US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion

[sealybobo]

Just take the world ABORTION out of healthcare reform. Who gives a fuck. So it won't be covered. BFD! Us pro choicers don't give a fuck!!!

When you have somethiong like 2700 pages for this debacle of a bill, you can take the word abortion out of it, but it's still there. See the problem with this lame bill?

How big was the last GOP passed bill?

How many pages do you want it to be?

The problem with this healthcare bill is that the insurance companies wrote it. Its a compromise with the insurance companies when we should be regulating/reforming the whole process. Single payer baby!!!

 

[Meister]

Just take the world ABORTION out of healthcare reform. Who gives a fuck. So it won't be covered. BFD! Us pro choicers don't give a fuck!!!

When you have somethiong like 2700 pages for this debacle of a bill, you can take the word abortion out of it, but it's still there. See the problem with this lame bill?

How big was the last GOP passed bill?

How many pages do you want it to be?

The problem with this healthcare bill is that the insurance companies wrote it. Its a compromise with the insurance companies when we should be regulating/reforming the whole process. Single payer baby!!!

Sealy, who in the hell is talking about a GOP bill? You made a statement about the word abortion, and I commented on it...plain and simple, OK?
Screw your single payer.....baby.

 

[sealybobo]

When you have somethiong like 2700 pages for this debacle of a bill, you can take the word abortion out of it, but it's still there. See the problem with this lame bill?

How big was the last GOP passed bill?

How many pages do you want it to be?

The problem with this healthcare bill is that the insurance companies wrote it. Its a compromise with the insurance companies when we should be regulating/reforming the whole process. Single payer baby!!!

Sealy, who in the hell is talking about a GOP bill? You made a statement about the word abortion, and I commented on it...plain and simple, OK?
Screw your single payer.....baby.

No, you pointed out how many pages the bill was. How many pages were their bills when the GOP were the majority party and they destroyed the economy twice? How many times did they use reconsiliation?

I'm just wondering why now you are bringing up how many pages this bill is. Is it bigger or smaller than GOP bills of the past? How big are bills supposed to be? Do you even know? No. Glen and Rush tell you its a big bloated bill and you repeat it like a parrot. Do you realize you are being manipulated?

And I get it. Its a bill that doesn't do enough to reign in the healthcare companies. But the truth is, you don't want to reign them in at all. You don't get it. Perhaps you have good coverage and don't give a shit about the rest of us.

And when I say the rest of us, I am just like you. I have good healthcare coverage. For now anyways. That doesn't mean I will tomorrow. Nor are you assured it either.

Your company probably pays for your healthcare. But more and more companies are dropping coverage, or offering less and asking the employees to pick up more and more. Hasn't happened to you? Not yet. Or it has and you don't pay attention that you are paying more. Fact is, this country collectively spends too much of our GDP on healthcare. We're being ripped off. We basically want to fire the healthcare companies who are ripping us off and you don't want to rock the boat. Or because the healthcare lobbyists have paid off the GOP and a handful of Democrats.

But how many of us can guarantee that we won't lose a job or switch jobs and find out the new insurance company won't cover your pre existing condition.

Forget tort reform. People who are wronged should be able to sue and get a lot. The corporations have more power in the courts with Alito and Roberts and you want to give the people less power? Are you insane?

 

[saveliberty]

Just take the world ABORTION out of healthcare reform. Who gives a fuck. So it won't be covered. BFD! Us pro choicers don't give a fuck!!!

When you have somethiong like 2700 pages for this debacle of a bill, you can take the word abortion out of it, but it's still there. See the problem with this lame bill?

How big was the last GOP passed bill?

How many pages do you want it to be?

The problem with this healthcare bill is that the insurance companies wrote it. Its a compromise with the insurance companies when we should be regulating/reforming the whole process. Single payer baby!!!

No, the problem is a bunch of disorganized Democrats wrote, amended and then wrote another one in the Senate. As far as your compromise claim, there was no real compromise with anyone that counts. You totally left out the payoffs to Democrats for votes. Then there's your leader who sat back for a long time ready to take the glory, but didn't really help the bill. He was very unsupportive of your government insurance option.

 

[jillian]

WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - A dozen House of Representatives Democrats opposed to abortion are willing to kill President Barack Obama's healthcare reform plan unless it satisfies their demand for language barring the procedure, Representative Bart Stupak said on Thursday.

"Yes. We're prepared to take responsibility," Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked if he and his 11 Democratic allies were willing to accept the consequences for bringing down healthcare reform over abortion.

"Let's face it. I want to see healthcare. But we're not going to bypass the principles of belief that we feel strongly about," he said.

UPDATE 2-US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion | Reuters

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

 

[saveliberty]

WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - A dozen House of Representatives Democrats opposed to abortion are willing to kill President Barack Obama's healthcare reform plan unless it satisfies their demand for language barring the procedure, Representative Bart Stupak said on Thursday.

"Yes. We're prepared to take responsibility," Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked if he and his 11 Democratic allies were willing to accept the consequences for bringing down healthcare reform over abortion.

"Let's face it. I want to see healthcare. But we're not going to bypass the principles of belief that we feel strongly about," he said.

UPDATE 2-US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion | Reuters

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

They are about to kiss your ass. I think it means good bye.

 

[jillian]

WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - A dozen House of Representatives Democrats opposed to abortion are willing to kill President Barack Obama's healthcare reform plan unless it satisfies their demand for language barring the procedure, Representative Bart Stupak said on Thursday.

"Yes. We're prepared to take responsibility," Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked if he and his 11 Democratic allies were willing to accept the consequences for bringing down healthcare reform over abortion.

"Let's face it. I want to see healthcare. But we're not going to bypass the principles of belief that we feel strongly about," he said.

UPDATE 2-US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion | Reuters

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

They are about to kiss your ass. I think it means good bye.

no. there will be a compromise. i wouldn't start doing the happy dance yet if i were you.

 

[del]

WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - A dozen House of Representatives Democrats opposed to abortion are willing to kill President Barack Obama's healthcare reform plan unless it satisfies their demand for language barring the procedure, Representative Bart Stupak said on Thursday.

"Yes. We're prepared to take responsibility," Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked if he and his 11 Democratic allies were willing to accept the consequences for bringing down healthcare reform over abortion.

"Let's face it. I want to see healthcare. But we're not going to bypass the principles of belief that we feel strongly about," he said.

UPDATE 2-US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion | Reuters

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

according to stupak, the hyde amendment doesn't apply to the health care bill because it is not an appropriations bill but an *act* of congress. i don't pretend to know whether he's right or wrong, but he and his colleagues are adamant that they won't vote for the senate bill as it currently is written.

 

[jillian]

WASHINGTON, March 4 (Reuters) - A dozen House of Representatives Democrats opposed to abortion are willing to kill President Barack Obama's healthcare reform plan unless it satisfies their demand for language barring the procedure, Representative Bart Stupak said on Thursday.

"Yes. We're prepared to take responsibility," Stupak said on ABC's "Good Morning America" when asked if he and his 11 Democratic allies were willing to accept the consequences for bringing down healthcare reform over abortion.

"Let's face it. I want to see healthcare. But we're not going to bypass the principles of belief that we feel strongly about," he said.

UPDATE 2-US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion | Reuters

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

according to stupak, the hyde amendment doesn't apply to the health care bill because it is not an appropriations bill but an *act* of congress. i don't pretend to know whether he's right or wrong, but he and his colleagues are adamant that they won't vote for the senate bill as it currently is written.

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

 

[saveliberty]

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

They are about to kiss your ass. I think it means good bye.

no. there will be a compromise. i wouldn't start doing the happy dance yet if i were you.

If you call clarifying the abortion status in the bill a compromise, I guess you can call it that. I call it a win for Stupak and his group. Since it alters the bill it will also mean the House AND Senate will have to vote on it. Sounds more complicated to me. The only ones with premature happy dances on this has been 0bama. What? Three or four times now?

 

[del]

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

according to stupak, the hyde amendment doesn't apply to the health care bill because it is not an appropriations bill but an *act* of congress. i don't pretend to know whether he's right or wrong, but he and his colleagues are adamant that they won't vote for the senate bill as it currently is written.

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

i don't understand your first point- he's been prolife forever and he's won his last 3 or 4 elections with 60+% of the vote so i'd think it's the prolifers that brung him to the dance or at least gave him gas money.

 

[California Girl]

It's idiocy. The Hyde Amendment already does that. What they want are ADDITIONAL restrictions.

The pretend dems can kiss my butt.

according to stupak, the hyde amendment doesn't apply to the health care bill because it is not an appropriations bill but an *act* of congress. i don't pretend to know whether he's right or wrong, but he and his colleagues are adamant that they won't vote for the senate bill as it currently is written.

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

Actually, Stupak is right. Hyde doesn't apply. I checked through a variety of sources and each came back with the same answer. Hyde does not apply to this bill. If Stupak does not stand his ground, a loophole will be created that will allow federal funding for abortion. Hence the Catholic Church refusing to support it, hence anyone who is anti-abortion refusing to support it. Whether you like it or not, fact is that millions of Americans are fundamentally opposed to the possibility of taxpayers money being spent on abortion.

Oh, and just for the sheer hell of it..... 14 months, 1 supermajority and no bill. Why is that? Cuz no matter which way you look at it, the GOP ain't holding up healthcare.

 

[jillian]

according to stupak, the hyde amendment doesn't apply to the health care bill because it is not an appropriations bill but an *act* of congress. i don't pretend to know whether he's right or wrong, but he and his colleagues are adamant that they won't vote for the senate bill as it currently is written.

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

Actually, Stupak is right. Hyde doesn't apply. I checked through a variety of sources and each came back with the same answer. Hyde does not apply to this bill. If Stupak does not stand his ground, a loophole will be created that will allow federal funding for abortion. Hence the Catholic Church refusing to support it, hence anyone who is anti-abortion refusing to support it. Whether you like it or not, fact is that millions of Americans are fundamentally opposed to the possibility of taxpayers money being spent on abortion.

Oh, and just for the sheer hell of it..... 14 months, 1 supermajority and no bill. Why is that? Cuz no matter which way you look at it, the GOP ain't holding up healthcare.

i'm interested in your 'sources'. cause i don't see it and i'd need to be convinced.

the catholic church should worry about its own morality and not everyone elses. seriously... and certainly they shouldn't have a say in the laws that effect ME.

I'm fundamentally opposed to spending absurd sums of money on pointless wars of choice.

That didn't seem to be a concern for the prior eight years.

 

[saveliberty]

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

Actually, Stupak is right. Hyde doesn't apply. I checked through a variety of sources and each came back with the same answer. Hyde does not apply to this bill. If Stupak does not stand his ground, a loophole will be created that will allow federal funding for abortion. Hence the Catholic Church refusing to support it, hence anyone who is anti-abortion refusing to support it. Whether you like it or not, fact is that millions of Americans are fundamentally opposed to the possibility of taxpayers money being spent on abortion.

Oh, and just for the sheer hell of it..... 14 months, 1 supermajority and no bill. Why is that? Cuz no matter which way you look at it, the GOP ain't holding up healthcare.

i'm interested in your 'sources'. cause i don't see it and i'd need to be convinced.

the catholic church should worry about its own morality and not everyone elses. seriously... and certainly they shouldn't have a say in the laws that effect ME.

I'm fundamentally opposed to spending absurd sums of money on pointless wars of choice.

That didn't seem to be a concern for the prior eight years.

Abortion Coverage in President Obama's Health Care Reform Bill

Abortion Coverage Dispute Halts Health Bill - Health News Story - WYFF Greenville

"The House responded by adopting Stupak's amendment, although it was opposed by most Democrats. It says no health insurance plan receiving federal subsidies can pay for abortion, except under the three exceptions already allowed by federal law. Women who want insurance coverage for abortion would have to buy a separate policy.

The Senate bill took a different approach. It says health insurance plans operating in a new consumer marketplace can cover abortion, but may be paid for with private premiums. Money from federal subsidies would have to be strictly segregated from any funds used to pay for abortion. Consumers would have to write two checks to their insurance plan, one for the regular premium, the other for abortion coverage."

Why the Obama Plan Changes the Status Quo on Abortion

"For example, under the Mikulski Amendment to the Senate bill, an administrative agency may determine that abortion is “preventive care” and then require all insurance companies to cover abortion. If that happens, all Americans will be forced to pay for abortions through their insurance premiums, even in violation of their conscience."

Emphasis on "may", currently that is not the case.

 

[Foxfyre]

Actually, Stupak is right. Hyde doesn't apply. I checked through a variety of sources and each came back with the same answer. Hyde does not apply to this bill. If Stupak does not stand his ground, a loophole will be created that will allow federal funding for abortion. Hence the Catholic Church refusing to support it, hence anyone who is anti-abortion refusing to support it. Whether you like it or not, fact is that millions of Americans are fundamentally opposed to the possibility of taxpayers money being spent on abortion.

Oh, and just for the sheer hell of it..... 14 months, 1 supermajority and no bill. Why is that? Cuz no matter which way you look at it, the GOP ain't holding up healthcare.

i'm interested in your 'sources'. cause i don't see it and i'd need to be convinced.

the catholic church should worry about its own morality and not everyone elses. seriously... and certainly they shouldn't have a say in the laws that effect ME.

I'm fundamentally opposed to spending absurd sums of money on pointless wars of choice.

That didn't seem to be a concern for the prior eight years.

Abortion Coverage in President Obama's Health Care Reform Bill

Abortion Coverage Dispute Halts Health Bill - Health News Story - WYFF Greenville

"The House responded by adopting Stupak's amendment, although it was opposed by most Democrats. It says no health insurance plan receiving federal subsidies can pay for abortion, except under the three exceptions already allowed by federal law. Women who want insurance coverage for abortion would have to buy a separate policy.

The Senate bill took a different approach. It says health insurance plans operating in a new consumer marketplace can cover abortion, but may be paid for with private premiums. Money from federal subsidies would have to be strictly segregated from any funds used to pay for abortion. Consumers would have to write two checks to their insurance plan, one for the regular premium, the other for abortion coverage."

Why the Obama Plan Changes the Status Quo on Abortion

"For example, under the Mikulski Amendment to the Senate bill, an administrative agency may determine that abortion is “preventive care” and then require all insurance companies to cover abortion. If that happens, all Americans will be forced to pay for abortions through their insurance premiums, even in violation of their conscience."

Emphasis on "may", currently that is not the case.

Bottom line, most Americans, probably even most pro-choicers, don't want to pay for other peoples' abortion for convenience. And as it stands, it is uncertain whether that will be the case under Obamacare should it pass. 'Separate funds' would likely just be one of those creative accounting things and add to the bureaucracy necessary to keep the records.

But given the situation, looks to me like zeroing in on abortion as THE issue in healthcare reform is allowing a whole bunch of people to avoid having to admit or deal with the even more important aspects of government controlled healthcare.

 

[xsited1]

US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion

I would've said "Democrats would Abort healthcare over Abortion."

However, in this case, "Abort" and "Kill" are the same thing.

 

[Foxfyre]

US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion

I would've said "Democrats would Abort healthcare over Abortion."

However, in this case, "Abort" and "Kill" are the same thing.

Yeah. I still think though that the abortion issue, while important to many Americans, is simply being used as a dodge to avoid having to deal with the more insidious economic implications of government controlled healthcare.

 

[California Girl]

stupid stupak is an ijit... a) you don't screw thems that brung you to the dance; b) the Hyde Amendment, as far as I can tell prohibits expenditures of federal funds on abortions.

Personally, I think that's really stupid. But it's the law.

And Stupak needs to stop his little song and dance.

Actually, Stupak is right. Hyde doesn't apply. I checked through a variety of sources and each came back with the same answer. Hyde does not apply to this bill. If Stupak does not stand his ground, a loophole will be created that will allow federal funding for abortion. Hence the Catholic Church refusing to support it, hence anyone who is anti-abortion refusing to support it. Whether you like it or not, fact is that millions of Americans are fundamentally opposed to the possibility of taxpayers money being spent on abortion.

Oh, and just for the sheer hell of it..... 14 months, 1 supermajority and no bill. Why is that? Cuz no matter which way you look at it, the GOP ain't holding up healthcare.

i'm interested in your 'sources'. cause i don't see it and i'd need to be convinced.

the catholic church should worry about its own morality and not everyone elses. seriously... and certainly they shouldn't have a say in the laws that effect ME.

I'm fundamentally opposed to spending absurd sums of money on pointless wars of choice.

That didn't seem to be a concern for the prior eight years.

Why is it that we must continually compare apples and orangutans? Is it such a hard concept to treat abortion and war as two separate issues?

If you are that interested in Hyde/Stupak then do what I did. Dig for information and contact some experts. My sources are mine - they are of no relevance to anyone else. Information is there if anyone chooses to look hard enough for it. I personally choose to obtain factual information and decide for myself. You can do likewise.

The Catholic Church has as much right as any other organization to hold an opinion on abortion. They have this issue about protecting the life of the unborn.... something to do with Christianity, I think. So while you are welcome to hold your opinion, the Church is equally at liberty to make its own views known. They don't vote, they aren't congress. Chill. It is the view of a major religion - no more, no less. Non Catholics are welcome to take no notice.

 

[Valerie]

i'm interested in your 'sources'. cause i don't see it and i'd need to be convinced.

the catholic church should worry about its own morality and not everyone elses. seriously... and certainly they shouldn't have a say in the laws that effect ME.

I'm fundamentally opposed to spending absurd sums of money on pointless wars of choice.

That didn't seem to be a concern for the prior eight years.

Abortion Coverage in President Obama's Health Care Reform Bill

Abortion Coverage Dispute Halts Health Bill - Health News Story - WYFF Greenville

"The House responded by adopting Stupak's amendment, although it was opposed by most Democrats. It says no health insurance plan receiving federal subsidies can pay for abortion, except under the three exceptions already allowed by federal law. Women who want insurance coverage for abortion would have to buy a separate policy.

The Senate bill took a different approach. It says health insurance plans operating in a new consumer marketplace can cover abortion, but may be paid for with private premiums. Money from federal subsidies would have to be strictly segregated from any funds used to pay for abortion. Consumers would have to write two checks to their insurance plan, one for the regular premium, the other for abortion coverage."

Why the Obama Plan Changes the Status Quo on Abortion

"For example, under the Mikulski Amendment to the Senate bill, an administrative agency may determine that abortion is “preventive care” and then require all insurance companies to cover abortion. If that happens, all Americans will be forced to pay for abortions through their insurance premiums, even in violation of their conscience."

Emphasis on "may", currently that is not the case.

Bottom line, most Americans, probably even most pro-choicers, don't want to pay for other peoples' abortion for convenience. And as it stands, it is uncertain whether that will be the case under Obamacare should it pass. 'Separate funds' would likely just be one of those creative accounting things and add to the bureaucracy necessary to keep the records.

But given the situation, looks to me like zeroing in on abortion as THE issue in healthcare reform is allowing a whole bunch of people to avoid having to admit or deal with the even more important aspects of government controlled healthcare.

I don't blame people for not wanting to subsidize abortion with federal funds.

I happen to choose life, and I respect that some people choose to speak for the unborn, but I also respect a woman's right to privacy and I believe this is the most humane way to handle this extremely personal issue...The right to choose simply amounts to the right to not be told by the government that you must bear a child to term once impregnated.

The law in fact agrees and protects a woman's right to choose...The law says it is a private decision between the woman and her doctor.



Isn't this is a prime example of the slippery slope we could be getting into with a government controlled healthcare plan...? Why should people be denied equal access to a legal medical procedure that is typically part of standard healthcare coverage? Why put the government in the position of setting the legal precedent to deny coverage on this basis?


Separation of Church and State, anyone?


I mean, what's next??? I'm sure some people, if they had the power and authority to do so, would "out of good conscience" choose to not cover certain people or procedures for other reasons..........?

 

[xsited1]

US Democrats would kill healthcare over abortion

I would've said "Democrats would Abort healthcare over Abortion."

However, in this case, "Abort" and "Kill" are the same thing.

Yeah. I still think though that the abortion issue, while important to many Americans, is simply being used as a dodge to avoid having to deal with the more insidious economic implications of government controlled healthcare.

As long as the right choices are made, I don't care what rational is used.