Was slavery condemned in the Bible?

[presonorek]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

It means if a male has sexual intercourse with another male then he should be killed by some method. The methodology is not specified. Some people in African/Middle Eastern countries are still sentenced to death for male on male sexuality.

It is extremely realistic for an ancient culture from that same geographic area to have those same customs. I am pretty sure they killed at least some male homosexuals in ancient Israel. For the life of me I cannot understand why any sane literate human would think otherwise. It makes me want to use the liar liar pants on fire argument. This verse is abundantly clear both from a literary and historical perspective.

 

[presonorek]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

Do you approve of killing gays?

I don't agree with strictly enforcing it but I do agree with the law being on the books. Just kill about 2 or 3 about once every 5 years. The rest would probably get the point and keep their mouth shut about transgender this, born that way this and all the other bull nonsense we have coming out of every orafice of entertainment that we have available today. All we had to do as a country is kill 2 or 3 homosexuals every 5 years or so then we would have a much more beautiful and less divisive culture than we have today. You don't have to kill all of them just a minuscule amount. Way less than 0.01% of them.

The people who now hate gays wouldn't even have a reason to hate them. They wouldn't even hear about it except once every five years. We would even have the luxury of saying we are tolerant of homosexuals. Now we have hatred fueling both sides of the debate. I fully agree with killing two or three homosexuals per year just as tribute to keep everybody calm on the topic.

 

[presonorek]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

Do you approve of killing gays?

I even approve today of the death penalty for any adult male convicted of statutory rape of a male child under the age of 18. I don't care if it was consensual or not. If a disgusting perverted sodomite sticks his dick inside of a kid's ass then he should die. I don't care what anybody says. That is disgusting and he should die the most painful and horrible death. That law should be strictly enforced. Kill every single sodomite that pulls that. Kill them hard as hell.

 

[irosie91]

Do you have any citations showing they killed people for being gay?

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

Jesus was tried----ostensibly by bibilical law via the Sanhedrin and
ACQUITTED-----his death sentence came from ROME for a violation of
roman law----to wit ---SEDITION AGAINST ROME-----try reading the book

Did you try reading my link? It was written by an attorney who was also a theologian. You keep challenging my IQ and you aren't smart enough to understand this is not a gay thread. This thread is about slavery.

I have never been impressed with attorneys. I have never challenged your IQ.
I have never suggest that this is a gay thread. To whom do you address your
comment?

 

[Indeependent]

I just showed it to you when I explained how if they had been commanded to kill people for being gay, they would have killed gay people. But since no gay people were put to death for being gay, then obviously they were not commanded to kill gay people.

That’s logic. Do you need for me to explain how it is logic?

There is a command that if mankind lies with men, they shall both be put to death. You've yet to prove that nobody was ever killed.

No. That’s you interpretation of what it says.

Just to be clear though, you want me to prove to you that something didn’t happen?

Think about what you are asking.

It seems that if you believe it did happen you should be able to prove it did happen. Right?

Because I’m scratching my head trying to figure out how I can prove something didn’t happen.

God commanded something that, in plain English, you blame me for repeating. Then you demand that I prove that the people were killed for it. Seems that you're in no better position than I am. If it makes you feel better to believe it, you certainly have the Right to do so. But, you've proven nothing.

But you didn’t just repeat it. You made an interpretation. One that was wrong. God did not command gays to be killed. Those words do not exist in the Bible.

Semantics will get you nowhere. in Leviticus 20:13 the Bible says, “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.” So, does the Bible require us today to put homosexuals to death?

It is a sin by which they are to be put to death. I'm not interpreting anything. Who has the authority to put them to death? Now, if I presume to make that statement, then I would have interpreted the Bible. The Bible also says that wages of sin is death (I think it's in Romans and I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment.)

Our society does not put people to death for being sinners. Homosexuality? Some may argue something different as that verse is very specific about the penalty. This thread is about slavery, so I'm not too concerned about who has that authority. I leave that to the those who DO have authority. I found this that I agree with about 80 percent worth since you want me interpret the Bible:

"Also important to understand is that the civil laws within the Mosaic Law were meant for Israel under a theocracy. God’s chosen people, living in the Promised Land, following God as their King, were to adhere to a system of civil laws with divinely prescribed punishments. The priests taught the laws, the rulers enforced the laws, and the judges meted out punishments as necessary. The rule of Leviticus 20:13, “They are to be put to death,” was given to duly appointed government officials, not to ordinary citizens or vigilantes. The civil laws of the Old Testament were never intended to apply to other cultures or other times."

Does the Bible require the death penalty for homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

HERE is where that author and I disagree:

When the colonists came here, they had a vision and a belief. Winthrop's sermon, A Model of Christian Charity, goes in depth of what our Rights, Responsibilities and Duties would be in the New World. A few paragraphs from that sermon jumped out at me and I will quote it for you:

"First, in regard of the more near bond of marriage between Him and us, wherein He hath taken us to be His, after a most strict and peculiar manner, which will make Him the more jealous of our love and obedience. So He tells the people of Israel, you only have I known of all the families of the earth, therefore will I punish you for your transgressions."

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf

So, that paragraph contained sentences (among some others) like this one:

"We are entered into covenant with Him for this work. We have taken out a commission..."

I looked for a biblical reference to this language. This popped up:

Exodus 19 (Verses 10-13 NKJV) Then the LORD said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes.{11} "And let them be ready for the third day. For on the third day the LORD will come down upon Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. {12} "You shall set bounds for the people all around, saying, 'Take heed to yourselves that you do not go up to the mountain or touch its base. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. {13} 'Not a hand shall touch him, but he shall surely be stoned or shot with an arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live.' When the trumpet sounds long, they shall come near the mountain."

(Verses 16-18 NKJV) Then it came to pass on the third day, in the morning, that there were thunderings and lightnings, and a thick cloud on the mountain; and the sound of the trumpet was very loud, so that all the people who were in the camp trembled. {17} And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. {18} Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire. Its smoke ascended like the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mountain quaked greatly."

Whether we agree with it or not, like it or not, the colonists saw themselves as the Israelites of the Bible sent here to the New Jerusalem to fulfill their destiny. In a Christian nation, the laws of God do apply; the only part of the law that was ever actually done away was sacrifices because Christ was the perfect lamb. His death on the cross abolished that portion of the law.

I bring your attention to verse 13 above. There we see a death penalty sentence being demanded by God. Beyond what it says, I cannot interpret it for you. Feel free to tell us it doesn't mean what it says it means.

Only the Sanhedrin could sentence someone to death.
Post 2nd Temple destruction, so many people were liable by Jewish law to the death penalty that the Sanhedrin decided to disband.
Thius goes the people who worship the “Angry” God.
We refuse to actually execute people.

 

[buttercup]

Kidnapping in biblical times was FOR THE PURPOSE of obtaining slaves and it
was considered a serious crime (sorta like a felony) Legal Biblical slavery is not chattel slavery. It is more like indentured servitude of a limited term. It was
considered a really lousy situation.

Beating a human was alright because it wasn't chattel slavery?

This makes it justified?

Female Hebrews could be sold by their fathers into slavery for life.

That's okay?

Only kidnapping Hebrews was punishable. Non-Hebrew slaves had no such rules. Leviticus 25:44

If a male slave sold himself into mslavery to pay debt, and had kids while enslaved, the kids became his master's property permanently.

That's okay?

How about rules in exodus: If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.




Treating your human slaves "less bad" than they were traditionally treated....makes it OKAY for what the literal God of belief condones?



Religion

you are not entirely correct-----the issues are EXPOUNDED upon in the
Talmud which actually rules that INJURING A SLAVE in any way requires
that the slave be set free-----and paid for his time. The legal code of the
bible was-----according to scholars ----A WORK IN PROGRESS. ----that's
the basis of the weirdo idea of "tikkun" As to the issue of "permanent slavery"--
it is not clear to me that it was a fact for anyone

You missed the point, Rosie.

Slavery, at all, is wrong.

The Bible being a work in progress makes it not the inspired word of God, as an ipso facto, especially if it does (it does) condone beating your slave. Even if that's later amended in another, separate book, it's damning for the Bible being the "inspired word of God," as well as damning for objective morality as defined as grounded in God itself.

Then, the selling your daughters into slavery thing...the slaves being born into slavery thing...the different slavery rules for non-hebrews, as though non-hebrews don't deserve the same human rights....thing.

There really is no good argument for the way that the Bible condones slavery. That it's got some loopholes as compared to antebellum slavery is besides the point - it actually misses the point entirely.

Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not the inspired Word of God OR is that your personal belief?

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

 

[G.T.]

Beating a human was alright because it wasn't chattel slavery?

This makes it justified?

Female Hebrews could be sold by their fathers into slavery for life.

That's okay?

Only kidnapping Hebrews was punishable. Non-Hebrew slaves had no such rules. Leviticus 25:44

If a male slave sold himself into mslavery to pay debt, and had kids while enslaved, the kids became his master's property permanently.

That's okay?

How about rules in exodus: If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.




Treating your human slaves "less bad" than they were traditionally treated....makes it OKAY for what the literal God of belief condones?



Religion

you are not entirely correct-----the issues are EXPOUNDED upon in the
Talmud which actually rules that INJURING A SLAVE in any way requires
that the slave be set free-----and paid for his time. The legal code of the
bible was-----according to scholars ----A WORK IN PROGRESS. ----that's
the basis of the weirdo idea of "tikkun" As to the issue of "permanent slavery"--
it is not clear to me that it was a fact for anyone

You missed the point, Rosie.

Slavery, at all, is wrong.

The Bible being a work in progress makes it not the inspired word of God, as an ipso facto, especially if it does (it does) condone beating your slave. Even if that's later amended in another, separate book, it's damning for the Bible being the "inspired word of God," as well as damning for objective morality as defined as grounded in God itself.

Then, the selling your daughters into slavery thing...the slaves being born into slavery thing...the different slavery rules for non-hebrews, as though non-hebrews don't deserve the same human rights....thing.

There really is no good argument for the way that the Bible condones slavery. That it's got some loopholes as compared to antebellum slavery is besides the point - it actually misses the point entirely.

Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not the inspired Word of God OR is that your personal belief?

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

 

[buttercup]

you are not entirely correct-----the issues are EXPOUNDED upon in the
Talmud which actually rules that INJURING A SLAVE in any way requires
that the slave be set free-----and paid for his time. The legal code of the
bible was-----according to scholars ----A WORK IN PROGRESS. ----that's
the basis of the weirdo idea of "tikkun" As to the issue of "permanent slavery"--
it is not clear to me that it was a fact for anyone

You missed the point, Rosie.

Slavery, at all, is wrong.

The Bible being a work in progress makes it not the inspired word of God, as an ipso facto, especially if it does (it does) condone beating your slave. Even if that's later amended in another, separate book, it's damning for the Bible being the "inspired word of God," as well as damning for objective morality as defined as grounded in God itself.

Then, the selling your daughters into slavery thing...the slaves being born into slavery thing...the different slavery rules for non-hebrews, as though non-hebrews don't deserve the same human rights....thing.

There really is no good argument for the way that the Bible condones slavery. That it's got some loopholes as compared to antebellum slavery is besides the point - it actually misses the point entirely.

Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not the inspired Word of God OR is that your personal belief?

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

 

[G.T.]

You missed the point, Rosie.

Slavery, at all, is wrong.

The Bible being a work in progress makes it not the inspired word of God, as an ipso facto, especially if it does (it does) condone beating your slave. Even if that's later amended in another, separate book, it's damning for the Bible being the "inspired word of God," as well as damning for objective morality as defined as grounded in God itself.

Then, the selling your daughters into slavery thing...the slaves being born into slavery thing...the different slavery rules for non-hebrews, as though non-hebrews don't deserve the same human rights....thing.

There really is no good argument for the way that the Bible condones slavery. That it's got some loopholes as compared to antebellum slavery is besides the point - it actually misses the point entirely.

Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not the inspired Word of God OR is that your personal belief?

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

 

[buttercup]

Do you have any evidence that the Bible is not the inspired Word of God OR is that your personal belief?

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

 

[G.T.]

MY belief is besides the point, but yes that is my belief is that it's indeed NOT the inspired word of God.

The point is that it's a morally relativistic God. The caveman way of saying it is: "slavery ok then slavery bad"

I'm not gunna unga bunga, though.

And Rosie as well as Merri are making my point for me.

"it's because of the times"



DUH! It's because of the times. That IS, in fact, the entire point.

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...wasnt him merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

 

[buttercup]

There is a huge difference between God's perfect will, and what God allows to happen in this fallen world. Like most unbelievers, you make the mistake of conflating the two. There are moral laws or principles that are timeless, that never change. But instead of learning about those, you instead focus on temporal laws or customs that only exist because this is a fallen world. And then you falsely claim (or imply) that those temporal laws or customs is all there is. That is either ignorant or dishonest.

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

 

[G.T.]

No, the Laws of which I speak that condoned slavery are God commanded, according to the fairy tale. If hes speaking Laws that are not his will, they become his will - thats how that boils down.

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

Im not interested in propaganda. Im just pointing out that codifying how to treat slaves is a condoning OF slavery, and theres no two ways about that.

 

[buttercup]

No, God allows many things to happen, that does not mean God WANTS those things, obviously. That's why it's important to understand the difference between God's perfect will and what God allows to take place in this temporary age we're currently in.

You acted as if what God allows to take place was all there is. That is simply ignorant. If you want to know what God WANTS, listen to what Jesus said: Love your neighbor Treat others the way you want to be treated. Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, do justice, love mercy.... and He also said, "I have come to set the captives free." THAT is God's perfect will.

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

Im not interested in propaganda. Im just pointing out that codifying how to treat slaves is a condoning OF slavery, and theres no two ways about that.

You're not interested in anything, it appears, but your misguided preconceived ideas, that is obvious. You even ignored Jesus' words completely (who is God in the flesh) which stated how he feels about captivity. You don't care.

 

[G.T.]

God WILLED that slavery continue visa vie making Laws regarding how to engage in Slave holding and behave as a slave.

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

Im not interested in propaganda. Im just pointing out that codifying how to treat slaves is a condoning OF slavery, and theres no two ways about that.

You're not interested in anything, it appears, but your misguided preconceived ideas, that is obvious. You even ignored Jesus' words completely (who is God in the flesh) which stated how he feels about captivity. You don't care.

I dont disagree with what Jesus did LATER in time, AFTER God codified slavery prior.

You seem to wanna sweep under the rug that that whole Mosaic Law thing actually happened.

Sorry. Its not due to some magical lack of understanding...merely reading.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

There are illiterate people who keep arguing that those verses don't say what they say. What is surely be put to death? Seems simple enough to me.

Do you approve of killing gays?

Not my job. Can you not read what this thread is about?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood is guiltiness upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NASB

If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Leviticus 20:13 NIV

If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.

Leviticus 20:13 The Message

If a man lies with another man as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood guilt shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 MEV

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 ESV


If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 KJV


If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:13 NKJV

Anybody who is too retarded to understand Leviticus 20:13 is unworthy of being treated as a person capable of having Biblical discussions.

anyone who agrees with god that gays should be killed isn't worth talking to.

anyone who believes gays should be executed because their POS god told them to is a POS.

What would that make you? Illiterate for one thing. The topic is slavery.

 

[buttercup]

No, MANKIND screwed up this world and wanted to do things his own way. All the horrible crap in this world that causes harm to others is MANKIND's doing. God allows bad things to take place, but that does not mean it's what he wants us to do. You don't seem to be able to grasp that.

It's like a parent giving their teenager freedom to make his own choices, but of course a parent wants their kid to make GOOD, WISE choices. This is a fallen world, but it's just temporary. If people did not have the ability to make choices, then we would be nothing but robots, preprogrammed to only do what God wants. Do you not see how pointless that would be, not to mention wrong?

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

Im not interested in propaganda. Im just pointing out that codifying how to treat slaves is a condoning OF slavery, and theres no two ways about that.

You're not interested in anything, it appears, but your misguided preconceived ideas, that is obvious. You even ignored Jesus' words completely (who is God in the flesh) which stated how he feels about captivity. You don't care.

I dont disagree with what Jesus did LATER in time, AFTER God codified slavery prior.

You seem to wanna sweep under the rug that that whole Mosaic Law thing actually happened.

Sorry. Its not due to some magical lack of understanding...merely reading.

I was just correcting what you posted earlier, when you implied that the temporal laws and customs were all there is, which is blatantly wrong. If you want to talk about God's perfect will and what God actually wants, then look to heaven. Listen to the words of Jesus. Love, peace, joy, kindness, non-violence, etc.

Also, all of this is funny if you're an atheist, because according to your own worldview, morality is subjective. So you have no leg to stand on, unless you believe morality is objective. And if that's what you believe (as a small number of atheists do) you still have a problem because you have no way to account for it. Objective truths are not man-made. So which is it?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I posted what I saw in the Bible. Other than that, it is all pure speculation unless / until one of us or someone else posts facts that show otherwise. If God blessed his people for keeping his laws, I'd say people caught in the act were killed. If you can argue God did not keep his word, your position might be the right one.

It’s obvious you don’t know the requirements of Biblical evidence or testimony.
It’s nearly impossible by Biblical requirements to punish anyone for a crime.

And yet Jesus received the death penalty. It's obvious you never read that book. But continue on with your condescending narcissism.

Jesus was tried----ostensibly by bibilical law via the Sanhedrin and
ACQUITTED-----his death sentence came from ROME for a violation of
roman law----to wit ---SEDITION AGAINST ROME-----try reading the book

Did you try reading my link? It was written by an attorney who was also a theologian. You keep challenging my IQ and you aren't smart enough to understand this is not a gay thread. This thread is about slavery.

I have never been impressed with attorneys. I have never challenged your IQ.
I have never suggest that this is a gay thread. To whom do you address your
comment?

This is about slavery. Can you read?

 

[G.T.]

commanding how to treat slaves and commanding slaves how to act and calling it Law...

as opposed to making the Law "hey dont have slaves"

is condoning slavery.

you can obfuscate and such, its not very compelling buttercup. God commanded laws regarding slavery...was wasnt merely watching from a tree...he participated. He codified it.

Hahaha, you don't get this, at all. Don't be a brick wall by repeatedly ignoring God's perfect will (which is how it is in heaven, and in world to come) and what God allows to take place in this temporary fallen world. God WILL bring about that perfect world you long for. It is prophesied, and it will happen. But if you really want God's perfect will here and now, then I'm sure here are lots of things you'll have to change about yourself.

Im not interested in propaganda. Im just pointing out that codifying how to treat slaves is a condoning OF slavery, and theres no two ways about that.

You're not interested in anything, it appears, but your misguided preconceived ideas, that is obvious. You even ignored Jesus' words completely (who is God in the flesh) which stated how he feels about captivity. You don't care.

I dont disagree with what Jesus did LATER in time, AFTER God codified slavery prior.

You seem to wanna sweep under the rug that that whole Mosaic Law thing actually happened.

Sorry. Its not due to some magical lack of understanding...merely reading.

I was just correcting what you posted earlier, when you implied that the temporal laws and customs were all there is, which is blatantly wrong. If you want to talk about God's perfect will and what God actually wants, then look to heaven. Listen to the words of Jesus. Love, peace, joy, kindness, non-violence, etc.

Also, all of this is funny if you're an atheist, because according to your own worldview, morality is subjective. So you have no leg to stand on, unless you believe morality is objective. And if that's what you believe (as a small number of atheists do) you still have a problem because you have no way to account for it. Objective truths are not man-made. So which is it?

I didnt imply that, you made a flawed inference and youre still ranting about it.

Also, Im agnostic and no, I dont believe morality is subjective. Thats a whole nother topic, but Im glad you find it funny! Laughter is the best medicine!