We seem to have a lot of anti Cain sentiment on the board so lets put it to the test

[hortysir]

Santorum seems to have grown a set:

The former Pennsylvania senator’s solution is to have zero income tax on manufacturing companies, zero taxes on repatriated corporate profits that are invested in manufacturing equipment and zero Obama-era regulations.


“One of the great problems in our economy, if you look at it… is the middle of America has started to disappear – the middle income of America,” Santorum said. “Why? Because the manufacturing jobs in America have disappeared.”

Santorum said his 0-0-0 plan would “reignite” America’s economy by stimulating growth in the manufacturing sector. Cain’s 9-9-9 plan would amount to a complete overhaul of the tax code by instituting a 9 percent flat personal income tax, a 9 percent sales tax and a 9 percent corporate income tax.

Santorum Swipes Cain’s 9-9-9 Plan, Offers 0-0-0 - ABC News



**shrug**

 

[AVG-JOE]

In addition, nobody is addressing the loss of states revenue. When the federal government tacks on a 9% sales tax, will the states drop their 7% sales tax or just add it onto the federal tax meaning you pay 16% sales tax?

Oh nosies! You mean in addition to paying taxes to the Fed (as we already are) we will have to continue paying taxes to the states and localities (as we already are)?

The horror!

That's not a rational objection. It's a very petty and disingenuous quibble.

I don't think a 16% sales tax is a quibble

The states should consider a consistent blend too. Although property taxes do disadvantage the wealthy while sales taxes disadvantage the poor.

 

[LoneLaugher]

The trick is to tie the numbers together with a band of titanium.

9% income + 9% sales to high? Move to 8% + 8%.

Natural disaster strike? Need to increase revenue? Move to 10% + 10%

As I said earlier, income taxes are unfair to high income folks and low income folks are disadvantaged by consumption taxes. Keep it simple. Keep it fair.

And Cain's plan won't tax capital gains. Which means a wealthy person who earns his income from capital gains will pay exactly $0 in income taxes.

How is that fair?

I'm not necessarily promoting Cain's plan. In my perfect world, dollars gained would be 'income', whether through sweat or shrewd investing, and taxed at 9%.

I'm ultimately in favor of fair and simple taxes. If Cains plan actually allows investors to pay nothing on what their money earns for them, shame on it - it must be fixed.

Lemme see if I follow you.

I have a gross income of $100,000. I pay $9,000 in income taxes.

I spend $60,000 of the money I have left ( after taxes ) which is taxed...subtract $5400. I think I was taxed twice there. But I'm not sure.

I am left with $25,600 (after taxes and expenses) that I invest. It earns HEALTHY 6%. I gained $1,536. You want me to pay 9% tax on that? I think I have been taxed three times. But i'm not sure.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Cain over Obama, any day of the week................

 

[AVG-JOE]

And Cain's plan won't tax capital gains. Which means a wealthy person who earns his income from capital gains will pay exactly $0 in income taxes.

How is that fair?

I'm not necessarily promoting Cain's plan. In my perfect world, dollars gained would be 'income', whether through sweat or shrewd investing, and taxed at 9%.

I'm ultimately in favor of fair and simple taxes. If Cains plan actually allows investors to pay nothing on what their money earns for them, shame on it - it must be fixed.

Lemme see if I follow you.

I have a gross income of $100,000. I pay $9,000 in income taxes.

I spend $60,000 of the money I have left ( after taxes ) which is taxed...subtract $5400. I think I was taxed twice there. But I'm not sure.

I am left with $25,600 (after taxes and expenses) that I invest. It earns HEALTHY 6%. I gained $1,536. You want me to pay 9% tax on that? I think I have been taxed three times. But i'm not sure.

9% income tax (9 pennies out of every dollar gained.)
+
9% Sales tax on what you consume.

Simple, fair, predictable, cheap to administer.

It doesn't need deductions, credits or other lines of bullshit favoritism because it's only 9%.

Please bear in mind that I'm not necessarily endorsing the Cain plan per se, I have no idea what kind of favoritism is in or is proposed for the Cain plan. I advocate for fair and simple taxes and a budget that is balanced by law, and the Cain plan is the first I've seen that looks to keep the rate under 10% and split the burden between income and consumption.

 

[LoneLaugher]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

 

[Full-Auto]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

Then it is official. You dont believe all men should be treated equally.

So you wont mind if others respond in kind.

 

[LoneLaugher]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

Then it is official. You dont believe all men should be treated equally.

So you wont mind if others respond in kind.

Doh! You caught me! What a clever trap you laid! I'd better watch out for you. You have a deep understanding of the issues and will surely ensnare me in your wicked word-traps over and over again!

 

[Foxfyre]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

Why?

 

[clevergirl]

Followup to a previous post....

How much additional money would Cain make using the 999 plan?

Would someone making $25,000 a year pay more or less under Cains plan?

I don't know and I don't care as long as it is not oppressive and is equitable. The person making $10,000 or $25,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 or $25 million should have an equal stake in the system with everybody else and should be paying proportionately the same amount as much as possible.

There is too much temptation to vote for the one who promises to screw the other guy and let you out of any responsibility for supporting the government. With everybody reaping the same percentage of benefit or experiencing the same consequences for whatever tax policy is involved, everybody will have incentive to vote for the best policy for everybody instead of for whomever will keep the gravy train rolling for themselves.

So you favor a plan that would shift more tax burden from the wealthy onto the working poor as long as you can label it "fair"

We know that Cain does

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% . The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs.

 

[rightwinger]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

 

[rightwinger]

I don't know and I don't care as long as it is not oppressive and is equitable. The person making $10,000 or $25,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 or $25 million should have an equal stake in the system with everybody else and should be paying proportionately the same amount as much as possible.

There is too much temptation to vote for the one who promises to screw the other guy and let you out of any responsibility for supporting the government. With everybody reaping the same percentage of benefit or experiencing the same consequences for whatever tax policy is involved, everybody will have incentive to vote for the best policy for everybody instead of for whomever will keep the gravy train rolling for themselves.

So you favor a plan that would shift more tax burden from the wealthy onto the working poor as long as you can label it "fair"

We know that Cain does

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% . The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs.

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% .

While adding a 9% tax on every dollar you spend

The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs

Will the right ever tire of this fairy tale? "Cut taxes and we promise that jobs and prosperity will follow

 

[rightwinger]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

Then it is official. You dont believe all men should be treated equally.

So you wont mind if others respond in kind.

All men are treated equally. It is all dollars that are not treated equally

 

[AVG-JOE]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

I disagree. A progressive tax raises the rate as income goes up. With that kind of tax in place, it's no wonder that the wealthy in this nation hired a bunch of lobbyists to graft as many deductions, credits, bullshit and favoritism into the progressive tax system we tried.

I call the progressive tax system in place a massive failure and I call for simple and fair taxes based on a blend of a flat income tax and a consumption tax.

K.I.S.S.

Keep it simple, stud.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I don't know and I don't care as long as it is not oppressive and is equitable. The person making $10,000 or $25,000 or $50,000 or $100,000 or $25 million should have an equal stake in the system with everybody else and should be paying proportionately the same amount as much as possible.

There is too much temptation to vote for the one who promises to screw the other guy and let you out of any responsibility for supporting the government. With everybody reaping the same percentage of benefit or experiencing the same consequences for whatever tax policy is involved, everybody will have incentive to vote for the best policy for everybody instead of for whomever will keep the gravy train rolling for themselves.

So you favor a plan that would shift more tax burden from the wealthy onto the working poor as long as you can label it "fair"

We know that Cain does

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% . The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs.

If this nation wants to attract investment from within or from the world, a tax code that's simple, fair and predictable, without having to hire a $600/hour lawyer, would help a LOT.

 

[AVG-JOE]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

How's that working out for the financial fitness of Europe and the rest of the gang, now?

 

[Full-Auto]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

cute story if nothing else

 

[The T]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

Just because the rest of the world likes tyranny means WE should emulate them?

Wrong answer.

 

[Full-Auto]

the only fair tax system is a progressive tax system.

That is why a progressive tax is favored throughout the world (except for Russia)

Just because the rest of the world likes tyranny means WE should emulate them?

Wrong answer.

This is just another medieval idea the left wants to keep alive. You know rob from the rich and give to the poor government.

 

[AVG-JOE]

So you favor a plan that would shift more tax burden from the wealthy onto the working poor as long as you can label it "fair"

We know that Cain does

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% . The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs.

The income tax of a person earning 25k would go from 15% to 9% .

While adding a 9% tax on every dollar you spend

The reduction of corporate tax would blow open the flood gates for the US to attract billions of dollars to flow back into our economy- creating jobs

Will the right ever tire of this fairy tale? "Cut taxes and we promise that jobs and prosperity will follow

It's not about raising or lowering taxes NOW any more than it was about cutting taxes back in 2003. The elusive and simple answer remains taxes that are fair through their simplicity and a budget that's balanced by law.

If 9-9-9 proves to be not enough revenue, raise it to 10-10-10. As long as the income and consumption components are tied together, the tax remains fair.

I'll bet a dollar that by 2025 we'll be able to cut from 9-9-9 to 7-7-7 if we keep it bullshit favoritism free and it's accompanied by a balanced budget law with teeth.