We the People

[dblack]

Let's talk about what this phrase means. In particular, its common misappropriation as a call for majority rule.

 

[Arianrhod]

Were you under the impression that it means "only some of the people"?

 

[norwegen]

It should say "We the States." Though the Constitution, in great measure, sought to preserve the radical Whig polity that had already been the accepted statecraft of the American experience, it was the states, in the end, that ratified the instrument. It was more of a compact among states than a social compact.

 

[ScienceRocks]

It means serving the people and being elected by those people in order to do so...Otherwise, government would demand the people to serve it.

SSI, Nws, fda, epa, etc all serve the people through making life easier for us.

 

[dblack]

Were you under the impression that it means "only some of the people"?

Not at all. But if you believe it means only the majority of the people, then you apparently do.

We the People means all of the people, not just the majority. In particular, it holds society - the people - above the government. The founders used the phrase to emphasize that government serves the people, not the other way around.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is a preamble to the greatest system of Gov't ever created..................It studied the failures of pure Democratic rules of Greece and corrupt Senates of Rome................Blended a cocktail of all the forms to create a system of gov't never before really seen............and it worked until we didn't heed the warnings of the Founders.........

The corruption in our gov't are laid out well by the Founders................and it is exactly why we are in decline.

When the elected officials are tied to lobbyist and their own interests the system fails and they ignore We The People for their own gratification.................and thus the United States heads down the rabbit hole.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It should say "We the States." Though the Constitution, in great measure, sought to preserve the radical Whig polity that had already been the accepted statecraft of the American experience, it was the states, in the end, that ratified the instrument. It was more of a compact among states than a social compact.

Incorrect.

“We the People” created a Constitutional Republic, reflecting the wisdom and desire of the people to be subject solely to the rule of law – not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

“We the People” created a Constitution whose case law safeguards the protected liberties of the people, where those protected liberties are immune from attack by the states; rights paramount, inalienable, and protected from the capricious 'will of the majority.'

And “we the People” created a National government, forbidding the states from interfering with the relationship between the people and their National government – a government whose acts of Congress and rulings of the Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, binding on the states and local jurisdictions, subordinate to the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law.

 

[dblack]

It should say "We the States." Though the Constitution, in great measure, sought to preserve the radical Whig polity that had already been the accepted statecraft of the American experience, it was the states, in the end, that ratified the instrument. It was more of a compact among states than a social compact.

Incorrect.

“We the People” created a Constitutional Republic, reflecting the wisdom and desire of the people to be subject solely to the rule of law – not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

“We the People” created a Constitution whose case law safeguards the protected liberties of the people, where those protected liberties are immune from attack by the states; rights paramount, inalienable, and protected from the capricious 'will of the majority.'

And “we the People” created a National government, forbidding the states from interfering with the relationship between the people and their National government – a government whose acts of Congress and rulings of the Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, binding on the states and local jurisdictions, subordinate to the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law.

Well said C. I think your conception of "case law" gets a little wonky, but this is spot on.

 

[norwegen]

It should say "We the States." Though the Constitution, in great measure, sought to preserve the radical Whig polity that had already been the accepted statecraft of the American experience, it was the states, in the end, that ratified the instrument. It was more of a compact among states than a social compact.

Incorrect.

“We the People” created a Constitutional Republic, reflecting the wisdom and desire of the people to be subject solely to the rule of law – not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

“We the People” created a Constitution whose case law safeguards the protected liberties of the people, where those protected liberties are immune from attack by the states; rights paramount, inalienable, and protected from the capricious 'will of the majority.'

And “we the People” created a National government, forbidding the states from interfering with the relationship between the people and their National government – a government whose acts of Congress and rulings of the Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, binding on the states and local jurisdictions, subordinate to the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law.

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

It in no way says why my post is incorrect. The people did not ratify the Constitution. The states did.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Were you under the impression that it means "only some of the people"?

Not at all. But if you believe it means only the majority of the people, then you apparently do.

We the People means all of the people, not just the majority. In particular, it holds society - the people - above the government. The founders used the phrase to emphasize that government serves the people, not the other way around.

Also incorrect.

It means that the people and their government are one in the same, where the Constitution the people created invests in government the authority to act at the behest of the people through their elected representatives, consistent with a republican form of government.

 

[dblack]

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

Can you expound on the 'gerbil-up-my-butt' fallacy? I googled to no avail.

 

[norwegen]

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

Can you expound on the 'gerbil-up-my-butt' fallacy? I googled to no avail.

No.

 

[dblack]

Were you under the impression that it means "only some of the people"?

Not at all. But if you believe it means only the majority of the people, then you apparently do.

We the People means all of the people, not just the majority. In particular, it holds society - the people - above the government. The founders used the phrase to emphasize that government serves the people, not the other way around.

Also incorrect.

It means that the people and their government are one in the same, where the Constitution the people created invests in government the authority to act at the behest of the people through their elected representatives, consistent with a republican form of government.

Ahhh... there's the gotcha I was expecting. No, We the People establish a government to serve our needs. But the government isn't us. In particular the government isn't the ultimate expression of society's desires and values. It's a security service, hired to keep the peace so that we can conduct civilized interactions voluntarily.

That's the key hubris of the statist - the idea that the government IS the people. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[dblack]

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

Can you expound on the 'gerbil-up-my-butt' fallacy? I googled to no avail.

No.

Probably for the best.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It should say "We the States." Though the Constitution, in great measure, sought to preserve the radical Whig polity that had already been the accepted statecraft of the American experience, it was the states, in the end, that ratified the instrument. It was more of a compact among states than a social compact.

Incorrect.

“We the People” created a Constitutional Republic, reflecting the wisdom and desire of the people to be subject solely to the rule of law – not men, as men are incapable of ruling justly.

“We the People” created a Constitution whose case law safeguards the protected liberties of the people, where those protected liberties are immune from attack by the states; rights paramount, inalienable, and protected from the capricious 'will of the majority.'

And “we the People” created a National government, forbidding the states from interfering with the relationship between the people and their National government – a government whose acts of Congress and rulings of the Federal courts are the supreme law of the land, binding on the states and local jurisdictions, subordinate to the Constitution, its case law, and the rule of law.

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

It in no way says why my post is incorrect. The people did not ratify the Constitution. The states did.

At least you're consistent at being wrong:

'It might be objected that because the States ratified the Constitution, the people can delegate power only through the States or by acting in their capacities as citizens of particular States. See post, at 2-3. But in McCulloch v. Maryland, the Court set forth its authoritative rejection of this idea:

"The Convention which framed the constitution was indeed elected by the State legislatures. But the instrument . . . was submitted to the people. . . . It is true, they assembled in their several States--and where else should they have assembled? No political dreamer was ever wild enough to think of breaking down the lines which separate the States, and of compounding the American people into one common mass. Of consequence, when they act, they act in their States. But the measures they adopt do not, on that account, cease to be the measures of the people themselves, or become the measures of the State governments." 4 Wheat., at 403.

The political identity of the entire people of the Union is reinforced by the proposition...that...the National Government is and must be controlled by the people without collateral interference by the States. McCulloch affirmed this proposition as well, when the Court rejected the suggestion that States could interfere with federal powers.'

U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, 514 U.S. 779 (1995).

Consequently your post is in fact incorrect.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This fails as a gerbil-up-my-butt fallacy.

Can you expound on the 'gerbil-up-my-butt' fallacy? I googled to no avail.

This is why these thread are pointless – there's always a reactionary rightist who thinks the Articles of Confederation is still in place.

 

[Holos]

Let's talk about what this phrase means. In particular, its common misappropriation as a call for majority rule.

Okay.

We The People (in this special case I myself, because in my perspective you have failed) should initiate this discussion by including the entire paragraph in which the expression makes itsef relevant.

"WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Simply stated, We The People are (in effectivenness) and is (in expressivenness) the resolution and congregation of perfecting courses and forces of action sharing fundamental principles based on their union through recognition of prospecting and already established and safe guarding multiplicities and similarities.

 

[dblack]

Simply stated, We The People are (in effectivenness) and is (in expressivenness) the resolution and congregation of perfecting courses and forces of action sharing fundamental principles based on their union through recognition of prospecting and already established and safe guarding multiplicities and similarities.

No offense, but before you tackle "We the People", you might want to look up the phrase "Simply stated".

 

[Holos]

Simply stated, We The People are (in effectivenness) and is (in expressivenness) the resolution and congregation of perfecting courses and forces of action sharing fundamental principles based on their union through recognition of prospecting and already established and safe guarding multiplicities and similarities.

No offense, but before you tackle "We the People", you might want to look up the phrase "Simply stated".

If it is no offense where is the continuity to the topic? Would you like me to reword it? I am now aware that your simplicity is on another parameter than mine. I can lower or raise my standards accordingly. What would you prefer so that you can participate in the topic too?