You showed revenue increases every year. Duh . It’s the rate of increase that matters.
based off what?
Do you even understand math?
Tell me if 2 + 2 =4?
 

georgephillip

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There are two types of property taxes that state and local govt levy, a personal property tax, ie cars, boats....real estate is on, well real estate. The tax rates vary state to state, and the value of the property being taxed is appraised by the Govt, then taxed. The rates are the same for all citizens in the State or locality. This tax like a sales is based on consumption of the taxed
However there is a huge discrepancy between what percentage of wealth is taxed between the haves and have-nots.

The Average American Pay Tax on Half of Their Wealth, Shouldn't Rich Americans? - CounterPunch.org

"Now let’s shift to the other end of the American wealth spectrum, to the poorest 50 percent of Americans.

"Taken as a group, the Federal Reserve calculates, these Americans own less real estate than America’s richest 1 percent, $3.85 trillion of taxable property compared to the $4.48 trillion-worth that the ultra-rich hold.

"But this $3.85 trillion in taxable property makes up most of the assets — 52 percent — that America’s poorer half holds.

"So we have a situation where America’s bottom half pays an annual wealth tax on over half its wealth and America’s top 1 percent pays no annual tax on almost 90 percent of its wealth."
 

georgephillip

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Income is not wealth.

It is typical of partisans to ignore the meanings of words in their propaganda.
Not sure how that distinction applies to my link.
Would you care to elaborate?
Do you see any reason why a property tax should not apply to stocks and bonds?


MARCH 2, 2021
The Average American Pay Tax on Half of Their Wealth, Shouldn’t Rich Americans?

"Might the United States, home to the world’s wealthiest people, sometime soon sport a tax on wealth?

"Media outlets the nation over have begun speculating on just that question.

"But many of these reflections are missing the point: The United States already has a wealth tax.

"We call this already existing levy the 'property tax,' and almost all Americans feel its pinch — with one exception.

"The rich.

"America’s current “wealth tax” only taxes the category of wealth that makes up the bulk of the net worth of average Americans.

"The financial assets that make up the bulk of wealthy people’s net worth — stocks and bonds, for instance — face no wealth tax."
 

LeftofLeft

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
Stop spending and running up deficits. Yes, Trump did it....as did Obama, as did Bush, as did Clinton. Democrats spent the last 4 years lambasting Trump. Here is their opportunity to fundamentally transform the spending and debt problems that plague US. My bet is they won't.
 

Crepitus

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Lizzy Cheekbones teamed up with Bernie "Please may I have another screwing over at the voting Booth" Sanders to propose a "wealth tax"

It's slated to be only 2% annual tax on wealth over $50MM, but why stop there?

Are CCPdemocrats aiming too low? I mean the Gate Trust alone must have $50 BILLION!!! Why aren't dems targeting that idle wealth?
Yes, they are setting their sights too low.
 

jc456

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There are two types of property taxes that state and local govt levy, a personal property tax, ie cars, boats....real estate is on, well real estate. The tax rates vary state to state, and the value of the property being taxed is appraised by the Govt, then taxed. The rates are the same for all citizens in the State or locality. This tax like a sales is based on consumption of the taxed
However there is a huge discrepancy between what percentage of wealth is taxed between the haves and have-nots.

The Average American Pay Tax on Half of Their Wealth, Shouldn't Rich Americans? - CounterPunch.org

"Now let’s shift to the other end of the American wealth spectrum, to the poorest 50 percent of Americans.

"Taken as a group, the Federal Reserve calculates, these Americans own less real estate than America’s richest 1 percent, $3.85 trillion of taxable property compared to the $4.48 trillion-worth that the ultra-rich hold.

"But this $3.85 trillion in taxable property makes up most of the assets — 52 percent — that America’s poorer half holds.

"So we have a situation where America’s bottom half pays an annual wealth tax on over half its wealth and America’s top 1 percent pays no annual tax on almost 90 percent of its wealth."
Show the math
 

georgephillip

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They don't. But that's not really the question. The question is, "Why did society decide to give them that money in the first place, and why should government overrule that decision?"
Markets, money, and corporations are creations of government. The distribution of income and wealth are not determined by an "invisible hand's" objective appraisal of each worker's and investor's marginal utility; they are determined by the politically constructed laws and institutions that structure economic activity in a society.

The solution is to restructure those laws and institutions so they don't provide billions to a few and poverty to many.

Sustainable Economies Law Center
 

JustAGuy1

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We will need to pay off debt somehow.
We need to stop spending---------making billionaires and politicians richer.
I would argue we need to stop cutting taxes and require a tax increase for any spending. We keep cutting taxes so nobody cares about debt. They will care when taxes increase.
I would argue that you should call Nancy and tell her to pull every cent of pork out of her "Covid Relief" bill,
 

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