We should believe the Congress or the White House? Why?

[Polk]

And prior to the GOP being voted out, you believed every word from every one of their mouths, right?

To look at it your way.....we should assume everything is a lie

We damn well should.

Always, until proven otherwise. On each and every issue. It's called skepticism, and it's necessary and healthy. BUT it requires something you totally lack -- critical thinking.

Skepticism doesn't mean assuming everything is a lie. Skepticism is doubting the truth of a claim. That's not the same as asserting the claim is false.

 

[Polk]

1. Income is too low to pay for it. We have medicaid for that.

Medicaid only covers children, pregnant women, parents of eligible children, and people with disabilities.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I certainly did not make an untrue assumption.

Yes, you actually did. You said we have medicaid to take of people who cannot afford health insurance. That is an untrue assumption.
In Tennessee I have several friends who fall into the category you deny. They don't make enough money to afford health insurance and TennCare won't take them because they make too much money.

So your assumption was inccorrect.

And since I know these people personally, I know that they are not "squandering" money that could be used to purchase health insurance. They simply fall into a gap. A gap that I'd like to see filled.

I have a terrific health policy myself that my employer provides and I couldn't buy a pack a cigarrettes a day for the nominal amount my employer charges me for this cadillac plan. So I'd hate to lose that as a result of healthcare reform. But I also don't want to see my friends closed out. So I'm torn.
But to trying to oversimply the issue with common but untrue assumptions does a tremendous disservice to the public discourse on the issue.

 

[rightwinger]

Quote:
Or they simply are making an economic decision to spend that money on another good or service. Say, cigarettes and alcohol.
Or possibly even, the rent, utilities, food...extravegances like that

Its the rightwing tactic of blame the victim.

All those millions of uninsured could afford insurance if they didn't blow their money on cigarettes and alchohol.

And all welfare mothers drive Cadilacs and use their food stamps to buy Prime Steaks and Lobsters

 

[saveliberty]

I certainly did not make an untrue assumption.

Yes, you actually did. You said we have medicaid to take of people who cannot afford health insurance. That is an untrue assumption.
In Tennessee I have several friends who fall into the category you deny. They don't make enough money to afford health insurance and TennCare won't take them because they make too much money.

So your assumption was inccorrect.

And since I know these people personally, I know that they are not "squandering" money that could be used to purchase health insurance. They simply fall into a gap. A gap that I'd like to see filled.

I have a terrific health policy myself that my employer provides and I couldn't buy a pack a cigarrettes a day for the nominal amount my employer charges me for this cadillac plan. So I'd hate to lose that as a result of healthcare reform. But I also don't want to see my friends closed out. So I'm torn.
But to trying to oversimply the issue with common but untrue assumptions does a tremendous disservice to the public discourse on the issue.

It certainly is one category of people that are in this group. Your attempt to claim Medicaid is not there to take care of those who can't afford insurance is false. You turned right around and identified that very group in your definition. Oh, so it doesn't include everyone, it is a false statement on my part. What a crock. Further, I mentioned if it was not broad enough in its coverage, adjust it. It would be far better than creating a whole new system that will certainly hurt the 70+% who want to keep what they have.

You are basically supporting a plan that will teardown the entire system for the benefit of a small minority. One doomed to fail as it requires the government to be efficient, cut costs and deliver a product better than what private industry supplies. Never going to happen in health care coverage.

 

[nodoginnafight]

It certainly is one category of people that are in this group. Your attempt to claim Medicaid is not there to take care of those who can't afford insurance is false.

No it is not - Medicare doesn't come close to covering all the people who fall into this category. YOUR assumption that it does, was wrong.

You are basically supporting a plan that will teardown the entire system for the benefit of a small minority.

Documentation please. A link to substantiate this claim. Or is it YET ANOTHER false assumption?

 

[saveliberty]

It certainly is one category of people that are in this group. Your attempt to claim Medicaid is not there to take care of those who can't afford insurance is false.

No it is not - Medicare doesn't come close to covering all the people who fall into this category. YOUR assumption that it does, was wrong.

You are basically supporting a plan that will teardown the entire system for the benefit of a small minority.

Documentation please. A link to substantiate this claim. Or is it YET ANOTHER false assumption?

Why is documentation important? The Dems don't even want to put the thing online or allow us to read it first. Not my problem you can't connect the dots.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

White House blasts insurance sector report - Yahoo! News

These people have not told us the truth in years why would we suddenly start believeing them?

No.

But we shouldn't blindly accept statistics out of the Private Insurance Sector either. Being a vigilant and educated citizen means having a healthy amount of skepticism no matter who is in the White House or Congress.

 

[EriktheRed]

White House blasts insurance sector report - Yahoo! News

These people have not told us the truth in years why would we suddenly start believeing them?

No.

But we shouldn't blindly accept statistics out of the Private Insurance Sector either.

And here's a good reason why:

America’s Health Insurance Plans engaged PricewaterhouseCoopers to prepare a report that focused on four components of the Senate Finance Committee proposal:

· Insurance market reforms and consumer protections that would raise health insurance premiums for individuals and families if the reforms are not coupled with an effective coverage requirement.
· An excise tax on employer-sponsored high value health plans.
· Cuts in payment rates in public programs that could increase cost shifting to private sector businesses and consumers.
· New taxes on health sector entities.

The analysis concluded that collectively the four provisions would raise premiums for private health insurance coverage. As the report itself acknowledges, other provisions that are part of health reform proposals were not included in the PwC analysis. The report stated on page 1:

“The reform packages under consideration have other provisions that we have not included in this analysis. We have not estimated the impact of the new subsidies on the net insurance cost to households. Also, if other provisions in health care reform are successful in lowering costs over the long term, those improvements would offset some of the impacts we have estimated.”

Oh well, at least they were honest about not being totally honest.


Accounting Firm Admits Cost Savings Left Out Of Report Prepared For AHIP Report | TPMDC

 

[QUENTIN]

Certainly, if there's one good rule to keep in mind as a citizen it's that governments lie.

But that's been true for centuries and in every nation, it's not a new development of the Obama administration.

The fact that you yahoos didn't find your so called anti-government beliefs and phony sense of skepticism until it wasn't your party in office belies your sincerity and demonstrates just how hypocritical and full of shit you are.