VW fined up to 18 billion for rigging clean air tests for their vehicles.

[zaangalewa]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

 

[jc456]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

this:

"How is a software able to hide emissions?"

 

[flacaltenn]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

You should actually READ some of the linked articles. Computers in cars control almost every aspect of ignition and combustion. They even control the effective level of the emissions controls. In THIS case, the emission controls were FULLY enabled while the car was being tested and then turned down to lower efficiency during normal running of the vehicle. (presumably to get better performance out of the engine) The car KNOWS it's being tested -- because the test operators PLUG IN to the on-board computer to check all the settings.. Pretty devious eh???

 

[zaangalewa]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

You should actually READ some of the linked articles. Computers in cars control almost every aspect of ignition and combustion. They even control the effective level of the emissions controls. In THIS case, the emission controls were FULLY enabled while the car was being tested and then turned down to efficiency during normal running of the vehicle. The car KNOWS it's being tested -- because the test operators PLUG IN to the on-board computer to check all the settings.. Pretty devious eh???

If I ask you "Do you have a milllion dollar?" and you say "yes" then this is a test in your eyes? If I have here in Germany a result of the european test (the old german test was much better) of 3.4 Liters per hundred kilometers then I think in the reality it will need in worst case about 50% more. 5-6 Liters if I'm lucky. How do you calculate? Miles per Gallon I heard once ... I see - in the example I would calculate instead of the official 83 miles per gallon about 50-60 real miles per gallon. If they say a hybrid drives with 1.9 Liters per km (150 miles per gallon) then I am not astonished to read in a newspaper it are only 35 miles per gallon, not 150. In this case the governments of Europe are manipulating with laws.

 

[jc456]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

You should actually READ some of the linked articles. Computers in cars control almost every aspect of ignition and combustion. They even control the effective level of the emissions controls. In THIS case, the emission controls were FULLY enabled while the car was being tested and then turned down to lower efficiency during normal running of the vehicle. (presumably to get better performance out of the engine) The car KNOWS it's being tested -- because the test operators PLUG IN to the on-board computer to check all the settings.. Pretty devious eh???

again, so where are the experts to ask the question, is the car in the normal operating state, let's see the printouts from software logs? They don't think to do that? I don't think you can hide carbon.

 

[flacaltenn]

Half a Million Volkswagens Found to Contain Emissions-Hiding Software

It are 11 million cars worldwide. This means the USA speaks not about 18 billion Dollar - if everywhere are comparable laws - but about $36000*11000000= $396 billion. Meanwhile I think everyone on this planet lost every sense for reality. How is a software able to hide emissions? A software can only try to produce a most optimized result of the run of a machine. I have the feeeling everyone speaks only nonsense in the moment - including the idiots from VW.

You should actually READ some of the linked articles. Computers in cars control almost every aspect of ignition and combustion. They even control the effective level of the emissions controls. In THIS case, the emission controls were FULLY enabled while the car was being tested and then turned down to efficiency during normal running of the vehicle. The car KNOWS it's being tested -- because the test operators PLUG IN to the on-board computer to check all the settings.. Pretty devious eh???

If I ask you "Do you have a milllion dollar?" and you say "yes" then this is a test in your eyes?

That COULD be part of problem why the EPA didn't catch this issue for 10 years. Could be part of the deal to get VW to build in the USA for all I know.. YES -- there is that much corruption.. But INCOMPETENCE is a much bigger issue in our Federal Govt.. So -- I pick stupidity...


But here in the US -- cars are tested every year (or two years) by the owners and that software was active MILLIONS of times helping the cars to pass annual inspections. Not a million dollars involved there..

 

[rdean]

The OP must have had a extra bowl of stupid this morning. GERMANS {they live in Europe idiot} cheated on a test in Europe. {kind of a whole different country idiot} and are NOT a Republican led government.

The Clean Air and Water act was signed by Richard Nixon and pushed by Republicans. So the OP has the wrong country the wrong people and gives credit wrong.

Does he lie or is he just stupid? YOU decide. I vote stupid.

Zeeshan Shah, 39, of Fulton, Maryland, said that he bought a Volkswagen Diesel Passat 2015 model in July after he totaled his Jetta two years ago.

San Francisco resident Marsha Riggs, who owns a 2009 Jetta SportWagen, said she was shocked. "I bought this car because I thought it was clean," she said. "And it's not clean." She had been happy with the car but now doubts she'd buy another Volkswagen. "They sort of compromised that trust," she said.

-------------------------------

Who said Germans are a Republican led government?

And remember, it's Republicans who complain about the cost of clean air and clean water.

Finally, it wasn't the anti science GOP of today who are the same Republicans who started NASA. Everyone knows that.

Seems to me you might be a bit confused. Actually, you are fucking delusional.

Unless YOU can SHOW where the GOP wrote the software in ANOTHER country for those cars to cheat you got NOTHING. So show us the LINK idiot.

I guess you have a point somewhere beside the one on top of your tiny little head, but I don't know what it is. It's simply too obscure for me to waste the time to try and figure it out.

The OP must have had a extra bowl of stupid this morning. GERMANS {they live in Europe idiot} cheated on a test in Europe. {kind of a whole different country idiot} and are NOT a Republican led government.

The Clean Air and Water act was signed by Richard Nixon and pushed by Republicans. So the OP has the wrong country the wrong people and gives credit wrong.

Does he lie or is he just stupid? YOU decide. I vote stupid.

Zeeshan Shah, 39, of Fulton, Maryland, said that he bought a Volkswagen Diesel Passat 2015 model in July after he totaled his Jetta two years ago.

San Francisco resident Marsha Riggs, who owns a 2009 Jetta SportWagen, said she was shocked. "I bought this car because I thought it was clean," she said. "And it's not clean." She had been happy with the car but now doubts she'd buy another Volkswagen. "They sort of compromised that trust," she said.

-------------------------------

Who said Germans are a Republican led government?

And remember, it's Republicans who complain about the cost of clean air and clean water.

Finally, it wasn't the anti science GOP of today who are the same Republicans who started NASA. Everyone knows that.

Seems to me you might be a bit confused. Actually, you are fucking delusional.

Those POOR folks.. Their anger should be directed to the EPA who listed those cars as COMPLETELY GREEN. And allowed the fraud to continue. When VW can dupe the EPA for about 10 years ---- Why the Fuck do those buyers need them?

HOW CAN THEY BE THAT INCOMPETENT?
Now the issue MAY BE that those cars ARE as green as everyone says. But then why would V- Dub go to such lengths to boogie with the software?

Let Car and Driver or Consumer Reports do the emissions testing and fuel mileage estimates..

They are environmental marxist democrats and too stupid to check for themselves. Low Information voters or parrots... Both are on the same level of intelligence. I am sure RDean has his Obama phone and his welfare check..

AS for VW cheating, Democrats were beaten in their own power and control game. Now they are trying like hell to save face that they were duped and shown incompetent.

Come on. If Republicans ever discovered such a cheat, they wouldn't say a thing and you know it.

You're kidding right? If Repubs ever discovered that the EPA was punked for over a decade by a car manufacturer because they were too incompetent to do their own INDEPENDENT testing -- there would be hearings, and ATTEMPTS to fire the jerks in charge. OR like I said -- to make the case that consumers might be better off with Car and Driver or Consumer Reports doing the testing and calls to cut the EPA down to a MANAGEABLE and ACCOUNTABLE organization..

So what did Republicans do under Bush? Oh, that's right, it's always the Democrat's fault. Got it.

 

[flacaltenn]

The OP must have had a extra bowl of stupid this morning. GERMANS {they live in Europe idiot} cheated on a test in Europe. {kind of a whole different country idiot} and are NOT a Republican led government.

The Clean Air and Water act was signed by Richard Nixon and pushed by Republicans. So the OP has the wrong country the wrong people and gives credit wrong.

Does he lie or is he just stupid? YOU decide. I vote stupid.

Zeeshan Shah, 39, of Fulton, Maryland, said that he bought a Volkswagen Diesel Passat 2015 model in July after he totaled his Jetta two years ago.

San Francisco resident Marsha Riggs, who owns a 2009 Jetta SportWagen, said she was shocked. "I bought this car because I thought it was clean," she said. "And it's not clean." She had been happy with the car but now doubts she'd buy another Volkswagen. "They sort of compromised that trust," she said.

-------------------------------

Who said Germans are a Republican led government?

And remember, it's Republicans who complain about the cost of clean air and clean water.

Finally, it wasn't the anti science GOP of today who are the same Republicans who started NASA. Everyone knows that.

Seems to me you might be a bit confused. Actually, you are fucking delusional.

Unless YOU can SHOW where the GOP wrote the software in ANOTHER country for those cars to cheat you got NOTHING. So show us the LINK idiot.

I guess you have a point somewhere beside the one on top of your tiny little head, but I don't know what it is. It's simply too obscure for me to waste the time to try and figure it out.

Zeeshan Shah, 39, of Fulton, Maryland, said that he bought a Volkswagen Diesel Passat 2015 model in July after he totaled his Jetta two years ago.

San Francisco resident Marsha Riggs, who owns a 2009 Jetta SportWagen, said she was shocked. "I bought this car because I thought it was clean," she said. "And it's not clean." She had been happy with the car but now doubts she'd buy another Volkswagen. "They sort of compromised that trust," she said.

-------------------------------

Who said Germans are a Republican led government?

And remember, it's Republicans who complain about the cost of clean air and clean water.

Finally, it wasn't the anti science GOP of today who are the same Republicans who started NASA. Everyone knows that.

Seems to me you might be a bit confused. Actually, you are fucking delusional.

Those POOR folks.. Their anger should be directed to the EPA who listed those cars as COMPLETELY GREEN. And allowed the fraud to continue. When VW can dupe the EPA for about 10 years ---- Why the Fuck do those buyers need them?

HOW CAN THEY BE THAT INCOMPETENT?
Now the issue MAY BE that those cars ARE as green as everyone says. But then why would V- Dub go to such lengths to boogie with the software?

Let Car and Driver or Consumer Reports do the emissions testing and fuel mileage estimates..

They are environmental marxist democrats and too stupid to check for themselves. Low Information voters or parrots... Both are on the same level of intelligence. I am sure RDean has his Obama phone and his welfare check..

AS for VW cheating, Democrats were beaten in their own power and control game. Now they are trying like hell to save face that they were duped and shown incompetent.

Come on. If Republicans ever discovered such a cheat, they wouldn't say a thing and you know it.

You're kidding right? If Repubs ever discovered that the EPA was punked for over a decade by a car manufacturer because they were too incompetent to do their own INDEPENDENT testing -- there would be hearings, and ATTEMPTS to fire the jerks in charge. OR like I said -- to make the case that consumers might be better off with Car and Driver or Consumer Reports doing the testing and calls to cut the EPA down to a MANAGEABLE and ACCOUNTABLE organization..

So what did Republicans do under Bush? Oh, that's right, it's always the Democrat's fault. Got it.

Deanie --- once your topics get into details about combustion computers and NOx gasses -- it's probably best if you just watch. Otherwise you might hurt yourself trying to understand your topic with all the "Bush and Republican" comments..

 

[Jarlaxle]

So do they have the same inspection rules as Iran and it's nuke program?

Actually: yeah, pretty much.

 

[Billy_Bob]

 

[zaangalewa]

The only problem: In the USA VW is maybe in an extraordinary position because nearly no one drives with Diesels there - but here in Europe no one sees any difference between VW and orther companies - also companies from the USA.

My last car was by the way a Diesel. I drove about 125000 miles with this car and drove very exactly 40 mpg. How many miles do you drive with you car per gallon?

 

[flacaltenn]

The only problem: In the USA VW is maybe in an extraordinary position because nearly no one drives with Diesels there - but here in Europe no one sees any difference between VW and orther companies - also companies from the USA.

My last car was by the way a Diesel. I drove about 125000 miles with this car and drove very exactly 40 mpg. How many miles do you drive with you car per gallon?

You keep going back to fuel mileage arguments.. But this isn't about economy.. It's about making smog.

Do you have annual vehicle inspections in Germany to test tailpipe emissions? Or drive-by automated smog testers? If they detect different types of Nitrogen Oxides --- then your government also must know that VW diesel is not particularly clean and green..

 

[gipper]

This VW case is a good example of government tyranny and the dishonest media distorting the facts. We will see if they kill a great company.

Automobiles give off minute amounts of pollutants. What VW did was exceed GOVERNMENT DICTATES by a small fraction, not the 40% the lying media is claims. It is all very disgusting.

Eric Peters spells it out here: The VW "Scandal" - EPautos

At the same time, the cars that may still be manufactured are required to meet increasingly unattainable standards, putting the manufacturers (like VW) in the position of manufacturing government-compliant cars that cost too much and perform poorly that few will want to buy… or “cheating” the government, in order to build cars people will actually want to buy.

What’s happening to VW could have come right out of Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand’s cumbersome but nonetheless predictive novel of 50 years ago. VW cast as the real-life version of Rearden Steel.

Some inside baseball: Mazda has been trying to get its Sky-D diesel engine EPA-compliant (while also customer-viable) for the past two years, without success so far. You are denied this 50-plus MPG (and extremely clean) diesel because of the particulate jihadists in Washington.

Remember: In neither case (VW or Mazda) are we talking about a return to the LA of the early ’70s, a feasting on lead chip paints and bathing in DDT. It’s all a bogey at this point. A straw man. A phantom, meant to scare you. But it has no reality.

The “emissions problem” has been solved – decades ago. But the EPA, et al, cannot admit this.

Because then there’d be no need for the EPA.

 

[jc456]

farfegnugen

 

[flacaltenn]

This VW case is a good example of government tyranny and the dishonest media distorting the facts. We will see if they kill a great company.

Automobiles give off minute amounts of pollutants. What VW did was exceed GOVERNMENT DICTATES by a small fraction, not the 40% the lying media is claims. It is all very disgusting.

Eric Peters spells it out here: The VW "Scandal" - EPautos

At the same time, the cars that may still be manufactured are required to meet increasingly unattainable standards, putting the manufacturers (like VW) in the position of manufacturing government-compliant cars that cost too much and perform poorly that few will want to buy… or “cheating” the government, in order to build cars people will actually want to buy.

What’s happening to VW could have come right out of Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand’s cumbersome but nonetheless predictive novel of 50 years ago. VW cast as the real-life version of Rearden Steel.

Some inside baseball: Mazda has been trying to get its Sky-D diesel engine EPA-compliant (while also customer-viable) for the past two years, without success so far. You are denied this 50-plus MPG (and extremely clean) diesel because of the particulate jihadists in Washington.

Remember: In neither case (VW or Mazda) are we talking about a return to the LA of the early ’70s, a feasting on lead chip paints and bathing in DDT. It’s all a bogey at this point. A straw man. A phantom, meant to scare you. But it has no reality.

The “emissions problem” has been solved – decades ago. But the EPA, et al, cannot admit this.

Because then there’d be no need for the EPA.

Now I don't know this for a fact.. But I'll wager that VW gave the DRIVER the option on the level of emission control versus performance. I say this because many vehicles around 2010 when this controversy started offer
dash buttons for "Eco-Mode" or "Green Mode" or similar labels. My little conspiracy here says that MAYBE the ability to control the emission level of the car was ALSO tied to that button.

Could it be? I'll see what can be found. And should it be true --- Did the EPA and CARB and other agencies KNOW about this "driver option"??? Could other manufacturers be diddling with the emission controls?

Anyone got a photo of a 2012 Jetta Diesel operators manual for the dash controls? I'm working today..

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, I'll bet the EPA is now developing a method to test the new cars, randomly chosen from new car lots, as they are running a normal city and freeway course. The Corporations are so trustworthy to police themselves. LOL

 

[Vandalshandle]

What's not to love about VW?

 

[flacaltenn]

Well, I'll bet the EPA is now developing a method to test the new cars, randomly chosen from new car lots, as they are running a normal city and freeway course. The Corporations are so trustworthy to police themselves. LOL

Funny how 2 people can see the same zebra and argue about the colors.

It's black on white

No.. every Zebra I've ever seen is CLEARLY white on black.

The EPA FAILED to discover how duped they had been. And FAILED to protect the enviro and the folks it works for --- And this GIANT UNACCOUNTABLE bureaucracy is the leftist prescription to holding corporations RESPONSIBLE>??

You're nutz. The answer is to diversify the accountability, CUT the influence of a failed agency in areas where it has no particular competence and let the MILLIONS of independent auto experts inform the public and debate these issues in the public domain..

 

[Delta4Embassy]

VW Chief 'Sorry' After EPA Says Firm Skirted Clean Air Law

The CEO of Volkswagen apologized Sunday and VW customers said they felt duped after the Environmental Protection Agency revealed that the German automaker skirted clean air rules by rigging emissions tests for about 500,000 diesel cars.

The EPA said VW faces fines of up to $37,500 per vehicle for the violations — a total of more than $18 billion. The California Air Resources Board is also investigating.
--------------------------------------

I bet Republicans are pissed. We all know what they think about the value of clean air.

Anyone remember how much GM paid for actually killing people?


"For hiding a fatal ignition-switch defect tied to at least 174 deaths, General Motors employees will face no criminal charges and the automaker will pay a $900 million fine — less than a third of its $2.8 billion in profit last year."
Why General Motors’ $900 million fine for a deadly defect is just a slap on the wrist

Bit inconsistent maybe?

 

[jon_berzerk]

The OP must have had a extra bowl of stupid this morning. GERMANS {they live in Europe idiot} cheated on a test in Europe. {kind of a whole different country idiot} and are NOT a Republican led government.

The Clean Air and Water act was signed by Richard Nixon and pushed by Republicans. So the OP has the wrong country the wrong people and gives credit wrong.

Does he lie or is he just stupid? YOU decide. I vote stupid.

perhaps he thought it was one of those 57 states the prezbo was talking about

--LOL