We Must Choose Between Our Babies And Affordable Energy: The New War On Coal

[Moonglow]

From the same folks that want goverment funded abortions comes this latest attempt to raise our energy bills.

you made the inital statement in your OP~ duh!

 

[Moonglow]

And then you'll bitch that your power bill goes up.

it has gone up anyway.

And you'll bitch more.

I keep waiting for some drooling idiot lefty to propose a law making it illegal for companies to pass on increased cost to consumers.

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

 

[mudwhistle]

From the same folks that want goverment funded abortions comes this latest attempt to raise our energy bills.

you made the inital statement in your OP~ duh!

You shot out on a tangent and tried to prove Bush wants government funded abortions.

If you want to start another thread feel free.

 

[mudwhistle]

it has gone up anyway.

And you'll bitch more.

I keep waiting for some drooling idiot lefty to propose a law making it illegal for companies to pass on increased cost to consumers.

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

You're not one of those idiots that says "I can't wait till my rates go up" are you??

 

[Moonglow]

From the same folks that want goverment funded abortions comes this latest attempt to raise our energy bills.

you made the inital statement in your OP~ duh!

You shot out on a tangent and tried to prove Bush wants government funded abortions.

If you want to start another thread feel free.

okay dodge all you want, but why did you make a statment about abortion and energy policy all in the same sentence?

 

[Moonglow]

And you'll bitch more.

I keep waiting for some drooling idiot lefty to propose a law making it illegal for companies to pass on increased cost to consumers.

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

You're not one of those idiots that says "I can't wait till my rates go up" are you??

oh yeah all the time.

 

[signelect]

Greenies are killing us with higher cost. I bet they drive to the meetings in SUV's.

Go green in 2012 recycle Obama

 

[mudwhistle]

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

You're not one of those idiots that says "I can't wait till my rates go up" are you??

oh yeah all the time.

You post like one.....so the wrong impression is understandable.

You sound like one of those idiots.

 

[mudwhistle]

Moon....your deal must be you're into hosing everybody else then.

Youi don't like it when you get hosed.

Gotcha. .

 

[daveman]

it has gone up anyway.

And you'll bitch more.

I keep waiting for some drooling idiot lefty to propose a law making it illegal for companies to pass on increased cost to consumers.

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

So, fuck the poor and working class...it doesn't affect you.

Right?

 

[kiwiman127]

Well, what we have here is the argument over the cost of energy financially and the cost of energy health-wise.
Both points have validity to them.
It is true that upgrading our energy process resources and emission will cost the consumer more money in the end. The America consumer is already strapped with flat wages and fewer jobs that are available. This doesn't appear to be a short-term problem either. Can working Americans afford to have their energy costs to skyrocketing? Can our economy?
Then there's the health issues side of the argument. Fossil fuel emission is not only laden with carbon dioxide but also sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, all which cause Acid Rain and smog, which in turn kills trees/plants and aquatic life and causes huge respiratory issues, particularly with asthmatics. Acid Rain can also destroy none-living things as it can eat away paint and building materials. So with the harmful gases issues, we are looking at respiratory related deaths and plus escalated treatment for respiratory related issues will drive up health care cost for everyone. In the last ten years, health care medical costs, which drive up the costs of cost of health care has risen by over 100%, nominal income only went up almost 40% during that same time. Acid Rain can also destroy none-living things as it can eat away paint and building materials, in other words it depletes our infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers estimated in early 2009 that the US needed to spend 2.2 trillion dollars of repair and improve it's infrastructure. So, not addressing toxic gases from fossil fuels also bears a huge financial cost.
It's a Catch-22 situation.
So the issue should be, how can the US and the industrial world hold down the cost of energy but at the same time resolve the issue of the seriously harmful gases of carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides that are the result of the needed energy. It's all about money and the health of our people and environment?

 

[Moonglow]

Moon....your deal must be you're into hosing everybody else then.

Youi don't like it when you get hosed.

Gotcha. .

kep up that delusional thought as you show that you have no credibility.

 

[Moonglow]

And you'll bitch more.

I keep waiting for some drooling idiot lefty to propose a law making it illegal for companies to pass on increased cost to consumers.

the rule affects 27 eastern states and Texas, so not all states will be able to raise rates. My state is not included

So, fuck the poor and working class...it doesn't affect you.

Right?

no not at all. I merely stated where te new rules take effect. And where I live. Rates go up to help support the nergy suppliers, I have no recoures but to accept that which I can't change

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

We must now choose between keeping our babies healthy and being able to pay our electric bills.

This is how low these folks have stooped.

From the same folks that want goverment funded abortions comes this latest attempt to raise our energy bills.

They claim that coal fired energy plants need to be shut down until they can meet new stricter polution standards.

Mercury, that old nemisis has reared it's ugly head again.

They want to decrease birthdefects by shutting down energy plants when a good filtration system would do the same thing.

So another wedge-issue is born.

Ether turn off your ac or and your waterheaters or your bill will be tripled.

Thanks Obama.

I can tell you've thought very deeply on the issue.

 

[flacaltenn]

It is too much to ask of the energy companies that they don't destroy our water with mercury?

Spend some fucking money and put in the scrubbers that are going to clean up this mess, you cheap fucking bastards.

One CFL bulb in 6000 gallons of water exceeds the EPA mercury standard.. Care to condemn the bastards that are forcing THAT choice on every consumer???

Nope -- didn't think so.. THAT'S for a GOOD cause.. Mercury up the chimney, let's fix it by putting that mercury in our landfills and water supplies some other way...

I get your outrage. But it appears to be highly selective outrage..

 

[Trakar]

It is too much to ask of the energy companies that they don't destroy our water with mercury?

Spend some fucking money and put in the scrubbers that are going to clean up this mess, you cheap fucking bastards.

One CFL bulb in 6000 gallons of water exceeds the EPA mercury standard.. Care to condemn the bastards that are forcing THAT choice on every consumer???

Actually, modern CFLs (from the same Stanford study) only have enough to make about a 1000 gallons of water unsafe to drink. 1000 gallons is about as much water as is in one of the small inflatable back yard soaking tubs that some people call "pools." You know, those 10' diameter, 2.5' deep kiddie splashers. The mercury (not to mention radioactive particulates, sulfur compounds, arsenic, fly ash, and CO2) emitted by the power plants to make up the difference between the energy to power a modern CFL, or even more importantly LED, lighting over compensates many hundred fold any minor release that may occur from the rare CFL that ends up broken and in a landfill. There are recycle centers everywhere for the CFL bulbs and you only need to change them every decade or so. If that bothers you buy the LED bulbs, no mercury, more efficient than even the CFLs, and they will last several decades.

Frequently Asked Questions
Information on Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs) and Mercury
November 2010
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

What are mercury emissions caused by humans?

EPA estimates the U.S. is responsible for the release of 103 metric tons1 of mercury emissions each year. More than half of these emissions come from coal-fired electrical power. Mercury released into the air is the main way that mercury gets into water and bio-accumulates in fish. (Eating fish contaminated with mercury is the main way for humans to be exposed.) Most mercury vapor inside fluorescent light bulbs becomes bound to the inside of the light bulb as it is used. EPA estimates that the rest of the mercury within a CFL – about 11 percent – is released into air or water when it is sent to a landfill, assuming the light bulb is broken. Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury emissions caused by humans.

How do CFLs result in less mercury in the environment compared to traditional light
bulbs?

Electricity use is the main source of mercury emissions in the U.S. CFLs use less electricity than incandescent lights, meaning CFLs reduce the amount of mercury into the environment. As shown in the table below, a 13-watt, 8,000-rated-hour-life CFL (60-watt equivalent; a common light bulb type) will save 376 kWh over its lifetime, thus avoiding 4.3 mg of mercury. If the bulb goes to a landfill, overall emissions savings would drop a little, to 3.9 mg. EPA recommends that CFLs are recycled where possible, to maximize mercury savings.

 

[flacaltenn]

Trakar::

I need to see the chemistry for this claim -- before I can buy into it..

Most mercury vapor inside fluorescent light bulbs becomes bound to the inside of the light bulb as it is used. EPA estimates that the rest of the mercury within a CFL – about 11 percent – is released into air or water when it is sent to a landfill, assuming the light bulb is broken.

That 89% that becomes "bound to the glass" seems a little too light in the loafers. Does it STAY bound in the presence of a little carbonic acid or heat or solvents other than water?

Because there is a total of over 2mg of Mercury USED in the manufacture of the bulb. Which makes all those statistics pretty funny looking..

If I tried to toss any amount of lead into a kids' product that was "bound to some structure" -- bet I'd be goin to court..

 

[bripat9643]

Death and Disease from Power Plants - Clean Air Task Force (CATF)

The EPA routinely lies about the risks from pollution, so why would anyone waste his time reading more EPA horseshit?

 

[bripat9643]

Due to these tremendous health benefits, the proposed standards are estimated to yield monetized benefits of $59 billion to $140 billion annually, compared to annual compliance costs of approximately $10.9 billion. This represents $5 to $13 in health benefits for every $1 spent to reduce pollution.

EPA's Mercury and Air Toxics Rule: Bottom Lines and Background | John Walke's Blog | Switchboard, from NRDC

ROFL! And you believe that horseshit? Is there a single documented case of any person suffering from environmental Mercury poisoning in this country?

 

[bripat9643]

You are aware of the flush of new regulations coming out of the EPA?

The old ones were fine. The new regs will shut down most of the energy plants in the country causing rolling brown-outs next Summer. This will necessarily cause our energy bills to sky-rocket.

That is their intention.