Was Constitutional Convention Really a Liberal Coup?

[Ringel05]

That response is all the proof needed....... rdean.......

for 3rd time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of irrational to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Take your Thorazine.......

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Take your Thorazine.......

for 4th time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of "irrational" to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

PS: off your meds insults are the oldest most common insults of all on internet. Congrats that you find them meaningful as an adultl!

 

[Ringel05]

That response is all the proof needed....... rdean.......

for 3rd time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of irrational to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Take your Thorazine.......

or 4th time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of "irrational" to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Repeating a demand for proof that you would simply deny or explain away would be an exercise in frustration and futility on my part as I learned long ago not to argue with demagogues.......

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That response is all the proof needed....... rdean.......

for 3rd time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of irrational to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Take your Thorazine.......

or 4th time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of "irrational" to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Repeating a demand for proof that you would simply deny or explain away would be an exercise in frustration on my part as I learned long ago not to argue with demagogues.......

conservatives are demogogues becuase they are smarter than you? ever see a conservative have to run from a debate? what does that teach you?

 

[Ringel05]

That response is all the proof needed....... rdean.......

for 3rd time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of irrational to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Take your Thorazine.......

or 4th time: if true you would be so afraid to present an example of "irrational" to make your point. What does your fear teach you?

Repeating a demand for proof that you would simply deny or explain away would be an exercise in frustration on my part as I learned long ago not to argue with demagogues.......

conservatives are demogogues becuase they are smarter than you? ever see a conservative have to run from a debate? what does that teach you?

Since when did I stipulate Republicans/conservatives only......? rdean.......

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

wrong of course. Jefferson and Madison formed Republican Party in 1792. Democratic-Republican Party was not formed until next century. Sorry to rock your world.

My apologies. You are correct on the early state of that party. Senility is creeping in.

 

[regent]

We might do better using the terms liberal and conservative. We should also recognize that we in America were building a nation in a period of vast changes taking place in America and Europe. Those changes would be centered about new perspectives on people, governments and science.




















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[EdwardBaiamonte]

The Bill of Rights is not an expansive document, but a restrictive one.

yes the fear of liberal central govt was so great that a Bill of Rights was passed to severely limit central govt power, but it was not enough to confine govt to the enumerated powers and thus today we have an ever growing govt no matter how much it has already grown.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

wrong of course. Jefferson and Madison formed Republican Party in 1792. Democratic-Republican Party was not formed until next century. Sorry to rock your world.

My apologies. You are correct on the early state of that party. Senility is creeping in.

and more importantly please keep in mind that Jefferson's Republican Party was based on limited govt just like the modern Republican Party. The Democratic idea of big govt is in no way connected to our founding principles

 

[regent]

[/QUOTE]
You are absolutely correct. the new American government was not created for limited government.
George's monarchy was created for the king and noble class and not the serfs. The framers were done with that type of government so they created a limited government to avoid the monarch types of governments. Later, as liberals grew secure with their government they increased the aid to the serfs through laws and aid. Today the serfs still vote liberal, and the noble class vote Republican. One only has to read the Declaration of Independence to get an idea of what the liberals had in mind for their government.





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[Natural Citizen]

The liberals of that time were not the "liberals" of our time. See "Classical Liberalism".

obviously I was using today's definitions so the reader would not be burdened with having to know definitions from 200 years ago.

Today's definitions technically remain the same. Liberalism is the most misuded term in our political lexicon. I cringe every time I see someone call someone else a liberal. Or a conservative for that matter.

 

[Natural Citizen]

It mostly was it seems. The Articles had been a huge success at limiting central govt. They contained amendment procedures, to amend the Articles, but every time the liberals tried to use them to expand the power of the central govt they failed. That is when they finally gave up and went outside the ratification process and subversively called their own convention. Who showed up? Liberals who wanted to expand the power of central govt. As soon as the conservatives saw how dangerous the new Constitution was [ Jefferson and Madison, mostly] they formed the Republican Party in 1792 to fight against liberal big govt, and Republicans have been carrying on the battle ever since.

A good read would be "Instructions of the Inhabitants of Malden, Massachusetts to their Representatives in Congress" - May 27, 1776

Similarly, the "Essex Result" (report of the 1778 Convention)

 

[Natural Citizen]

One thing is for sure, the anti-federalsts were correct in so many of their predictions.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The liberals of that time were not the "liberals" of our time. See "Classical Liberalism".

obviously I was using today's definitions so the reader would not be burdened with having to know definitions from 200 years ago.

Today's definitions technically remain the same.

The same as what? Modern-day "liberals" have nothing in common with the classical liberalism of the late 18th Century, save for some requisitioned terminology..

 

[Natural Citizen]

The liberals of that time were not the "liberals" of our time. See "Classical Liberalism".

obviously I was using today's definitions so the reader would not be burdened with having to know definitions from 200 years ago.

Today's definitions technically remain the same.

The same as what? Modern-day "liberals" have nothing in common with the classical liberalism of the late 18th Century, save for some requisitioned terminology..

They're statists. Not liberal. As are most so-called conservatives in America today.

Libreralism is good conservatism. Statism is statism any way you slice it.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The liberals of that time were not the "liberals" of our time. See "Classical Liberalism".

obviously I was using today's definitions so the reader would not be burdened with having to know definitions from 200 years ago.

Today's definitions technically remain the same.

The same as what? Modern-day "liberals" have nothing in common with the classical liberalism of the late 18th Century, save for some requisitioned terminology..

They're statists. Not liberal. As are most so-called conservatives in America today.

Libreralism is good conservatism. Statism is statism any way you slice it.

Trump just massively cut taxes to cut the state !! Donald is anti state and we love him!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

One thing is for sure, the anti-federalsts were correct in so many of their predictions.

yes had Federalists not told so many lies Constitution never would have been ratified.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Trump just massively cut taxes to cut the state !! Donald is anti state and we love him!

Well, no, it was a tax increase. It's a gradual one which won't be realized until its full effect in about 7 years.

They adopted chained cpi into the bill.

But whuheva. That's another topic.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

It mostly was it seems. The Articles had been a huge success at limiting central govt. They contained amendment procedures, to amend the Articles, but every time the liberals tried to use them to expand the power of the central govt they failed. That is when they finally gave up and went outside the ratification process and subversively called their own convention. Who showed up? Liberals who wanted to expand the power of central govt. As soon as the conservatives saw how dangerous the new Constitution was [ Jefferson and Madison, mostly] they formed the Republican Party in 1792 to fight against liberal big govt, and Republicans have been carrying on the battle ever since.

A good read would be "Instructions of the Inhabitants of Malden, Massachusetts to their Representatives in Congress" - May 27, 1776

Similarly, the "Essex Result" (report of the 1778 Convention)

what would we learn from these?

 

[Natural Citizen]

what would we learn from these?

Truth rather than conjecture.