USMB Poll: Are you for or agaainst the Libya assault?

[NYcarbineer]

I am against it because we can't afford another war, and we don't know what the end game is. Unless we are going to commit ourselves 100% and be in to win it, we have no business fucking around in Libya. Lets focus on Iraq and Afghanistan, last time I checked American troops were still fighting in those places.

It's not a fucking war. Can we not just stick to facts instead of hysterical hyperbole?

Then what is it? What in your opinion is the factually correct term, or terminology that describes what is going on in Libya?

 

[High_Gravity]

It is not a war.

it is a move to prevent a dictator from using the people military to kill them.

The people fighting the war are the rebels and they will win.

They far outnumber gadfi.

LOL I wonder what Ghaddafis force have to say about that with missiles raining down on them, I'm sure they consider it a war.

 

[Truthmatters]

Allowing people to be slaughtered proves nothing

Really? so we are in this just to do the right thing?

Sometimes that can actually be the case.

 

[Truthmatters]

It is not a war.

it is a move to prevent a dictator from using the people military to kill them.

The people fighting the war are the rebels and they will win.

They far outnumber gadfi.

LOL I wonder what Ghaddafis force have to say about that with missiles raining down on them, I'm sure they consider it a war.

I know one thing they cant consider anymore and that is using the peoples military to kill them.

 

[VaYank5150]

Did I say that?

Nope. Just trying to figure out how any US citizen can justify spending $196M to help Libyan citizens, all the while trying to remove any help for our own.

Well, here are couple of observations to help with that.

1. I'm not a U.S. Citizen.
2. It is possible to have principles in more than one area.
3. Consider whether "spending $196m on one leaves no help for the other" is a valid point or whether it's just conjecture.

Well, currently in our country, the GOP is doing everything it can to eliminate programs called "entitlements". The programs is part help children in our country who fall below the pverty line. The GOP says these cost cutting measures are absolutely necessary because we are broke and need to reign in our defecit. So....knowing how our military organization works, they will want to replace the 196 Tomahawk cruise missiles expended on Libya thus far. At $500K to $1.4M each, are the Republicans/conservatives willing to take money from our civilians in order to help Libya's civilians?

 

[High_Gravity]

Allowing people to be slaughtered proves nothing

Really? so we are in this just to do the right thing?

Sometimes that can actually be the case.

So why aren't we sending fighter jets to Iran, Zimbabwe, Bahrain, Syria and Yemen?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Allowing people to be slaughtered proves nothing

Then you've changed your mind about Iraq, which I'm assuming you opposed?

Then we're wrong not to have American military in Darfur, and in the Congo?

Then we're wrong not to militarily intervene in the drug wars in Mexico?

 

[VaYank5150]

Does the United States have something against Darfur? If we are only "doing the right thing", then why have we ignored Bahrain and Darfur for so long? Why did we not choose to "do the right thing" there?

 

[High_Gravity]

Allowing people to be slaughtered proves nothing

Then you've changed your mind about Iraq, which I'm assuming you opposed?

Then we're wrong not to have American military in Darfur, and in the Congo?

Then we're wrong not to militarily intervene in the drug wars in Mexico?

Why didn't we intervene in Iran when the Basji thugs were butt raping Iranian protestors? why didn't we intervene in Zimbabwe when ZANU PF jackboot thugs were cracking peoples head open after another rigged election?

 

[B. Kidd]

120+ Tomahawk missles used. Not a war. Right.....
And I thought SWAT teams were used for police actions. Wrong......

 

[NYcarbineer]

It is not a war.

it is a move to prevent a dictator from using the people military to kill them.

The people fighting the war are the rebels and they will win.

They far outnumber gadfi.

You realize you said in one post that it both is and isn't a war?

We are providing military support, via bonafide combat missions, for the rebels, that makes us part of the war you just acknowledged is a war.

 

[High_Gravity]

Does the United States have something against Darfur? If we are only "doing the right thing", then why have we ignored Bahrain and Darfur for so long? Why did we not choose to "do the right thing" there?

Exactly, where are the US Cruise Missiles and Fighter jets for Darfur? they would have loved to have a no fly zone there, and why no help for Bahrain?

 

[tigerbob]

Nope. Just trying to figure out how any US citizen can justify spending $196M to help Libyan citizens, all the while trying to remove any help for our own.

Well, here are couple of observations to help with that.

1. I'm not a U.S. Citizen.
2. It is possible to have principles in more than one area.
3. Consider whether "spending $196m on one leaves no help for the other" is a valid point or whether it's just conjecture.

Well, currently in our country, the GOP is doing everything it can to eliminate programs called "entitlements". The programs is part help children in our country who fall below the pverty line. The GOP says these cost cutting measures are absolutely necessary because we are broke and need to reign in our defecit. So....knowing how our military organization works, they will want to replace the 196 Tomahawk cruise missiles expended on Libya thus far. At $500K to $1.4M each, are the Republicans/conservatives willing to take money from our civilians in order to help Libya's civilians?

Yes, I'm familiar with entitlements. I live in the US, about 20 miles north of Detroit.

And the GOP is right. We do need to rein in our deficit. I don't approve of all the ways they propose to do it, but you'd have to ask the GOP whether they are specifically intending to fund one activity directly from the other.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Truth is going to say that all that genocide in those other countries is fine because the UN hasn't told us to intervene.

It's the UN that decides morals people, come on.

 

[High_Gravity]

When US Service men and women are risking their lives and killing people in a foreign land, it is a war no matter how you spin it. You might not think so sitting in your cozy house chilling on the couch, but believe me it is a war to the people involved and you better damn believe Ghaddafis forces consider this an act of war, you can't fucking bomb someones country and say otherwise sorry.

 

[Truthmatters]

Because this one is happening now and is doable.

If we can keep gadfis from using the countries military might against the people then they can outnumber him and take him out themselves.

If we didnt do this we would have several more cases where the dicators deside to just kill all their people who try to achieve a free society.

This is reshaping the ME and the people are doing it themselves by standoing up and screaming NO at their dictators. In Egypt Mubarak realised he could not use the military because the military considered themselves the people too. In this case Gadfi has nothing but cronies running his peoples military. Low level military people have abandoned him but few of the high ranks who could have taken the arms with them. This is going to end well and the millions it will cost us will be well worth it in the end. We will be dealing with democratic leaders instead of half insane dicators.

 

[tigerbob]

Really? so we are in this just to do the right thing?

Sometimes that can actually be the case.

So why aren't we sending fighter jets to Iran, Zimbabwe, Bahrain, Syria and Yemen?

That's the basis for a whole thread, but unfortunately it would immediately descend into hysteria as one side fights the other with polarized alternatives. Pity. It would be worth reading if it could be discussed reasonably.

 

[High_Gravity]

Because this one is happening now and is doable.

If we can keep gadfis from using the countries military might against the people then they can outnumber him and take him out themselves.

If we didnt do this we would have several more cases where the dicators deside to just kill all their people who try to achieve a free society.

This is reshaping the ME and the people are doing it themselves by standoing up and screaming NO at their dictators. In Egypt Mubarak realised he could not use the military because the military considered themselves the people too. In this case Gadfi has nothing but cronies running his peoples military. Low level military people have abandoned him but few of the high ranks who could have taken the arms with them. This is going to end well and the millions it will cost us will be well worth it in the end. We will be dealing with democratic leaders instead of half insane dicators.

There are protests and riots right now in Yemen, Bahrain, Syria, and Kuwait, they are in the Middle East so when are the US Cruise Missiles and French Fighter jets heading over to those countries?

 

[California Girl]

I am against it because we can't afford another war, and we don't know what the end game is. Unless we are going to commit ourselves 100% and be in to win it, we have no business fucking around in Libya. Lets focus on Iraq and Afghanistan, last time I checked American troops were still fighting in those places.

It's not a fucking war. Can we not just stick to facts instead of hysterical hyperbole?

I'm sorry but when you send cruise missiles and fighter jets into a country and choose sides, you are in a war. We can disagree on this without cussing each other out.

It is not a war. It is a UN sanctioned intervention... specifically to stop Gaddafi from bombing the crap out of his own people. That is not war... it is intervention. There is no way to implement a 'no fly zone' (as authorized by the UN) without taking out the structures that Gadaffi needs to either:

a. strike at the UN forces
b. strike at his own people

This is not rocket science, it is rational thought.

 

[High_Gravity]

It's not a fucking war. Can we not just stick to facts instead of hysterical hyperbole?

I'm sorry but when you send cruise missiles and fighter jets into a country and choose sides, you are in a war. We can disagree on this without cussing each other out.

It is not a war. It is a UN sanctioned intervention... specifically to stop Gaddafi from bombing the crap out of his own people. That is not war... it is intervention. There is no way to implement a 'no fly zone' (as authorized by the UN) without taking out the structures that Gadaffi needs to either:

a. strike at the UN forces
b. strike at his own people

This is not rocket science, it is rational thought.

I'm looking at differently from the perspective of a Military member, if I was a fighter pilot and you are asking me to fly over Libyan air space to risk my life and bomb the fucking shit out of them, it is a war to me.