US carries out the 1st federal execution in nearly 2 decades

[Andylusion]

Why would that matter? This guy is a murder, that was involved in the murder of four people.

How many actually innocent people, must die before you want it stopped?

He's locked up for the rest of his life, he isn't going to murder anyone else.

There nothing barbaric about justice being served. What is barbaric is you people, that caused that 8-year-old and her parents to be killed.

I think you are a little confused. This guy and his partner (who did the actual killing and didn't get the DP) are white supremacists... They really belong to your side of the spectrum. They just took it a little farther.

You did that. This guy was caught back when he was 17, and you people allowed him to live. Which caused 3 more people, one being that 8 year old girl, to be murdered.

YOU are the barbaric one.

When he was caught when he was 17, he hadn't killed anyone, another man did. He served 5 years. During that five years, they did nothing to actually reform him, and that was the problem.

The bigger problem, of course, is that Chevie Kehoe, the guy who planned and carried out the murders got three life sentences, while this guy, who was just a follower got death. It shows how arbitrary the system is.

Ironically, the two people who pushed the DP for this schlub were Janet Reno and Eric Holder.

Every single time.
Every single time they have a chance, they side with criminals. I have yet to see a single left-winger support justice against real criminals yet.

They attack police. They attack the public. They attack private law abiding citizens. They attack the law. They attack everything and everyone.... except for the Criminals.

Uh, guy, we lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on parole. What we are doing isn't working.

AOC just said the reason for the mass number of murders in NYC... was because "Well they want to feed their kids and....."

Literally what she said. Never once do they condemn the criminal for engaging in crime. Never.

I'm sure she said nothing of the sort, but she's your new obsession.

There is something we should change.

From the date the sentence is prescribed, the defendant has two (2) years to exhaust all appeals. If not, the sentence is carried out the next day.

Again, the appeal system we have now has found 156 people on Death Row who didn't belong there. We've probably executed 11 people by accident. I'm really not inclined to expedite a flawed process.

He's locked up for the rest of his life, he isn't going to murder anyone else.

Man, released from prison after being deemed too old to be a threat, convicted in another killing

The 77-year-old man served decades in prison for stabbing his wife and is now being convicted of an almost identical crime.

www.usatoday.com

Not with you people around.

Alabama inmate convicted of murder on the loose after escaping custody

A convicted murder is on the loose after escaping from a work-release facility in Alabama, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

When they are in the ground under 6 feet of dirt, then you can say he isn't going to murder anyone else.

As long as he's alive, he can kill again.

FDLE still hopes to find convicted murderer who escaped from Polk County prison 30 years ago

Thirty years ago, a convicted murderer pulled off a disappearing act. A man who beat his girlfriend to death concealed himself inside a delivery truck, rode right off the prison grounds in Polk City and out of the grasp of the justice system. It wasn’t his first jail escape – but it was his most...

www.fox13news.com

If that guy kills someone, that's just more blood on YOUR hands. Because he'd be in the ground, if I was in charge. You and your ideology is why more people are murdered. Not mine.

This guy and his partner (who did the actual killing and didn't get the DP) are white supremacists... They really belong to your side of the spectrum. They just took it a little farther.

I have zero in common with any supremacist. There isn't one single thing that I believe, that white supremacists believe.

Moreover, we're talking about how crime should be punished. That dude would be dead, long before killing those people or that little girl.

No matter what their political views are, or your political views are.... it was your views, that allowed them to be alive, to kill people. Not mine. You killed those people. Not me.

During that five years, they did nothing to actually reform him, and that was the problem.

Right. As if you can take someone who believes that there is nothing morally wrong with killing people you don't like, and taking human life, and if you give them a lesson on ethics that they are going to suddenly sit up and go "Oh golly! So what I did wasn't good?".

You just basically proved my point that you are responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.

The bigger problem, of course, is that Chevie Kehoe, the guy who planned and carried out the murders got three life sentences, while this guy, who was just a follower got death. It shows how arbitrary the system is.

Dumb argument, especially since if it was up to you, both would be alive to kill again.

Regardless, you don't know enough to make the claim that it was arbitrary. Since Kehoe didn't have a criminal history, he was likely given a lessor sentence than someone who had already murdered before, and had no problem murdering again.

Uh, guy, we lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on parole. What we are doing isn't working.

Yeah, and that's your system. Dude I agree! Amen! Your system isn't working.

You know how many murders Singapore has on average, in a city of almost 6 million? Less than 1 a year.

You want to know why? Because they kill the criminals. And not only do they kill the criminals, but they do it fast. Swift clear justice is served.

The last time I looked up a Singapore execution, it was a guy who found a girl in a department store, lured her into bathroom, and raped and strangled her. From murder to conviction was 2 years. From conviction to execution, was 2 years. In less than 48 months, they hanged this guy.

That's why Singapore has some years, where they record ZERO murders in a city of almost 6 million.

Chicago had more murders over the last weekend, than Singapore had over the past DECADE.

YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS. You are getting people killed. You need to stop that crap, and let real men take over the justice system, and we will put these criminal bits of scum, in the ground.

You show up with drugs? You hang. You kidnap and rape? You hang. You murder people in cold blood? You hang.

We'll have this place fixed up in five years. As soon as we start executing these people in months instead of decades, you'll see the culture change. Won't be gangsters rapping about how they murder people anymore, and having 'music' videos of them being all gang bangers, because people will figure out where that life leads, when we start burying their electrified butts in the ground.

I'm sure she said nothing of the sort, but she's your new obsession.

What are you talking about? She's the one that posted the video of herself saying it.

Again, the appeal system we have now has found 156 people on Death Row who didn't belong there. We've probably executed 11 people by accident. I'm really not inclined to expedite a flawed process.

Yeah and 66 thousand people between 2015 and 2018 were murdered, thanks to you not being inclined to expedite a flawed process.

66 thousands innocent people, dead because of you. YOU. You own that. It's you people that killed thousands on thousands on thousands of people. YOU did it.

 

[JoeB131]

Not with you people around.

Um, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, that was the thing. The thing is, both he and his victim were living in a homeless shelter.... kind of awesome the richest country in the world still has millions of homeless. Makes me proud to be an American.

Yeah, and that's your system. Dude I agree! Amen! Your system isn't working.

You know how many murders Singapore has on average, in a city of almost 6 million? Less than 1 a year.

Okay. Singapore also has really strict Gun control. It also has a system of social welfare. If you are going to make comparisons, let make comparisons.

Singapore has 18 murders a year, not less than 1.

Guns in Singapore — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Singapore, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

But they also don't let their citizens have guns. In fact, there are only 22,000 guns among those 6 million people.

Right now, Singapore only locks up 11,000 of that 6 million, or 0.18% of their population.
We lock up 2 million people out of 300 million, or 1.5% of our population.

Yeah and 66 thousand people between 2015 and 2018 were murdered, thanks to you not being inclined to expedite a flawed process.

66 thousands innocent people, dead because of you. YOU. You own that. It's you people that killed thousands on thousands on thousands of people. YOU did it.

That works on the assumption that the Death Penalty is a deterrent. Let's leave aside the European countries that abolished the DP and have much lower crime rates than we do (Because they put their efforts in gun control and social welfare instead of prisons and executions.)

Let's look at US States that have the death penalty vs. those that don't. Since according to you, executing people is a deterrent, right?

Um. Wrong.

States with the Death Penalty have HIGHER murder rates than those that don't.

 

[JoeB131]

Dumb argument, especially since if it was up to you, both would be alive to kill again.

Regardless, you don't know enough to make the claim that it was arbitrary. Since Kehoe didn't have a criminal history, he was likely given a lessor sentence than someone who had already murdered before, and had no problem murdering again.

Uh, wow. maybe you should actually do some research before you make yourself look stupid.

Chevie Kehoe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In June 1995, Kehoe and an accomplice kidnapped and robbed Malcolm and Jill Friedman, a couple believed to be Jewish, who owned a store at which Kehoe was once employed.[17]



On February 15, 1997, Kehoe and his brother Cheyne were involved in a shootout with an Ohio State Highway Patrol trooper, J Harold Harker and a deputy sheriff, Robert Gates, in Wilmington, Ohio. The Highway Patrol trooper had stopped their vehicle, a blue Chevy Suburban, for driving too slowly and erratically on the road and found the license plate and registration had expired; the brothers also failed to produce any driver's licenses. Chevie, the driver, complied with the officer's orders to get out of the car but warned him against touching him when he tried to search him. The deputy noticed the trouble the state trooper was having with Chevie and stopped to help. As one of the officers called for a tow truck to impound the vehicle, Chevie suddenly began to dash back to the vehicle with the officers in pursuit. The officers had pinned Chevie to a patrol car and were trying to subdue him when Cheyne produced a handgun from his passenger seat and opened fire at the officers, allowing Chevie to jump back into the Suburban and escape. Cheyne himself fled into the nearby woods, where police searched unsuccessfully for him for the whole day. The shootout was recorded on the trooper's dashboard camera in his patrol vehicle and was widely broadcast in the media at the time.[23][24][25][26] Footage of the shootout was first aired in 1997 on FOX's World's Scariest Police Shootouts. Since then it has been shown on television programs such as Most Shocking, Police In Pursuits, World's Most Amazing Videos, and Under Fire.

 

[Auld Phart]

Why would that matter? This guy is a murder, that was involved in the murder of four people.

How many actually innocent people, must die before you want it stopped?

He's locked up for the rest of his life, he isn't going to murder anyone else.

There nothing barbaric about justice being served. What is barbaric is you people, that caused that 8-year-old and her parents to be killed.

I think you are a little confused. This guy and his partner (who did the actual killing and didn't get the DP) are white supremacists... They really belong to your side of the spectrum. They just took it a little farther.

You did that. This guy was caught back when he was 17, and you people allowed him to live. Which caused 3 more people, one being that 8 year old girl, to be murdered.

YOU are the barbaric one.

When he was caught when he was 17, he hadn't killed anyone, another man did. He served 5 years. During that five years, they did nothing to actually reform him, and that was the problem.

The bigger problem, of course, is that Chevie Kehoe, the guy who planned and carried out the murders got three life sentences, while this guy, who was just a follower got death. It shows how arbitrary the system is.

Ironically, the two people who pushed the DP for this schlub were Janet Reno and Eric Holder.

Every single time.
Every single time they have a chance, they side with criminals. I have yet to see a single left-winger support justice against real criminals yet.

They attack police. They attack the public. They attack private law abiding citizens. They attack the law. They attack everything and everyone.... except for the Criminals.

Uh, guy, we lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on parole. What we are doing isn't working.

AOC just said the reason for the mass number of murders in NYC... was because "Well they want to feed their kids and....."

Literally what she said. Never once do they condemn the criminal for engaging in crime. Never.

I'm sure she said nothing of the sort, but she's your new obsession.

There is something we should change.

From the date the sentence is prescribed, the defendant has two (2) years to exhaust all appeals. If not, the sentence is carried out the next day.

Again, the appeal system we have now has found 156 people on Death Row who didn't belong there. We've probably executed 11 people by accident. I'm really not inclined to expedite a flawed process.

He's locked up for the rest of his life, he isn't going to murder anyone else.

They thought the same about Christopher Scarver.

(The man that beat Jeffrey Dahmer to death in prison)

 

[JoeB131]

They thought the same about Christopher Scarver.

(The man that beat Jeffrey Dahmer to death in prison)

You're sad they killed Jeff Dahmner in prison?

The real problem there was Chef Jeff belonged in a mental hospital, not a prison.

But, naw, let's throw him in with angry black guys after he killed and ate black boys.

 

[Auld Phart]

They thought the same about Christopher Scarver.

(The man that beat Jeffrey Dahmer to death in prison)

You're sad they killed Jeff Dahmner in prison?

The real problem there was Chef Jeff belonged in a mental hospital, not a prison.

But, naw, let's throw him in with angry black guys after he killed and ate black boys.

 

[martybegan]

They had prisons.

The Constitution explicitly says it's allowed.

And for some crimes we should hang people still.

Wow, Marty so much anger... Why don't we bring back Drawing and Quartering, that should satisfy your blood lust.

Dumbass the family was WHITE. What makes him a white supremacists?

The fact he belonged to a group called the Ayran People's Republic, and was stealing money and weapons to start a white homeland. In fact, his accomplice, the one who didn't get the DP, the one who masterminded the whole thing, had robbed this guy before.

Hanging is good enough, it worked on the Nazis.

 

[Andylusion]

Not with you people around.

Um, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, that was the thing. The thing is, both he and his victim were living in a homeless shelter.... kind of awesome the richest country in the world still has millions of homeless. Makes me proud to be an American.

Yeah, and that's your system. Dude I agree! Amen! Your system isn't working.

You know how many murders Singapore has on average, in a city of almost 6 million? Less than 1 a year.

Okay. Singapore also has really strict Gun control. It also has a system of social welfare. If you are going to make comparisons, let make comparisons.

Singapore has 18 murders a year, not less than 1.

Guns in Singapore — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Singapore, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

But they also don't let their citizens have guns. In fact, there are only 22,000 guns among those 6 million people.

Right now, Singapore only locks up 11,000 of that 6 million, or 0.18% of their population.
We lock up 2 million people out of 300 million, or 1.5% of our population.

Yeah and 66 thousand people between 2015 and 2018 were murdered, thanks to you not being inclined to expedite a flawed process.

66 thousands innocent people, dead because of you. YOU. You own that. It's you people that killed thousands on thousands on thousands of people. YOU did it.

That works on the assumption that the Death Penalty is a deterrent. Let's leave aside the European countries that abolished the DP and have much lower crime rates than we do (Because they put their efforts in gun control and social welfare instead of prisons and executions.)

Let's look at US States that have the death penalty vs. those that don't. Since according to you, executing people is a deterrent, right?

Um. Wrong.

States with the Death Penalty have HIGHER murder rates than those that don't.

View attachment 363597

Um, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, that was the thing.

Yeah... I know. You said "he'll be locked up for the rest of his life"... and here we have a murder who I'm sure some idiot on forum somewhere, said he'd be locked up for the rest of his life too. Gee, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, and murdered again.

See, again if it was my way... that dude would have been executed, and we wouldn't be having this conversations.

Unlike you, when I say that Robert J. Van Hook will never murder again... I know he won't murder again, because he's in the ground.

You saying he won't murder again, means nothing. When I say they won't murder again.... they won't. Haven't seen a dead person murder again yet.

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article229839484.html

Numerous prison guards killed. Some by multiple convicted murderers. But thanks to you, and those like you, they were able to murder again. More blood on your hands.

The thing is, both he and his victim were living in a homeless shelter.... kind of awesome the richest country in the world still has millions of homeless. Makes me proud to be an American.

That is the exact kind of deflection and excuse making, that is why you are responsible for the deaths of thousands on thousands of people.

That has nothing to do with this discussion at all. Nothing.

Chris Gardner was homeless and impoverished too. He got a job, learned some skills, and now is a multimillionaire. Being poor or homeless, does not excuse murder. And only an idiot with blood on his hands, brings that up in a discussion about crime.

Chris Gardner - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Singapore has 18 murders a year, not less than 1.

Less than 1 per 100,000 population. My mistake.

Okay. Singapore also has really strict Gun control. It also has a system of social welfare. If you are going to make comparisons, let make comparisons.

First, we have a huge social welfare system. Second, you don't know what you are talking about. Singapore has the very opposite of the welfare system. They don't have welfare and food stamps and medicaid/medicare, like we do. Citizens of Singapore, rely very little on the government, and very much on themselves.

Singapore: A Fascinating Alternative To The Welfare State

Lee Kuan Yew, the first prime minister of Singapore, died last week at age 91. Almost every obituary has remarked on the radical transition his leadership heralded. As John Fund wrote at National Review: By embracing free trade, capital formation, vigorous meritocratic education, low taxes, and...

www.forbes.com

If you want to adopt the Singapore version of welfare.... I AM A HUGE FAN. I would vote in favor of almost any of the policies that Singapore has.

Third, as far as gun control... have you seen the gun control laws of New York City? They are more restrictive than the gun laws of Singapore. Yet the crime of New York is insane, and the crime in Singapore is not.

And don't give me this whiny "but all the other states!" because Singapore is surrounded by countries with massive gun deaths.

The difference is the fact they enforce the law, and execute the criminals.

Just compare the gun laws, and crime rates between Singapore and the UK, London, and Sydney Australia, or any number of other places with similarly restrictive gun laws and bans. Singapore has a fraction of the crime.

The difference is, they kill the criminals.

That works on the assumption that the Death Penalty is a deterrent. Let's leave aside the European countries that abolished the DP and have much lower crime rates than we do (Because they put their efforts in gun control and social welfare instead of prisons and executions.)

Let's look at US States that have the death penalty vs. those that don't. Since according to you, executing people is a deterrent, right?

Of course the death penalty is a deterrent. Murderers put to death, have never murdered a single person yet. Not one single murderer that is put to death under my ideology, or Singapore's system, has ever murdered again.

I can list HUNDREDS of people under your system of not putting them to death, that have killed again. Hundreds of people murdered, by your ideology.

Further, the death penalty is only effective when it is used, and used swiftly.

Deterrence only works, when justice is actually carried out.

Robert Van Hook here in Ohio, was executed 33 years after the murder.

That's not justice. Of course that isn't going to be a deterrent to the wider criminal element, because not having to worry about being punished for 3 decades, is not a deterrent.

In Singapore, it's a couple of years, and then you are hanged. There is none of this 3 decades later, and maybe we'll have justice in Singapore.

Justice must be carried out swiftly.

We had a guy in Florida, spend 40 years, and died peacefully of natural causes.... Never had to work, or pay bills, and lived out his life, on the tax money of those victims he abused.... How sweet and lovely.

That's not justice. And then you ask "why isn't the death penalty a deterrent?" You are why. YOU are. People like you, that allow the most evil and monstrous people in our nation, live decades without facing justice, and then have the idiocy to ask why it isn't a deterrent.

 

[Andylusion]

Dumb argument, especially since if it was up to you, both would be alive to kill again.

Regardless, you don't know enough to make the claim that it was arbitrary. Since Kehoe didn't have a criminal history, he was likely given a lessor sentence than someone who had already murdered before, and had no problem murdering again.

Uh, wow. maybe you should actually do some research before you make yourself look stupid.

Chevie Kehoe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In June 1995, Kehoe and an accomplice kidnapped and robbed Malcolm and Jill Friedman, a couple believed to be Jewish, who owned a store at which Kehoe was once employed.[17]



On February 15, 1997, Kehoe and his brother Cheyne were involved in a shootout with an Ohio State Highway Patrol trooper, J Harold Harker and a deputy sheriff, Robert Gates, in Wilmington, Ohio. The Highway Patrol trooper had stopped their vehicle, a blue Chevy Suburban, for driving too slowly and erratically on the road and found the license plate and registration had expired; the brothers also failed to produce any driver's licenses. Chevie, the driver, complied with the officer's orders to get out of the car but warned him against touching him when he tried to search him. The deputy noticed the trouble the state trooper was having with Chevie and stopped to help. As one of the officers called for a tow truck to impound the vehicle, Chevie suddenly began to dash back to the vehicle with the officers in pursuit. The officers had pinned Chevie to a patrol car and were trying to subdue him when Cheyne produced a handgun from his passenger seat and opened fire at the officers, allowing Chevie to jump back into the Suburban and escape. Cheyne himself fled into the nearby woods, where police searched unsuccessfully for him for the whole day. The shootout was recorded on the trooper's dashboard camera in his patrol vehicle and was widely broadcast in the media at the time.[23][24][25][26] Footage of the shootout was first aired in 1997 on FOX's World's Scariest Police Shootouts. Since then it has been shown on television programs such as Most Shocking, Police In Pursuits, World's Most Amazing Videos, and Under Fire.

The Wiki article is screwed up. If you missed it... look at the first line.
Kehoe and his brother Cheyne

Both of them are Kehoe. Kehoe is their last name.

Chevie was the ring leader. His brother Cheyne (don't name your kids with such dumb names. No wonder they ended up freaks), is the guy who was shooting at police.

Chevie just jumped back into the truck and fled.

Equally Chevie was at best an accomplice in the Friedman robbery. It was Lovelace who actually robbed them. It's even somewhat questionable, because I can't even find where Chevie was convicted of this.

So again, we're comparing this guy, to a man who had already spent time in prison specifically for murder.

I don't see this as unreasonable.

Chevie was like the mafia boss, that has all his underlings do the dirty work, so he can avoid getting dirty.

Now, again as I said before.... I would have this guy executed too. If you ask someone else do the murder, in my book that is worth a shot to the head as well.

Like I said before, my system is the system America used to have. If you were found with horse thieves, you hanged with horse thieves. I'm all for that.

Chevie was caught hanging out with murderers, then he should hanged with the murderers.

Your system is the one we have. Not mine. If we had my system in place, stuff like this wouldn't happen.

 

[Markle]

Uh, guy, we lock up 2 million people and have another 7 million on parole. What we are doing isn't working.

Except for large Democrat-run cities, crime is down in America. So, what we are doing is working.

I'm sure she said nothing of the sort, but she's your new obsession.

Well, actually she said just that. Here is her quote.
AOC: NYC Crime Spike Is Probably Because People 'Need To Shoplift Some Bread'

AOC Floats Absurd Reason for Crime Spike in NYC

By Johnathan Jones
Published July 13, 2020 at 8:14am

New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez suggested the current surge in crime in New York City is the result of financially struggling residents’ efforts to feed their children.
[...]
“Why is this uptick in crime happening? Well, let’s think about it. Do we think this has to do with the fact that there’s record unemployment in the United States right now? The fact that people are at a level of economic desperation that we have not seen since the great recession?” she said.

“Maybe this has to do with the fact that people aren’t paying their rent and are scared to pay their rent, and so they go out and they need to feed their child and they don’t have money.
“So you maybe have to — they’re put in a position where they feel like they either need to shoplift some bread or go hungry that night. …

AOC Tries Explaining Crime Spike in NYC: Maybe People 'Need To Shoplift Some Bread'

Ocasio-Cortez suggested crime is surging in New York because people are trying to feed their children amid economic uncertainty.

www.westernjournal.com

Again, the appeal system we have now has found 156 people on Death Row who didn't belong there. We've probably executed 11 people by accident. I'm really not inclined to expedite a flawed process.

So the appeal process worked.

PROBABLY EXECUTED? Show us the proof that they did not commit the heinous murders they were convicted of having done.

NO ONE was executed by ACCIDENT. They were executed after a fair trial and numerous appeals.

 

[Markle]

That works on the assumption that the Death Penalty is a deterrent. Let's leave aside the European countries that abolished the DP and have much lower crime rates than we do (Because they put their efforts in gun control and social welfare instead of prisons and executions.)

As you know, most European countries have much higher violent crime rates than we have in the United States.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah... I know. You said "he'll be locked up for the rest of his life"... and here we have a murder who I'm sure some idiot on forum somewhere, said he'd be locked up for the rest of his life too. Gee, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, and murdered again.

See, again if it was my way... that dude would have been executed, and we wouldn't be having this conversations.

If he was locked up for the rest of his life, we wouldn't have this conversation. If we didn't have people living on the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation, either.

Well, actually she said just that. Here is her quote.
AOC: NYC Crime Spike Is Probably Because People 'Need To Shoplift Some Bread'

So it wasn't what you presented it as... good to know.

That is the exact kind of deflection and excuse making, that is why you are responsible for the deaths of thousands on thousands of people.

That has nothing to do with this discussion at all. Nothing.

Sure it does. We drop this guy onto the streets with no job prospects into an environment where people are killing each other for a bit of food, and you don't think that's the problem?

 

[JoeB131]

So again, we're comparing this guy, to a man who had already spent time in prison specifically for murder.

I don't see this as unreasonable.

Chevie was like the mafia boss, that has all his underlings do the dirty work, so he can avoid getting dirty.

Okay, but that was the point. He committed other crimes, and he was the one who planned the triple murder, and he gets life while the underling gets the hot-shot. Kind of messed up.

Like I said before, my system is the system America used to have. If you were found with horse thieves, you hanged with horse thieves. I'm all for that.

Uh, buddy, we didn't do that in most of the country. Most of the country, people were sent to penitentiaries. In a lot of cases, even if they committed murder, they got less than life.

Of course the death penalty is a deterrent. Murderers put to death, have never murdered a single person yet. Not one single murderer that is put to death under my ideology, or Singapore's system, has ever murdered again.

And most people who didn't get the death penalty never murdered again, that's the point. If anything, it's a deterrent to reform. If I know I'm going to to get executed, I'm probably going to take down as many cops with me as I can.

Third, as far as gun control... have you seen the gun control laws of New York City? They are more restrictive than the gun laws of Singapore. Yet the crime of New York is insane, and the crime in Singapore is not.

And don't give me this whiny "but all the other states!" because Singapore is surrounded by countries with massive gun deaths.

Actually, no Singapore isn't. The only country it borders is Malaysia. They don't have massive gun deaths. In fact, there was one gun Homicide in Malaysia in 2017, the last year we have numbers for.

Guns in Malaysia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Malaysia, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

You wouldn't last a week in Singapore without getting caned for some minor offense.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah... I know. You said "he'll be locked up for the rest of his life"... and here we have a murder who I'm sure some idiot on forum somewhere, said he'd be locked up for the rest of his life too. Gee, he wasn't locked up for the rest of his life, and murdered again.

See, again if it was my way... that dude would have been executed, and we wouldn't be having this conversations.

If he was locked up for the rest of his life, we wouldn't have this conversation. If we didn't have people living on the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation, either.

Well, actually she said just that. Here is her quote.
AOC: NYC Crime Spike Is Probably Because People 'Need To Shoplift Some Bread'

So it wasn't what you presented it as... good to know.

That is the exact kind of deflection and excuse making, that is why you are responsible for the deaths of thousands on thousands of people.

That has nothing to do with this discussion at all. Nothing.

Sure it does. We drop this guy onto the streets with no job prospects into an environment where people are killing each other for a bit of food, and you don't think that's the problem?

If he was locked up for the rest of his life, we wouldn't have this conversation. If we didn't have people living on the street, we wouldn't be having this conversation, either.

Sure we would. If he was locked up and killed a security guard, which happens, I will still be saying you guilty of that guards blood. And would be right.

What if he kills another prisoner? As long as that guy is alive, he can kill. And anyone he kills, is because of you.

Again, all you can say is "IF he was locked up..." and that's my point. IF. You don't know. Because people get released. People escape. You don't know.

I know. Dead people have never killed again. When I say that murderer that is dead, will never kill again... that's not a wishful opinion like yours. That's a fact.

As for the claim that we magically wouldn't have crime, if people were not on the streets... No, that's just idiotic myth. There is zero evidence, that putting a murderer into a house, will make him into a loving caring productive member of society.

So it wasn't what you presented it as... good to know.

Nice to see the mental illness that is left-wing ideology, is alive and well. You can look at a quote that directly confirms exactly what I said, and live in a soviet propaganda world where it doesn't.

Sure it does. We drop this guy onto the streets with no job prospects into an environment where people are killing each other for a bit of food, and you don't think that's the problem?

They are not killing each other for food.
No, not having a job prospect, does not cause a problem, because it's not true.

I can think of dozens of convicted felons that have jobs right off the top of my head. In fact, there is a distant relative that is one. He went to prison for armed robbery, lived in the worst part of town, and when he got out of prison, he learned a trade skills, and now is a pipe fitter.

I know a place (a couple actually), but one specific place where they provide you with job placement, and a place to live, and food. Private charity, and they house dozens of men.

Food, shelter, and job placement for released convicts.

Anyone can get a job. Anyone can. So, bottom line, no. I don't buy that claim.

 

[Andylusion]

So again, we're comparing this guy, to a man who had already spent time in prison specifically for murder.

I don't see this as unreasonable.

Chevie was like the mafia boss, that has all his underlings do the dirty work, so he can avoid getting dirty.

Okay, but that was the point. He committed other crimes, and he was the one who planned the triple murder, and he gets life while the underling gets the hot-shot. Kind of messed up.

Like I said before, my system is the system America used to have. If you were found with horse thieves, you hanged with horse thieves. I'm all for that.

Uh, buddy, we didn't do that in most of the country. Most of the country, people were sent to penitentiaries. In a lot of cases, even if they committed murder, they got less than life.

Of course the death penalty is a deterrent. Murderers put to death, have never murdered a single person yet. Not one single murderer that is put to death under my ideology, or Singapore's system, has ever murdered again.

And most people who didn't get the death penalty never murdered again, that's the point. If anything, it's a deterrent to reform. If I know I'm going to to get executed, I'm probably going to take down as many cops with me as I can.

Third, as far as gun control... have you seen the gun control laws of New York City? They are more restrictive than the gun laws of Singapore. Yet the crime of New York is insane, and the crime in Singapore is not.

And don't give me this whiny "but all the other states!" because Singapore is surrounded by countries with massive gun deaths.

Actually, no Singapore isn't. The only country it borders is Malaysia. They don't have massive gun deaths. In fact, there was one gun Homicide in Malaysia in 2017, the last year we have numbers for.

Guns in Malaysia — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Gun law, gun control statistics, number of guns in Malaysia, gun deaths, firearm facts and policy, armed violence, public health and development

www.gunpolicy.org

You wouldn't last a week in Singapore without getting caned for some minor offense.

Okay, but that was the point. He committed other crimes, and he was the one who planned the triple murder, and he gets life while the underling gets the hot-shot. Kind of messed up.

It's almost like we have one small point of agreement. What I was arguing against is that you made a statement that the justice system was arbitrary, or something to that effect.

It's not arbitrary. It's the law. The law is stupid in this regard, and I would argue needs changed. But judges and juries are not just 'arbitrary'. They are following what the letter of the law says.

The law right now, is that only the person who directly does the deed, gets the heavy penalty. I find that ridiculous, but it's not the justice systems fault, for following the law as it is written. Contact your legislators and push for it to be changed.

The most egregious example I know of, was a video I watched years ago now. It was about a home invasion and robbery, where the two guys didn't know the owner had installed video security in his home.

So these two guys invade the home, both with guns, and both of them walk over and shoot the home owner in the head. One guy gets prison time, and one gets the death penalty.

Why? Well it turns out that they carefully analyzed the video, and discovered the first guy... the guy who first tried to kill the owner, and shot first.... his bullet went low, and ricocheted off the floor. It was the second guy's bullet that actually killed the owner.

To me, that was insane. Both of them should have been executed on the spot, or at least within a year.

In my book, if you hang together, you should hang together.

So yes, I agree it is messed up. I think we somewhat agree on that. I just was arguing that the claim it was arbitrary, no it's not. It's the law. Contact your legislators, and push to have it changed.

Uh, buddy, we didn't do that in most of the country. Most of the country, people were sent to penitentiaries. In a lot of cases, even if they committed murder, they got less than life.

Uh, I don't care. Why would I care about that? If their system that they have, would work here.... then why hasn't it? We've been doing that system for decades. It didn't work.

And most people who didn't get the death penalty never murdered again, that's the point. If anything, it's a deterrent to reform. If I know I'm going to to get executed, I'm probably going to take down as many cops with me as I can.

The Next to Die

Examining executions in the United States.

www.themarshallproject.org

Rodney Berget and Eric Robert, attempt to escape from prison, and get a pipe and plastic wrap. They find a 67 year old prison guard, beat him with the pipe, cover his face with the plastic, and kill him.

Rodney had been in and out of prison his entire life, and was convicted of attempted murder, and was in prison for life now.

Eric Robert, posed as a police officer, forced an 18-year-old women into the trunk of his car, and then fled when he heard her talking to someone on her cell phone. He was sentenced to 80 years.

Both people said the reason they had no problem murdering the elderly 67-year-old guard, was because they both knew they would never get out of prison, so why not? Eric Robert specifically said, he knew he wouldn't live 80 years longer, so a few more years on his sentence meant nothing.

Rodney was executed, thanks to people like me who support the death penalty, and I know he won't kill anyone ever again. Thanks you, Eric Robert is still alive, and we already know he could very well kill again.

To the point:....

If you are telling me that we should not have the Death Penalty, because people knowing they are going to die, are going to try and kill as many people as they can on the way out.....

By your own logic, we shouldn't have long prison sentences or life sentences. By your logic we should release criminals and murderers back into population... because "If I know I'm going to to die in prison, I'm probably going to take down as many cops with me as I can.".

Right? That is effectively what you said. If the penalty is too high, then they'll start killing people. Well life in prison is a high penalty too, and I just proved that prisoners are willing to kill people if they know they'll never get out.

And by the way, left-wingers think this way.

Murderer released after being deemed too old to kill again, kills again

It took a Maine jury less than an hour to find Albert Flick guilty of murdering Kimberly Dobbie with her twin sons nearby in July 2018.

www.nbcnews.com

That was your ideology at work.

You wouldn't last a week in Singapore without getting caned for some minor offense.

Really? Why do you think that? What do you think I'm doing that would get me canned?

The 20 Safest Cities in the World, Ranked

One oft heard bit of advice to departing travelers is: "Travel safe." That can be easier said than done, but if safety is a priority for your travels,

www.smartertravel.com

2nd safest city in the world.

Top 20 Cities for Tourists

Can’t decide where to go next? MasterCard’s annual Global Destination Cities Index shows you which cities are the most popular with tourists.

www.cntraveler.com

4th on the list of top tourist destinations.

What do you think I'd get into trouble for? Obviously I'm going to follow the law, and not talk badly about the government.

Actually, no Singapore isn't. The only country it borders is Malaysia. They don't have massive gun deaths. In fact, there was one gun Homicide in Malaysia in 2017, the last year we have numbers for.

You are correct. I did specifically say "gun deaths". So I was wrong.

Interestingly, that actually somewhat supports my position.

Capital punishment in Malaysia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Assuming the wiki article is correct.... which the only verification I found was that Amnesty International was crying about it....(which is good evidence in my book)....

Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Malaysia. It is a mandatory punishment for murder, drug trafficking, treason, and waging war against Yang di-Pertuan Agong (the King).​

So, not only does Malaysia have the death penalty as well, but it's mandatory. Fascinating.

 

[JoeB131]

Sure we would. If he was locked up and killed a security guard, which happens, I will still be saying you guilty of that guards blood. And would be right.

Why would a 77 year old man kill a security guard? If you are a security guard and a 77 year old man gets the better of you, you really kind of suck at your job.

Really? Why do you think that? What do you think I'm doing that would get me canned?

Just generally being an asshole. You know, you wingnuts whine about FREEDOM when someone asks you to put a fucking mask on so you don't get other people sick, but man, Singapore is a fucking police state.

You are correct. I did specifically say "gun deaths". So I was wrong.

Yes, you were. You keep wanting to emulate these MUSLIMS DICTATORSHIPS, but I doubt you'd want to live in one. Malaysia is a Muslim Dictatorship...

 

[Andylusion]

Sure we would. If he was locked up and killed a security guard, which happens, I will still be saying you guilty of that guards blood. And would be right.

Why would a 77 year old man kill a security guard? If you are a security guard and a 77 year old man gets the better of you, you really kind of suck at your job.

Really? Why do you think that? What do you think I'm doing that would get me canned?

Just generally being an asshole. You know, you wingnuts whine about FREEDOM when someone asks you to put a fucking mask on so you don't get other people sick, but man, Singapore is a fucking police state.

You are correct. I did specifically say "gun deaths". So I was wrong.

Yes, you were. You keep wanting to emulate these MUSLIMS DICTATORSHIPS, but I doubt you'd want to live in one. Malaysia is a Muslim Dictatorship...

Why would a 77 year old man kill a security guard? If you are a security guard and a 77 year old man gets the better of you, you really kind of suck at your job.

Yeah, and if you support murderers being allowed to murder, because you refused to put them to death... then you suck at your job as a citizen to support victims, and oppose criminals.

Just generally being an asshole. You know, you wingnuts whine about FREEDOM when someone asks you to put a fucking mask on so you don't get other people sick, but man, Singapore is a fucking police state.

Pointing out the truth of your position, is not me being an asshole. And trying to compare freedom of wearing or not wearing a mask, to the freedom of a convicted murderer, being allowed to murder again, is not just ridiculous, but it proves to me conclusively that you have already completely lost this argument, and now are just floundering around to save face.

Really? You are want to compare a discussion about murder to wearing a mask?

Further, you said I wouldn't last in Singapore, and now you can't list a reason why.

You know the phrase, when in Rome, do as the Romans? I live in America. Here, I stand for conservative values, that this country was built on. If I moved to Singapore, I would uphold the values Singapore was built on. (because unlike some here, I'm a good person).

I wouldn't be doing things that were illegal. I don't go to other countries, and violate their rules, because "I am a liberal I we believe in free speech!". I don't do that. (again, because unlike some here, I'm a good person).

As for Singapore being a police state, I personally do not see the problem. I really don't. In Singapore they have discussion on policies, but you are not allowed to speak against the government.

I think that's fantastic. I love talking about policies. I don't like "Your guy sucks" "No your guy sucks!". Those discussion do not improve anything anyway. How many hundreds of threads on this forum are only "Trump sucks!" threads? How does that help anything?

And beyond just criticizing the government, what about Singapore is a police state? Nothing. You know how I know that?

Tell me how many real true police states, rank number 2, or even are on the top tourist destination cities in the world? Seriously, how many?

How many true police states, have people immigrating there on a yearly basis? From what I read, Singapore hasn't had a negative net migration since the 1960s.

You remember all those people migrating to East Berlin? Remember how they had so many people trying to get into that police state, they had to build a wall?

No? Yeah, me neither.

You keep wanting to emulate these MUSLIMS DICTATORSHIPS, but I doubt you'd want to live in one. Malaysia is a Muslim Dictatorship...

Not so much Malaysia. But I have actually considered moving to Singapore yes.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, and if you support murderers being allowed to murder, because you refused to put them to death... then you suck at your job as a citizen to support victims, and oppose criminals.

Like I said, guy, I have a solution for ending crime.
Ban guns and end poverty.
Problem. Fucking. Solved. The rest of the world has figured this out, even your beloved Singapore.

Further, you said I wouldn't last in Singapore, and now you can't list a reason why.

Sure, I can. Because you are an asshole who thinks he should be able to do whatever the fuck you want because you are white. That wouldn't play well in Singapore where they are a dictatorship not run by white people.

As for Singapore being a police state, I personally do not see the problem. I really don't. In Singapore they have discussion on policies, but you are not allowed to speak against the government.

Yeah, that is why you probably wouldn't last long.

How many true police states, have people immigrating there on a yearly basis? From what I read, Singapore hasn't had a negative net migration since the 1960s.

Um, that's because it's surrounded by places that are even more poor and miserable.

But you know what, you've convinced me. I think you need to totally pack your bags and move to Singapore. They'll love you there.

 

[Dick Foster]

Daniel Lewis Lee: US executes first federal prisoner in 17 years

Triple murderer Daniel Lewis Lee is executed following a US Supreme Court ruling.

www.bbc.co.uk

US murderer Daniel Lewis Lee has been put to death, hours after the Supreme Court allowed the first executions of federal inmates in 17 years.

Several executions were initially delayed when a judge ruled on Monday that there were still unresolved legal challenges.

The condemned prisoners had argued that lethal injections constitute "cruel and unusual punishments".

But the Supreme Court voted 5-4 that "executions may proceed as planned".

Conflcited on this. Mr Lee is obviously no loss to the community and I suspect he has many friends on this board. But the death penalty belongs i the dark ages.

What does the idea that the late Mr. Lee was white and a supremacist have to do with the crime that he sat in the electric chair for this morning?

Maybe the SS tattoo on his neck is a clue ?

What does an SS tattoo have to do with White Supremacy? The Nazis killed scores of white people, brainlet.

And they still were racists. The KKK lynched white people so I guess they aren't white supremacists either.

The KKK lynched white people for opposing their cause. Once again - the Nazis were ARYAN supremacists, not "white" supremacists. Read a fucking book.

And the NAZI'S lynched many many white people and likely few if any blacks or even brown people. And they usually lynched them with wire instead of rope which inflicted much more pain.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, and if you support murderers being allowed to murder, because you refused to put them to death... then you suck at your job as a citizen to support victims, and oppose criminals.

Like I said, guy, I have a solution for ending crime.
Ban guns and end poverty.
Problem. Fucking. Solved. The rest of the world has figured this out, even your beloved Singapore.

Further, you said I wouldn't last in Singapore, and now you can't list a reason why.

Sure, I can. Because you are an asshole who thinks he should be able to do whatever the fuck you want because you are white. That wouldn't play well in Singapore where they are a dictatorship not run by white people.

As for Singapore being a police state, I personally do not see the problem. I really don't. In Singapore they have discussion on policies, but you are not allowed to speak against the government.

Yeah, that is why you probably wouldn't last long.

How many true police states, have people immigrating there on a yearly basis? From what I read, Singapore hasn't had a negative net migration since the 1960s.

Um, that's because it's surrounded by places that are even more poor and miserable.

But you know what, you've convinced me. I think you need to totally pack your bags and move to Singapore. They'll love you there.

Like I said, guy, I have a solution for ending crime.
Ban guns and end poverty.
Problem. Fucking. Solved. The rest of the world has figured this out, even your beloved Singapore.

Singapore does not have welfare like we do. You don't know what you are talking about.

Banning guns does not end crime, or NYC would be crime free by now.

Your solution, we've tried it, and it has not worked. If the problem was solved with your stupidity, then it would be solved by now.

You are getting people killed.

Sure, I can. Because you are an asshole who thinks he should be able to do whatever the fuck you want because you are white. That wouldn't play well in Singapore where they are a dictatorship not run by white people.

I just outlined how I follow the law. If I was in Singapore, I would follow the laws of Singapore. So, you are just stupid and wrong. Grow up child.

By the way, 26,000 white Americans have moved to Singapore.

Singapore is ranked the best place in the world for expats, and after visiting I can understand why

When I visited Singapore in May, I expected it to be wildy expensive. I found that, while renting an apartment is costly, the city is full of cheap, delicious food, efficient public transportation, top-notch museums, a budding nightlife scene, and beautiful parks.

www.businessinsider.com

Glowing reports. So, facts once again, prove you wrong. I'm getting used to you being wrong, but it's still fun to point out.

Um, that's because it's surrounded by places that are even more poor and miserable.

But you know what, you've convinced me. I think you need to totally pack your bags and move to Singapore. They'll love you there.

Of course they will. They asked me to come there. That's why I was considering it.

Further, areas around them being poor and miserable is not an excuse. People are fleeing Venezuela for countries around them, that are also pretty poor, and miserable. Police states really suck.

And if that was the explanation, then why have tens of thousands of Americans moved to Singapore?

Once again, facts over feelings. Keep going. It's fun shooting down your false claims.