Zone1 *Water Into Wine*

[hobelim]

Why didn't Jesus come out and say what you "believe" he was trying to say? Why would he hide it?

Why? Perhaps because there was no freedom of expression and people were stoned, imprisoned, enslaved, maimed, and killed for trivial reasons every day. The fact is that he did.

The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it (Jesus H. Christ) buried it again.....

 

[ding]

Why? Perhaps because there was no freedom of expression and people were stoned, imprisoned, enslaved, maimed, and killed for trivial reasons every day. The fact is that he did.

The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it (Jesus H. Christ) buried it again.....

The fact is that he didn't. According to you his message at the wedding was benign and non-threatening to anyone. Why would he have been worried about saying that?

 

[Clyde 154]

Why? Perhaps because there was no freedom of expression and people were stoned, imprisoned, enslaved, maimed, and killed for trivial reasons every day. The fact is that he did.

The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it (Jesus H. Christ) buried it again.....

There is a reason the Kingdom cannot be found here on earth. The kingdom is not of this world........it rests within the Spirit of those who would follow God, Its a spiritual kingdom, that resides within the heart of those who obey the laws of the kingdom (Luke 17:20-21).

Those who can't find the kingdom are looking in the wrong places........this world. Its all about the eternal salvation of the Spirit that is made in the image of God, its never been about the flesh.....we are to feed the spirit in truth, not the flesh and things that were created to decay and fade back into the dust from which they came. Jesus chastised the 5000 He had just feed with the fish and the loaves for not comprehending the difference. -- John 6:26-27




Jesus was the promised King, but His kingdom was not of this world. (John 18:33-37). The Messiah was promised to rule over David's Kingdom (Isa.9:6-7), Jesus was made both Lord and Christ of the kingdom (Acts 2:36) Jesus used the present tense when speaking about the Kingdom, the Kingdom would arrive with power in the lifetime of those listening to Jesus teach (Mark 9:1)

The church and kingdom are used in a synonymous manner, Jesus refers to the church and the kingdom being one and the same in Matthew 16:18-19. But there is a literal difference between the 2. Church translated from the original Greek, "ekklesia" which means "the called out". Called out from what? The world (John 18:15-27). Those who are part of the Church that Christ was given by the Father are called out from the world and into the kingdom of light. Church therefore refers to the WHO. Kingdom refers to the Where, to where are the Church members called out? A place governed by the laws established by the Words of Jesus. (John 12:48)

The church of Christ Jesus did not exist until people were called out from the world to enter the kingdom of God/Heaven/Jesus Christ (Col.1:13-14).....all are synonymously used. Church, Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Christ.

Daniel stated that the Messiah, Jesus, would receive a kingdom (Daniel 7:13-14)......not found it, but it was given to Him by the Father along with ALL AUTHORITY IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH (Matthew 28:18-20)....those who are conveyed into the Kingdom (Col.1:13).......are conveyed by being baptized in the Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost, you are baptized INTO CHRIST JESUS (Romans 6:3-7, Gal.3:27-29), then you become joints heirs of the promises made to father Abraham. Within this kingdom there is neither Jew nor Greek, Bond or Free, Male or Female.......all are equal in the eyes of God.

 

[hobelim]

The fact is that he didn't. According to you his message at the wedding was benign and non-threatening to anyone.

Jesus performed this first sign that he was the expected messiah described in Deuteronomy 18:18 by turning the bitter waters of affliction under brutal Roman occupation into the finest wine known to man by revealing a new way to understand the figurative words and hidden subjects of the Law that reveal the wisdom of God, demonstrate that his Law remains in effect and in full force, that death was not the end, that God is intimately involved in the daily lives of even the least important, those who rise from death to life do it now, and the effects of his judgments are not to come in some distant future but are actually happening now for good or evil, a blessing or a curse, every single day and night which is clearly reflected by the abject insanity of their enemies and their own unshakable peace of mind and joy of life.,

"I will give you treasures hidden in dark vaults, hoarded in secret places, that you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israels who summons you by name."

Jesus revealing what was hidden by God was irrefutable proof that God was with him.

Why would he have been worried about saying that?

Jesus wasn't worried about saying anything. His disciples, under his orders and through the gospels, deliberately hid what actually happened in a way to divert their superstitious and antisemitic enemies by using metaphors, analogies, homonyms, similes, hyperbole, etc. which flew right over their intellectual grasp, just like it remains above your grasp, which proves that it still works like a charm! (Outside are those who only love and practice deceit)

"The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, (treasures hidden in dark vaults, hoarded in secret places) buried it again"

 

[ding]

Jesus performed this first sign that he was the expected messiah described in Deuteronomy 18:18 by turning the bitter waters of affliction under brutal Roman occupation into the finest wine known to man by revealing a new way to understand the figurative words and hidden subjects of the Law that reveal the wisdom of God, demonstrate that his Law remains in effect and in full force, that death was not the end, that God is intimately involved in the daily lives of even the least important, those who rise from death to life do it now, and the effects of his judgments are not to come in some distant future but are actually happening now for good or evil, a blessing or a curse, every single day and night which is clearly reflected by the abject insanity of their enemies and their own unshakable peace of mind and joy of life.,

"I will give you treasures hidden in dark vaults, hoarded in secret places, that you may know that I am the Lord, the God of Israels who summons you by name."

Jesus revealing what was hidden by God was irrefutable proof that God was with him.



Jesus wasn't worried about saying anything. His disciples, under his orders and through the gospels, deliberately hid what actually happened in a way to divert their superstitious and antisemitic enemies by using metaphors, analogies, homonyms, similes, hyperbole, etc. and flew right over their intellectual grasp. Just like it's above your grasp. Still works like a charm!

"The kingdom of Heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it, (treasures hidden in dark vaults, hoarded in secret places) buried it again"

That's quite the conspiracy theory you have going there. Jesus was a freedom fighter against Roman occupation.

So I am wondering why you keep trying to bring God into this. That doesn't make any sense at all. You've linked Jesus to a political movement and to God's laws. It's bizarre.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus was a freedom fighter against Roman occupation.

Thats not what I said. Pay attention!

So I am wondering why you keep trying to bring God into this.

This a religious discussion. You have your edible triune God. I have my God. I'm a believer. Lets see if your mangod can bring down fire from the sky like my God has already done..

That doesn't make any sense at all. You've linked Jesus to a political movement and to God's laws. It's bizarre.

Bizarre? I didn't stutter or write in some mysterious strange unknown coded language.

Your beliefs are bizarre. Like I said, "Outside are all those who only love and practice deceit"

So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

 

[ding]

Bizarre? I didn't stutter or write in some mysterious strange unknown coded language.

Your beliefs are bizarre. Like I said, "Outside are all those who only love and practice deceit"

So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

I can't explain it any clearer than I already have. It's bizarre that you link Jesus to politics and God. Your entire argument is that everything that Christians interpret about the life and ministry of Jesus - his sacrificing himself for the sins of man - is wrong. But the Christian interpretation being linked to God makes sense. Whereas your interpretation - that the life and ministry of Jesus was all about political activism against Roman occupation - doesn't make sense being linked to God. Every single interpretation of yours is about Jesus being a political activist making political activist statements. So your linkage to God and your seeing these accounts as holy doesn't make sense.

 

[ding]

Thats not what I said. Pay attention!



This a religious discussion. You have your edible triune God I have my God. I'm a believer. Lets see if your mangod can bring down fire from the sky like my God has already done..



Bizarre? I didn't stutter or write in some mysterious strange unknown coded language.

Your beliefs are bizarre. Like I said, "Outside are all those who only love and practice deceit"

So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

Your quoting the bible while arguing Jesus was a political activist making political activist statements doesn't make sense.

 

[hobelim]

Your quoting the bible while arguing Jesus was a political activist making political activist statements doesn't make sense.

Makes no sense? Thats a shame. Jesus did live in a theocracy subjected to Roman fascism. What do you think he was doing? Hanging out with sinners drunk and claiming to be God?

So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

Thanks for demonstrating the terrifying and deeply disturbing consequences for setting aside the Law of God, worshipping a lifeless matzo, eating the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, and misleading other to do the same which amounts to murder.

You have your reward already!

 

[ding]

Makes no sense? Thats a shame.

So he drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life"

Thanks for demonstrating the terrifying and deeply disturbing consequences for setting aside the Law of God, worshipping a lifeless matzo, eating the flesh of unclean creatures that do not ruminate, and misleading other to do the same which amounts to murder.

You have your reward already!

Yes, your position makes absolutely no sense at all. You link every account of Jesus to political activism and you link Jesus to God. Makes no sense at all.

 

[JohnDB]

The large clay pots filled with water were the ones used for ceremonial hand washing. The Jews had so many laws concerning hand washing that it was ridiculous....they even went so far as to measure the water that a person should use to wash their hands.

Remember Jesus's words to his mother?
"My time has not yet come"
It was a reference to the foreshadowing of the miracle He performed of turning water (the codified Law) into wine (joy).

The foreshadowing of the New Covenant is even in the guest remarks of "You saved the best for last" is clearly a description of the New, Last Covenant.

The New Covenant is not geared towards outward signs of faith but of truly clean hands, a clean heart, and clear conscience towards God. Which for some is much more difficult to obtain than merely outward signs of righteousness. The Pharisees all had fulfilled the elements of the Law but had hearts of stone. (And the people knew that)
The New Covenant means that now even the poorest among us has access to God and can have a personal relationship with Him...that God, as Jesus, has a full understanding of how and why people fall short of perfection and is able to offer forgiveness WHEN they repent and stop their deliberate sinning.
That's a true joy. The God of the Universe knows me, sees me, helps me, hears me and for some inexplicable reason loves me in spite of my past bad behavior. That's better than being a regular at the White House Breakfast.

Spin whatever you want....I know the Boss!

 

[hobelim]

Yes, your position makes absolutely no sense at all. You link every account of Jesus to political activism and you link Jesus to God. Makes no sense at all.

Maybe you should repent for saying stupid things about your false edible Jesus so that my God might heal your mind so that it can grasp grade school concepts, even if it never could.

If you don't, just disregard it and concentrate on all of the crap in your head about Jesus that defies reality, requires blind faith, makes no sense at all, yet you profess to believe. Right. lol

 

[ding]

Maybe you should repent for saying stupid things about your false edible Jesus so that my God might heal your mind so that it can grasp grade school concepts, even if it never could.

If you don't, just disregard it and concentrate on all of the crap in your head about Jesus that defies reality, requires blind faith, makes no sense at all, yet you profess to believe. Right. lol

I think I'd rather just keep pointing out your ridiculous linkage between God, Jesus and politics.

Tell me more about Jesus' political activism that were hidden as accounts of him performing miracles.

 

[ding]

Jesus did live in a theocracy subjected to Roman fascism.

So Jesus was handed over to the Romans by the Jews because Jesus was a political activist for the Jews against the Romans?

Makes no sense at all.

 

[hobelim]

Tell me more about Jesus' political activism that were hidden as accounts of him performing miracles.

Raising the dead was symbolic of liberation by restoring sanity and individuality to the brainwashed dead like you eaten by a self negating multiplicity, You know, "we we we"

Jesus telling his disciples "remove his grave clothes" was Jesus telling his disciples to deprogram Lazarus, removing the causes of his stumbling into a tomb, the thoughts, beliefs, irrational superstitions, and degrading practices that bound and enslaved him to sin, death.

Nothing could've been more threatening to the celestial powers and potentates of darkness

 

[ding]

Raising the dead was symbolic of liberation by restoring sanity and individuality to the brainwashed dead like you eaten by a self negating multiplicity, You know, "we we we"

Jesus telling his disciples "remove his grave clothes" was Jesus telling to deprogram Lazarus.

So your belief is that Jesus spoke in code to avoid detection by the Romans and he chose to spread fictitious stories of the many miracles he performed to keep a low profile to avoid detection by the Romans. Doesn't that sound stupid when you hear someone else say it?

 

[hobelim]

So your belief is that Jesus spoke in code to avoid detection by the Romans and he chose to spread fictitious stories of the many miracles he performed to keep a low profile to avoid detection by the Romans. Doesn't that sound stupid when you hear someone else say it?

No, your summation sounds stupid. Jesus spoke in code like all criminals do to share his message with the lost sheep of the House of Israel and them alone. His teaching was encapsulated in these fantastical stories to both curse their enemies and compel those teachings unadulterated into the future when they would be revealed again to the world.

 

[ding]

Jesus: We can't come right out and speak about rebellion.

Peter: I know we can spread stories that are coded.

Jesus: Good idea. That way we can keep a low profile.

Peter: What stories should we spread.

Jesus: Let's tell stories about miracles I performed. That should keep us off of the Romans radar.

 

[ding]

No, your summation sounds stupid. Jesus spoke in code like all criminals do to share his message with the lost sheep of the House of Israel and them alone. His teaching was encapsulated in these fantastical stories to both curse their enemies and compel those teachings unadulterated into the future when they would be revealed again to the world.

Every single interpretation you make concerning the miracles performed by Jesus and the parables told by Jesus is about political activism.

So tell me another lie. This time make it match your previous lies.

 

[hobelim]

Every single interpretation you make concerning the miracles performed by Jesus and the parables told by Jesus is about political activism.

So.

What do you suppose casting out demons, raising the dead, curing the paralyzed, and spreading the Good News of the Kingdom of God is about if not replacing the existing world order where the most corrupt selfish deceitful violent and ruthless 1% control things with a more just, equitable, truthful, transparent, and humane way to structure society with the most dedicated to truth, the most fruitful, compassionate, intelligent, and wise in charge?

Who would have a problem with that? The subjects of condemnation in the divine menu?

You and all the creepy people who would realize that God judges them all, in spite of their grandiose estimations of themselves, as unclean creatures, foul and loathsome lowlifes whose vile and loathsome flesh, teaching, defiles and contaminates the mind and whose practices, however resplendent, are spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually degrading?

So.