VietNam..April 30th....How It Ended.

[PoliticalChic]

The callus democrat majority could have withdrawn funding any time during the LBJ administration but they waited to stab a republican in the back and abandon all the Vietnamese who were loyal to the US.

If the United States had really cared about "the Vietnamese who were loyal to the US" this country could have evacuated them before the Communist victory. At the very least the US could have sent Naval and Coast Guard vessels over to pick up the boat people.

Abandoning the boat people to the Thai pirates was the shameful end of a shameful war.

You really have no clue, do you.

When the Pentagon’s accountants tried to use a couple of hundred million dollars of unused appropriations left over from 1972 and 1973 to aid the South, Ted Kennedy organized Senators, 43-38, to forbid the expenditure.
David Frum, “How We Got Here,” p. 305.

 

[Friends]

poor namvet, too much
Orange Koolaid

Koolaid Drinker

People who believe anything they are told. people who refuse to change there minds when confronted with facts.
a koolaid drinker is the liberal democrat who is liberal because they are told they should be. they have made no attempt to decide why the are liberal.
often a koolaid "drinker" simply wants to hate anything a republican does good or bad.
koolaid people are the vocal howard dean wing of the democrat party. the converse of rightwing loonies.
koolaid drinkers are the ones that went first when jim jones said drink.

up and down liberal

This kind of attitude can be found in ideologues and partisans regardless of political persuasion. Many Republicans hate President Obama so much that they hope the economy gets worse. That is what Rush Limbaugh meant when he said of the President shortly after his inauguration, "I hope he fails."

Many Republicans believe nonsense about Obama. They believe that he wants the terrorists to win, that he hates whites, even that he is the anti-Christ.

Poll: 1 of 5 Republicans Believe Obama is the Antichrist - Atlanta Black Star

 

[PoliticalChic]

poor namvet, too much
Orange Koolaid

Koolaid Drinker

People who believe anything they are told. people who refuse to change there minds when confronted with facts.
a koolaid drinker is the liberal democrat who is liberal because they are told they should be. they have made no attempt to decide why the are liberal.
often a koolaid "drinker" simply wants to hate anything a republican does good or bad.
koolaid people are the vocal howard dean wing of the democrat party. the converse of rightwing loonies.
koolaid drinkers are the ones that went first when jim jones said drink.

up and down liberal

This kind of attitude can be found in ideologues and partisans regardless of political persuasion. Many Republicans hate President Obama so much that they hope the economy gets worse. That is what Rush Limbaugh meant when he said of the President shortly after his inauguration, "I hope he fails."

Many Republicans believe nonsense about Obama. They believe that he wants the terrorists to win, that he hates whites, even that he is the anti-Christ.

Poll: 1 of 5 Republicans Believe Obama is the Antichrist - Atlanta Black Star

It appears that there are innumerable subjects about which your are dumber than asphalt.

Obama's economic policies are even more brainless than your posts.


His greatest supporter in economic policy is the 'prize winner' Paul Krugman.

How about the 'stimulus' as an example.

1. Krugman embraces the Keynesian idea that there is value in increasing spending for its own sake, no matter if jobs are temporary, or unskilled...digging ditches and filling them in...as long as workers are employed, and pay taxes.

" Think about World War II, right? That was actually negative social product spending, and yet it brought us out.[of the Depression]...

If we discovered that space aliens were planning to attack and we needed a massive buildup to counter the space alien threat and really inflation and budget deficits took secondary place to that, this slump would be over in 18 months. And then if we discovered, oops, we made a mistake, there aren't any aliens, we'd be better –" Watch GPS: Krugman calls for space aliens to fix U.S. economy? ? Global Public Square - CNN.com Blogs


a. Really? It doesn't matter how resources are spent? Was 'Cash for Clunkers' the way to go? Spending on alternative energy companies? Ethanol, when gasoline costs half as much and produces more energy? Give that man a prize!

2. For Obama, the Liberal, the Keynesian, i.e., Krugman, government spending is the panacea for all that ails ya.' What is forgotten is that the level of government spending determines the level of taxation ( well, for conservatives....for liberals it must be multiplied to advance 'equality).

And financing spending through borrowing simply means even higher taxes in the future. Most importantly, taxes discourage investment and work. Despite Keynes, and Krugman's happy theories, taxes are a drag on the economy.


How's that for a reason to hate his policies?


Or, are you too much of an "ideologue and partisan"?

 

[Friends]

I am calling education education. What most people do with their kids is indoctrination.

most liberals

Liberals are more likely to teach their children to form their own opinions.

Unless it is about the relationship between genes, IQ, success in life, race, and crime, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Friends]

The American people ended the war.

The War was won by the North Vietnamese Army.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veMwTqvsozA]ENGLISH - The national anthem of Vietnam (socialist) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Friends]

We were not fighting for anyone's "right" to burn down buildings or assault other people.

You a solder? Yea right, you sound like an arm chair warrior

Hey, porky.....know who you sound like?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maF9WGLrj2Q]a Porky Pig Cartoon Ending _That's All Folks!_.flv - YouTube[/ame]

You seem incapable of anything but childish sarcasm and long blasts of right wing hot air consisting of cliches learned from right wing hate radio.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You a solder? Yea right, you sound like an arm chair warrior

Hey, porky.....know who you sound like?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maF9WGLrj2Q]a Porky Pig Cartoon Ending _That's All Folks!_.flv - YouTube[/ame]

You seem incapable of anything but childish sarcasm and long blasts of right wing hot air consisting of cliches learned from right wing hate radiol.

You've been proven to be both stupid and dishonest....

Both posts #221 and 223 are specific and factual.


Just the usual boilerplate hate-America posts.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The American people ended the war.

The War was won by the North Vietnamese Army.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veMwTqvsozA]ENGLISH - The national anthem of Vietnam (socialist) - YouTube[/ame]

Liar.

 

[Friends]

Final declaration, dated July 21, 1954, of the Geneva Conference on the problem of restoring peace in Indochina, in which the representatives of Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, France, Laos, the People's Republic of China, the State of Viet-Nam, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the United States of America took part...

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions...

5. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam to the effect that no military base at the disposition of a foreign state may be established in the regrouping zones of the two parties...

7. The Conference declares that, so far as Viet-Nam is concerned, the settlement of political problems, effected on the basis of respect for the principles of independence, unity, and territorial integrity, shall permit the Vietnamese people to enjoy the fundamental freedoms, guaranteed by democratic institutions established as a result of free general elections by secret ballot.

In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities.
Modern History Sourcebook: The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

---------

Those elections were never held because the South Vietnamese dictatorship did not allow them to be held. The United States did not sign and did not honor that the Geneva Agreement of 1954. This is why:

"I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader."

Source: Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mandate for Change, 1953-56 (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Compnay, Inc., 1963), p. 372.
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm

---------

Vietnam was unimportant to American security and the U.S. economy. The United States provoked a war in which at least two million Vietnamese were killed in order to prevent the ascension of a leader the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted. The War in Vietnam happened because the Untied States stole an election.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Final declaration, dated July 21, 1954, of the Geneva Conference on the problem of restoring peace in Indochina, in which the representatives of Cambodia, the Democratic Republic of Viet-Nam, France, Laos, the People's Republic of China, the State of Viet-Nam, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the United Kingdom and the United States of America took part...

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions...

5. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam to the effect that no military base at the disposition of a foreign state may be established in the regrouping zones of the two parties...

7. The Conference declares that, so far as Viet-Nam is concerned, the settlement of political problems, effected on the basis of respect for the principles of independence, unity, and territorial integrity, shall permit the Vietnamese people to enjoy the fundamental freedoms, guaranteed by democratic institutions established as a result of free general elections by secret ballot.

In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities.
Modern History Sourcebook: The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

---------

Those elections were never held because the South Vietnamese dictatorship did not allow them to be held. The United States did not sign and did not honor that the Geneva Agreement of 1954. This is why:

"I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the population would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader."

Source: Dwight D. Eisenhower, Mandate for Change, 1953-56 (Garden City, NY: Doubleday & Compnay, Inc., 1963), p. 372.
https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/vietnam/ddeho.htm

---------

Vietnam was unimportant to American security and the U.S. economy. The United States provoked a war in which at least two million Vietnamese were killed in order to prevent the ascension of a leader the vast majority of the Vietnamese wanted. The War in Vietnam happened because the Untied States stole an election.

The history of the Vietnam conflict goes back at least to 1945-1946.

In stating that the North Vietnamese army won the war you remain a liar.

The United States army won every battle.

It lost it in the Congress, the enemies were known as the Democrat Party.

 

[Friends]

The history of the Vietnam conflict goes back at least to 1945-1946.

In stating that the North Vietnamese army won the war you remain a liar.

The United States army won every battle.

It lost it in the Congress, the enemies were known as the Democrat Party.

My point is that the U.S. military effort was immoral and not in America's national interest. You have done nothing to refute that point.

When the United States military fled from Saigon in helicopters it did not look like a victory parade.

One time Ho Chi Minh said to an American journalist, "You will kill ten of us. We will kill one of you. In the end you will tire of it."

 

[PoliticalChic]

The history of the Vietnam conflict goes back at least to 1945-1946.

In stating that the North Vietnamese army won the war you remain a liar.

The United States army won every battle.

It lost it in the Congress, the enemies were known as the Democrat Party.

My point is that the U.S. military effort was immoral and not in America's national interest. You have done nothing to refute that point.

When the United States military fled from Saigon in helicopters it did not look like a victory parade.

One time Ho Chi Minh said to an American journalist, "You will kill ten of us. We will kill one of you. In the end you will tire of it."

I've identified you a stupid, America-hating liar.....


....that's not enough?



But,...you must be used to it by now.

 

[Friends]

This is how preposterous the War in Vietnam was. A young man did not need a genius level IQ to figure out that the War was unworthy of his life, and the life of anyone he might kill over there. It seemed to help, however. Anti war sentiment was strongest at the best universities.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuUBCF3KKxc]Country Joe & the Fish -- Vietnam song - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Friends]

I've identified you a stupid, America-hating liar.....

....that's not enough?

But,...you must be used to it by now.

Instead of insulting me, try to refute my argument. Why was the War in Vietnam morally justified? Why was it in America's national interest? Why did the United States have the right to devastate Vietnam in order to prevent the ascension of a leader as many as 80 percent of the Vietnamese wanted?

I was raised to be very patriotic. I thrilled to the sight of the American flag, the National Anthem, "rocks and rills," "woods and templed hills," and all that. The War in Vietnam took that away from me. I never got it back. Appeals to American nationalism fill me with cold disgust.

 

[bornright]

The history of the Vietnam conflict goes back at least to 1945-1946.

In stating that the North Vietnamese army won the war you remain a liar.

The United States army won every battle.

It lost it in the Congress, the enemies were known as the Democrat Party.

My point is that the U.S. military effort was immoral and not in America's national interest. You have done nothing to refute that point.

When the United States military fled from Saigon in helicopters it did not look like a victory parade.

One time Ho Chi Minh said to an American journalist, "You will kill ten of us. We will kill one of you. In the end you will tire of it."

The US military, except for a small number of military advisors and the guards at the Embassy, had been gone for a while. The only reason the North defeated the South was because the US Congress defunded the war. No Money - No weapons - No Ammunition its over.

 

[bornright]

This is how preposterous the War in Vietnam was. A young man did not need a genius level IQ to figure out that the War was unworthy of his life, and the life of anyone he might kill over there. It seemed to help, however. Anti war sentiment was strongest at the best universities.

Anti war sentiment was strongest in Universities where the children that attended it were most spoiled.

 

[bornright]

I've identified you a stupid, America-hating liar.....

....that's not enough?

But,...you must be used to it by now.

Instead of insulting me, try to refute my argument. Why was the War in Vietnam morally justified? Why was it in America's national interest? Why did the United States have the right to devastate Vietnam in order to prevent the ascension of a leader as many as 80 percent of the Vietnamese wanted?

I was raised to be very patriotic. I thrilled to the sight of the American flag, the National Anthem, "rocks and rills," "woods and templed hills," and all that. The War in Vietnam took that away from me. I never got it back. Appeals to American nationalism fill me with cold disgust.

I have never heard the 80% figure before. Surely you would not make something like that up.

I was raised to be patriotic. My dad was a WWII veteran and I served as a Marine in Vietnam and I am still patriotic. As 80% of Americans told people like you, back in the sixties, "Love it or Leave it".

 

[Friends]

The history of the Vietnam conflict goes back at least to 1945-1946.

In stating that the North Vietnamese army won the war you remain a liar.

The United States army won every battle.

It lost it in the Congress, the enemies were known as the Democrat Party.

My point is that the U.S. military effort was immoral and not in America's national interest. You have done nothing to refute that point.

When the United States military fled from Saigon in helicopters it did not look like a victory parade.

One time Ho Chi Minh said to an American journalist, "You will kill ten of us. We will kill one of you. In the end you will tire of it."

The US military, except for a small number of military advisors and the guards at the Embassy, had been gone for a while. The only reason the North defeated the South was because the US Congress defunded the war. No Money - No weapons - No Ammunition its over.

Six months before the end the South Vietnamese Army was more numerous and better equipped than the North Vietnamese Army. The South Vietnamese Army collapsed because it did not have the will to continue the war. This is because the South Vietnamese government was never popular in the South.

 

[Friends]

This is how preposterous the War in Vietnam was. A young man did not need a genius level IQ to figure out that the War was unworthy of his life, and the life of anyone he might kill over there. It seemed to help, however. Anti war sentiment was strongest at the best universities.

Anti war sentiment was strongest in Universities where the children that attended it were most spoiled.

Anti war sentiment was strongest where the average IQ was highest. The War in Vietnam was immoral and not in America's national interest for reasons I have explained in this thread. No one has even tried to refute my argument.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I've identified you a stupid, America-hating liar.....

....that's not enough?

But,...you must be used to it by now.

Instead of insulting me, try to refute my argument. Why was the War in Vietnam morally justified? Why was it in America's national interest? Why did the United States have the right to devastate Vietnam in order to prevent the ascension of a leader as many as 80 percent of the Vietnamese wanted?

I was raised to be very patriotic. I thrilled to the sight of the American flag, the National Anthem, "rocks and rills," "woods and templed hills," and all that. The War in Vietnam took that away from me. I never got it back. Appeals to American nationalism fill me with cold disgust.

You're a liar....you have no argument beyond that.