Understanding "Replacement Theory"....It's A Fact

[Curried Goats]

Perhaps, but Democrats tend to dismiss the facts that lessen Floyd's innocence. He was not exactly a model citizen. Also, Democrats tended to dismiss the complicating factors like Floyd's drug overdose effects that he was suffering even before the knee was placed on him. They also tend to dismiss the hostile crowd reaction that kept emergency services from reaching Floyd in a timely manner and which caused the police to act defensively.

In short, racial tension isn't a one way street. Bad behavior is common among police, suspects, and protesters.

To me, the big picture is looking at who benefits most from the working class fighting amongst itself over things like race, sex, orientation, and gender identity.

None of those complicating factors should have resulted in Floyd's death. Nor do they account for the disproportionate amounts of force Minneapolis police officers routinely used against black residents as per the report. You don't think that contributes to agitated citizens?

 

[Uriel]

Was he? I mean some times he talked like a pragmatist, and sometime like an abolitionist radical.


It is worth noting that his words conflicted, but he ACTIONS were that he wages a bloody war against the South and just happened to find a "pragmatic" reason to free the slaves.


IMO, the real Lincoln was the radical abolitionist.

I would argue the only thing radical about his approach was how he handled Reconstruction. I believe his approach was somewhat necessary to protect the rights of blacks, but in doing so, many whites were angered. After his assassination, Andrew Johnson took a moderate approach, but the end result was that Jim Crow eventually happened.

To put it bluntly, as soon as things escalated at Fort Sumter, war was inevitable. I don't blame that solely on Lincoln. It's quite possible that Davis and Lincoln could have de-escalated things through diplomacy, but obviously, that didn't happen.

 

[Curried Goats]

It's a simple sentiment. From a simple child.


LIke I said, the better men that actually won that war, saw it differently and were happy to forgive and forget.

For a pussy like you to talk tough generations after someone else paid the price to win teh war,


is you being the world's big pussy.






You are talking shit about a war that was over before your grandfather was born. That is you have a fag hissy fit. .





And you are still lying. Because you are a cowardly pussy.

You can't escape the fact of this simple statement you deplorable mutant.

If you were a decent human being you'd be rooting for the slaves to rise up and slaughter the slavers.

 

[Curried Goats]

I would argue the only thing radical about his approach was how he handled Reconstruction. I believe his approach was somewhat necessary to protect the rights of blacks, but in doing so, many whites were angered. After his assassination, Andrew Johnson took a moderate approach, but the end result was that Jim Crow eventually happened.

To put it bluntly, as soon as things escalated at Fort Sumter, war was inevitable. I don't blame that solely on Lincoln. It's quite possible that Davis and Lincoln could have de-escalated things through diplomacy, but obviously, that didn't happen.

The lesson to be learned there is that the white racist southern population needs to be driven to extinction, socio-politically speaking.

 

[Correll]

I would argue the only thing radical about his approach was how he handled Reconstruction. I believe his approach was somewhat necessary to protect the rights of blacks, but in doing so, many whites were angered. After his assassination, Andrew Johnson took a moderate approach, but the end result was that Jim Crow eventually happened.

To put it bluntly, as soon as things escalated at Fort Sumter, war was inevitable. I don't blame that solely on Lincoln. It's quite possible that Davis and Lincoln could have de-escalated things through diplomacy, but obviously, that didn't happen.

Fort Sumter was Lincoln maintaining a military force in a hostile state. That was not the action of someone looking to deescalate.

 

[Uriel]

None of those complicating factors should have resulted in Floyd's death. Nor do they account for the disproportionate amounts of force Minneapolis police officers routinely used against black residents as per the report. You don't think that contributes to agitated citizens?

Well, one factor in particular was that the knee technique was approved by the police department. Police were literally trained and encouraged to use it. Under normal circumstances (someone not suffering from an overdose), breathing would not have become an issue.

Floyd himself even requested that they let him lie on the ground, but ironically, even without the knee applied to him, it's likely he could have asphyxiated without medical assistance.

But I agree that disproportionate force can lead to distrust and agitation.

 

[Correll]

You can't escape the fact of this simple statement you deplorable mutant.

If you were a decent human being you'd be rooting for the slaves to rise up and slaughter the slavers.

You talk real tough, when someone else already did the fighting for you, like a hundred years before you were born.

 

[Uriel]

The lesson to be learned there is that the white racist southern population needs to be driven to extinction, socio-politically speaking.

Or you could simply go the route that has largely already happened -- people learning to coexist peacefully. Most southerners today racially intermingle in terms of friendships and sometimes in terms of relationships.

Racism usually dissipates most effectively through dialogue. Daryl Davis is a perfect example of this. He has successfully caused numerous KKK members to defect. A lot of the most racist whites have never even met black people. A positive initial impression followed by a sincere dialogue often leads to ending prejudice and hate.

 

[Correll]

Or you could simply go the route that has largely already happened -- people learning to coexist peacefully. Most southerners today racially intermingle in terms of friendships and sometimes in terms of relationships.

Racism usually dissipates most effectively through dialogue. Daryl Davis is a perfect example of this. He has successfully caused numerous KKK members to defect. A lot of the most racist whites have never even met black people. A positive initial impression followed by a sincere dialogue often leads to ending prejudice and hate.

 

[Curried Goats]

Well, one factor in particular was that the knee technique was approved by the police department. Police were literally trained and encouraged to use it. Under normal circumstances (someone not suffering from an overdose), breathing would not have become an issue.

Approved or not in situations of similar circumstances it was disproportionately used against black residents. If white residents were receiving similar treatment it might not still be approved practice.

Floyd himself even requested that they let him lie on the ground, but ironically, even without the knee applied to him, it's likely he could have asphyxiated without medical assistance.

But I agree that disproportionate force can lead to distrust and agitation.

And when compared to the deifying of Floyd, the dismissal of evidence of decades of racist practices by the Minneapolis police department on behalf of Republican voters in general and Republican politicians specifically, you tell me which one is worse. I can roll my eyes at liberal antics but racists need to be defeated and wiped from office.

 

[Uriel]

Fort Sumter was Lincoln maintaining a military force in a hostile state. That was not the action of someone looking to deescalate.

True, but I can make an analogy with Ukraine. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was not a peaceful action, but our response to it doesn't lead to conflict resolution. If we had come to the table about getting Ukraine to maintain neutrality rather than offering them NATO membership, Putin probably would have backed down.

Davis could have probably negotiated with Lincoln to peacefully remove his forces in exchange for letting them bring back some equipment and other resources from Sumter.

Obviously, there's no guarantee this would have avoided war overall, but it would have been a good start.

 

[Correll]

True, but I can make an analogy with Ukraine. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was not a peaceful action, but our response to it doesn't lead to conflict resolution. If we had come to the table about getting Ukraine to maintain neutrality rather than offering them NATO membership, Putin probably would have backed down.

Davis could have probably negotiated with Lincoln to peacefully remove his forces in exchange for letting them bring back some equipment and other resources from Sumter.

Obviously, there's no guarantee this would have avoided war overall, but it would have been a good start.

These issues are too nuanced for analogies.


Lincoln was not going to let the South go. Lincoln was not going to let slavery expand to try to keep up with the free states.

That left the Southern leadership, all based in the Plantation Class, with two choices, their world ending, or fight.

 

[Curried Goats]

Or you could simply go the route that has largely already happened -- people learning to coexist peacefully. Most southerners today racially intermingle in terms of friendships and sometimes in terms of relationships.

Racism usually dissipates most effectively through dialogue. Daryl Davis is a perfect example of this. He has successfully caused numerous KKK members to defect. A lot of the most racist whites have never even met black people. A positive initial impression followed by a sincere dialogue often leads to ending prejudice and hate.

That learning period consisted of a hundred years of lynchings and terrorism under Jim Crow and I should accept that as reasonable because now, occasionally we can change hearts, one racist at a time? No. The total annihilation of those racists and slavers would of suited black Americans better.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Your citation is a perfect example of the GOP trying to do its own version of racial pandering. Both sides are guilty of it, but trying to curry favor with the NAACP by appealing to a false narrative whether it involves pretending guilt or guilt among the opposition is deceitful.

Granted, the NAACP itself has outlived its usefulness to begin with.

Ok

 

[Uriel]

Approved or not in situations of similar circumstances it was disproportionately used against black residents. If white residents were receiving similar treatment it might not still be approved practice.

And when compared to the deifying of Floyd, the dismissal of evidence of decades of racist practices by the Minneapolis police department on behalf of Republican voters in general and Republican politicians specifically, you tell me which one is worse. I can roll my eyes at liberal antics but racists need to be defeated and wiped from office.

Maybe, but consider the case of Tony Timpa. He died under what could be considered worse circumstances than Floyd with the same technique being used. No one really cared, because Timpa was white.

I would argue that people and the media generally care more when blacks are targeted. I'll concede that this is a relatively recent development, but it's been true for at least the last decade.

Well, for starters, Minneapolis hasn't been Republican controlled for quite some time, so blaming them for how things are going in the city today seems a bit misguided. Maybe you should ask why a Democrat controlled city experiences this issue....

 

[Uriel]

That learning period consisted of a hundred years of lynchings and terrorism under Jim Crow and I should accept that as reasonable because now, occasionally we can change hearts, one racist at a time? No. The total annihilation of those racists and slavers would of suited black Americans better.

Hypothetically, yes. That didn't happen, and so, we now live under very different social conditions that do not require an all out race war. There are certainly some people that are gunning for one though.

 

[Curried Goats]

Maybe, but consider the case of Tony Timpa. He died under what could be considered worse circumstances than Floyd with the same technique being used. No one really cared, because Timpa was white.

You mean the mainstream media never reported on it because he was white. Guaranteed Democrats and progressives care when police murder citizens, even white ones. Daniel Shavers murder at the hands of police was tragic and unavoidable and should of gotten a lot more attention.

I would argue that people and the media generally care more when blacks are targeted. I'll concede that this is a relatively recent development, but it's been true for at least the last decade.

I would argue that generally the Republican base does not. Not even now.

Well, for starters, Minneapolis hasn't been Republican controlled for quite some time, so blaming them for how things are going in the city today seems a bit misguided. Maybe you should ask why a Democrat controlled city experiences this issue....

The leadership of police forces and police unions in this country is still largely white and conservative.

 

[Uriel]

These issues are too nuanced for analogies.


Lincoln was not going to let the South go. Lincoln was not going to let slavery expand to try to keep up with the free states.

That left the Southern leadership, all based in the Plantation Class, with two choices, their world ending, or fight.

But you see the issue though, right? As you mentioned, that plantation class was the elite of the South. The average southerner was far too poor to own slaves.

By the same token, the average northerner didn't have any vested interest in having the South as part of the Union.

So, ultimately, the problem with the Civil War was the same as most wars -- the elites just wanted to pit their poor against each other for their own benefit.

The only saving grace to the war was the end of slavery. Had that not occurred, it would have been a war fought without any real positive change.

 

[Curried Goats]

Hypothetically, yes. That didn't happen, and so, we now live under very different social conditions that do not require an all out race war. There are certainly some people that are gunning for one though.

I was also addressing your comments about people learning to co-exist together. The 100 years of white terrorism weren't hypothetical. I could argue that they didn't really come to be okay with co-existing with blacks but rather accepted the fact that there was nothing they could do to change it. For those people though, when the end comes (their socio-politcal strangle hold on the south) they will reach for violence. It will be all they have left.

 

[Correll]

But you see the issue though, right? As you mentioned, that plantation class was the elite of the South. The average southerner was far too poor to own slaves.

But slavery was NOT the only issue. Their were real economic conflict between the north and south in trade interests and real differences in culture, that lead to regional tension and strife.

The average southern might not own a slave, or even want to, but did want to see his state and fellow state citizens to prosper instead of being marginalized by hostile and unfriendly Northerners.

By the same token, the average northerner didn't have any vested interest in having the South as part of the Union.

Regional identity and interests were real, similar to the South. AND Lincoln, a known Abolitionists, was ELECTED, by the voters. So, while the war was sold as being "to maintain the union", let's not ignore that there was long standing causes for tension and conflict.

So, ultimately, the problem with the Civil War was the same as most wars -- the elites just wanted to pit their poor against each other for their own benefit.

Maybe.

The only saving grace to the war was the end of slavery. Had that not occurred, it would have been a war fought without any real positive change.

Perhaps.