We can't compromise! We can't collaborate! We can't cooperate!

[bripat9643]

The difference is I'm going by polls of criminals in prisons and you made it up

Yes, because crooks in prison are so honest. Not a one of them did what they were in for. Just ask them.

And I just addressed that point. We don't have a quota for prisoners. It's based on individuals and the crime they committed. If they committed a violent crime, they should stay in jail a long time. Arguing overall prison rates is irrelevant. You're the collectivist. I believe in individuals. Believing in individuals includes individual responsibility.

again, if we lock up 2 million people and the rest of the world only locks up a few thousand, we are doing it wrong.

Sorry this isn't clear to you.

You "logic" lacks any visible means of support.

 

[kaz]

The difference is I'm going by polls of criminals in prisons and you made it up

Yes, because crooks in prison are so honest. Not a one of them did what they were in for. Just ask them.

Why would they lie about that? You don't see a difference between asking a prisoner "if I tell you my credit card number, will you keep it secret," and "so when you break in a house, are you more afraid of cops or armed homeowners?" You just conflated those. Well, we can't trust prisoners. Of course you don't. You're not ... let's say ... sharp ...

And I just addressed that point. We don't have a quota for prisoners. It's based on individuals and the crime they committed. If they committed a violent crime, they should stay in jail a long time. Arguing overall prison rates is irrelevant. You're the collectivist. I believe in individuals. Believing in individuals includes individual responsibility.

again, if we lock up 2 million people and the rest of the world only locks up a few thousand, we are doing it wrong.

Sorry this isn't clear to you.

First of all, that isn't the ratio, moron. And second of all, that's a strawman. Again your horrible English comprehension. You want to release violent criminals because we have in your mind too many in prison. Sure, propose how to prevent people from turning to crime (which you haven't done, you never back up your shit). What I opposed is changing our incarceration rates because of statistics. I said when an individual commits a crime and harms another citizen, they belong in jail, keep them there.

Debating you is always an adventure since you're just incapable of reading, comprehending and lucidly addressing any point

 

[JoeB131]

You "logic" lacks any visible means of support.

We lock up 2 million people, out of a population of 300 million.

Germany locks up 78,000 people out of a population of 80 million.

What are the Germans doing right that we are doing wrong? Not because of race, because even if limited it to white prisoners, you have nearly a million white people in prison.

Well, they have effective poverty programs.
They don't treat drug addiction like a crime, but as a medical issue.
They seriously restrict who can own a gun.

and they lock up less people than we do AND have a lot less crime.

 

[kaz]

The difference is I'm going by polls of criminals in prisons and you made it up

Yes, because crooks in prison are so honest. Not a one of them did what they were in for. Just ask them.

And I just addressed that point. We don't have a quota for prisoners. It's based on individuals and the crime they committed. If they committed a violent crime, they should stay in jail a long time. Arguing overall prison rates is irrelevant. You're the collectivist. I believe in individuals. Believing in individuals includes individual responsibility.

again, if we lock up 2 million people and the rest of the world only locks up a few thousand, we are doing it wrong.

Sorry this isn't clear to you.

You "logic" lacks any visible means of support.

Joe thinks these are equivalent questions.

Are you in jail for what you were arrested for?

Are you more afraid of armed homeowners than cops.

Context is way, way above his pay grade

 

[kaz]

You "logic" lacks any visible means of support.

We lock up 2 million people, out of a population of 300 million.

Germany locks up 78,000 people out of a population of 80 million.

What are the Germans doing right that we are doing wrong? Not because of race, because even if limited it to white prisoners, you have nearly a million white people in prison.

Well, they have effective poverty programs.
They don't treat drug addiction like a crime, but as a medical issue.
They seriously restrict who can own a gun.

and they lock up less people than we do AND have a lot less crime.

So let's say your campaign to put violent criminals back on the street works, Joe. What satisfaction do you get from that? Why would that be a win to you? Are you posting from prison by any chance right now?

Is that why you support open borders? You like streets filled with criminals and unarmed honest citizens?

 

[JoeB131]

Joe thinks these are equivalent questions.

Are you in jail for what you were arrested for?

Are you more afraid of armed homeowners than cops.

Context is way, way above his pay grade

I'm sure in both cases, they are telling the person asking the question exactly what he wants to hear.

Bring him a pack of smokes, he'll tell you that you are really really smart, too.

 

[kaz]

Joe thinks these are equivalent questions.

Are you in jail for what you were arrested for?

Are you more afraid of armed homeowners than cops.

Context is way, way above his pay grade

I'm sure in both cases, they are telling the person asking the question exactly what he wants to hear.

Bring him a pack of smokes, he'll tell you that you are really really smart, too.

Why are either of those answers what I want to hear? Why do I care if he says he's innocent?

You really don't think things through.

Joe: Criminals are pleasers, they do what they think you want them to do

Yeah ...

 

[JoeB131]

So let's say you're campaign to put violent criminals back on the street works, Joe. What satisfaction do you get from that? Why would that be a win to you? Are you posting from prison by any chance right now?

Most people in prison aren't there for violent crimes. Let's let them out, first.

I do find it funny a "Libertarian" is in favor of locking up millions of people. Too funny.

We need massive penal reform... not just letting people out.

Our current system is a revolving door. We lock someone up for a petty offense, render him unemployable for the rest of his life, and then wonder why he turns to more serious crime to support himself.

It's how the Prison-Industrial Complex feeds itself.

 

[JoeB131]

Why are either of those answers what I want to hear? Why do I care if he says he's innocent?

You really don't think things through.

Joe: Criminals are pleasers, they do what they think you want them to do

Yeah ...

Again, I'm sure if a gun nut asks them if they are afraid of guns... they'll tell them how manly they are with a gun that is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your household than him.

Then he'll snicker, wait until you're not home, and then help himself to a free gun.

 

[kaz]

So let's say you're campaign to put violent criminals back on the street works, Joe. What satisfaction do you get from that? Why would that be a win to you? Are you posting from prison by any chance right now?

Most people in prison aren't there for violent crimes. Let's let them out, first.

I do find it funny a "Libertarian" is in favor of locking up millions of people. Too funny.

We need massive penal reform... not just letting people out.

Our current system is a revolving door. We lock someone up for a petty offense, render him unemployable for the rest of his life, and then wonder why he turns to more serious crime to support himself.

It's how the Prison-Industrial Complex feeds itself.

I'd already noticed and fixed that typo, but thanks for the spell check! Wow, you read a lot of my posts before finding one of those and informing me about it. Internet spell checker, your parents must be so proud.

Now you changed the standard. That is a real issue, but it wasn't the one you were talking about. Yes, we stamp petty criminals with petty crimes on their record and it's a travesty. But they aren't in prison, Joe.

Idiot

 

[kaz]

Why are either of those answers what I want to hear? Why do I care if he says he's innocent?

You really don't think things through.

Joe: Criminals are pleasers, they do what they think you want them to do

Yeah ...

Again, I'm sure if a gun nut asks them if they are afraid of guns... they'll tell them how manly they are with a gun that is 43 times more likely to kill a member of your household than him.

Then he'll snicker, wait until you're not home, and then help himself to a free gun.

Gotcha, it's a conspiracy. My goodness Joe, nice job outing the national conspiracy of criminals to trick homeowners into buying guns.

BTW, I see a gap in your tin foil over your left ear, better tighten that up

 

[Mac1958]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them. Looks pretty impressive.

Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, well, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a top member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - profound, fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Now you changed the standard. That is a real issue, but it wasn't the one you were talking about. Yes, we stamp petty criminals with petty crimes on their record and it's a travesty. But they aren't in prison, Joe.

Actually, we do... and that's the problem.

We lock up 2 million people. Most of them don't need to be there.

 

[JoeB131]

Gotcha, it's a conspiracy. My goodness Joe, nice job outing the national conspiracy of criminals to trick homeowners into buying guns.

Again, the NRA is very good at tricking stupid people into bringing guns into their homes... we've established that.

 

[Correll]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them.

Looks pretty impressive. Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

That is Davin Mcinnes, founder of the group. I've seen him on a number of more formal discussion panels and he does hold his own on the thoughtful and serious intellectual arguments.


The group is primarily a male bonding and support thing. THe initiation seems relative harmless.


Their take on western chauvinism was more what I was referring to.


It answers some of the Anti-Americanism of the left's, encouraging "pride" for the most maligned group, ie straight white guys, while being completely accessible and open to any guy, regardless of race or sexual orientation to join in and be a member.


That is a refutation, of identity politics and a potentially unifying force as an idea.


I would think you would be intrigued.

 

[Mac1958]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them.

Looks pretty impressive. Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

That is Davin Mcinnes, founder of the group. I've seen him on a number of more formal discussion panels and he does hold his own on the thoughtful and serious intellectual arguments.


The group is primarily a male bonding and support thing. THe initiation seems relative harmless.


Their take on western chauvinism was more what I was referring to.


It answers some of the Anti-Americanism of the left's, encouraging "pride" for the most maligned group, ie straight white guys, while being completely accessible and open to any guy, regardless of race or sexual orientation to join in and be a member.


That is a refutation, of identity politics and a potentially unifying force as an idea.


I would think you would be intrigued.

No. Looking at their stuff, this is nothing more to me than a right wing Antifa.

Fighting and yelling and sloganeering inside a closed tribe only makes things worse. If this is the best people can come up with, it's clear to me that what I have read is true - it has been so long that we've communicated like adults that we've literally lost that skill. All we know how to do is scream and grunt.

That concerns me very much.
.

 

[Correll]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them.

Looks pretty impressive. Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

That is Davin Mcinnes, founder of the group. I've seen him on a number of more formal discussion panels and he does hold his own on the thoughtful and serious intellectual arguments.


The group is primarily a male bonding and support thing. THe initiation seems relative harmless.


Their take on western chauvinism was more what I was referring to.


It answers some of the Anti-Americanism of the left's, encouraging "pride" for the most maligned group, ie straight white guys, while being completely accessible and open to any guy, regardless of race or sexual orientation to join in and be a member.


That is a refutation, of identity politics and a potentially unifying force as an idea.


I would think you would be intrigued.

No. Looking at their stuff, this is nothing more to me than a right wing Antifa.

Fighting and yelling and sloganeering inside a closed tribe only makes things worse. If this is the best people can come up with, it's clear to me that what I have read is true - it has been so long that we've communicated like adults that we've literally lost that skill. All we know how to do is scream and grunt.

That concerns me very much.
.

The Left has been yelling at us, for a long time now. We need people to yell back. Or we lose.


The Left has been fighting us, with violence. We need people to fight back. Or we lose.


Mcinnes, and from what little I've seen of others in this group, others, are certainly able to engage in serious debate.


Tell me what you think of this one. Less than three minutes.

 

[Mac1958]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them.

Looks pretty impressive. Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

That is Davin Mcinnes, founder of the group. I've seen him on a number of more formal discussion panels and he does hold his own on the thoughtful and serious intellectual arguments.


The group is primarily a male bonding and support thing. THe initiation seems relative harmless.


Their take on western chauvinism was more what I was referring to.


It answers some of the Anti-Americanism of the left's, encouraging "pride" for the most maligned group, ie straight white guys, while being completely accessible and open to any guy, regardless of race or sexual orientation to join in and be a member.


That is a refutation, of identity politics and a potentially unifying force as an idea.


I would think you would be intrigued.

No. Looking at their stuff, this is nothing more to me than a right wing Antifa.

Fighting and yelling and sloganeering inside a closed tribe only makes things worse. If this is the best people can come up with, it's clear to me that what I have read is true - it has been so long that we've communicated like adults that we've literally lost that skill. All we know how to do is scream and grunt.

That concerns me very much.
.

The Left has been yelling at us, for a long time now. We need people to yell back. Or we lose.


The Left has been fighting us, with violence. We need people to fight back. Or we lose.


Mcinnes, and from what little I've seen of others in this group, others, are certainly able to engage in serious debate.


Tell me what you think of this one. Less than three minutes.

I'm assuming the guy was being serious.

Holy shit, even Hannity was embarrassed. That's not easy to do.

If this bag of simplistic, ignorant generalizations is the best this guy has, I know all I need to know about this group.
.

 

[Correll]

I've been hearing some encouraging details coming out of the Proud Boys recently. A novel way to counter the Identify Politics of the Regressive Left. Have you heard anything of them?

No, so I googled them.

Looks pretty impressive. Below, they appear to have some kind of "initiation" for a new member, not unlike something we may have seen in "Animal House".



Here they are in a constructive conversation, er, violent street clash with members of another intellectual organization, Antifa:



Here's another meeting of the minds, committed to demonstrating the mature and rational conversation that - okay, no, it's actually another street fight:



And here is a fascinating expose on someone who appears to be a member of this Proud Boys think tank, and says: "I think being a man requires four things: You have to have broken a heart, you have to break someone's heart, you have to beat the shit out of someone, and you have to have the shit beaten out of you" - fascinating and challenging words of wisdom as we endeavor to create a better America:



Thanks for the tip. It's certainly good to have a new, thoughtful, reasonable, intellectual argument in the conversation.
.

That is Davin Mcinnes, founder of the group. I've seen him on a number of more formal discussion panels and he does hold his own on the thoughtful and serious intellectual arguments.


The group is primarily a male bonding and support thing. THe initiation seems relative harmless.


Their take on western chauvinism was more what I was referring to.


It answers some of the Anti-Americanism of the left's, encouraging "pride" for the most maligned group, ie straight white guys, while being completely accessible and open to any guy, regardless of race or sexual orientation to join in and be a member.


That is a refutation, of identity politics and a potentially unifying force as an idea.


I would think you would be intrigued.

No. Looking at their stuff, this is nothing more to me than a right wing Antifa.

Fighting and yelling and sloganeering inside a closed tribe only makes things worse. If this is the best people can come up with, it's clear to me that what I have read is true - it has been so long that we've communicated like adults that we've literally lost that skill. All we know how to do is scream and grunt.

That concerns me very much.
.

The Left has been yelling at us, for a long time now. We need people to yell back. Or we lose.


The Left has been fighting us, with violence. We need people to fight back. Or we lose.


Mcinnes, and from what little I've seen of others in this group, others, are certainly able to engage in serious debate.


Tell me what you think of this one. Less than three minutes.

I'm assuming the guy was being serious.

Holy shit, even Hannity was embarrassed. That's not easy to do.

If this bag of simplistic, ignorant generalizations is the best this guy has, I know all I need to know about this group.
.

You do know that one of the prime drivers of the "pay gap" is that women do more often choose family over career, right?


What McInnes said, was factually correct. That he said in completely unapologeticly and in her face, was a good thing.


Your point about even Hannity being embarrassed, is true. The regressive left has created a world were speaking the Truth is shocking.

 

[kaz]

Gotcha, it's a conspiracy. My goodness Joe, nice job outing the national conspiracy of criminals to trick homeowners into buying guns.

Again, the NRA is very good at tricking stupid people into bringing guns into their homes... we've established that.

So Planned Parenthood is "tricking" people into getting abortions. The ACLU is tricking people into committing crimes. Got it.

You're a whack job, Joe