Under-equipped U.S. troops fighting in Iraq.

[wolvie20m]

I agree with you there, but he was simply stating that he thought the Army suply or lack there of. I will hope he votes for Bush cause Bush was the one to suggest the 87billion dollar bill.

 

[NightTrain]

This is the kind of crap I'm disgusted with companies like Halliburton profiting and ripping off the taxpayers, while our troops can't afford bullets and body armor.

Yes. Halliburton is responsible for the lack of proper equipment that our Military should have.

I won't bother with shredding your idiotic reference to Halliburton, as FreeandFun1 already made you look ignorant. I don't know what kinda MoveOn pond you're living in, but the Halliburton thing was dealt with in a timely manner.

In fact, freeandfun1 made you look foolish twice, I'm going to quote him later, stay tuned.

How about placing the blame on your heroes, the Democrats?

Which party consistently tries to gut our military?

Which party consistently tries to arm our troops with the latest and greatest?

Which party tried to gut our Intelligence budget before and AFTER 9/11?

Think carefully. This is something you'll be crucified with if you try to run your liberal bullshit.

Parent's sending their kids body armor and wall mart comms gear, is sad.
This shows where the Administrations real interest.

Does it? Explain this pearl, please. It goes without saying, of course, back your explanations up with legitimate backup for your stinging post!

I was going to vote for Bush until I found out his Texas Ol boys have a history of getting rich on Wars.

I've been watching you since you got here, you may have fooled some people with your bullshit, but I had you pegged within 4 posts.

You're not nearly as slick as you think you are.

And you Neo-cons just don't care, Wallmart comms, gears, are cheap Motorola unsecure walkie talkies.

This is indeed a problem that's being addressed. Or didn't you read your own article? Your Neo-Com buddies at MoveOn might be proud of you for posting this article, but have any of you idiots considered why our Military is not equipped for this?

Refer back to Who Guts The Military question I posed to you.

Oh, I know, you don't think that's fair, but it's life. Maybe you can get Hillary to denounce me or something for being too hard on an imbecile.

It's unfortunate that Uncle Ted Kennedy and Uncle John Kerry & crew thought that cutting our military budget was a good idea all these years! Oh yeah, gotta love those Clintons, too... they were definitely in the mix!

You are a rabid liberal and you have fooled no one here on this board.

To quote freeandfun1 :

The Army taught me skills no university can teach. It taught me how to be a man, how to lead, how to be independent when needed and how to work as a team when needed. I know LOTS of guys that got out of the Army and are now working for civilian contractors and they are happy the Army was the stepping stone that allowed them to do it. When you have a clue, reply. Until then, I would just prefer you not reply as your ilk irritates the FUCK out of me.

I was already coming up with my personal response to your limp-wristed sheep bleat when I read this. It's perfect.

I know what I've done and where I stand. I know where dozens of other people on this board stand and have done.

What have YOU done besides bad mouth this country? Let me guess, you've volunteered for the TeleTubbies fundraiser!

[clue] Smoking a doobie with your aged hippie mentor doesn't count.[/clue]

 

[drowe]

I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.

Guess again, there's a lot of us Vets here.

BTW - I know frustration, I was in the Army during Clinton's reign.

 

[Hemi_man]

Give me the damn keys. I'll drive the tha damn trucks.

 

[CSM]

I was going to vote for Bush until I found out his Texas Ol boys have a history of getting rich on Wars.

And you Neo-cons just don't care,

Wallmart comms, gears, are cheap Motorola unsecure walkie talkies.
I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.

You guessed WRONG!!

Rather than explain my military career, I will address the original issue from the user's perspective. It is true that some reserve units lacked some of the gear they need to run their missions. The same is true of some regular active duty units.

There are a few reasons for this. One is that Reserve units, particularly National Guard units, have historically been underfunded. If you think the regular Army got their budget cut during the Clinton years, you should see what happened to the Guard! Another reason is that many of the Guard units running missions today over there were not trained or equipped to run those missions originally; i.e, they were artillery units (equipped thusly) that got called up, trained quickly (six weeks or less) and sent over to perform security missions. Their artillery gear sits in storage at their armories. The military in general does not have enough security troops and never did have for this type of operation. In fact, with a few exceptions, no military force is trained specifically to provide security/stabilization forces. Most military units are trained for national defense; that means fighting wars.

Is it disturbing that some of the troops dont have the right gear? Yes it is. one thing for sure, Bush is not to blame. As was indicated earlier in this thread, that gear is not built overnight. It takes time to manufacture and distribute this stuff in enough quantity to be effective; ASSUMMING there is funding for it in the first place. The fact is that while we all sit here and say "the troops should have this and the troops should have that", the first thing folks want to do when the shooting stops is to cut the defense budget so we can finance some utopian idealistic welfare program. Free medical care for all, education through college for free for every child, endowments for art, and all that sort of thing gets funded off the back of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines.

Why do the civilians in Iraq get paid more than our soldiers? The answer is quite simple. It is because our congressional leadership in this country and a good chunk of the US citizenry dont want to pay our military personnel what they are worth. We have no problem seeing a sports figure collect millions of dollars annually, but whine like hell when someone proposes a 2% payraise for the military that barely keeps their salary even with inflation.

The American people had better wake up or someday they will find that the only soldiers they will have to worry about are those foreign hordes that occupy Hometown, USA.

 

[Merlin1047]

And you Neo-cons just don't care,

I'm guessing none of you served your country in any capacity, so you can't understand how fustrating this crap is.

Ummmm - 25 years.

sackful of medals - for whatever that's worth.

two combat tours.

don't recall making your acquaintance during any of that.

So if I may be crude just once - why don't you just shut the fuck up.

You dumbasses bitch that the troops don't have all the equipment they need, then you bitch that Bush is spending too much. Hypocrites.

 

[CSM]

Ummmm - 25 years.

sackful of medals - for whatever that's worth.

two combat tours.

don't recall making your acquaintance during any of that.

So if I may be crude just once - why don't you just shut the fuck up.

To be fair, there are a lot of vets I haven't seen or met. However, as you well know, you can always tell who was or wasn't "there". It's the 'look', donchya know.

 

[White knight]

You guys got away from the point!! I am disturbed these soldiers aren't getting what they need. Depending on crapy substitutes from home. You guys gotta lay off a little. Also WK vote bush Kerry is a piece of shit. Yeah they are just trying a distraction, to avoid the real issue and the truth.
Bush is the Texas Cowpie, it seems that history has neglected to point out the Bush Dynasty has a habit of meddling in foreign affairs, leading up to Wars and then making a profit off of it.
If history is correct and Bush steals the election again, the Iraq War will wage on making the Ol Boy’s very rich at the cost of the little peoples blood and taxes.
These guys have just drank the fascist, neo-con, cool aid, or are on the payroll, so matter what you say they will continue with their Nazi play book tactics.
I would join them if they would be a little nicer to me and make me an offer.
I could be a good asset to them and help them to brainwash the newcomers to the neo-con line of thinking.

 

[White knight]

It is ok for you guys to insult and blame liberal conspiracy, but no one else can do the same?

How fair and balanced is that, If you play nice I will play nice.
Look at my post from the begining I was very civil when I arrived here, you have made me show my true evil and ugly face.

 

[jimnyc]

Yeah they are just trying a distraction, to avoid the real issue and the truth.

I don't believe my post was a distraction. You support someone who has a history of deflating our military and voting to reduce funds and voting to reduce military initiatives, and complaining about the war budget - then you'll complain in the next breath that the troops might not have what they need.

Bush is the Texas Cowpie, it seems that history has neglected to point out the Bush Dynasty has a habit of meddling in foreign affairs, leading up to Wars and then making a profit off of it.

Why do you keep making accusations that are based on delusions when you know you have nothing more than a conspiracy theory to back it up. I'll be polite and ask again: Can you please provide proof of either Bush or his father profiting off of either war?

If history is correct and Bush steals the election again, the Iraq War will wage on making the Ol Boy’s very rich at the cost of the little peoples blood and taxes.

You see, this is why you get labeled a troll. You know damn well EVERY recount had Bush as the winner. It's truly sad when some still make this laughable claim. And again with the profits. I won't even ask as I know you can't deliver.

These guys have just drank the fascist, neo-con, cool aid, or are on the payroll, so matter what you say they will continue with their Nazi play book tactics.

And you must have drank from Michael Mooore's meatstick. You live your beliefs off of conspiracy theories, rhetoric and hunches. In other words, you apparently enjoy being lead by the moveon crowd. I have no sympathy for you.

I would join them if they would be a little nicer to me and make me an offer.
I could be a good asset to them and help them to brainwash the newcomers to the neo-con line of thinking.

The newcomers were fine before you arrived and I'm quite confident they would be quite fine without your input. Don't flatter yourself too much, you and your theories are a dime a dozen.

 

[White knight]

There is no conspiracy, or theories, its just plain simple American History.

Good Ol Boys do what good Ol Boys have done.
If your family has a history of being involved in with community government and community business, is that a conspiracy theory.
It is a Bush family fact Politics and business interest, mainly in the areas of defense.

When John D. Rockefeller’s father William Avery Rockefelle, sat on the board of education or it’s equivalent at the time and influenced the location of the first schoolhouse close to his own, was that some grand conspiracy theory.

I’m supposed to be a nice little gullible stoolie, and think that people in tempting positions of influence don’t scratch each other’s back? Nobody does, that in the work place, we all play nice and fair. Especially in the political arena these gentlemen are all decent and upstanding patriots, doing what is best for the public.

 

[jimnyc]

I don't believe I saw an answer to my question. Please answer yes or no, and if yes supply the links/sources/proof.

I'll be polite and ask again: Can you please provide proof of either Bush or his father profiting off of either war?

 

[jimnyc]

Jim - give this clown the axe, he's simply looking to stir things up here period!

I'm hoping that he'll be man enough to finally answer the questions I've been asking him for 2 days. He made the comments, I didn't think it was too much of me to ask for proof.

 

[jimnyc]

Why is it that I always hear crickets when asking for proof?

 

[wolvie20m]

This whole thread went to shit. I was intrested on some of the numbers and what not, now I don't even know where it stands.

 

[Merlin1047]

It is ok for you guys to insult and blame liberal conspiracy, but no one else can do the same?

How fair and balanced is that, If you play nice I will play nice.
Look at my post from the begining I was very civil when I arrived here, you have made me show my true evil and ugly face.

Well perhaps you need to practice on keeping your comments focused. You're the one who made the remark that you doubted any of us have ever served our country. You had no basis for that remark, it was simply an attempt at diversion.

You want to address the issue? Fine, let's cut through the baloney and cut this thing right down to the bone. Forget all the numbers. Forget who spent how much. Concentrate instead on history.

When was the last time since the Carter administration that you have heard a liberal do anything but bitch about the amount of money being spent on the military?

When was the last time a liberal president supported modernization of military equipment?

When was the last time a liberal administration promoted safety of our troops as part of its agenda? Clinton sent our troops into Somalia and refused to provide them the equipment they requested - even though it was available. The results are history.

So please don't start crying crocodile tears and bemoaning the equipment problems being experienced by our troops in Iraq. While this may be a genuine issue to you, it is only a target of opportunity to your party and to your candidate.

Kerry and the Democrats complain that the troops are ill-equipped. Had Pres. Bush posessed omniscient foresight and provided every conceivable need, then kerry and the Democrats would be denouncing the expense as being too extravagant. The fact is that neither kerry nor the Democratic party, nor most liberals give a rat's ass about the military. They are simply using this issue as an argument in an election where they rely on voters too lazy or too stupid to see through their lies.

 

[Merlin1047]

This is the kind of crap I'm disgusted with companies like Halliburton profiting and ripping off the taxpayers, while our troops can't afford bullets and body armor.
Parent's sending their kids body armor and wall mart comms gear, is sad.
This shows where the Administrations real interest.

Oh - and one more point. Your diatribe about Haliburton simply shows your total lack of knowledge about the procurement process.

The military is not beset by corporations wanting to sell them equipment like so many door-to-door salesmen. The military decides what it's current and projected needs are and then designs equipment to meet that need.

Equipment is designed to military specifications (MilSpec). Matter of fact, there used to be a standing joke about the numerous requirements imposed on new equipment that went "What's an elephant?" and the answer was "It's a MilSpec mouse".

Haliburton does not "rip off" the military by failing to provide equipment as specified. Matter of fact, I'm not sure if Haliburton even provides any of the warfighting tools currently in use or not. But if the military lacks the tools it needs, then it is either the fault of military planners, or it is the fault of politicians who fail to provide the money needed to procure that which is required.

George Bush is the President of the United States. He is not a general in any of the armed services. Pointing the finger at George Bush because Hummers have no belly armor is patently ludicrous.

 

[Zhukov]

Clinton sent our troops into Somalia and refused to provide them the equipment they requested - even though it was available.

I simply could not believe it when I read that our military had to ask the Pakistanis for help because we didn't have a single APC. Nor did we have any tanks.

 

[wolvie20m]

Yea I agree thats what I think Kerry will end up doing to our troops in Iraq.

 

[dmp]

Anyone here actually KNOW any Iraq Vets? Let's ask THEM how under-equipped they were, or were not.