Under-equipped U.S. troops fighting in Iraq.

W

White knight

Guest
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/31/60minutes/main652491.shtml

Two weeks ago, a group of Army reservists in Iraq refused a direct order to go on a dangerous operation to re-supply another unit with jet fuel.

Without helicopter gunships to escort them over a treacherous stretch of highway, and lacking armored vehicles, soldiers from the 343rd Quartermaster Company called it a suicide mission.

The Army called it an isolated incident, a temporary breakdown in discipline, and an investigation is underway.

But the 343rd isn't the first outfit to be put in harm's way without proper equipment, and commanders in Iraq acknowledged that the unit's concerns were legitimate, even if their mutiny was not.

With a $400 billion defense budget you might think U.S. troops have everything they need to fight the war, but that's not always the case.

Correspondent Steve Kroft talks to a general, soldiers in Iraq, and their families at home about a lack of armored vehicles, field radios, night vision goggles, and even ammunition - especially for the National Guard and reserve units that now make up more than 40 percent of U.S. troops.

In this report, Kroft also talks to Sen. John McCain about how pork-barrel politics have shortchanged troops on the ground.

Every couple of weeks Karen Preston gets a telephone call from her son Ryan who is serving in Iraq with the Oregon National Guard.

But Karen Preston has been worrying a lot ever since last summer when Ryan returned home on leave and showed her these photos of the unarmored vehicles his unit was using for convoy duty in Iraq.

Lacking the proper steel plating to protect soldiers from enemy mines and rocket propelled grenades, they had been jerry-rigged with plywood and sandbags.

"They were called cardboard coffins," Preston says.

There have been more than 9,000 U.S. casualties in Iraq so far – more than 8,100 wounded and 1,100 killed. Nearly half of those casualties are the result of roadside bombs, known as improvised explosive devices or IEDs in military jargon. Yet the U.S. military still lacks thousands of fully armored vehicles that could save American lives.

Specialist Ronald Pepin, who serves in Baghdad with the New York National Guard, says, "They have no ground plating. So if you hit something underneath you, then it's going to kill the whole crew, you know? And that's just something you have to live with."

Staff Sgt. Sean Davis from the Oregon National Guard was critically wounded last June when his unarmored Humvee hit an IED outside of Baghdad. He suffered shrapnel wounds, burns, and was unable to walk for six weeks.

Davis said his Humvee was armored with plywood, sandbags, and armor salvaged from old Iraqi tanks.

He considers himself lucky that he wasn't killed in the blast. His friend and fellow guardsman Eric McKinley, who was riding in the same vehicle, wasn't so fortunate. The 24-year-old Army specialist died of his wounds. His father Tom said his son was supposed to have been discharged from the Oregon National Guard a few months before his death, but was held over because of the war.

McKinley says his son would have stood a lot better chance of surviving had his vehicle been fully armored.

"Our troops need to be protected over there to the best ability that we can protect them and it's not being done," he says.

The Department of Defense denied a 60 Minutes request for an on-camera interview to explain the situation. But responding to a written question about vehicles traveling dangerous routes in Iraq being armored with plywood and sandbags, the Army told us, "As long as the Army has a single vehicle without armor, we expect that our soldiers will continue to find ways to increase their level of protection."

60 Minutes went to a man more familiar with the problems facing the Oregon National Guard than anyone else – its commanding general, Ray Byrne. General Byrne was somewhat reluctant to talk when 60 Minutes showed him pictures of his men's Humvees and trucks, armored with plywood and sandbags.

"If you have nothing then that's better than nothing. The question becomes then again when – when are they going to receive the full up armored Humvees? And I don't have that answer," says Gen. Byrne.

"It distresses me greatly that they do not have the equipment. I don't have control over it. The soldiers don't have control over it. The question becomes, 'When is it going to be available? When is it going to be available? When will they have it?'"

There are still no good answers to those questions. Most of the vehicles in Iraq arrived there without armor plating, because the Pentagon war planners didn't anticipate a long, bloody insurgency.

But 18 months after President Bush declared an end of major combat, the Pentagon is still struggling to provide the equipment needed to fight the war.

Oregon Congresswoman Darlene Hooley, a Democrat whose district includes Gen. Byrne's National Guard, complained to the secretary of defense. She says she thinks the vehicles are not fully armored yet because military planners didn't anticipate an insurgency.

"We didn't have enough armored vehicles," she says. "They weren't manufactured."

Congress has appropriated additional money for armored trucks and Humvees, over $800 million in the current defense bill.

The Army told 60 Minutes they will have produced 8,100 fully-armored Humvees by March.

However, production is lagging behind the urgent need, and the Pentagon's interim solution is shipping so-called "add-on armor" kits to Iraq, where they are being bolted on to thousands of vehicles.

But most of those add-ons don't protect the bottom of the vehicle, leaving them vulnerable to an explosive device.

And it isn't the only equipment problem facing soldiers in Iraq.

Oregon guardsman Sean Davis told us that his unit was short ammunition and night vision goggles, and lacked radios to communicate with each other.

He says guardsman were using walkie-talkies that they or their families purchased from a sporting goods or similar store. "And anybody can pick up those signals, you know," he says. "And we don't have the radios that we need."

Gen. Byrne says stories about families in Oregon having to go out and buy for their sons and daughters radio equipment, body armor, GPS gear, computers and night vision goggles because they weren't being issued are true.

He said some Guard units are also using Vietnam era M-16 assault rifles, which he calls adequate for state duty but not acceptable for duty in Iraq. There is also a bullet shortage for training, he says.

It bothers him, but "there's nothing I can do about it," he says.

"If I was making the decisions, I would readjust," he says. "The soldier on the ground should be a focus. When that's taken care of you can take care of other stuff."

The Army acknowledged to 60 Minutes that there is a shortage of radios in Iraq and a shortage of bullets for training, and says both are in the process of being remedied. There have also been problems with maintenance and replacement parts for critical equipment like Abrams tanks, Bradley personnel carriers and Black Hawk helicopters.

Winslow Wheeler, a long time Capitol Hill staffer who spent years writing and reviewing defense appropriations bills, thinks he knows one reason why those shortages exist, after looking at the current Defense budget. Army accounts that pay for training, maintenance and repairs are being raided by Congress to pay for pork-barrel spending.

Wheeler says $2.8 billion that was earmarked for operations and maintenance to support U.S. troops has been used to "pay the pork bill."

Wheeler, who has written a book called "The Wastrels of Defense," says congressmen routinely hide billions of dollars in pet projects in the defense bill.

And buried in the back of this one, Wheeler found a biathlon jogging track in Alaska, a brown tree snake eradication program in Hawaii, a parade ground maintenance contract for a military base that closed years ago, and money for the Lewis and Clark Bicentennial celebration.

By law, these projects can't be cut, so Pentagon bookkeepers will have to dip into operations and maintenance accounts to pay for them.

"They do all kinds of things that adds up to: 'We're basically eating our own young to support the war,'" he says.

According to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., a member of the Armed Services Committee who speaks out against pork-barrel spending, there is a total of $8.9 billion of pork in this year's defense bill, which would go a long way toward upgrading all the equipment used by the National Guard.

"I don't think that this war has truly come home to the Congress of the United States," McCain says. "This is the first time in history that we've cut taxes during a war. So I think that a lot of members of Congress feel that this is just sort of a business-as-usual situation."

"The least sexy items are the mundane - food, repair items, maintenance – there's no big contract there," says McCain. "And so there's a tendency that those mundane but vital aspects of war fighting are cut and routinely underfunded."

It is not a comforting thought for families with loved ones in Iraq, who lack armored vehicles, radios or things they need to stay alive. It's on Karen Preston's mind every time she talks to her son.

"He's very pro-military, as am I," she says. "I just want them to have the best equipment."

Some armored vehicles have now been shipped to her son's unit, but without protection on the bottom of the vehicle, an insurgent's explosive is just as deadly.

Specialist Pepin on the New York Guard says, "It's kind of like an act of faith. When you get in your vehicle, you just hope, you know. Say a little prayer before you go out."

This weekend, Acting Secretary of the Army Les Brownlee wrote to 60 Minutes saying, "The Army has made great strides in improving the capabilities of all units deploying to Iraq as the nature of the conflict has changed." He noted the president approved spending $840 million to improve the armor on Humvees in Iraq.
U.S. Rep. Darlene Hooley, D-Ore., and Brig. Gen. Raymond Byrne, adjutant general of the Oregon National Guard, will appear on a "60 Minutes" segment tonight about under-equipped U.S. troops fighting in Iraq.

http://159.54.226.83/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041031/STATE/410310354/1042

This is the kind of crap I'm disgusted with companies like Halliburton profiting and ripping off the taxpayers, while our troops can't afford bullets and body armor.
Parent's sending their kids body armor and wall mart comms gear, is sad.
This shows where the Administrations real interest.
 
White knight said:
This is the kind of crap I'm disgusted with companies like Halliburton profiting and ripping off the taxpayers, while our troops can't afford bullets and body armor.
Parent's sending their kids body armor and wall mart comms gear, is sad.
This shows where the Administrations real interest.

Keep that in mind when you think of Kerry, Kennedy and their ilk, as they continue to vote against every military budget and military initiative they can. Keep that in mind when they cry about the money being spent on the war. Personally, I don't care if it costs trillions. If that's what it takes to keep our troops properly armed/trained/equipped & the terrorists dying - I have no problem paying my fair share.
 
wouldn't our buying planes, trains and autormobiles help the other corporations you seem to deride so much? Sure it would. So your argument holds no water. What happened to the vast, military industrial complex as promoted by your friends? Could our shortage of equipment be due to lack of support for the military in the 90s? You know, that shit ain't made over night.
 
White knight said:
This is the kind of crap I'm disgusted with companies like Halliburton profiting and ripping off the taxpayers, while our troops can't afford bullets and body armor.
Parent's sending their kids body armor and wall mart comms gear, is sad.
This shows where the Administrations real interest.

Haliburton my ass. Save your indignation for eight years of neglect by the Clintonistas.

But then the safety of the military is only an issue for libs when it gives them something to bitch about during an election.
 
Sir Evil said:
So Mr. Neutral I dont support either party, why don't you learn a little more before you come out to play with the big boys!

what is Wall mart comms gear?
I was going to vote for Bush until I found out his Texas Ol boys have a history of getting rich on Wars.

And you Neo-cons just don't care,

Wallmart comms, gears, are cheap Motorola unsecure walkie talkies.
I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.
 
White knight said:
I was going to vote for Bush until I found out his Texas Ol boys have a history of getting rich on Wars.

And you Neo-cons just don't care,

Wallmart comms, gears, are cheap Motorola unsecure walkie talkies.
I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.

And Michael Moore is voting democrat too. We'll miss your vote as much as his.
 
White knight said:
I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.

KISS MY LILY-WHITE ASS! I myself am an eight year veteran of the US Army. I was an INFANTRY GRUNT and I served with the 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry of the 24th Infantry Division during both Desert Shield and Desert Storm. You know nada so SHUT THE FUCK UP!
 
freeandfun1 said:
KISS MY LILY-WHITE ASS! I myself am an eight year veteran of the US Army. I was an INFANTRY GRUNT and I served with the 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry of the 24th Infantry Division during both Desert Shield and Desert Storm. You know nada so SHUT THE FUCK UP!

:clap:

I can't wait to see if NT reads his posts and responds. :)
 
Merlin1047 said:
Haliburton my ass. Save your indignation for eight years of neglect by the Clintonistas.

But then the safety of the military is only an issue for libs when it gives them something to bitch about during an election.
If I’m not mistaken it was your old boy, who said he would make sure the troops got the best equipment and everything they need to fight the evildoers, I think he even said it during the debates.
I know it’s Clintons fault, the big deficit, the lack of jobs, just blame it all on the other guy, apparently the buck stops everywhere but the presidents desk.
I’m not a Democrat, but the shameful way you people act, makes me want to join them.
 
freeandfun1 said:
KISS MY LILY-WHITE ASS! I myself am an eight year veteran of the US Army. I was an INFANTRY GRUNT and I served with the 3rd Battalion, 15th Infantry of the 24th Infantry Division during both Desert Shield and Desert Storm. You know nada so SHUT THE FUCK UP!
And that does not piss you off, Halliburton overcharging for meals, civilian’s getting paid 3 times as much as troops doing some of the same work.
 
Flying Duck said:
NOOOOO, don't. The communists will really miss you.
Again we are back to the little Baby talk, that sooo cute.
 
Avoid the issues, and keep up with the hatefull remarks it's making me feel good.
 
White knight said:
And that does not piss you off, Halliburton overcharging for meals, civilian’s getting paid 3 times as much as troops doing some of the same work.

Nope. Cuz it was corrected. That is what audits are for.

I am also not pissed at civilians making money. Especially since MANY of those civilians are vets like myself. See, for me, the Army was a stepping stone I used to become a better man. I now make a LOT of money and it is all a direct result of what I learned while being an ENLISTED man in the Army. The Army taught me skills no university can teach. It taught me how to be a man, how to lead, how to be independent when needed and how to work as a team when needed. I know LOTS of guys that got out of the Army and are now working for civilian contractors and they are happy the Army was the stepping stone that allowed them to do it. When you have a clue, reply. Until then, I would just prefer you not reply as your ilk irritates the FUCK out of me.
 
All these bad reports that keep comming out about Bush by the liberal communist media, might just cost him the popular support. And spawn more libs to feed the Evil liberal agenda.

Again nobody can make any tangible comments about the topic of the post, the issue of the troops being under equipped, other then blame it on some Evil liberal conspiracy to control the media and disarm the United States.
 
White knight said:
All these bad reports that keep comming out about Bush by the liberal communist media, might just cost him the popular support. And spawn more libs to feed the Evil liberal agenda.

Again nobody can make any tangible comments about the topic of the post, the issue of the troops being under equipped, other then blame it on some Evil liberal conspiracy to control the media and disarm the United States.

I answered and you ignored. Whish shows your IGNORANCE!
 
freeandfun1 said:
I am also not pissed at civilians making money. Especially since MANY of those civilians are vets like myself. See, for me, the Army was a stepping stone I used to become a better man. I now makes a LOT of money and it is all a direct result of what I learned while being an ENLISTED man in the Army. The Army taught me skills no university can teach. It taught me how to be a man, how to lead, how to be independent when needed and how to work as a team when needed. I know LOTS of guys that got out of the Army and are now working for civilian contractors and they are happy the Army was the stepping stone that allowed them to do it.
Good for you,

I feel the same for you, feel free to put me on your ignore list, as I may you.
 
You guys got away from the point!! I am disturbed these soldiers aren't getting what they need. Depending on crapy substitutes from home. You guys gotta lay off a little. Also WK vote bush Kerry is a piece of shit. I only hope after this election Bush will raise taxes and give the military the necessary funds needed.
 
wolvie20m said:
You guys got away from the point!! I am disturbed these soldiers aren't getting what they need. Depending on crapy substitutes from home. You guys gotta lay off a little. Also WK vote bush Kerry is a piece of shit. I only hope after this election Bush will raise taxes and give the military the necessary funds needed.

Look, we ALL want the soldiers to have what they need. WK is just putting his anger in the wrong place. If he really thinks Kerry will do a better job of supporting the military, then I have an ocean front home I would like to sell him in Death Valley, CA.
 

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