US said preparing strike to ‘utterly destroy’ N. Korean nuclear program

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

We're a WARRIOR nation and always have been, despite the fairies and weirdos teaching our kids not to be in the public schools. For every kid they turn into a flower-sniffing pansy, three will end up throwing fists outside a bar some night. It's in our DNA.

A great reason for homeschooling, too.

Growing your own morons is now fashionably chic?

"Growing your own morons is now fashionably chic?"

Homeschool students out perform government school grads every time.
Can I assume you're a government school grad?


Here's some real education for you:

Academic Performance

• The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (Percentiles range from 1 to 99 on these tests.)

• Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

• Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.

• Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.

• Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

• Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges.

RESEARCH FACTS ON HOMESCHOOLING
http://www.nheri.org/Research-Facts-on-Homeschooling.html




How'd you like that custard pie I just smashed in your kisser?

If you truly had any intelligence, you would not go into a battle of wits unarmed.

We will examine your claims point by point:

• The home-educated typically score 15 to 30 percentile points above public-school students on standardized academic achievement tests. (Percentiles range from 1 to 99 on these tests.)

What standardized tests would those be? Since there is no requirements for most home-schooled children to take those achievement tests, no statistically valid comparison can be made.

• Homeschool students score above average on achievement tests regardless of their parents’ level of formal education or their family’s household income.

What achievement tests would those be? Since there is no requirements for most home-schooled children to take thos standardized tests, no statistically valid comparison can be made.

• Whether homeschool parents were ever certified teachers is not related to their children’s academic achievement.

There is no way valid way to measure that statement. It is merely an opinion.

• Degree of state control and regulation of homeschooling is not related to academic achievement.

Again, there is no valid way to measure that statement. It is merely an opinion.

• Home-educated students typically score above average on the SAT and ACT tests that colleges consider for admissions.

Because not all home-schooled students are required to take those exams, unlike public school students which are required to do so in many states, so there is no statistically valid comparison which can be made. I just completed ACT testing of our junior class. Probably less than 25% will attend college, but their scores are recorded right along with those who do, making the score average much lower. Home-schooled students will not even bother taking the test if they do not intend to go to college because of the time and expense associated with the test, making their averages appear higher.,

• Homeschool students are increasingly being actively recruited by colleges

Colleges also have major problems with home-schooled students adjusting to large classes, more rigorous instruction, and a large number of kids who just drop out of college because they are academically unprepared. Several of my daughter's classmates in college were home-schooled. After less than a year, they all went home crying to Momma, because Momma wasn't teaching them anymore.

Your post is nothing but recycled crap from organizations like HSLDA and their associated scam artists.

Maybe you could home-school yourself in a good statistics course and you would see the kind of tripe you have been suckered into believing!

 

[Dschrute3]

Incredibly dangerous call. Trump better think it through. God help him, and us.

 

[frigidweirdo]

My guess is that this just isn't the case.

NK has a shitload of non-nuclear weapons pointed right at Seoul, and it's difficult to believe they wouldn't use them if attacked. We can't get all of them, too.

I suppose it's possible they retain just enough sanity not to do that, but that's one helluva risk we'd be taking.
.

Both sides have shitloads of non nuclear weapons pointed at each other, but only the US has the capability of destroying anything in NK which it can see, and with the MOAB, it can also destroy all those cannons hidden in caves near the border which it cannot see. Imo, the leadership of NK is deeply paranoid but quite rational otherwise. They understand they cannot survive an all out war with the US so they threaten horrendous consequences in order to prevent the US from attacking, but when President Trump sent a carrier group to the region in response to an expected nuclear test, NK called off the test. There is also reason to believe there is dissension within the leadership which might make decisions to go to war with the US difficult.

You figured all these out by yourself General?
They have a great number of small artilleries that can hit 5 to 20 miles inside SK ---------
One strike against NK and will re ignite a real war between N & S. Millions will die on both sides-------- because of this chest pumping cheetoh------ Do not expect China will sit and watch. Followed by South Korean refugees to US.
You bomb NK ----------- do not expect South Korean will go to work to Hyundai or Samsung the next day.

As an example US and coalition plus Putin has been bombing ISIS in Syria for over 3 years combined. --------------- ISIS still standing in Syria. Do you think you can cripple NK in a day without raining bombs hitting SK?
If that happened------------ just imagine who will they blame and hate? THINK.

What NK would be capable of doing would depend on the severity of the US first strike. If a US first strike targeted NK's military infrastructure as well as its nuclear facilities, the NK's ability to retaliate would be seriously degraded, and if the US first strike targeted only NK's nuclear facilities, then NK would have to decide if it would cut its losses or see its entire military infrastructure destroyed.

Trade with the US is vital to China's growing economy but NK is merely a buffer zone between China and the West, so as long as it is clear that the US does not intend to occupy Nk, Chna would have no reason to join the fight. Add to this the fact that a nuclear armed NK starving across the border from China's burgeoning economy would be a threat to China as well as to the US and its allies, and one might wonder if China's interests might be the same as the US's.

Trade is vital for China. However China would also have to weigh up the political options too, and it would be doing that. They don't want the US on their border, it's a simple fact.

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

 

[Dschrute3]

It comes down to China. Is China willing to give up North Korea to the US/West? It has been a loyal ally for many years. If China loses North Korea, the US will gain even more control in the region. They may choose to take Kim Jong Un out themselves, and replace him with a more controllable Puppet. I guess we'll see how China plays it. It's the key player in this.

 

[danielpalos]

What is North Korea's, "chief complaint"?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Both sides have shitloads of non nuclear weapons pointed at each other, but only the US has the capability of destroying anything in NK which it can see, and with the MOAB, it can also destroy all those cannons hidden in caves near the border which it cannot see. Imo, the leadership of NK is deeply paranoid but quite rational otherwise. They understand they cannot survive an all out war with the US so they threaten horrendous consequences in order to prevent the US from attacking, but when President Trump sent a carrier group to the region in response to an expected nuclear test, NK called off the test. There is also reason to believe there is dissension within the leadership which might make decisions to go to war with the US difficult.

You figured all these out by yourself General?
They have a great number of small artilleries that can hit 5 to 20 miles inside SK ---------
One strike against NK and will re ignite a real war between N & S. Millions will die on both sides-------- because of this chest pumping cheetoh------ Do not expect China will sit and watch. Followed by South Korean refugees to US.
You bomb NK ----------- do not expect South Korean will go to work to Hyundai or Samsung the next day.

As an example US and coalition plus Putin has been bombing ISIS in Syria for over 3 years combined. --------------- ISIS still standing in Syria. Do you think you can cripple NK in a day without raining bombs hitting SK?
If that happened------------ just imagine who will they blame and hate? THINK.

What NK would be capable of doing would depend on the severity of the US first strike. If a US first strike targeted NK's military infrastructure as well as its nuclear facilities, the NK's ability to retaliate would be seriously degraded, and if the US first strike targeted only NK's nuclear facilities, then NK would have to decide if it would cut its losses or see its entire military infrastructure destroyed.

Trade with the US is vital to China's growing economy but NK is merely a buffer zone between China and the West, so as long as it is clear that the US does not intend to occupy Nk, Chna would have no reason to join the fight. Add to this the fact that a nuclear armed NK starving across the border from China's burgeoning economy would be a threat to China as well as to the US and its allies, and one might wonder if China's interests might be the same as the US's.

Trade is vital for China. However China would also have to weigh up the political options too, and it would be doing that. They don't want the US on their border, it's a simple fact.

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

 

[bendog]

China doesn't want a common border with SK, and I don't see why SK would want that either. China has no interest in caring for NK's "basket case" populace. SK probably feels some duty based on ethnicity and family history. But JFC the Congo is socially better off than NK.

 

[toomuchtime_]

China doesn't want a common border with SK, and I don't see why SK would want that either. China has no interest in caring for NK's "basket case" populace. SK probably feels some duty based on ethnicity and family history. But JFC the Congo is socially better off than NK.

Why wouldn't China want to see a unified Korea? It would pose no threat to China. It would relieve China of having to support and defend the NK regime. It would probably result in enhanced commerce with the new Korea. With the NK threat gone, it would most likely result in the withdrawal of US troops.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You figured all these out by yourself General?
They have a great number of small artilleries that can hit 5 to 20 miles inside SK ---------
One strike against NK and will re ignite a real war between N & S. Millions will die on both sides-------- because of this chest pumping cheetoh------ Do not expect China will sit and watch. Followed by South Korean refugees to US.
You bomb NK ----------- do not expect South Korean will go to work to Hyundai or Samsung the next day.

As an example US and coalition plus Putin has been bombing ISIS in Syria for over 3 years combined. --------------- ISIS still standing in Syria. Do you think you can cripple NK in a day without raining bombs hitting SK?
If that happened------------ just imagine who will they blame and hate? THINK.

What NK would be capable of doing would depend on the severity of the US first strike. If a US first strike targeted NK's military infrastructure as well as its nuclear facilities, the NK's ability to retaliate would be seriously degraded, and if the US first strike targeted only NK's nuclear facilities, then NK would have to decide if it would cut its losses or see its entire military infrastructure destroyed.

Trade with the US is vital to China's growing economy but NK is merely a buffer zone between China and the West, so as long as it is clear that the US does not intend to occupy Nk, Chna would have no reason to join the fight. Add to this the fact that a nuclear armed NK starving across the border from China's burgeoning economy would be a threat to China as well as to the US and its allies, and one might wonder if China's interests might be the same as the US's.

Trade is vital for China. However China would also have to weigh up the political options too, and it would be doing that. They don't want the US on their border, it's a simple fact.

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

 

[toomuchtime_]

What NK would be capable of doing would depend on the severity of the US first strike. If a US first strike targeted NK's military infrastructure as well as its nuclear facilities, the NK's ability to retaliate would be seriously degraded, and if the US first strike targeted only NK's nuclear facilities, then NK would have to decide if it would cut its losses or see its entire military infrastructure destroyed.

Trade with the US is vital to China's growing economy but NK is merely a buffer zone between China and the West, so as long as it is clear that the US does not intend to occupy Nk, Chna would have no reason to join the fight. Add to this the fact that a nuclear armed NK starving across the border from China's burgeoning economy would be a threat to China as well as to the US and its allies, and one might wonder if China's interests might be the same as the US's.

Trade is vital for China. However China would also have to weigh up the political options too, and it would be doing that. They don't want the US on their border, it's a simple fact.

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Trade is vital for China. However China would also have to weigh up the political options too, and it would be doing that. They don't want the US on their border, it's a simple fact.

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

 

[easyt65]

Hmmm....playing 'devil's advocate'...

The US deems another nation to be 'too unstable' to have nuclear weapons thus justifies its military's 1st strike on a sovereign nation...

Since the US has been militarily striking and invading nations for decades based on the belief that THOSE nations are a threat to the world, what if another nation used our argument against us and militarily struck the US based on the belief WE have become the world threat?

Would they have a point / case?

Would they be 'wrong'?

Has the US been 'wrong'??

 

[toomuchtime_]

Having the West on its border might have been an important concern back in the 1950's, but it's not clear why it would be today. Given the US's awesome ability to project massive military power anywhere in the world, every country effectively has the US on its border. China has vital economic interess in maintaining good relations with the West, but it is not clear China has any important strategic interests in protecting NK.

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

A lot of words to say you don't know of any reason for China to be worried about a unified Korea.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's not clear to you why it would be important. But it's clear to the Chinese.

China has interests in maintaining good relations with the West, however it also has other things it deems important.

In Iraq the US went in believing it was the liberator, it went in thinking the Iraqis would come with open arms and accept the US armed forces. This arrogance in believing that other countries think the same as the US led Bush to think Bremer alone could run the country and so put him in sole charge when they were going to put an Arab in with Bremer. Then their arrogance to disband the Iraqi armed forces and police led to the disaster that happened.

Why do you think China has been North Korea's only friend? What does China get from North Korea? Trade? Yes, but not enough to tolerate a bunch of nut jobs on your border.

Why China Can't Cut Off North Korea | The Huffington Post

"After all, there is no other country in the world that provides as much food and fuel to the regime. Without this sustenance, North Korea would perish. So why doesn’t China just cut them off?"

"the policymakers in Beijing do not see a tough line, which could lead ultimately to a North Korean collapse, as being in China’s strategic interests."

"a collapse of North Korea would leave a united Korea, that is a military ally of the United States, directly on its border. "

"Such an outcome would only reinforce in Chinese minds an important lesson of history - instability on the Korean peninsula has never redounded to Chinese interests. The last two times this occurred, the result was war with Japan (1895) and the U.S. (1950), which cost China dearly."

You cannot look at this from the US perspective. Because China isn't the US and doesn't think like the US. China is a country that has a massive bureaucracy for no other reason than they like bureaucracy. It doesn't make any sense, but they like it. A country where the people have always followed the leader, and obeyed, while Europe was fighting itself constantly and emerged with small countries like Slovenia with 2 million people, the Chinese always did as they were told and have 1.3 billion people.

Guangdong province alone would be the 12th largest country on the planet, Shandong would the 15th, Henan the 16th, Sichuan the 19th....

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

A lot of words to say you don't know of any reason for China to be worried about a unified Korea.

You know what, I couldn't give a shit if you have a problem with knowledge here. You want to go around telling people China has no reason to oppose a unified Korea, then fine. You can be ignorant, you can come on here and write crap posts that say nothing. I don't care. Do it too much and you'll end on the ignore list.

 

[toomuchtime_]

That's pretty much what I said, NK serves as a buffer between China and he West, and in the 1950's when both China and NK were Stalinist nations and both viewed the US as an enemy, it was important to China to have that buffer between itself and the West, but while China and the US are adversaries on certain issues, neither considers the other an enemy and a unified Korea would present no threat to today's China, so there would be no rational basis for China to risk any part of its vitally important relations with the West to defend NK's pursuit of nuclear weapons.

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

A lot of words to say you don't know of any reason for China to be worried about a unified Korea.

You know what, I couldn't give a shit if you have a problem with knowledge here. You want to go around telling people China has no reason to oppose a unified Korea, then fine. You can be ignorant, you can come on here and write crap posts that say nothing. I don't care. Do it too much and you'll end on the ignore list.

Look, you embarrassed yourself and now you're just trying to cover it up, but it is plain that you have no arguments to support your claim it would be in China's interests to defend the NK nuclear program. You could avoid this kind of embarrassment if you would sometimes think before posting.

 

[frigidweirdo]

But you are still making the mistake that you're not thinking like the Chinese. You're going about it as if the Chinese are Americans or something.

There is plenty of rational basis for the Chinese to risk western relations. You're just not thinking like the Chinese.

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

A lot of words to say you don't know of any reason for China to be worried about a unified Korea.

You know what, I couldn't give a shit if you have a problem with knowledge here. You want to go around telling people China has no reason to oppose a unified Korea, then fine. You can be ignorant, you can come on here and write crap posts that say nothing. I don't care. Do it too much and you'll end on the ignore list.

Look, you embarrassed yourself and now you're just trying to cover it up, but it is plain that you have no arguments to support your claim it would be in China's interests to defend the NK nuclear program. You could avoid this kind of embarrassment if you would sometimes think before posting.

Look, I don't come on here for this kind of bullshit. Bye. Enjoy the ignore list.

 

[toomuchtime_]

There are no rational benefits to come from defending NK, and I have no idea what you think about the way the Chinese think but all recent evidence is they are very rational and pragmatic.

What is "rational"?

Was invading Iraq "rational"? No, but then you can probably understand why they would do it.

The Chinese don't want the US on their border. The US is the big player in the game. The Chinese want to be top of that game.

China want to control the South China Sea, they want Taiwan back, they want to impose themselves on Vietnam, the Philippines and other countries in the region.

China set up an air defense system which encroached on other people's air zones.

They are building in the South China Seas, angering their neighbors, and they don't care. Why? Because they want CONTROL.

They use nationalism to get the support of their people. They have anti-Japanese stuff, it makes no sense unless you see how it works within nationalistic nonsense.

China is the big bully. You do what China says or you suffer because China is massively bigger than any neighbor. Japan is 10 times smaller, the Philippines is 13 times times smaller, Vietnam is 15 times smaller, all three together are much smaller than a country which is increasing its strength and willing to use it to get what they want. They don't want war, but they want to be in charge.

You don't understand this, that's fine, but you're then going and making the claim that China doesn't want something because YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RATIONAL. Er... since when did the Chinese govt listen to you? If you go to China, you'll see plenty of irrational things going on all the time, and they happen because this is China.

Again, just because the US doesn't get it, doesn't mean it isn't so. The US made this mistake in Iraq (potentially) and Trump is making this mistake with North Korea and China.

A lot of words to say you don't know of any reason for China to be worried about a unified Korea.

You know what, I couldn't give a shit if you have a problem with knowledge here. You want to go around telling people China has no reason to oppose a unified Korea, then fine. You can be ignorant, you can come on here and write crap posts that say nothing. I don't care. Do it too much and you'll end on the ignore list.

Look, you embarrassed yourself and now you're just trying to cover it up, but it is plain that you have no arguments to support your claim it would be in China's interests to defend the NK nuclear program. You could avoid this kind of embarrassment if you would sometimes think before posting.

Look, I don't come on here for this kind of bullshit. Bye. Enjoy the ignore list.

Awww, dropping out of school again?