United States and China officials have agreed to take steps to reduce the U.S. trade deficit

[expat_panama]

...
According to the Fed St Louis...

Manufacturing output really is important. This thread is about the growing trade deficit w/ China but imho manufacturing output is more important. Let's look at both together:

It looks like we need to decide if manufacturing is more important than having a growing deficit because they both come together at the same time.

 

[Correll]

I want Trade Policy designed to serve and protect American interests.

I am willing to discuss that seriously and honestly.

Putting tariffs on Chinese imports is not "trading a capitalist economy" for a "Socialistic one".

A tariff is the Govt telling you that they do not want you to buy that product so they will make it more expense so you will not buy it. It is only put on selected products so it is also the Govt picking winners and losers.

I do not feel it is the Govt's job to do either of those things. I did not like it when the Govt tried to tell me what kind of lightbulb to buy and I will not like it when they try and force me to buy a certain brand of washer or TV or car even.

Every action by the Govt means less freedom for you and and the rest of the nation.

America is not suffering from the current system, as I demonstrated with my numbers in the previous post.

Sure. I will do so again.


The macro economic numbers hid the cost, ie the stagnation of the Working Poor and Middle Class.


To the point that it is killing us.


Why the white middle class is dying faster, explained in 6 charts


"In 2015, a blockbuster study came to a surprising conclusion: Middle-aged white Americans are dying younger for the first time in decades, despite positive life expectancy trends in other wealthy countries and other segments of the US population."



"So the rise in mortality for white mid-life people in America since the late 1990s is actually the final stage of a decades-long process. “It’s about the collapse of white middle class,” said Case. Here are the five big takeaways from the researchers’ new opus."



“The cohort that entered the labor market in the ’70s on down, their jobs earnings and prospects are worse. That affected their marriage prospects. Marriages got screwed up. They had children out of wedlock. Their pain levels [are] going up.” All that contributes to the deaths of despair."

There have always been people left behind when the economy shifts. You do not see too many blacksmiths, cartwrights, telephone operators or gas station attendants any more. Those people had to adapt and adjust.

What you are basically wanting is for the Govt to bring down those that have adjusted and moved on to the level of those who cannot or will not do so. Tariffs and a trade war will not rise up those people you bring up, it will just bring more people into the same boat as they are in.

Tariffs cannot reasonably make something from China cost more than something made here without disrupting the whole system and causing even more pain to those in your study.

There are a lot of very good paying jobs in industries that are dying for people, they literally cannot find enough people to hire. I took this into account when I remade myself after my 20 year Marine Corps career and discovered the world of informatics. And now data scientist are one of the industries in need of people, that makes for great job security.

Nurses, PCTs, Techs and a whole host of other medical related fields that require less than 2 years of schooling are all short of people.

Even trucking companies cannot find enough drivers.

Most of the jobs that left are never coming back because while they were gone technology improved enough that those people would not even be needed if they did.

Adapt or get left behind ,that is the way the world works

When so many people have been left so far behind that is it causing the over life span of the nation to decline,


that is too many.


That is a policy that has not worked.


Even the citizens who are doing well, in this new economy, do not desire to do well at the cost of such a large segment of our population being totally destroyed.


Tariffs can certainly bring up the price of Chinese goods without "disrupting the whole system".

 

[Imissbush]

Trump backs down! Another campaign promise broken

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Even the citizens who are doing well, in this new economy, do not desire to do well at the cost of such a large segment of our population being totally destroyed.

If that were true then they would all stop buying anything from China on their own initiative, and not need the Govt forcing them to.

If that were true companies would not have shifted their manufacturing to other countries.

I have not seen much of that going on, have you?

Tariffs can certainly bring up the price of Chinese goods without "disrupting the whole system".

Let's say that we put 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods. That still would probably not make them cost as much as American made, but close.

How do those people you are speaking of deal with the cost of so many things going up by 25% or more?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

...
According to the Fed St Louis...

Manufacturing output really is important. This thread is about the growing trade deficit w/ China but imho manufacturing output is more important. Let's look at both together:

It looks like we need to decide if manufacturing is more important than having a growing deficit because they both come together at the same time.

The trade deficit is a good campaign tool as it gives the politicians an enemy to focus on. Nothing rallies the troops like an evil empire forcing us to buy their cheap shit

 

[Correll]

Even the citizens who are doing well, in this new economy, do not desire to do well at the cost of such a large segment of our population being totally destroyed.

If that were true then they would all stop buying anything from China on their own initiative, and not need the Govt forcing them to.

If that were true companies would not have shifted their manufacturing to other countries.

I have not seen much of that going on, have you?

Nope. Instead they voted for the man promising Trade POlicy to help their fellow Americans.


You seem confused at the concept of Trade Policy.

Tariffs can certainly bring up the price of Chinese goods without "disrupting the whole system".

Let's say that we put 25% tariffs on all Chinese goods. That still would probably not make them cost as much as American made, but close.

How do those people you are speaking of deal with the cost of so many things going up by 25% or more?

Depends.

1. Buy other low cost alternatives.

2. BUy higher cost alternatives.

3. But higher cost Chinese goods, regardless.

4. Do without the purchase.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Nope. Instead they voted for the man promising Trade POlicy to help their fellow Americans.


You seem confused at the concept of Trade Policy.

That sounds about right, instead of doing the right thing people want the Govt to do it for them.

Depends.

1. Buy other low cost alternatives.

2. BUy higher cost alternatives.

3. But higher cost Chinese goods, regardless.

4. Do without the purchase.

And how do these folks you are so worried about benefit from any of the above?

 

[expat_panama]

The trade deficit is a good campaign tool...

It sure is, so long as they don't try to use it as an economic tool we're fine.

Something I'm curious about is whether folks in the current administration actually believe what they're saying about the 'trade deficit' or are they just playing to the crowd. Generally I'm happy w/ the results (we're still in NAFTA, TPP is still in development, a trade war in the headlines but not in real life), but the rhetoric is always too much on the goofy side.

This may be the only way they can get things done tho...

 

[Correll]

Nope. Instead they voted for the man promising Trade POlicy to help their fellow Americans.


You seem confused at the concept of Trade Policy.

That sounds about right, instead of doing the right thing people want the Govt to do it for them.

Your spin is noted and dismissed.

Depends.

1. Buy other low cost alternatives.

2. BUy higher cost alternatives.

3. But higher cost Chinese goods, regardless.

4. Do without the purchase.

And how do these folks you are so worried about benefit from any of the above?[/QUOTE]



They benefit from at least slowing the pace of outsourcing and loss of manufacturing jobs.


If the higher cost, and it might not be much higher, alternative is American, all the better as jobs could start INCREASING.


I have heard of local manufactures getting flooded with inquires from foreign businesses who were looking for US manufacturers to make their shit, to avoid potential tariffs.


Local manufactures looking at more work then they can handle.


JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.

 

[candycorn]

I have to wonder if N. Korea and China decided to play Trump's game for the next 6 months. I know this concept is way too abstract for most Republican Supporters here to understand, but I wouldn't be surprised to see XI and KIM try to manipulate our election, and keep chaos alive.

Please elaborate on this idea, I don't know how they can manipulate any more than so many other countries tried in 2016. Far too many have been exploiting America, Trumps victory should be celebrated as it proved the global socialists can't ruin America.

Do your part, please. These Communist sob's from China cannot be allowed to become the sole Super Power.

Globalism always wins. If there is a cheaper, better widget being sold somewhere else, those who want the widget will find a way to acquire it. Putting up barriers may work short-term but eventually, they do more harm than good.

I agree. However, the theft of intellectual property is a serious problems which every nation state needs to eliminate, by criminalizing the act by the private sector. and making restitution to the owner of the patent or copywrite ; If the nation itself engages in such activities sanctions against that state are appropriate and any tariff placed on that piracy needs to be high and given to the owner of the intellectual property.

Domestic wholesalers and retailers who engage in the distribution or sale of said property ought to be fined, and pay restitution too.

Agreed.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Nope. Instead they voted for the man promising Trade POlicy to help their fellow Americans.


You seem confused at the concept of Trade Policy.

That sounds about right, instead of doing the right thing people want the Govt to do it for them.

Your spin is noted and dismissed.

Depends.

1. Buy other low cost alternatives.

2. BUy higher cost alternatives.

3. But higher cost Chinese goods, regardless.

4. Do without the purchase.

And how do these folks you are so worried about benefit from any of the above?

They benefit from at least slowing the pace of outsourcing and loss of manufacturing jobs.


If the higher cost, and it might not be much higher, alternative is American, all the better as jobs could start INCREASING.


I have heard of local manufactures getting flooded with inquires from foreign businesses who were looking for US manufacturers to make their shit, to avoid potential tariffs.


Local manufactures looking at more work then they can handle.


JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.[/QUOTE]

We do not have enough people to fill the jobs that are there now, where are these employees going to come from?

 

[Correll]

Nope. Instead they voted for the man promising Trade POlicy to help their fellow Americans.


You seem confused at the concept of Trade Policy.

That sounds about right, instead of doing the right thing people want the Govt to do it for them.

Your spin is noted and dismissed.

Depends.

1. Buy other low cost alternatives.

2. BUy higher cost alternatives.

3. But higher cost Chinese goods, regardless.

4. Do without the purchase.

And how do these folks you are so worried about benefit from any of the above?

They benefit from at least slowing the pace of outsourcing and loss of manufacturing jobs.


If the higher cost, and it might not be much higher, alternative is American, all the better as jobs could start INCREASING.


I have heard of local manufactures getting flooded with inquires from foreign businesses who were looking for US manufacturers to make their shit, to avoid potential tariffs.


Local manufactures looking at more work then they can handle.


JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.

We do not have enough people to fill the jobs that are there now, where are these employees going to come from?[/QUOTE]


Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

My suggestion to you is that you do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Especially considering it was wages that was the driving force for companies to leave this country in the first place. It is hard to compete with people making $10 a day when you have to pay your people $30 an hour.

 

[Correll]

Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

My suggestion to you is that you do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Especially considering it was wages that was the driving force for companies to leave this country in the first place. It is hard to compete with people making $10 a day when you have to pay your people $30 an hour.

Seems like a level playing field, (if it even that good) between the First World and the Third World is not a good thing for First World workers.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

My suggestion to you is that you do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Especially considering it was wages that was the driving force for companies to leave this country in the first place. It is hard to compete with people making $10 a day when you have to pay your people $30 an hour.

Seems like a level playing field, (if it even that good) between the First World and the Third World is not a good thing for First World workers.

The only way to level the playing field is to drop the 1st world workers down to the level of the rest...is that your desire?

 

[Correll]

Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

My suggestion to you is that you do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Especially considering it was wages that was the driving force for companies to leave this country in the first place. It is hard to compete with people making $10 a day when you have to pay your people $30 an hour.

Seems like a level playing field, (if it even that good) between the First World and the Third World is not a good thing for First World workers.

The only way to level the playing field is to drop the 1st world workers down to the level of the rest...is that your desire?

I stated that a level playing field does not seem like a good idea.


And your response is to ask me how I want to level the playing field?


TRY AGAIN.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Higher wages will increase labor participation.


And if not, once wages rise to where they would have been projected in the absence of globalization,


at that point, I will be willing to discuss alternatives.

My suggestion to you is that you do not hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

Especially considering it was wages that was the driving force for companies to leave this country in the first place. It is hard to compete with people making $10 a day when you have to pay your people $30 an hour.

Seems like a level playing field, (if it even that good) between the First World and the Third World is not a good thing for First World workers.

The only way to level the playing field is to drop the 1st world workers down to the level of the rest...is that your desire?

I stated that a level playing field does not seem like a good idea.


And your response is to ask me how I want to level the playing field?


TRY AGAIN.

Sorry, I miss read your post.

So, if not a level playing field what you want then is for the Govt to artificially prop up favored industries?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Harpy Eagle]

They benefit from at least slowing the pace of outsourcing and loss of manufacturing jobs.


If the higher cost, and it might not be much higher, alternative is American, all the better as jobs could start INCREASING.


I have heard of local manufactures getting flooded with inquires from foreign businesses who were looking for US manufacturers to make their shit, to avoid potential tariffs.


Local manufactures looking at more work then they can handle.


JOBS. JOBS. JOBS.

So, based upon Trump's latest tweet on the subject, it seems most of our trade deficit with China will be offset by them buying more Ag products.

How does this help the industry you are so worried about?

How does this make our manufacturing sector more competitive with China and the rest of the world?

 

[Jessica123]

If Trump is successful I'll praise the guy for fixing a real problem.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If Trump is successful I'll praise the guy for fixing a real problem.

Why is it a "real" problem?

What damage does having a trade deficit with another country cause?