Wall Street Surges As Workers Lose Their Jobs and Their Homes

[sealybobo]

See now, you confuse me. You usually hit the liberal talking points right on the head, and you apparently support Obama. But then you come in and hit all the typical Ron Paul talking points, which are anything BUT liberal.

How can you be a tax and spend liberal, and advocate free markets, getting rid of the Fed (which bankrolls spending), and letting failing banks fail?

Young Republicans feeling left out - Washington Post - MSNBC.com

Republicans haven't always been so disconnected. A quarter-century ago, Reagan charmed young voters and won 59 percent of their vote in 1984. In 1992, on the heels of the Reagan Revolution, voters under 30 split their allegiance about evenly between the two major parties. But every presidential cycle since then, Democrats have gained ground. This year, according to the Post-ABC poll, 44 percent of those under 30 call themselves Democrats, and only 18 percent identify as Republicans.

Paulitics. You are showing that you look at the Democratic party through old man glasses. The younger voters don't see what you see and they aren't buying it just because you say it is so. I think they are looking at what's going on through unbias eyes. You are talking about 80's democrats when you say tax and spenders. Parties change. The GOP has changed for the worse. Agreed? So why is it impossible to think the Democrats cant change for the better? And look at these people like Charles. I'll bet you anything if he doesn't vote for McCain, in 2012 he will be campaigning for Romney. I assume this because he has already forgotten that Bob Barr is a hypocritical scumbag adulterer who went after Clinton for what he himself was doing. Even before Bill lied, Barr was going after Clinton. So Charles proved himself to be willing to forgive Conservatives but never liberals. So screw him. To me, he'll never vote for the right guy. Look at all the people furious with the GOP but ready to vote for McCain just because he says he is different. A maverick? Even though he voted with Bush 95% of the time? And changes his opinion like the weather changes in Michigan?

And if you are going to vote 3rd party forever, I sort of commend that. But I don't think it is wise. I think its about as wise as not voting at all. Because the system isn't set up for a 3rd party. So unless I hear thousands of people clammering for a 3rd party guy, we should probably vote for the lesser of two evils, because I don't want to put the worse guy in office, which is what Nader helped do in 2000. Funny though it helped Clinton when Perot ran.

 

[editec]

The Fed is partially privately owned. Carnege, jp morgan and rockafellor started it. Control the money and you control the country and people.

The Fed loves the further we go into debt. All income tax, which is unconstitutional, goes to paying some of the interest on the debt.

Congress, senate and President didn't approve of bear stearns bail out. They just did it. That was our money. Now we are further in debt. Their excuse? It would have colapsed the economy if they didn't do it. BULLSHIT.

the banking house of cards would have collapsed, I think.

So much for free markets.

The markets haven't been free, since at least 1913. On that point the libertarians, the gold bugs, the far right, the far left and an increasingly alarming number of average patriotic Americans can agree, I think.

If these banks predatory lended for 8 yrs unregulated, that was delay and bush. The Fed should take the hit.

How? The Fed has no money

The rich bankers who own our monetary system should bail bear stearn with their own personal wealth. Bush, chaney, haloburton, telecoms, exxon, top 1 percent, etc should all pay us americans back what they stole for the last 8 yrs.

We have nothing to lose but our chains?

The question is, are enough of us prepared to live without those chains?

Frankly I doubt it.

It is virtually impossible to live outside the system enough not to suffer if it collapses under its own corrupted weight.

Yes brother, it is time to take America back.

Take it back?

Are you under the impression we ever owned it, or was that a rhetorical device?

I'm with ya' in spirit, I just don't think that freeing the slaves (that would be 99.99% of us, BTW) would survive the transition period very well.

Hell looks to me like about half the US population is having a hell of a time just surviving this fibrilating economy.

Busting it entirely to rebuild it into something entirely different would make mincemeat of most of us.

We suffer from national economic STOCKHOLM SYNDROME​

 

[sealybobo]

the banking house of cards would have collapsed, I think.



The markets haven't been free, since at least 1913. On that point the libertarians, the gold bugs, the far right, the far left and an increasingly alarming number of average patriotic Americans can agree, I think.




How? The Fed has no money




We have nothing to lose but our chains?

The question is, are enough of us prepared to live without those chains?

Frankly I doubt it.

It is virtually impossible to live outside the system enough not to suffer if it collapses under its own corrupted weight.



Take it back?

Are you under the impression we ever owned it, or was that a rhetorical device?

I'm with ya' in spirit, I just don't think that freeing the slaves (that would be 99.99% of us, BTW) would survive the transition period very well.

Hell looks to me like about half the US population is having a hell of a time just surviving this fibrilating economy.

Busting it entirely to rebuild it into something entirely different would make mincemeat of most of us.

We suffer from national economic STOCKHOLM SYNDROME​

I really can't argue with you. If we tried to take back America, "the man" would just jack up gas to $10 a barrell and tell us it was our fault and we would run straight to government, aka the man, and beg them to save us. Then they would just take it right back.

 

[editec]

I really can't argue with you. If we tried to take back America, "the man" would just jack up gas to $10 a barrell and tell us it was our fault and we would run straight to government, aka the man, and beg them to save us. Then they would just take it right back.

What would happen is such a crises of cofidence that the money that's here would flee from our shores.

We got into this mess one boneheaded policy at a time, and I think, if we're going to reverse that trend we're going to have back out of it at about the same dismal pace.

I'd love to snap my fingers and come up with a brilliant overnight solution, but few of us would live to enjoy my brilliant solutions, I think.

 

[sealybobo]

What would happen is such a crises of cofidence that the money that's here would flee from our shores.

We got into this mess one boneheaded policy at a time, and I think, if we're going to reverse that trend we're going to have back out of it at about the same dismal pace.

I'd love to snap my fingers and come up with a brilliant overnight solution, but few of us would live to enjoy my brilliant solutions, I think.

Socialize healthcare & oil
Abolish income tax and only have direct taxes.
Have our dollar once again backed by gold
Pay down the national debt (thats a toughy). But when it's done, end the Federal Reserve. We managed before the bankers took over America, so we can do it again without them. They offer nothing and love it when the national debt doubles every 4 years. Shit, just stop paying them. Viva revolution!!!
Stop spending so much on defense.
Make politics a part time job again.
End the burocracy that is government. My aunt works for the Wayne County Community mental health. There is a massive building in downtown Detroit filled with secretaries and burocrats that don't do anything related to mental health. It has become a giant cash cow. Can you imagine how many government employees there are across the country like this? hundreds of thousands?
Pass a law that a CEO can't make more than $5 million a year. Do you know my boss just told me that the CEO of Fanny May or Freedy Mack made $20million last year? Is that a joke or what?
End welfare abuse (about 50% of it is abuse)
yada yada.

Yes, you can't do everything overnight, but we ignore the major problems this country has because they distract us with abortion and gay marriage and stupid things that don't really matter. I swear the GOP loves it that families are in trouble because it gives them a wedge issue to talk about. And meanwhile half of them are gay themselves.

 

[sealybobo]

slap tariffs on imports. I love it how they say, "we can't afford". We can afford whatever we want because the dollar is worth what they say it is worth. Its more complicated than that, but you know what I mean.

For example, we did just fine buying from Ford, GM and Chrysler all these years. Why did we NEED to have Toyota and Honda come in and ruin the country?

Car Manufacturing is clearly an industry that is vital to our economy. Look at Michigan and it's surrounding states. Look at the economy now across the entire country.

Clearly the GOP's vision is not working. But what they will say is that we need to adjust because we can't stop from going global. Well we can stop whatever we want. If we say no imported food from China, that will actually help. Sure you will pay more for it, but then the Fed's can just work their magic and adjust rates or whatever it is they do to keep up with inflation.

It's a game. We are being played!!!! And these morons argue in favor of the filthy rich that use us all like pawns.

OK, now I'm rambling.

 

[sealybobo]

I heard the other day that when Bush got into office, they de-regulated the mortgage industry so much that almost every states attorney general tried to block the new rules, but they were overruled by the GOP Congress and President. So much for "let the states decide". They only say that when it works in their favor.

So anyways, democratic politicians warned of the sub prime crash that was coming. That's because they saw it back when John McCain was a part of the Keating 5 S&L scandal. Oh sure wikipedia says he was cleared of any wrong doing, but what happened back then is happening right now, and John McCain is for it again!!

In other words, he didn't learn his lesson!!!

It's maddening to argue with people on the right because I know what they did and how it ruined America. And they have the balls to say it is Pelosi or Harry Reed? HA HA!!

 

[editec]

Really, I could have sworn the Democrats had been in control of Both houses of congress for 2 years now. Silly me.

Do you not understand what that REALLY means, or are you just yanking chain, here?

Serious question.

 

[sealybobo]

Really, I could have sworn the Democrats had been in control of Both houses of congress for 2 years now. Silly me.

Answer her Charlie.

 

[Care4all]

Really, I could have sworn the Democrats had been in control of Both houses of congress for 2 years now. Silly me.

a year and a half.....next january of '09 will be a year....

 

[Charles_Main]

a year and a half.....next january of '09 will be a year....

Ok a year in the half, still what have the done in that time?

Oh and don't even start with Veto BS, Bush has only used 2 Vetos ever, and one of those was with a republican congress.

 

[Charles_Main]

He had to rush back to Washington to veto a Terry Shiavo bill. Glad he's concentrating on the issues that effect all Americans....

Thanks for proving my point, he has only used a Veto one time with the Dems running congress.

By the way, I think he was a RETARD to veto that bill.

 

[Chris]

I got it! I'm a Daily Show Democrat. Not too proud to admit when the dems screw up, but clearly it is the republicans that are ruining America.

Bush has almost single handedly destroyed America. He has ruined our economy by ignoring American Energy Independence and by borrowing $700 billion dollars from the Chinese to fund the occupation of Iraq.

 

[Charles_Main]

Bush has almost single handedly destroyed America. He has ruined our economy by ignoring American Energy Independence and by borrowing $700 billion dollars from the Chinese to fund the occupation of Iraq.

You do realize our Total Debt is 11 trillion right.

 

[midcan5]

"What accounts for the seemingly irrational response of the stock market to this dismal news? In a basic sense, the answer is to be found more in politics than in economics.

This began in earnest with Reagan, after killing the air controller's union, corporations started to downsize, as it was called then. I witnessed this firsthand. Read Dean Baker's book noted below. Today corporations are firing or outsourcing to save money, these saving affect our economy negatively but they contribute to corporation's bottom line and equal high dividends for executives and some stock holders. You have to remember capitalism, aka dog eat dog economics is for the workers, socialism, or let's bail out our dumb buddies, is for the rich. But many believe the opposite! LOL


CEPR - America Since 1980: A Right Turn Leading to a Dead End

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/United-States-since-World-Since/dp/0521677556/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216778072&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: The United States since 1980 (The World Since 1980): Dean Baker: Books[/ame]

The Conservative Nanny State

 

[sealybobo]

Thanks for proving my point, he has only used a Veto one time with the Dems running congress.

By the way, I think he was a RETARD to veto that bill.

charles, tomorrow I will provide proof but I believe bush vetoed zero bills until the dems took over, and the he has vetoed tons of bills.

I could be wrong, but literally I think zero from 2000 to 2006 and dozens since the dems took over.

maybe one or two from 2000 to 2006 but I can almost remember his first one and it was like 2007, but don't quote me on that until I can research it.

 

[sealybobo]

Bush has almost single handedly destroyed America. He has ruined our economy by ignoring American Energy Independence and by borrowing $700 billion dollars from the Chinese to fund the occupation of Iraq.

he got a lot of help from the gop congress run by tom delay.

saying bush did it alone lets mccain off the hook. he voted with delay/bush 95 percent of the time. don't forget.

 

[Charles_Main]

charles, tomorrow I will provide proof but I believe bush vetoed zero bills until the dems took over, and the he has vetoed tons of bills.

I could be wrong, but literally I think zero from 2000 to 2006 and dozens since the dems took over.

maybe one or two from 2000 to 2006 but I can almost remember his first one and it was like 2007, but don't quote me on that until I can research it.

Bush has used his veto powers 11 times in total 12 if you count a pocket veto. 1 of those was before the Dems took office, so it is not DOZENS as you say, It is one less than a dozen

I was wrong earlier, I Was looking at an older story, and I am very sorry for being wrong. When I am wrong I will always admit to it.

The Thing is as presidents go 12 times is a rather small amount. In fact it is the lowest number of times since harding.

Check here to see all Presidential Vetoes
List of United States presidential vetoes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clinton used it 37 times, Bush 1 used it 44 times, Reagan used it 78 times.

The most ever was Grover Cleavland with a whopping 414 times.

Bush did not use his first veto until 5.5 years into his terms. It only makes sense he would use it more when the Dems are in Control considering he is a Republican.

What has he vetoed?

1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).

2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of, H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.

3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.

4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).

5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.

6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).

7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[18] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).

8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[19]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.

9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[20][21] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.

10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[22][23] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.

11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6421, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[24] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.

12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[25] Overriden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overriden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Public Law 110-275 over the President's veto.

So he has vetoed 11 Bills under the Democrat congress.

 

[random3434]

4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.r. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act Of 2007 ("schip"). Override Attempt Failed In House, 273-156 (286 Votes Needed).

6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.r. 3043, Departments Of Labor, Health And Human Services, And Education, And Related Agencies Appropriations Act Of 2008. Override Attempt Failed In House, 277-141 (279 Votes Needed).

7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.r. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act Of 2007.[18] Override Attempt Failed In House, 260-152 (275 Votes Needed).

Damn!

 

[Charles_Main]

You have to remember though, that politicians on both sides often load up Bills with unrelated Pork spending BS, in an attempt to either force the president to veto a good bill, or to slip their spending through. I would be willing to bet, though I do not claim to know for sure, that most of those bills, he vetoed because of the spending issue.

The veto is not in and of itself a evil thing or anything, It is a legit and needed power of the president to check the congresses power

A very good reason to pass line Item veto powers if you ask me.