Unemployment rate to 8.8%

[8537]

OK let's take a look at the rising numbers of NEW food stamp recievers. With those numbers it makes your argument flawed.

Food stamp receipients have nothing to do with UE calculations. There's no direct relation between the two.

Really you are a true moron. You even said people ran out of unemployment benefits. What is the next step people take when they have no more money or limited money? FOOD STAMPS STUPID. You need to redefine your options, you're failing to impress me.

The Food Stamp program was extended to higher income limits last year - hence, more people on food stamps regardless of the jobs situation.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Food stamp receipients have nothing to do with UE calculations. There's no direct relation between the two.

Really you are a true moron. You even said people ran out of unemployment benefits. What is the next step people take when they have no more money or limited money? FOOD STAMPS STUPID. You need to redefine your options, you're failing to impress me.

The Food Stamp program was extended to higher income limits last year - hence, more people on food stamps regardless of the jobs situation.

OMG you actually think that is the reason? Food stamps have a stigma with them people don't decided because the limits have been raised to go place them on the system. Americans are to prideful to do that. They would only do it as a last resort.
OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

 

[8537]

OMG you actually think that is the reason?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.

Food stamps have a stigma with them people don't decided because the limits have been raised to go place them on the system. Americans are to prideful to do that. They would only do it as a last resort.

Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.

OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OMG you actually think that is the reason?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.

Food stamps have a stigma with them people don't decided because the limits have been raised to go place them on the system. Americans are to prideful to do that. They would only do it as a last resort.

Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.

OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.

Then you don't have a concept of what an American is. You do not understand it. AMERICANS WILL NOT JUMP ON THE GOVERNMENT WAGON BECAUSE THEY RAISED THE BENEFITS

and this is relevant because...why, exactly

It's relevant because it did not effect single people. It takes more for a family to live than it does with a single person.

 

[boedicca]

You are wrong, but you do get 10 Points For Consistency.

The BLS provides the stats that an intelligent person can use to connect the dots.

Labor Force participation declines are not a good economic indicator. People have given up looking for jobs because the economy is not creating enough of them.

That, in a nutshell, is the effect of Obamanomics Big Government Borrow from the Future to pay for Current Consumption policies (on top of decades of equally misguided Big Government agendas enacted by both parties).

What am I wrong about, Boed?

That the BLS determines employment based on a survey?

So when somebody tells us that they are "counting" numbers you KNOW they do not understand where these STATS are coming from.

The government doesw NOT keep track of new hires or recent fires.

That is NOT where the unemployment numbers are coming from.

They come from surveys where BLS pollsters ASK people if they're unemployed and looking for work.

You do know that, right?

If not look it up.

You persistently adhere to the misguided concept that people no longer being counted is an improvement in employment.

It's not.

 

[Immanuel]

OMG you actually think that is the reason?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.

Food stamps have a stigma with them people don't decided because the limits have been raised to go place them on the system. Americans are to prideful to do that. They would only do it as a last resort.

Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.

OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

Actually, if you spend anytime in a supermarket in a part of town where there are many people receiving food stamps, you can easily tell those who do if you just look at the "debit card" they are using. It has the picture of an American Flag waving in sort of a shadowed look to it. At least that is how they look here.

I used to work in a... well, lets just say not to pleasant of a neighborhood. There was a grocery store next door that I spent quite a bit of time in picking up snacks. You could not help but notice that everyone in front of you used the same exact card day in and day out. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who is using food stamps and who isn't.

Immie

 

[bigrebnc1775]

OMG you actually think that is the reason?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.



Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.

OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

Actually, if you spend anytime in a supermarket in a part of town where there are many people receiving food stamps, you can easily tell those who do if you just look at the "debit card" they are using. It has the picture of an American Flag waving in sort of a shadowed look to it. At least that is how they look here.

I used to work in a... well, lets just say not to pleasant of a neighborhood. There was a grocery store next door that I spent quite a bit of time in picking up snacks. You could not help but notice that everyone in front of you used the same exact card day in and day out. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who is using food stamps and who isn't.
Immie

Exactly

 

[8537]

Then you don't have a concept of what an American is. You do not understand it. AMERICANS WILL NOT JUMP ON THE GOVERNMENT WAGON BECAUSE THEY RAISED THE BENEFITS

Well, Bigreb, you're just wrong. As soon as the income level was increased, the number of people applying for food stamps increased dramatically. They "jumped on the government wagon" as you put it - and that's in a state with a low and declining unemployment rate.

It's relevant because it did not effect single people. It takes more for a family to live than it does with a single person.

So, it did effect millions of people? We agree on that. Good.

 

[8537]

OMG you actually think that is the reason?

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.



Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.

OH and the limit was changed for FAMILIES not single people.

and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

Actually, if you spend anytime in a supermarket in a part of town where there are many people receiving food stamps, you can easily tell those who do if you just look at the "debit card" they are using. It has the picture of an American Flag waving in sort of a shadowed look to it. At least that is how they look here.

I used to work in a... well, lets just say not to pleasant of a neighborhood. There was a grocery store next door that I spent quite a bit of time in picking up snacks. You could not help but notice that everyone in front of you used the same exact card day in and day out. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who is using food stamps and who isn't.

Immie

Our state's are not quite so noticeable, but at any rate - I'm sure if you're working in a store or paying attention, you can tell. But at least in my area most people just aren't paying attention.

of course, I don't think it really matters either way. unlike Bigreb, I think people are willing to put up with the stereotype in order to receive the benefit - and therefore, when the income level was increased we would expect the rate of use to increase.

And when the income level was increased, what happened? The rate of use increased. Just like when they extend unemployment benefits, more people collect unemployment.

 

[Immanuel]

Yes, I do. When they increased the income limits, more people participated in the program.



Welcome to 1970! people using food stamps are no longer using actual books of coupons. In almost every state, it's a simple debit card and you can't really tell the difference between it and a regular bank card.

in our state, the rule change led to about a 30% increase in the number of people applying for benefits.


and this is relevant because...why, exactly?

Actually, if you spend anytime in a supermarket in a part of town where there are many people receiving food stamps, you can easily tell those who do if you just look at the "debit card" they are using. It has the picture of an American Flag waving in sort of a shadowed look to it. At least that is how they look here.

I used to work in a... well, lets just say not to pleasant of a neighborhood. There was a grocery store next door that I spent quite a bit of time in picking up snacks. You could not help but notice that everyone in front of you used the same exact card day in and day out. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who is using food stamps and who isn't.

Immie

Our state's are not quite so noticeable, but at any rate - I'm sure if you're working in a store or paying attention, you can tell. But at least in my area most people just aren't paying attention.

of course, I don't think it really matters either way. unlike Bigreb, I think people are willing to put up with the stereotype in order to receive the benefit - and therefore, when the income level was increased we would expect the rate of use to increase.

And when the income level was increased, what happened? The rate of use increased. Just like when they extend unemployment benefits, more people collect unemployment.

I do very much agree with you that people will use it if they can. Those who are struggling with their finances who suddenly see the laws change and now they qualify are going to jump at the chance to sign up as soon as they can.

As for noticing it, I think you would need to spend time in a grocery store in a poorer part of town where so many people were on food stamps. In a middle or upper class neighborhood, those cards would be no more noticeable than a Bank of America Debit Card, but in a poorer neighborhood where everyone uses the same card, it becomes quite noticeable. Either that or one particular bank had done a hell of a good job of marketing in the area that I worked at.

Immie

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Then you don't have a concept of what an American is. You do not understand it. AMERICANS WILL NOT JUMP ON THE GOVERNMENT WAGON BECAUSE THEY RAISED THE BENEFITS

Well, Bigreb, you're just wrong. As soon as the income level was increased, the number of people applying for food stamps increased dramatically. They "jumped on the government wagon" as you put it - and that's in a state with a low and declining unemployment rate.

It's relevant because it did not effect single people. It takes more for a family to live than it does with a single person.

So, it did effect millions of people? We agree on that. Good.

So, it did effect millions of people? We agree on that.

No we don't

Well, Bigreb, you're just wrong.

It's amazing how you will take certain polls and accept them as the gospel.

As soon as the income level was increased, the number of people applying for food stamps increased dramatically.

I have shown my sources now it's your turn.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Taxes EBT card Food Stamps

 

[pinqy]

The government doesw NOT keep track of new hires or recent fires.

Actually, they do. It's the Job Openings Labor Turnover Survey It's a two month delay, though....in April the February data will be released.

That is NOT where the unemployment numbers are coming from.

That part is true. I'm always amazed at the number of people who think there's an actual count and individuals are moved from one category to another every month.

They come from surveys where BLS pollsters ASK people if they're unemployed and looking for work.

The Census Bureau does the survey for BLS.

 

[pinqy]

OK let's take a look at the rising numbers of NEW food stamp recievers. With those numbers it makes your argument flawed.

Food stamp receipients have nothing to do with UE calculations. There's no direct relation between the two.

Really you are a true moron. You even said people ran out of unemployment benefits. What is the next step people take when they have no more money or limited money? FOOD STAMPS STUPID. You need to redefine your options, you're failing to impress me.

I said no DIRECT relation. You cannot tell from looking at food stamp receipients how many people are unemployed or vice versa. Many, many people who have jobs receive food stamps. There are also many in the military who recieve food stamps, but they are excluded from the employment/unemployment data.

At best you can see the general trend, but mostly it's useless. Nobody working with labor market stats looks at food stamps except if they specifically want to look at food stamp receipients in particular or to judge income effects. NOBODY uses food stamp receipients to determine unemployment.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The government doesw NOT keep track of new hires or recent fires.

Actually, they do. It's the Job Openings Labor Turnover Survey It's a two month delay, though....in April the February data will be released.

That is NOT where the unemployment numbers are coming from.

That part is true. I'm always amazed at the number of people who think there's an actual count and individuals are moved from one category to another every month.

They come from surveys where BLS pollsters ASK people if they're unemployed and looking for work.

The Census Bureau does the survey for BLS.

That is NOT where the unemployment numbers are coming from.

That part is true. I'm always amazed at the number of people who think there's an actual count and individuals are moved from one category to another every month.

They come from surveys where BLS pollsters ASK people if they're unemployed and looking for work.

The Census Bureau does the survey for BLS

They could by all calculation call only homes that everybody was working and according to that idea nobody in America would be unemployed.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Food stamp receipients have nothing to do with UE calculations. There's no direct relation between the two.

Really you are a true moron. You even said people ran out of unemployment benefits. What is the next step people take when they have no more money or limited money? FOOD STAMPS STUPID. You need to redefine your options, you're failing to impress me.

I said no DIRECT relation. You cannot tell from looking at food stamp receipients how many people are unemployed or vice versa. Many, many people who have jobs receive food stamps. There are also many in the military who recieve food stamps, but they are excluded from the employment/unemployment data.

At best you can see the general trend, but mostly it's useless. Nobody working with labor market stats looks at food stamps except if they specifically want to look at food stamp receipients in particular or to judge income effects. NOBODY uses food stamp receipients to determine unemployment.

It's a factor in the equation

 

[pinqy]

You persistently adhere to the misguided concept that people no longer being counted is an improvement in employment.

It's not.

What he was trying to say is that no one is "counted." No one is "no longer counted," people are asked in the survey what their current status is, and they in turn represent hundreds of others to compile the national figures.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You persistently adhere to the misguided concept that people no longer being counted is an improvement in employment.

It's not.

What he was trying to say is that no one is "counted." No one is "no longer counted," people are asked in the survey what their current status is, and they in turn represent hundreds of others to compile the national figures.

Whats to keep them from lying?

 

[william the wie]

The UE numbers cannot be made to conform to reality because:

The sampling method outdates too quickly.

There is no definition of UE that is going to capture distress.

Being a sample (UE) based on a sample (labor force participation) of a sample (potential labor force) of an actual count the census. Read the various complaints about the census, many of which are valid because even the census misses or doublecounts people, definitely in the 100s of thousands and low millions being likely. Since the careers of politicians ride on that number they try to get it right and do whatever is possible to get the error rate below 1% but probably 1-4 seats in the house of representatives are misapportioned each and every census. Just for s&gs assume that the error rate is low say 0.25% (some of the links are known to have higher error rates) by the time you get to UE you are at +/-1%

Those problems are not going to be solved.

 

[pinqy]

You persistently adhere to the misguided concept that people no longer being counted is an improvement in employment.

It's not.

What he was trying to say is that no one is "counted." No one is "no longer counted," people are asked in the survey what their current status is, and they in turn represent hundreds of others to compile the national figures.

Whats to keep them from lying?

Nothing. But there's no reason for them to lie either. It's not really an issue. Why do you think it would be?