We’re number 37! USA USA USA!!

[Harry Dresden]

But we pay more than any other industrialized country for our #37 ranking

The US is the only country where you can go bankrupt just for getting sick. 60% of personal bankruptcies are because of healthcare costs not financial mismanagement. And the majority of that 60% have healthcare

"but why do people from other country's come here for health care".....simple answer...THEY ARE RICH AND CAN AFFORD IT. Whenever the idiots say this, just remind them, no one is disputing the care our doctors give, we are saying everyone should have access to it, not just the rich.

....im not rich Zona....but Blue Shield says im covered if i need some major surgery.....so then would you Zona go to that Mecca in the desert Oman over a US hospital for heart Surgery?......no 8 vs no 37....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Wonder why no other nation is modeling their health care after the US?

health care or health system?....there is a difference....

 

[Avatar4321]

I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that anyone thinks things like health care, education, and housing AREN'T basic human rights.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how you can possibly argue that they are basic human rights.

Needs and privileges are not rights.

 

[Avatar4321]

"but why do people from other country's come here for health care".....simple answer...THEY ARE RICH AND CAN AFFORD IT. Whenever the idiots say this, just remind them, no one is disputing the care our doctors give, we are saying everyone should have access to it, not just the rich.

Can you name a single person who doesnt have access to health care? Is there anyone who can't just walk into an ER and be treated?

Shouldn't the fact that rich people want our health care give you a pretty large clue that our health care system is valuable? Why on earth would you purposely want to destroy it?

 

[Harry Dresden]

gone over?

yes, the right has deflected. not a single person on the right has addressed the actual issue.

sorry, kiddo.

this one's a major fail for the right because the right pretends the U.S. 'has the best healthcare in the world' without regard a) to whether it is true; and b) who is able to obtain that health care.

A country where 50% of bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated health care costs (largely among people who already HAVE health insurance) does NOT have the 'best healthcare in the world', no matter if I can afford to write my doctor a $600 check for my annual mammogram and sonogram, for which my insurance company reimburses me about $50.

Jill are we talking Health Care or Health Care System?....because the Care is there.... its the system that needs to be fixed to get people to that care.....i am no rich guy but i get to use two of the better Medical facilities in S.Cal....and im willing to bet right now that anyone here would rather go to U.C. Irvine Med Center than any med facility in no.8 Oman....including Rw....

 

[Harry Dresden]

if you can AFFORD it, the doctors are terrific. Now go trying to pay for one if heaven forbid you have an unanticipated illness... or your insurance company drops you after diagnosis and you can't get new coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

are you intentionally not absorbing that?

and this is one of the points that should be fixed right now.....even before anything is passed .....no dropping if you happen to get sick....

 

[Harry Dresden]

half of the population of Mexico in illegal residence.

hey willow, why lie when you don't have too, to you think it makes your point more valid LOL

hey it seems that way were i am at.....

 

[jillian]

gone over?

yes, the right has deflected. not a single person on the right has addressed the actual issue.

sorry, kiddo.

this one's a major fail for the right because the right pretends the U.S. 'has the best healthcare in the world' without regard a) to whether it is true; and b) who is able to obtain that health care.

A country where 50% of bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated health care costs (largely among people who already HAVE health insurance) does NOT have the 'best healthcare in the world', no matter if I can afford to write my doctor a $600 check for my annual mammogram and sonogram, for which my insurance company reimburses me about $50.

Jill are we talking Health Care or Health Care System?....because the Care is there.... its the system that needs to be fixed to get people to that care.....i am no rich guy but i get to use two of the better Medical facilities in S.Cal....and im willing to bet right now that anyone here would rather go to U.C. Irvine Med Center than any med facility in no.8 Oman....including Rw....

I think the problem is that the two are inextricably intertwined. People with money can afford care anywhere. People without money here have government assistance. It's the people in the middle who are getting squeezed. Yes, my doctors at Cornell med were wonderful when I gave birth to my son. But I also know that it cost me $8,000 for the ob/gyn, of which I got back $1,000. That didn't include the hospital. It didn't include the tests I had to take... That was 12 years ago. I can't imagine what it costs now.

The point of the ramble, though, was that you can't say you have the 'best healthcare in the world' if it is inaccessible to many; if we're paying twice as much as anyone else; and its ultimately going to bankrupt this country. All the issues are intertwined.

BTW, there are some amazing doctors in many other countries. As was pointed out on this thread, the first heart transplant was done by a doctor in south africa. The best research into spinal injuries is being done in Israel (mostly because this country was stalled on stem cells for 8 years while everyone else advanced)

There is a reason Canadians voted the man who designed their health care system as the greatest canadian.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

if you can AFFORD it, the doctors are terrific. Now go trying to pay for one if heaven forbid you have an unanticipated illness... or your insurance company drops you after diagnosis and you can't get new coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

are you intentionally not absorbing that?

and this is one of the points that should be fixed right now.....even before anything is passed .....no dropping if you happen to get sick....

The Democrats are not interested in FIXING anything, they want to TAKE OVER health care. If they had created a small bill just to protect people from being dropped with preexisting problems and another for preventing them from being dropped for being sick those would have passed in a matter of days.

I am sorry but I do not want the Government forcing me to buy health insurance or forcing anyone to do so, they have NO Constitutional right to do so. They have no legal right , no Constitutional right, to take over the Health Care Industry. And anyone with half a brain knows when they do things will get worse NOT BETTER. And will cost a Fortune. Government does not do anything that is cheap and they can not control their own spending much less Health Cares.

 

[rightwinger]

But we pay more than any other industrialized country for our #37 ranking

The US is the only country where you can go bankrupt just for getting sick. 60% of personal bankruptcies are because of healthcare costs not financial mismanagement. And the majority of that 60% have healthcare

hey RW....would you rather have some serious surgery here or would you rather go to Oman who is no 8....its cheaper there and the vaunted WHO says they are what 20-30x better then us.....how about it RW....answer me....you said your a stand up guy....well stand up....

I have never been to Oman. I do know they are a fairly wealthy country, so I would not be so quick to condemn their healthcare.
What I did find was..

As of 1999, there were an estimated 1.3 physicians and 2.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. In 1993, 89% of the population had access to health care services. In 2000, 99% of the population had access to health care services.. During the last 3 decades, the Oman health care system has demonstrated and reported great achievements in health care services and preventive and curative medicine. In 2001, Oman was ranked number 8 by the World Health Organization.

It appears that Oman is a wealthy country that cares about the well being of its citizens. It has invested heavily in its healthcare system and covers 99% of its population. I would guess that if you were to visti Oman, you would find hospitals and equipment acquired in the last 20 years. The only problem is you would find the hospital staffed with foreign doctors.....

Wait a minute...US hospitals are staffed with foreign doctors too.

So I guess the answer you have been waiting for is that I would not have a problem using a hospital in the #8 healthcare country ...Oman

 

[RetiredGySgt]

But we pay more than any other industrialized country for our #37 ranking

The US is the only country where you can go bankrupt just for getting sick. 60% of personal bankruptcies are because of healthcare costs not financial mismanagement. And the majority of that 60% have healthcare

hey RW....would you rather have some serious surgery here or would you rather go to Oman who is no 8....its cheaper there and the vaunted WHO says they are what 20-30x better then us.....how about it RW....answer me....you said your a stand up guy....well stand up....

I have never been to Oman. I do know they are a fairly wealthy country, so I would not be so quick to condemn their healthcare.
What I did find was..

As of 1999, there were an estimated 1.3 physicians and 2.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. In 1993, 89% of the population had access to health care services. In 2000, 99% of the population had access to health care services.. During the last 3 decades, the Oman health care system has demonstrated and reported great achievements in health care services and preventive and curative medicine. In 2001, Oman was ranked number 8 by the World Health Organization.

It appears that Oman is a wealthy country that cares about the well being of its citizens. It has invested heavily in its healthcare system and covers 99% of its population. I would guess that if you were to visti Oman, you would find hospitals and equipment acquired in the last 20 years. The only problem is you would find the hospital staffed with foreign doctors.....

Wait a minute...US hospitals are staffed with foreign doctors too.

So I guess the answer you have been waiting for is that I would not have a problem using a hospital in the #8 healthcare country ...Oman

Small Country awash in OIL money, ya that is a fair comparison to the US.

 

[rightwinger]

"but why do people from other country's come here for health care".....simple answer...THEY ARE RICH AND CAN AFFORD IT. Whenever the idiots say this, just remind them, no one is disputing the care our doctors give, we are saying everyone should have access to it, not just the rich.

Can you name a single person who doesnt have access to health care? Is there anyone who can't just walk into an ER and be treated?

Shouldn't the fact that rich people want our health care give you a pretty large clue that our health care system is valuable? Why on earth would you purposely want to destroy it?

What is the first thing they do when you go to an ER? They check your insurance.
From that point on, your care is determined by your coverage. ERs are there to fix your immediate symptoms. They will do whatever is medically necessary to stabilize your condition.
Once you are stabilized.....your ability to pay will determine what happens next

 

[rightwinger]

hey RW....would you rather have some serious surgery here or would you rather go to Oman who is no 8....its cheaper there and the vaunted WHO says they are what 20-30x better then us.....how about it RW....answer me....you said your a stand up guy....well stand up....

I have never been to Oman. I do know they are a fairly wealthy country, so I would not be so quick to condemn their healthcare.
What I did find was..

As of 1999, there were an estimated 1.3 physicians and 2.2 hospital beds per 1,000 people. In 1993, 89% of the population had access to health care services. In 2000, 99% of the population had access to health care services.. During the last 3 decades, the Oman health care system has demonstrated and reported great achievements in health care services and preventive and curative medicine. In 2001, Oman was ranked number 8 by the World Health Organization.

It appears that Oman is a wealthy country that cares about the well being of its citizens. It has invested heavily in its healthcare system and covers 99% of its population. I would guess that if you were to visti Oman, you would find hospitals and equipment acquired in the last 20 years. The only problem is you would find the hospital staffed with foreign doctors.....

Wait a minute...US hospitals are staffed with foreign doctors too.

So I guess the answer you have been waiting for is that I would not have a problem using a hospital in the #8 healthcare country ...Oman

Small Country awash in OIL money, ya that is a fair comparison to the US.

Bring it up with Harry Dresden.
He is the one who has been hounding me about whether I would go for treatment in Oman.
Like I said, I would hae no problem with it

 

[Harry Dresden]

BTW, there are some amazing doctors in many other countries. As was pointed out on this thread, the first heart transplant was done by a doctor in south africa. The best research into spinal injuries is being done in Israel (mostly because this country was stalled on stem cells for 8 years while everyone else advanced)

There is a reason Canadians voted the man who designed their health care system as the greatest canadian.

not arguing that point....i know there is.....before my Dad passed his Endocrinologist at UCI Med Center is one who gets called by Doctors from all over the world for his opinion and he gets to go to many of those countries for lectures....and one day we were talking about medicine around the world....and he told me there are some excellent med centers worldwide,Especially in Europe and Australia and some countries in Asia .....BUT...he also was saying that many Countries that the WHO says have excellent Medical Systems....well lets just say he said if he was in some of those Countries....he would hope he would never need serious Medical attention.....

 

[CMike]

gone over?

yes, the right has deflected. not a single person on the right has addressed the actual issue.

sorry, kiddo.

this one's a major fail for the right because the right pretends the U.S. 'has the best healthcare in the world' without regard a) to whether it is true; and b) who is able to obtain that health care.

A country where 50% of bankruptcies are the result of unanticipated health care costs (largely among people who already HAVE health insurance) does NOT have the 'best healthcare in the world', no matter if I can afford to write my doctor a $600 check for my annual mammogram and sonogram, for which my insurance company reimburses me about $50.

Jill are we talking Health Care or Health Care System?....because the Care is there.... its the system that needs to be fixed to get people to that care.....i am no rich guy but i get to use two of the better Medical facilities in S.Cal....and im willing to bet right now that anyone here would rather go to U.C. Irvine Med Center than any med facility in no.8 Oman....including Rw....

I think the problem is that the two are inextricably intertwined. People with money can afford care anywhere. People without money here have government assistance. It's the people in the middle who are getting squeezed. Yes, my doctors at Cornell med were wonderful when I gave birth to my son. But I also know that it cost me $8,000 for the ob/gyn, of which I got back $1,000. That didn't include the hospital. It didn't include the tests I had to take... That was 12 years ago. I can't imagine what it costs now.

The point of the ramble, though, was that you can't say you have the 'best healthcare in the world' if it is inaccessible to many; if we're paying twice as much as anyone else; and its ultimately going to bankrupt this country. All the issues are intertwined.

BTW, there are some amazing doctors in many other countries. As was pointed out on this thread, the first heart transplant was done by a doctor in south africa. The best research into spinal injuries is being done in Israel (mostly because this country was stalled on stem cells for 8 years while everyone else advanced)

There is a reason Canadians voted the man who designed their health care system as the greatest canadian.

This is a strange thing to say but in some ways I agree with you.

The problem is the people in the middle. The poor have access it and those who can afford it can get it.

ALL have access to it.

The question is how do you fix it.

You are incorrectly assuming that the government taking it over is going to make it better. I don't. Name one program that is run efficiently by the government? The post office perhaps?

There isn't one.

The question is how do you make it more affordable? The problem is that the government has already made it more costly.

I have family in canada who tell me how it sucks there. Yes, it's anecdotal evidence. You can wait a long lonnnnnng lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time, to get an operation you need.

What will happen if the government took it over?

Rationing

Poor service

Poor quality

Very long wait times

America has the best health care in the world. The trick is to keep the best health care in the world but make it affordable to the middle of america.

 

[rightwinger]

What will happen if the government took it over?

Rationing

Poor service

Poor quality

Very long wait times

America has the best health care in the world. The trick is to keep the best health care in the world but make it affordable to the middle of america.

What I can't understand is the rightwing conservative obsession that we are somehow looking at a "government takeover" of healthcare.

Where has a Government takeover ever been proposed? Neither the House or Senat bill had anything close the the government taking over healthcare. The only thing proposed was a public option that would provide competition and keep prices down for middle class people

 

[AvgGuyIA]

Why in the world do you Progressives think European Health Care socialism is what the United States should strive for? Those countries are going broke or don't have the money for anything but their health care. If you were comparing the US to the world on the basis of "equality of outcome" and we were found to be in last place, I would have no problem with that. What is important is how we rank when it comes to equality of opportunity. In that we rank 1st with no peer.

Well if they are going broke from their healthcare, how is it that they pay a significantly lower percentage of their GDP for healthcare?

It is the USA that is going broke from healthcare costs

Go take a trip to Greece and see what's going on there; riots, people out of work because the country is broke. Next is going to be the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. We'll be going down the shithole too if you Progressives get your health care, Cap & Trade taxes, etc.

 

[AvgGuyIA]

You're going to be #2 in hockey tomorrow...

Dang illegals!

 

[AvgGuyIA]

if you can AFFORD it, the doctors are terrific. Now go trying to pay for one if heaven forbid you have an unanticipated illness... or your insurance company drops you after diagnosis and you can't get new coverage because of a pre-existing condition.

are you intentionally not absorbing that?

and this is one of the points that should be fixed right now.....even before anything is passed .....no dropping if you happen to get sick....

The Republicans agree with that one RIGHT NOW, but the Progressives (what a stupid name) won't pass the Republican bill. They want their 2400 page bill, with its kick-backs, exemptions for Nebraska and labor unions , et al passed.

 

[Wry Catcher]

What will happen if the government took it over?

Rationing

Poor service

Poor quality

Very long wait times

America has the best health care in the world. The trick is to keep the best health care in the world but make it affordable to the middle of america.

What I can't understand is the rightwing conservative obsession that we are somehow looking at a "government takeover" of healthcare.

Where has a Government takeover ever been proposed? Neither the House or Senat bill had anything close the the government taking over healthcare. The only thing proposed was a public option that would provide competition and keep prices down for middle class people

Q. Where has a Government takeover ever been proposed?

A. By Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, et al on conservative radio; on Fox "News", and by the 'leadership' of the Republicans in the House and Senate as well as by Chairman Steele.
It is a talking point of the RW used to obfuscate legitimate debate on how health care can be reformed in America; a tactic to protect the status quo which benefits the few at the expense of the many.