We should have seen the writing on the wall ten years ago and got out then.

[Flopper]

If the object was to train the Afghans to combat the Taliban it was obvious years ago that was a pipe dream...$88 billion and 20 years later, the Afghan security forces are still no match for the Taliban

No, training the Afghans to combat the Taliban was not why went into Afghanistan. Our goal was to get Bin Laden, which we did, deny the terrorist a safe haven which we did, and seeking vengeance for 911 which we did. While we were there we developed a lot of objectives which had nothing to do with why we came to Afghanistan such as creating a pseudo-democratic government, training the Afghan military to protect the new government, establish equal rights for women, and bringing Afghanistan into the 21st century via educations and commerce. The problem with this these goals is they were our goals not the goals of the Afghan people. 90% of the population live on farms , villages, and towns. They support the militant Islamists believed in sharia law and have no use for the infidels who invaded their country.

In short we have should got out years ago and given the country back to the Talban or whoever wanted it. There was never any strong support for the national goverment.

 

[Persuader]

No, training the Afghans to combat the Taliban was not why went into Afghanistan. Our goal was to get Bin Laden, which we did, deny the terrorist a safe haven which we did, and seeking vengeance for 911 which we did. While we were there we developed a lot of objectives which had nothing to do with why we came to Afghanistan such as creating a pseudo-democratic government, training the Afghan military to protect the new government, establish equal rights for women, and bringing Afghanistan into the 21st century via educations and commerce. The problem with this these goals is they were our goals not the goals of the Afghan people. 90% of the population live on farms and small village and they support the militant Islamists believed in sharia law and have no use for the infidels who invaded their country..

In short we have should got out years ago and given the country back to Talban.

Well, you are at least half right and right on target regarding why we went there.

I disagree that we should have got out without finishing the job. You are right about us getting sidetracked into nation building also.

By finishing the job, I mean as I have pointed out that our goal should have been to totally defeat the Taliban and in order to have done that we would have had to go into the Tribal lands.

Which is what we should have done, also we should have allied with India who could have given us tremendous help in subjugating Afghanistan.

I do not buy all this b.s. about not offending Pakistan as in they supposedly were giving us a lot of help in the war on Terrorim. Need I mention they harbored bind laden?

I will give Obama a lot of credit for being willing to offend Pakistan by going after bin laden.

 

[idb]

What I want to know is why we must sacrifice our blood and treasure to enrich the war industry?

Why do you hate capitalism...comrade?

 

[Persuader]

Why do you hate capitalism...comrade?

He and his ilk hate America, have no concept of self defense being totally clueless regarding the threat of militant islam.

 

[Uncensored2008]

If the object was to train the Afghans to combat the Taliban it was obvious years ago that was a pipe dream...$88 billion and 20 years later, the Afghan security forces are still no match for the Taliban

Ten years ago the god of the Nazi party, Barack Obama was Furher.

So why didn't you?

Ah, because Obama didn't give a fuck. He hated America, but Afghanistan was utterly irrelevant.

 

[Flopper]

Well, you are at least half right and right on target regarding why we went there.

I disagree that we should have got out without finishing the job. You are right about us getting sidetracked into nation building also.

By finishing the job, I mean as I have pointed out that our goal should have been to totally defeat the Taliban and in order to have done that we would have had to go into the Tribal lands.

Which is what we should have done, also we should have allied with India who could have given us tremendous help in subjugating Afghanistan.

I do not buy all this b.s. about not offending Pakistan as in they supposedly were giving us a lot of help in the war on Terrorim. Need I mention they harbored bind laden?

I will give Obama a lot of credit for being willing to offend Pakistan by going after bin laden.

We could not defeat the Taliban, because the Taliban had the support of the people in most of the districts outside of the major cities. Even if the US stayed the course and put 50,000 troops back into Afghanistan and got the Talban leaders, there would be another militarist fundamentalist group rise up before we could leave. The reason is they are basically an Islamic fundamentalist society and unlike Iraq and other middle eastern nations, they don't have a strong secular society. As someone said, the Afghan military was fighting for US dollars and the Talban forces were fighting for Allah.

 

[Persuader]

We could not defeat the Taliban, because the Taliban had the support of the people in most of the districts outside of the major cities. Even if the US stayed the course and put 50,000 troops back into Afghanistan and got the Talban leaders, there would be another militarist fundamentalist group rise up before we could leave. The reason is they are basically an Islamic fundamentalist society and unlike Iraq and other middle eastern nations, they don't have a strong secular society. As someone said, the Afghan military was fighting for US dollars and the Talban forces were fighting for Allah.

Well there is a lot of truth in what you say but the fundamental reason we failed to defeat the Taliban is that we allowed them safe haven in the tribal lands....never allow your enemy to have a safe haven. We should have known that from past experience.

 

[skews13]

We should have never gone in. Maybe a couple special forces missions against Bin Laden, but no occupation of a whole nation. It's like we're retards who couldn't learn from Russia's past mistakes. We had the blueprint of what was going to happen. We went in blind without a realistic mission or end game.

We did go in with a SpecOps mission and accomplished it in 30 days. That was to Fast for Bush who at the time said he had a lot of political capital, and wasn't going to waste it. Remember?

 

[skews13]

We could not defeat the Taliban, because the Taliban had the support of the people in most of the districts outside of the major cities. Even if the US stayed the course and put 50,000 troops back into Afghanistan and got the Talban leaders, there would be another militarist fundamentalist group rise up before we could leave. The reason is they are basically an Islamic fundamentalist society and unlike Iraq and other middle eastern nations, they don't have a strong secular society. As someone said, the Afghan military was fighting for US dollars and the Talban forces were fighting for Allah.

Yep, not to mention the support of Pakistan right accross the border.

 

[whitehall]

George H.W. Bush showed us how to do it in Iraq in the first Gulf war and democrats and the media hated it. George W. Bush did a pretty good job in the 2nd gulf war but the CIA stabbed him in the back about WMD's. Democrats didn't want to win in Afghanistan anymore than LBJ wanted to win in Vietnam. Barry Hussein invited the parents of a traitor who abandoned his post to the White House and old Joe seemed content to slap a few female asses and be Hussein's lap dog. The media didn't seem to mind. Now the media is in a bind trying to blame Trump for the mess that sleepy Joe seems to be in and old Joe called in sick for the duration.

 

[Baron Von Murderpaws]

We should have left as soon as Osama bin Laden escaped into Pakistan

Don't you mean when Osama Biden Obama got into office?

 

[Crepitus]

I will only add that had Trump not proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan, it is unlikely the Biden Administration would have felt it had the political “cover” to finally get the hell out.

That's actually a pretty good point

 

[Flopper]

Well there is a lot of truth in what you say but the fundamental reason we failed to defeat the Taliban is that we allowed them safe haven in the tribal lands....never allow your enemy to have a safe haven. We should have known that from past experience.

IMHO, we established too many goals that had little to do with the reason we were there such as, setting up and protecting a new government that was corrupt and incompetent, seeding democratic principals, building an Afghan military, converting an Islamic educational system into a secular system, establishing equal rights, building trade, and dealing with the opium poppy harvest. Somewhere among all of this, getting the bad guys was no longer a priority.

This is typical in limited wars when you occupy a country, you neither win nor lose. You fight, you die, you spend tons of money, and then you go home and ask your self, what was that all about.

 

[Persuader]

IMHO, we established too many goals that had little to do with the reason we were there such as, setting up and protecting a new government that was corrupt and incompetent, seeding democratic principals, building an Afghan military, converting an Islamic educational system into a secular system, establishing equal rights, building trade, and dealing with the opium poppy harvest. Somewhere among all of this, getting the bad guys was no longer a priority.

This is typical in limited wars when you occupy a country, you neither win nor lose. You fight, you die, you spend tons of money, and then you go home and ask your self, what was that all about.

You are exactly right regarding all the nation building b.s. we got involved in. Just a huge waste of money and a misuse of our military personnel who should have stuck to hunting and killing the taliban.

Our casualty rate was low....still we might have been able to keep the taliban out by using fewer troops such as special forces along with more air power and lots of drones.

We occupied several countries after the end of WWII with no problems.

Occupying a muslim nation is more complex though and especially so when a lot of militant muslims live close by aka the tribal lands of Pakistan.

Allowing them safe haven in the tribal lands was our biggest mistake I am convinced.

Now admittedly I do not know how much we really needed Pakistan in the war on terrorism and of course the main reason we allowed the taliban safe haven in the tribal lands was to placate Pakistan.

Yet according to many reports I have read Pakistan played a double game--especially their intelligence agency.

Thus I think our need to placate Pakistan was over-rated.

Not to forget they also hosted Bin Laden.

What we really needed in Afghanistan was not a traditional military commander but someone more innovative and able to think outside the box....the type of people more associated with special ops.

Tommy Franks an Artillery General was probably our worst commander in Pakistan.

I think Trump listened to the Generals too much and he never had the best command structure in Afghanistan.

Also, though I have never even heard it mentioned as a possibilty of forming an alliance with India in regards to Afghanistan...it would have really pissed off Pakistan...the two countries being mortal enemies....However I think India would be a much better ally than Pakistan.....though as I said I really do not know all the facts of the conventional claim that Pakistan was essential to our war on terrorism....one thing for sure they gave us no help in Afghanistan and obviously gave a lot of help to the taliban.

 

[Persuader]

That's actually a pretty good point

The biden administration is totally fucked and will only get worse.

If we were going to get out Biden should have stuck to Trumps plan to do so ....if he was looking for 'cover' that would have given him the best.

Trump had a good plan to get out and if biden had not thrown it out....there would have been much less confusion and greater protection for our people and those who supported us.

In the coming days you will see lots of reports regarding how biden should have used Trumps plan.

Though I still do not think we should have gotten out.....Trump should not have advocated that.

The big question now: will the Taliban once again begin to invite in the Al-quada and other terrorist groups--I think that is a given.

Also China wants to get their people into Afghanistan which would be another problem.

 

[gtopa1]

Well, you are at least half right and right on target regarding why we went there.

I disagree that we should have got out without finishing the job. You are right about us getting sidetracked into nation building also.

By finishing the job, I mean as I have pointed out that our goal should have been to totally defeat the Taliban and in order to have done that we would have had to go into the Tribal lands.

Which is what we should have done, also we should have allied with India who could have given us tremendous help in subjugating Afghanistan.

I do not buy all this b.s. about not offending Pakistan as in they supposedly were giving us a lot of help in the war on Terrorim. Need I mention they harbored bind laden?

I will give Obama a lot of credit for being willing to offend Pakistan by going after bin laden.

biDen was against it. Wrong as usual.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

The biden administration is totally fucked and will only get worse.

If we were going to get out Biden should have stuck to Trumps plan to do so ....if he was looking for 'cover' that would have given him the best.

Trump had a good plan to get out and if biden had not thrown it out....there would have been much less confusion and greater protection for our people and those who supported us.

In the coming days you will see lots of reports regarding how biden should have used Trumps plan.

Though I still do not think we should have gotten out.....Trump should not have advocated that.

The big question now: will the Taliban once again begin to invite in the Al-quada and other terrorist groups--I think that is a given.

Also China wants to get their people into Afghanistan which would be another problem.

" China wants to get their people into Afghanistan which would be another problem."

Could be interesting. Last time China went into a place like that the Viets killed many of the invaders.

Sino-Vietnamese War, 1979

China sought to punish Vietnam, yet both sides claimed victory in the short but bloody war. On February 17, 1979, troops from the People’s Republic of

www.historynet.com

Greg

 

[NoNukes]

By the time they launch more attacks on the US, we will have democrat leadership saying that the US deserved those attacks due to the nation's systemic racism and invite more of them in as citizens.

Did the Taliban attack Russia when they left?

 

[surada]

If the object was to train the Afghans to combat the Taliban it was obvious years ago that was a pipe dream...$88 billion and 20 years later, the Afghan security forces are still no match for the Taliban

Its a very complicated situation. The warlords aren't the good guys either.

Who Is Responsible for the Taliban?

The roots of the Afghan civil war and the country's subsequent transformation into a safe-haven for the world's most destructive terror network began in the decades prior to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

 

[surada]

" China wants to get their people into Afghanistan which would be another problem."

Could be interesting. Last time China went into a place like that the Viets killed many of the invaders.

Sino-Vietnamese War, 1979

China sought to punish Vietnam, yet both sides claimed victory in the short but bloody war. On February 17, 1979, troops from the People’s Republic of

www.historynet.com

Greg

China has been in Afghanistan for many years. They built a new railroad, power plants and mining operations.