Unions: Is this time and money well spent?

[Windship]

Unions are victims of their own success. Virtually everything they campaigned for, such as the 40 hour work week, overtime pay, safety regulations, etc, have been put into law. Unfortunately, they act like it's still 1934. That's why they are increasingly being seen as useless, behind the times, and an arm of the DNC. They need to adapt and deal with the world the way it is today. Focus on making the Union Label mean superior quality and not just higher costs, for example, would go a long way.

Unions are seen that way now because of right wing propaganda and that propaganda is in place to increace corporate profits and has worked suberbly because of ignorance. Convince a blue collar worker that unions are bad.....wow. "Right to work state" = place where you get payed and treated like shit.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

how very necessary and beneficial unions are,

yes very very necessary to ship 30 million US jobs off-shore and much of our manufacturing base. Why don't you think before you post Mike?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Unions are seen that way now because of right wing propaganda

dear, do you ever read the papers?? Its not propaganda that idiotic liberal unions shippped 30 million US jobs off shore plus much or our manufacturing base. Hello???

 

[Windship]

The bottom line of any pro-union vs anti-union discussion is, while unions are far from perfect entities, ultimately they are extremely beneficial for workers. The Union Movement was a critical factor in the rise of the American Middle Class. Without it the U.S. would still be a two-class society consisting of the rich and the obedient, groveling poor, working long, hard hours just to maintain a low living standard.

Opponents of unions are typically too young to remember what America was like before the union movement and how dramatically it changed the quality of life for the working class. It is very rare to hear a mature American speak against unions.

Those who are receptive to anti-union propaganda need to be reminded that were it not for unions there would be no 40-hour work week, no paid vacations, no worker safety standards, no minimum wage, no worker protections of any kind,

The following movies are educational, entertaining -- and important.


Harlan County USA
Norma Rae
The Molly McGuires
On The Waterfront
Metewan
Hoffa

Here, here!

And now it seems that the opponents of unions want to return to those days of dangerous hard labor and dirt for pay.
A lot of ppl do not understand what makes a strong economy.
Thank you for your post. So very true!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And now it seems that the opponents of unions want to return to those days of dangerous hard labor and dirt for pay.
A lot of ppl do not understand what makes a strong economy.
!

total liberal illiteracy!! Under capitalism you have to provide the best products and jobs in the world or you go bankrupt!! Isn't learning your ABC's fun.

 

[Windship]

Unions are seen that way now because of right wing propaganda

dear, do you ever read the papers?? Its not propaganda that idiotic liberal unions shippped 30 million US jobs off shore plus much or our manufacturing base. Hello???

really! Which liberal did that?
Do you know what the largest problem in our country is?
It is ppl that do no research but just beleive that the other side does all bad and their side does nothing but good. Its ok if MY guy does it but your uy better not do it.
If my guy does it then its ok cause its MY guy.
Your comment is so ridiculously stupid.
So...which liberal did this?

 

[Andylusion]

[...]

and then you ask why people are outsourcing? Dude... look in the mirror! There's the reason right there.

The reason why businesses are outsourcing is elimination of government regulations which once prevented this kind of economic treachery.

This removal of profitable enterprises from the Nation which gave them life and enabled their growth should not be allowed. And it can be prevented by imposing a substantial exit tax on expatriating corporations and by imposing substantial import tariffs on any products they wish to sell to the world's biggest market.

Oh good night....

Dude, name one country in which massive protectionist taxes was a net benefit.

You can't. It's never worked. How many dozens of countries tried that? Japan.... Fail. India? Fail. China? Fail. Jamaica? Fail. Argentina? Fail. Venezuela? Fail.

What was the primary policy going into the Great Depression? Smoot-Hawley Protectionism. And it didn't go away until when? The 1950s... you know... that economic depression caused by free-trade in the 1950s.

Protectionism has always.... ALWAYS... harmed economic growth. There is no example of protectionism being a benefit.

And millions of jobs exist in our country because of free-trade, including mine.

 

[Windship]

And now it seems that the opponents of unions want to return to those days of dangerous hard labor and dirt for pay.
A lot of ppl do not understand what makes a strong economy.
!

total liberal illiteracy!! Under capitalism you have to provide the best products and jobs in the world or you go bankrupt!! Isn't learning your ABC's fun.

Realy??
So all of that stuff coming from china really is quality goods?
Capitolism has morphed into nothing more than make profit and nothing else matters. THATS modern capitolism
And what if the only wrench you can buy is made in china and its junk? If its the only one available then that is what you have to buy.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So...which liberal did this?

dear I didn't say that "a liberal did it" I said that idiotic liberal unions shipped 30 million US jobs off shore plus much of our manufacturing base. Do you understand now?

Also, if you don't think liberalism is based in pure ignorance please give us your most substantive example. Thanks

 

[Andylusion]

[...]

You confusing actions, and results. No Union openly tries to eliminate itself. Of course.

But by the fact they make themselves uncompetitive, they kill their own jobs.

Again, GM and Chrysler declared bankruptcy. Honda and Toyota did not. Which were unionized?

The only reason Ford didn't go bankruptcy, is because Ford, pushed for and got, concession from the Unions, back in 2006. You can go read about it.

The status of American labor unions is not a black or white issue. As I've previously mentioned, unions are not perfect. Some are moderately defective others have become as corrupted as the U.S. Government obviously is. And in both examples the causes of the defects and the corruption are the same -- failed democracy.

Unions are democratic organizations. Their membership votes and their leaders are elected. The reason we end up with Presidents like Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama is a lazy, careless, ignorant electorate, which is why unions like the UAW go bad.

While your hostile position clearly is to toss the baby out with the bath-water, I submit it is critically important for the future of the American Middle Class to become educated about the union movement and for them to either support or to actively participate in it.

Oh bull crap. Democracy doesn't FORCE me to join something I don't wish to join. If you have to coerce me into joining your little group, then spare me the 'it's a democratic organization'.

And yes, I am hostile to your Union crap. When your little Union stooges came around Columbus Cadillac, I collected as many as of his pamphlets as he would give me, and promptly tossed them all in the trash as soon as he walked out the door. Doesn't matter much. The mechanics working there were more hostile to him, than I was.

Listen, you want to be unionized, and destroy your jobs, I'm all for it. Blow your feet off with as much shot as you wish. We've seen the results of Unionization. You destroy your members jobs repeatedly. Go for it. Knock yourself out.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Capitolism has morphed into nothing more than make profit and nothing else matters. THATS modern capitolism

of course thats very very stupid and liberal. The only way you make profit under a capitalist system is to provide the best products and jobs in the world. Can your Dad explain it to you. Perhaps he's not a liberal?

 

[Windship]

[...]

and then you ask why people are outsourcing? Dude... look in the mirror! There's the reason right there.

The reason why businesses are outsourcing is elimination of government regulations which once prevented this kind of economic treachery.

This removal of profitable enterprises from the Nation which gave them life and enabled their growth should not be allowed. And it can be prevented by imposing a substantial exit tax on expatriating corporations and by imposing substantial import tariffs on any products they wish to sell to the world's biggest market.

Oh good night....

Dude, name one country in which massive protectionist taxes was a net benefit.

You can't. It's never worked. How many dozens of countries tried that? Japan.... Fail. India? Fail. China? Fail. Jamaica? Fail. Argentina? Fail. Venezuela? Fail.

What was the primary policy going into the Great Depression? Smoot-Hawley Protectionism. And it didn't go away until when? The 1950s... you know... that economic depression caused by free-trade in the 1950s.

Protectionism has always.... ALWAYS... harmed economic growth. There is no example of protectionism being a benefit.

And millions of jobs exist in our country because of free-trade, including mine.

First of all, the companies did not go away because of taxes. Thats laughable but commonly believed.
The companies left because of cheap labor, no epa AND no taxes. Corporations, to begin with, PAY NO TAXES BECAUSE THEY GET ENOUGH TAX RIGHT OFFS TO CLAIM "0"!!!
They leave because of cheap labor and we get cheap junk from other countries and job loss and all that goes with it here.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And what if the only wrench you can buy is made in china and its junk? If its the only one available then that is what you have to buy.

total liberal illiteracy as usual. Thanks to capitalism such a situation would immediately produce numerous competitors. Under liberalism this would not happen. Easy enough?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

First of all, the companies did not go away because of taxes. Thats laughable but commonly believed.

stupid stupid stupid and liberal !!! Ireland dropped its rate to 12% and most of the major corporations in the world relocated there in whole or in part! What planet is this liberal from??

 

[Windship]

Capitolism has morphed into nothing more than make profit and nothing else matters. THATS modern capitolism

of course thats very very stupid and liberal. The only way you make profit under a capitalist system is to provide the best products and jobs in the world. Can your Dad explain it to you. Perhaps he's not a liberal?

Lol. Your pretty stupid now arent you?

 

[Andylusion]

So, according to you, only union jobs were outsourced.

Dear, I didn't say only union jobs were outsourced. I said liberal unions outsourced 30 million jobs and much or our manufacturing base and that unions should be made illegal again.

Common sense will tell you that if BWM can make their cars here paying workers $15 and hour or in Germany paying workers $67 an hour their biggest production facility will be here.

Simple but still over a liberals head- right?

This makes even less sense. A liberal union outsourced 30 million jobs? Any links?

dear why do you think BMW just built its largest plant in the world in South Carolina rather than Detroit?

Cheap labor, but I'll bet BMW in Germany is union. There's no solidarity among workers. The ownership class hasn't got it all yet, give them time and maybe the workers will say "enough is enough". Right now, workers are happy to work for any wages knowing that they're in competition with the world, including low wage countries. This is the meaning of globalization. Unlimited supply of cheap labor to skew the traditional supply and demand ratio of workers to jobs.

It is Union. German Union are completely different from American Unions. German Unions are pro-corporate. Pro-businesss. Pro-profit.

German Unions actually try to benefit the company, and increase employment and growth.

For example, German Unions actually support, and encourage outsourcing, and the use of Temp Employees. They actually want the company to remain competitive, and are willing to use cheaper labor to do it.

German Unions are willing to accept people earning low wages, when it's a low skill job, so the that company can remain profitable and growing in a competitive world environment.

American Unions are opposed to that, which is why again... which declared bankruptcy? Toyota or VW America? Or GM and Chrysler? American VW plants are not Unionized by UAW. In fact..... UAW met with the German Unions, and when the German Unions realized what they stood for, they cut off talks. The VW plant employees voted down Unionization. What shock. The works don't want to end up like Hostess, where the new Employer, after the Hostess Union killed the company, refuses to even accept application from former Union employees. Well done idiots. Screwed them over completely.

 

[Windship]

And what if the only wrench you can buy is made in china and its junk? If its the only one available then that is what you have to buy.

total liberal illiteracy as usual. Thanks to capitalism such a situation would immediately produce numerous competitors. Under liberalism this would not happen. Easy enough?

Lol. Under modern
capitolism you would make next to nothing and have to work 60 hrs + a week.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

we get cheap junk from other countries.

Consumer Reports has demonstrated for decades that Japanese cars, for example, are superior to American made cars. If the scientific data Consumers Reports was using was fraudulent Detroit could sue them for $billions. See why we say a liberal will be slow?

 

[Windship]

So, according to you, only union jobs were outsourced.

Dear, I didn't say only union jobs were outsourced. I said liberal unions outsourced 30 million jobs and much or our manufacturing base and that unions should be made illegal again.

Common sense will tell you that if BWM can make their cars here paying workers $15 and hour or in Germany paying workers $67 an hour their biggest production facility will be here.

Simple but still over a liberals head- right?

This makes even less sense. A liberal union outsourced 30 million jobs? Any links?

dear why do you think BMW just built its largest plant in the world in South Carolina rather than Detroit?

Cheap labor, but I'll bet BMW in Germany is union. There's no solidarity among workers. The ownership class hasn't got it all yet, give them time and maybe the workers will say "enough is enough". Right now, workers are happy to work for any wages knowing that they're in competition with the world, including low wage countries. This is the meaning of globalization. Unlimited supply of cheap labor to skew the traditional supply and demand ratio of workers to jobs.

It is Union. German Union are completely different from American Unions. German Unions are pro-corporate. Pro-businesss. Pro-profit.

German Unions actually try to benefit the company, and increase employment and growth.

For example, German Unions actually support, and encourage outsourcing, and the use of Temp Employees. They actually want the company to remain competitive, and are willing to use cheaper labor to do it.

German Unions are willing to accept people earning low wages, when it's a low skill job, so the that company can remain profitable and growing in a competitive world environment.

American Unions are opposed to that, which is why again... which declared bankruptcy? Toyota or VW America? Or GM and Chrysler? American VW plants are not Unionized by UAW. In fact..... UAW met with the German Unions, and when the German Unions realized what they stood for, they cut off talks. The VW plant employees voted down Unionization. What shock. The works don't want to end up like Hostess, where the new Employer, after the Hostess Union killed the company, refuses to even accept application from former Union employees. Well done idiots. Screwed them over completely.

hmmmm...ith no mention of the companies that do quite well with a union shop. A little bias there?

 

[Andylusion]

And now it seems that the opponents of unions want to return to those days of dangerous hard labor and dirt for pay.
A lot of ppl do not understand what makes a strong economy.
!

total liberal illiteracy!! Under capitalism you have to provide the best products and jobs in the world or you go bankrupt!! Isn't learning your ABC's fun.

Realy??
So all of that stuff coming from china really is quality goods?
Capitolism has morphed into nothing more than make profit and nothing else matters. THATS modern capitolism
And what if the only wrench you can buy is made in china and its junk? If its the only one available then that is what you have to buy.

Dude, if you want to buy that $50 wrench made in the USA, instead of that $9 wrench made from China, by all means knock yourself out.

Who are you to tell me that I'm not allowed to buy a decent wrench for a fraction of the price? What is this? Only you elitists with money are allowed to have products now?