We cannot win in iraq.

[The T]

Why do we have to do it? If we explore for oil domestically and let Europe live in the bed they made then why do we need to go after them at all unless they attack us like on 9/11? As I keep saying, while I'm against nation building in Afghanistan, I was totally for blasting the crap out of the Taliban for abetting Al Qaeda.

You're not getting it.
If we withdrew all out troops from the ME, left Israel to die at the hands of the Arabs, ceased buying ME oil it still wouldnt matter. The radical Muslims see our very existence as a problem. We are stopping the universal triumph of Islam over the world. They cannot stand that. They will attack us no matter what.

And we'll be there to fight them if they do. I don't see the advantage of our doing it while being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

And Europe would take the brunt of their wrath as they already do even with us there. Let the Euroweenies be the front line.

Since WE have bailed their dumbasses out TWICE...maybe this time they'll catch the hint?

 

[kaz]

You're not getting it.
If we withdrew all out troops from the ME, left Israel to die at the hands of the Arabs, ceased buying ME oil it still wouldnt matter. The radical Muslims see our very existence as a problem. We are stopping the universal triumph of Islam over the world. They cannot stand that. They will attack us no matter what.

And we'll be there to fight them if they do. I don't see the advantage of our doing it while being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

And Europe would take the brunt of their wrath as they already do even with us there. Let the Euroweenies be the front line.

Since WE have bailed their dumbasses out TWICE...maybe this time they'll catch the hint?

Europe is far more dependent on Middle East oil. Europe has been the target of far more terrorist attacks. And historically, Europe created the mess. And while we take the lead, they keep stabbing us in the back. Yes, we need to stop bailing them out.

 

[Plasmaball]

Bullshit. The Left has been rooting for us to lose in Iraq pretty much since the war was more than 48 hours old.
What we are seeing are the results of disengagement, not engagement. This situation gives the lie to every liberal and brain dead losertarian that the problem with the world is US invovlement. The problem is the opposite.

there it is....a partisan post by a partisan who is basically saying the left hates america because they didnt support a war that wasnt needed.

Its almost like saying you hope Obama Fails....

There it is..an idiot post by the board's resident drooling moron. Missing the point. Throwing assertions.
Hey, how did Obmaa's hasty withdrawal from Iraq work out? How about his other foreign policy triumphs?
I dont have to hope Obama fails. He's already failed.

Hasty? It was on bushes timeline that the Iraqis agreed on, and wanted us to leave. There is literally nothing you can say to get away from these facts.

 

[Plasmaball]

Bullshit. The Left has been rooting for us to lose in Iraq pretty much since the war was more than 48 hours old.
What we are seeing are the results of disengagement, not engagement. This situation gives the lie to every liberal and brain dead losertarian that the problem with the world is US invovlement. The problem is the opposite.

there it is....a partisan post by a partisan who is basically saying the left hates america because they didnt support a war that wasnt needed.

Its almost like saying you hope Obama Fails....

LOL, "partisan" is what you are doing. Rabbi isn't doing it for a party like you, he believes what he is saying. I may not agree with him, but he's clearly not saying what he is for the benefit of the Republican party. You would have to be a complete and utter moron to think that's why he's arguing it. Um...oh...I get it now...

You're doing it for your political party. When W was in power, Iraq was bad. Suddenly it was good under Obama, except the part under W, that is still bad. Even though it's good now. See how that work? You're a Democrat. Dude, buy a dictionary.

Iraq was always a mistake, under Bush and under Obama. It was never good because you were told this would happen. There was a reason People said there was no link between Saddam and AQ. Now we see why. But the right and some others wanted a shortterm victory because it made them feel better. ( which is exactly the GOP platform)

As for Rabbi...he is a rightwing water carrier. Partisan as the day is long and basically dislikes anything that has to do with the left.

 

[The Rabbi]

there it is....a partisan post by a partisan who is basically saying the left hates america because they didnt support a war that wasnt needed.

Its almost like saying you hope Obama Fails....

There it is..an idiot post by the board's resident drooling moron. Missing the point. Throwing assertions.
Hey, how did Obmaa's hasty withdrawal from Iraq work out? How about his other foreign policy triumphs?
I dont have to hope Obama fails. He's already failed.

Hasty? It was on bushes timeline that the Iraqis agreed on, and wanted us to leave. There is literally nothing you can say to get away from these facts.

Actually the fact is that the status of forces agreement had yet to be negotiated. Obama negotiated a tough deal the way he always does--he gave in. That is the only salient fact here. The peace was Obama's to screw up. And he did.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why do we have to do it? If we explore for oil domestically and let Europe live in the bed they made then why do we need to go after them at all unless they attack us like on 9/11? As I keep saying, while I'm against nation building in Afghanistan, I was totally for blasting the crap out of the Taliban for abetting Al Qaeda.

You're not getting it.
If we withdrew all out troops from the ME, left Israel to die at the hands of the Arabs, ceased buying ME oil it still wouldnt matter. The radical Muslims see our very existence as a problem. We are stopping the universal triumph of Islam over the world. They cannot stand that. They will attack us no matter what.

And we'll be there to fight them if they do. I don't see the advantage of our doing it while being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

And Europe would take the brunt of their wrath as they already do even with us there. Let the Euroweenies be the front line.

We can either fight them in the ME or we can watch our cities get bombed. What is your preference?

 

[kaz]

there it is....a partisan post by a partisan who is basically saying the left hates america because they didnt support a war that wasnt needed.

Its almost like saying you hope Obama Fails....

LOL, "partisan" is what you are doing. Rabbi isn't doing it for a party like you, he believes what he is saying. I may not agree with him, but he's clearly not saying what he is for the benefit of the Republican party. You would have to be a complete and utter moron to think that's why he's arguing it. Um...oh...I get it now...

You're doing it for your political party. When W was in power, Iraq was bad. Suddenly it was good under Obama, except the part under W, that is still bad. Even though it's good now. See how that work? You're a Democrat. Dude, buy a dictionary.

Iraq was always a mistake, under Bush and under Obama. It was never good because you were told this would happen. There was a reason People said there was no link between Saddam and AQ. Now we see why. But the right and some others wanted a shortterm victory because it made them feel better. ( which is exactly the GOP platform)

As for Rabbi...he is a rightwing water carrier. Partisan as the day is long and basically dislikes anything that has to do with the left.

Yes, your attacks on Obama are scathing. Well, I'm sure they would be if you ever made one...

And seriously, if you think Rabbi wouldn't be arguing for the Democrats if they were arguing for his Middle East policy, you're too stupid to breathe.

 

[The T]

There it is..an idiot post by the board's resident drooling moron. Missing the point. Throwing assertions.
Hey, how did Obmaa's hasty withdrawal from Iraq work out? How about his other foreign policy triumphs?
I dont have to hope Obama fails. He's already failed.

Hasty? It was on bushes timeline that the Iraqis agreed on, and wanted us to leave. There is literally nothing you can say to get away from these facts.

Actually the fact is that the status of forces agreement had yet to be negotiated. Obama negotiated a tough deal the way he always does--he gave in. That is the only salient fact here. The peace was Obama's to screw up. And he did.

And we are seeing the result...

 

[kaz]

You're not getting it.
If we withdrew all out troops from the ME, left Israel to die at the hands of the Arabs, ceased buying ME oil it still wouldnt matter. The radical Muslims see our very existence as a problem. We are stopping the universal triumph of Islam over the world. They cannot stand that. They will attack us no matter what.

And we'll be there to fight them if they do. I don't see the advantage of our doing it while being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

And Europe would take the brunt of their wrath as they already do even with us there. Let the Euroweenies be the front line.

We can either fight them in the ME or we can watch our cities get bombed. What is your preference?

That's a false dilemma fallacy. If we aren't in their shit all the time, but we take the threat seriously and respond strongly to any attack or even an attempt at an attack, I see no reason to believe it's worse than being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

 

[Plasmaball]

There it is..an idiot post by the board's resident drooling moron. Missing the point. Throwing assertions.
Hey, how did Obmaa's hasty withdrawal from Iraq work out? How about his other foreign policy triumphs?
I dont have to hope Obama fails. He's already failed.

Hasty? It was on bushes timeline that the Iraqis agreed on, and wanted us to leave. There is literally nothing you can say to get away from these facts.

Actually the fact is that the status of forces agreement had yet to be negotiated. Obama negotiated a tough deal the way he always does--he gave in. That is the only salient fact here. The peace was Obama's to screw up. And he did.

Obama's Iraq plans vindicated as US agrees to pull out by 2011 - Americas - World - The Independent

it was already set by 2008 and we would be out by 2011.
Iraq?s Government, Not Obama, Called Time on the U.S. Troop Presence | TIME.com

In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

go **** yourself you lying sack of shit.

 

[Plasmaball]

Hasty? It was on bushes timeline that the Iraqis agreed on, and wanted us to leave. There is literally nothing you can say to get away from these facts.

Actually the fact is that the status of forces agreement had yet to be negotiated. Obama negotiated a tough deal the way he always does--he gave in. That is the only salient fact here. The peace was Obama's to screw up. And he did.

And we are seeing the result...

In one of his final acts in office, President Bush in December of 2008 had signed a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) with the Iraqi government that set the clock ticking on ending the war he’d launched in March of 2003. The SOFA provided a legal basis for the presence of U.S. forces in Iraq after the United Nations Security Council mandate for the occupation mission expired at the end of 2008. But it required that all U.S. forces be gone from Iraq by January 1, 2012, unless the Iraqi government was willing to negotiate a new agreement that would extend their mandate. And as Middle East historian Juan Cole has noted, “Bush had to sign what the [Iraqi] parliament gave him or face the prospect that U.S. troops would have to leave by 31 December, 2008, something that would have been interpreted as a defeat… Bush and his generals clearly expected, however, that over time Washington would be able to wriggle out of the treaty and would find a way to keep a division or so in Iraq past that deadline.”

yes that you are a drunk moron who shouldnt be allowed on the internet.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We can't win in Iraq because there was never a concept of victory. There was some idea that we could fight until radical islam just gave up and changed their minds. They will never just change their minds. It has to be the same kind of war waged on Germany and Japan. The kind of war the North waged on the South. Total war. War that lays waste to everything. Their very hope of a future has to be taken and their will broken. War until the enemy reaches unconditional surrender and accepts any terms of peace including reformation of islam.

As long as a war consists of winning hearts and minds, we will lose. It's very simple.

George Bush ended the opportunity for total war when he did not call for it on 9/12.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Then let's pump more oil here.

Let's get more from Canada......

That's already happening, and under Obama (shocked, shocked I tell you!)

Growing Marcellus production shifts pipeline activity
May 19, 2014
Growing Marcellus production shifts pipeline activity

Processing plants, pipelines worth $7 billion coming to Ohio
December 9, 2012
Processing plants, pipelines worth $7 billion coming to Ohio - Drilling - Ohio

 

[The Rabbi]

And we'll be there to fight them if they do. I don't see the advantage of our doing it while being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

And Europe would take the brunt of their wrath as they already do even with us there. Let the Euroweenies be the front line.

We can either fight them in the ME or we can watch our cities get bombed. What is your preference?

That's a false dilemma fallacy. If we aren't in their shit all the time, but we take the threat seriously and respond strongly to any attack or even an attempt at an attack, I see no reason to believe it's worse than being in their yard propping up despotic regimes.

You mean like we responded to the last 5 terror attacks? They don't send faxes telling us where they're planning to hit. We can only be reactive doing that. I'd rather be proactive and bar them from using areas for staging etc.

 

[GISMYS]

WE ""HAD"" WON IN IRAQ UP UNTILL obama CHOSE TO CUT AND RAN!!! WILL WE DO THE SAME IN AFGAN???

 

[Plasmaball]

LOL, "partisan" is what you are doing. Rabbi isn't doing it for a party like you, he believes what he is saying. I may not agree with him, but he's clearly not saying what he is for the benefit of the Republican party. You would have to be a complete and utter moron to think that's why he's arguing it. Um...oh...I get it now...

You're doing it for your political party. When W was in power, Iraq was bad. Suddenly it was good under Obama, except the part under W, that is still bad. Even though it's good now. See how that work? You're a Democrat. Dude, buy a dictionary.

Iraq was always a mistake, under Bush and under Obama. It was never good because you were told this would happen. There was a reason People said there was no link between Saddam and AQ. Now we see why. But the right and some others wanted a shortterm victory because it made them feel better. ( which is exactly the GOP platform)

As for Rabbi...he is a rightwing water carrier. Partisan as the day is long and basically dislikes anything that has to do with the left.

Yes, your attacks on Obama are scathing. Well, I'm sure they would be if you ever made one...

And seriously, if you think Rabbi wouldn't be arguing for the Democrats if they were arguing for his Middle East policy, you're too stupid to breathe.

he wouldnt be.....

As for Obama...We have wiretapping, extending The PA and ndaa that should have been removed. You have a mandating of Health insurance that never should of happened. Libya which really wasn't our issue at all. Killing Americans without due process was a huge red flag. Appointing certain people to the head of things like the FCC or Food and drug which shows a blatant conflict of interest. ( see Net neutrality)

So the reality is you never asked or just havent paid attention...

 

[The Rabbi]

WE ""HAD"" WON IN IRAQ UP UNTILL obama CHOSE TO CUT AND RAN!!! WILL WE DO THE SAME IN AFGAN???

We already are. Obama announced a date definite for pull out. All the Taliban have to do is wait until that date.

 

[Plasmaball]

WE ""HAD"" WON IN IRAQ UP UNTILL obama CHOSE TO CUT AND RAN!!! WILL WE DO THE SAME IN AFGAN???

We already are. Obama announced a date definite for pull out. All the Taliban have to do is wait until that date.

all Obama did was state what Bush already agreed to when he signed SOFA. Liar

 

[JakeStarkey]

We can't win in Iraq because there was never a concept of victory. There was some idea that we could fight until radical islam just gave up and changed their minds. They will never just change their minds. It has to be the same kind of war waged on Germany and Japan. The kind of war the North waged on the South. Total war. War that lays waste to everything. Their very hope of a future has to be taken and their will broken. War until the enemy reaches unconditional surrender and accepts any terms of peace including reformation of islam.

As long as a war consists of winning hearts and minds, we will lose. It's very simple.

George Bush ended the opportunity for total war when he did not call for it on 9/12.

 

[JakeStarkey]

As long as a war consists of winning hearts and minds, we will lose. It's very simple.

So we don't fight in the ME.