Peterf
Active Member
True. Because no country other than the US has distorted and contorted the word "liberal" to the point where it can mean anything or nothing, just as users like Dragonlady wish.
Was JFK the last conservative democrat president?
- Thread starter Votto
- Start date
True. Because no country other than the US has distorted and contorted the word "liberal" to the point where it can mean anything or nothing, just as users like Dragonlady wish.
Peterf
Active Member
Imo JFK would be whatever it took to get elected. An early master of the content-free sound bite and a world-class opportunist. A worthy pupil of his evil father Joe Kennedy, whose guiding - and ony - principle was power for the Kennedys
Smilodonfatalis
Active Member
- May 5, 2013
- 745
- 126
- 28
Why are you still posting on this thread?
Our linked factual charts proved you were wrong.
Time for you to sit down and shut up.
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
- 10,872
- 2,040
yep, that's why the liberals/ Progressives OF TODAY have a need to CLAIM him as one of their own
he's everything they are not
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
Sure sounds like...'HELPING OTHERS done by the force of government and with taxation'
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
- 10,872
- 2,040
that's you liberals of today who voted for someone like Obama..
and what do we get out it, a brand new government ENTITLEMENT called, Ofailnocare you all CROW is going to help people in this country..and what we've seen so far, it's HURTING people instead
deal with it...you're all phonies about how you supposedly care more for people
Last edited:
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
- 10,872
- 2,040
oh gawd, you people on wanting to CLAIM other people
that's a liberal thing
they tried to claim Obama was like Reagan, Lincoln, Clinton, god...
spare us the crystal ball crap
Wildman
Gold Member
insane = liberal/liarberal, left of Hitler, Castro, Pol Pot, Mao Sedung and many others of their ilk
JakeStarkey
Diamond Member
- Aug 10, 2009
- 168,037
- 16,540
- 2,165
- Banned
- #270
The TeaPs are not might folks at all, you are right. And most other fellow Republicans feel as I do.
You, politically, are not my kind of folk.
You are a danger to the general good of all Americans.
JakeStarkey
Diamond Member
- Aug 10, 2009
- 168,037
- 16,540
- 2,165
- Banned
- #271
The question was answered. Freeman is a loon, like you, and his interpretation is not mainstream and critical. So no you don't get "just once more."
Your OP, like almost all of your OPs, is fail.
Tis what tis.
I'd have to say that's probably the most realistic and accurate analysis so far. Kennedy was great at speaking and imaging and understood all that. Astute and deeply intelligent, although as far as courage on standing up for principles... not so much. He seems to have taken the dynamics of backroom dealing, where you negotiate, and public policy, where you stand firm, and got them reversed.
Absolutely true we've distorted the word, but Dragonlady has it faithfully defined. The Joe McCarthy and Lush Rimjob demagogue types have attempted to turn it into a demonology term, simply as a political power play. Sadly, a lot of people here have bought it, rendering the term, and objective dialogue, pointless.
It's always a good plan to yank someone out of the past, put them in a world of half a century later and declare, "look, he's one of us!"
It actually works, if you suspend the idea of linear time...
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
Yea, Obama should have done what every preceding president did on health care...NOTHING.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform
2008
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, DelawareÂ’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
More
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007
Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.
Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.
Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.
I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Frum: A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush
Posted: September 15, 2009, 4:30 PM by NP Editor
Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy
Ron Brownstein ably sums up the Census BureauÂ’s final report on the Bush economy.
Bottom line: not good.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during BushÂ’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked.
What went wrong?
In a word: healthcare.
Over the years from 2000 to 2007, the price that employers paid for labor rose by an average of 25% per hour. But the wages received by workers were worth less in 2007 than seven years before. All that extra money paid by employers disappeared into the healthcare system: between 2000 and 2007, the cost of the average insurance policy for a family of four doubled.
Exploding health costs vacuumed up worker incomes. Frustrated workers began telling pollsters the country was on the “wrong track” as early as 2004 – the year that George W. Bush won re-election by the narrowest margin of any re-elected president in U.S. history.
Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.
Explaining the impact of health costs on wages is essential to protecting the economic reputation of the last Republican administration and Congress.
If Republicans stick to the line that the US healthcare system works well as is – that it has no important problems that cannot be solved by tort reform – then George W. Bush and the Congresses of 2001-2007 will join Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover in the American memory’s hall of economic failures. Recovery from that stigma will demand more than a tea party.
Read more: David Frum: Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy - Full Comment
Last edited:
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
- 10,872
- 2,040
Yea, Obama should have done what every preceding president did on health care...NOTHING.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform
2008
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delaware’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
More
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007
Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.
Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.
Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.
I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Frum: A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush
Posted: September 15, 2009, 4:30 PM by NP Editor
Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy
Ron Brownstein ably sums up the Census Bureau’s final report on the Bush economy.
Bottom line: not good.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked.
What went wrong?
In a word: healthcare.
Over the years from 2000 to 2007, the price that employers paid for labor rose by an average of 25% per hour. But the wages received by workers were worth less in 2007 than seven years before. All that extra money paid by employers disappeared into the healthcare system: between 2000 and 2007, the cost of the average insurance policy for a family of four doubled.
Exploding health costs vacuumed up worker incomes. Frustrated workers began telling pollsters the country was on the “wrong track” as early as 2004 – the year that George W. Bush won re-election by the narrowest margin of any re-elected president in U.S. history.
Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.
Explaining the impact of health costs on wages is essential to protecting the economic reputation of the last Republican administration and Congress.
If Republicans stick to the line that the US healthcare system works well as is – that it has no important problems that cannot be solved by tort reform – then George W. Bush and the Congresses of 2001-2007 will join Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover in the American memory’s hall of economic failures. Recovery from that stigma will demand more than a tea party.
Read more: David Frum: Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy - Full Comment
Please, Obamafailinsurance scam isn't going to FIX SHIT
It's HURTING people instead of helping anything (where's you all care for them)?...and they wasted BILLIONS of our money in this ECONOMY and can't even get a frikken website working
you fell for Obama and all his failures...live with it...the rest of us are and have been for SIX painful years
Last edited:
Bfgrn
Gold Member
- Apr 4, 2009
- 16,829
- 2,496
- 245
Yea, Obama should have done what every preceding president did on health care...NOTHING.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform
2008
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, DelawareÂ’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
More
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007
Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.
Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.
Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.
I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Frum: A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush
Posted: September 15, 2009, 4:30 PM by NP Editor
Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy
Ron Brownstein ably sums up the Census BureauÂ’s final report on the Bush economy.
Bottom line: not good.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during BushÂ’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked.
What went wrong?
In a word: healthcare.
Over the years from 2000 to 2007, the price that employers paid for labor rose by an average of 25% per hour. But the wages received by workers were worth less in 2007 than seven years before. All that extra money paid by employers disappeared into the healthcare system: between 2000 and 2007, the cost of the average insurance policy for a family of four doubled.
Exploding health costs vacuumed up worker incomes. Frustrated workers began telling pollsters the country was on the “wrong track” as early as 2004 – the year that George W. Bush won re-election by the narrowest margin of any re-elected president in U.S. history.
Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.
Explaining the impact of health costs on wages is essential to protecting the economic reputation of the last Republican administration and Congress.
If Republicans stick to the line that the US healthcare system works well as is – that it has no important problems that cannot be solved by tort reform – then George W. Bush and the Congresses of 2001-2007 will join Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover in the American memory’s hall of economic failures. Recovery from that stigma will demand more than a tea party.
Read more: David Frum: Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy - Full Comment
Please, Obamafailinsurance scam isn't going to FIX SHIT
It's HURTING people instead of helping anything (where's you all care for them)?...and they wasted BILLIONS of our money in this ECONOMY and can't even get a frikken website working
you fell for Obama and all his failures...live with it...the rest of us are and have been for SIX painful years
I thought you said you don't just parrot Fox News propaganda? You lied.
The ACA is a good law. As much as you right wing traitors want America to fail, it will succeed.
Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
- 70,230
- 10,872
- 2,040
Yea, Obama should have done what every preceding president did on health care...NOTHING.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform
2008
The U.S. health care system is in crisis. Health care costs too much; we often get too little in exchange for our health care dollar; and tens of millions of Americans are uninsured.
Our economy loses hundreds of billions of dollars every year because of the diminished health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. Rising health care costs undermine the ability of U.S. firms to compete internationally, threaten the stability of American jobs, and place increasing strain on local, state, and federal budgets. As health care costs continue to rise faster than wages, health insurance becomes more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day.
Yet, the recent financial services meltdown has led some people to suggest that we cannot afford health reform and that fixing our broken health care system will have to wait once again. But waiting comes with a price. The crisis worsens every day that we do not act. Premiums will continue to rise; Americans will continue to pay more for less-generous health coverage; and fewer employers will offer health insurance to their workers.
We must reform our struggling health system not in spite of our economic crisis, but rather because of the impact health care has on the American economy. The economic and social impact of inaction is high and it will only rise over time.
Economic Cost
The economic cost of failing to fix our broken health care system is greater than the upfront expense of comprehensive health reform. In 2006, our economy lost as much as $200 billion because of the poor health and shorter lifespan of the uninsured. This is by most estimates as much as, if not greater than, the public costs of ensuring all Americans have quality, affordable, health coverage. The economies in California, Texas, and Florida suffer most from productivity loses stemming from the uninsured. Yet, Delaware’s economy loses more per uninsured person -- over $6,800 per uninsured resident.
Affordability
As health care costs continue to grow faster than wages, health insurance will become more and more unaffordable for more and more American families every day. The financial burdens associated with health care and health insurance will only get worse over time without action.The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
More
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2007
Health care: an issue that cries out for leadership.
Health care in this country is in shambles. At a cost of almost $12,000 a year for the average family, the system is bankrupting families and it's bankrupting companies - specifically my old industry. Take General Motors. They're currently paying out $1,525 per vehicle for health care. Compare that to the $201 Toyota is paying and it sounds even more absurd. And what about those families and individuals who can't afford insurance at all? Junior breaks his arm and all of a sudden, a fall off a bike is an $8,000 trip to the ER.
Despite all of this, none of our politicians will touch the issue. Oh sure, they'll talk about it during campaign season, but once the votes are cast, it's the forgotten issue again. The last time anyone proposed real reform was in 1993, and that plan went nowhere. Fourteen years later, Hillary Clinton's failed plan is still used as an excuse to continue ignoring the problem. That's disgraceful.
I suggest you listen carefully to the '08 candidates' "plans" for health care. Let's see if any of them have the political courage to really tackle it this time around. I don't want band-aid ideas either. I want concrete solutions - and I want to hold these guys to their promises.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Frum: A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush
Posted: September 15, 2009, 4:30 PM by NP Editor
Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy
Ron Brownstein ably sums up the Census Bureau’s final report on the Bush economy.
Bottom line: not good.
On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked.
What went wrong?
In a word: healthcare.
Over the years from 2000 to 2007, the price that employers paid for labor rose by an average of 25% per hour. But the wages received by workers were worth less in 2007 than seven years before. All that extra money paid by employers disappeared into the healthcare system: between 2000 and 2007, the cost of the average insurance policy for a family of four doubled.
Exploding health costs vacuumed up worker incomes. Frustrated workers began telling pollsters the country was on the “wrong track” as early as 2004 – the year that George W. Bush won re-election by the narrowest margin of any re-elected president in U.S. history.
Slowing the growth of health costs is essential to raising wages – and by the way restoring Americans’ faith in the fairness of a free-market economy.
Explaining the impact of health costs on wages is essential to protecting the economic reputation of the last Republican administration and Congress.
If Republicans stick to the line that the US healthcare system works well as is – that it has no important problems that cannot be solved by tort reform – then George W. Bush and the Congresses of 2001-2007 will join Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover in the American memory’s hall of economic failures. Recovery from that stigma will demand more than a tea party.
Read more: David Frum: Healthcare costs destroyed the Bush economy - Full Comment
Please, Obamafailinsurance scam isn't going to FIX SHIT
It's HURTING people instead of helping anything (where's you all care for them)?...and they wasted BILLIONS of our money in this ECONOMY and can't even get a frikken website working
you fell for Obama and all his failures...live with it...the rest of us are and have been for SIX painful years
I thought you said you don't just parrot Fox News propaganda? You lied.
The ACA is a good law. As much as you right wing traitors want America to fail, it will succeed.
I don't watch fox or any news station
and MILLIONS of people aren't thinking Obamafailnocare is a good law..that's just you government depended Obama cult worshippers WISHFUL thinking
and talk about a parrot..that would be you a sheep for the Democrat party
Last edited:
Peterf
Active Member
Sweden's biggest newspaper, Dagens Nyheter, describes itself as "oberoende liberal" - independent liberal. Where 'liberal' means nothing more than 'non-socialist'. Curious that in the US this same word is coming to mean the exact opposite.
Peterf
Active Member
I think this issue is based on a serious misunderstanding. It IS Obamacare and it works very well.
The Obamas have doctors available nearby around the clock. Wherever Mr Obama goes a fully equipped ambulance is present. This set up is the absolute best medical care given to anyone on the planet and you Americans should be very proud to be paying for it.
So, please, no more knocking of Obamacare which does exactly what it says. After all it is NOT called Schumuckcare or Little-People-of-No-Importance-Care so, stop whining.
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