I still would not ask anyone to do a job that I would not have personally been willing to do myself. It is called ethics.
that is not ethics. but it is a poor management decision.
Yes no doubt when time is considered a factor or when or if I did not know personally how to do a job I hire another to do that job for me. Attorneys, accountants, bookeepers, etc...
I still would not try to skimp someone else out of a decent living. For any reason.
So the kid you hire to sweep your porch or wash your windows should be paid enough to "make a decent living"?
Even when we were training people they made more than minimum wage. Alas there are/were government programs that assist an employer to help defray cost to train employees if the employer takes the time to file for these things.
My business was very successful even to the point when I quit contracting the state I contracted in asked me to come back. I declined.
You have said previously you pay your people well above minimum wage. Eight times that amount if I recall. How does that make you qualified to determine everyone else should work for only the current minimum wage?
I do because the market dictates that I must. And 2 out of my 10 employees are paid over $55 an hour but the support staff is not paid that much. they are paid slightly over the national average for their positions. Which is above minimum wage.
And I am not determining, nor am I suggesting that everyone work for only minimum wage. I am saying that there are some jobs out there that are not worth more than minimum wage. Jobs that are not important to the market or those menial tasks like raking leaves or sweeping floors are simply not worth more. And it makes more sense for me to pay someone $8 an hour to do those jobs than for me to waste that time doing those jobs where I could be bringing in significantly more money if i didn't do them.
Heck people at Walmart can't even afford to buy the groceries where they work. I have a problem with that. Yet we had this discussion before and it has not a darn thing to do with a few of the richest in American doubling their wealth does it? Unless of course you ar one of them sucking the lifeblood out the country at everyone elses expense.
I know a girl that works as Walmart and earns over $10 an hour i don't find that to be unreasonable for what she does.
And why do you assume that one doubled his wealth at the expense of everyone else? He could have doubled his wealth by bringing some product or service to the public that made their lives better. Or he could have merely invested wisely and not had any direct involvement with any company.
That you believe that anyone who has more money than you think they should have is somehow exploiting people is your prejudice and bias, it is not necessarily true.
The basic tenet of the market is that people who freely trade goods and services, and labor is included in that, all benefit from that.
If you work at a job and you don't feel that the money you are being paid for your labor is worth at least a dollar more than what your labor is worth then you are free to sell your labor to another employer or you are free to develop a skill that the market will pay more for.
It is and always has been your choice to accept or leave a job.
This is way to much bs to answer skull. I am not going to keep wasting my whole morning responding to your usual line of garbage about the person who sweeps your porch or rakes your leaves. So here is the last response you get to that same ole same ole line of bs you spout.
Your making an argument over the guy the sweeps your porch and the guy you have
raking your lawn is a swipe at lumping all workers into what you refer to as menial work.
Fact is if you hire a landscaping business to rake your leaves as you call it those people are making an average of fifteen to twenty dollars an hour here in Iowa or over in Idaho. Of course unless you are hiring illegals to do that job or the kid down the street. Which in that case you are trying to twist facts to your twisted veiws/arguments that people should not be able to
make a living wage when they work for it!
You call paying people a living wage "poor management" others call it job security when they have people that can and will actually perform the work that the firm was hired for and not rip off either the customer or the contractor who has obligated to fill the needs of the customer because they do not make a living wage. It is also called simply "resources management". Hiring people that have enough intelligence to operate a mop, sweep a floor, and empty a trash can. You may make light of that but I can assure you not every moron can do those jobs. My company provided overall contract services that provided maintenance for everything above ground and underground daily that included any minor or major breakdowns that it takes to operate the commercial buildings and the surrounding areas of landscaping that we maintained. Granted the lightest work was that of daily operations mopping, cleaning, trash, sweeping, etc... Even those jobs require some knowledge in order to be performed sastifactory to meet the expectations of both the state and the public. I am sure you would not appreciate walking into a state/federal or facility that was filthy, broken, damaged etc... SEE they spend millions and millions of your tax payer dollars to build these public buildings, install the landscaping and it takes a bit more than just hiring any moron to mop the floors or maintain those buildings can cost you more in tax dollars if the person doing that job you probably think any moron could do.
You can make the argument in your twisted concepts that hiring of illegals that work for less in order to buff up your bottom line is
"poor management" also. It is also unethical plus illegal. That does not stop many from doing such though now does it?
That I personally know of in Texas, Iowa and Louisiana the contractors hire illegals. This has drove the market price for employment of American equipment operators into the ground. Many of those employers have that twisted "poor management" ideal you have. Why in the world would they pay an American operator twenty bucks an hour when they can hire an illegal for ten or less. The same goes for concrete finishers. Drive through Des Moines in the summer you'll see illegals finishing concrete on small public works contracts. Why do these employers do that? Because they can and people like you who would like to keep that minimum wage below a living wage assist these employers in doing such by claiming ethical employers are just "poor management". That is three states I have personally observed thsi practice God knows how many others have the same shit going on.
In the hog industry here our neighbor works for a supplier. The neighbor has a sideline of renting houses to them for their illegal immigrant workers. It falls back to that "poor management" you are claiming for those unwilling to go with this practice.
Or how about heading out to the West Des Moines mall and having a bite to eat in the food court there. The rich boys here built that place by pooling their money and getting some tax payer money added in there too. Heck most of those workers can't speak a bit of English. They built the buildings rented the space to wives, family members etc to employ more illegal workers and give the rich a nice fancy place to shop at a mall near the gated communities that they built for the bankers, insurance workers etc in Des Moines. Would not want those rich people to have to drive out where regular folks shop now would we.
You say you pay above minimum wage. Yet you try to ***** about insuring that each has an equal opportunity to make a living wage.
There is no argueing with ignorance skull and I see this as nothing more than spitting in the wind to keep this conversation going if you are to blind to see that the type of shit going on for the last twenty years has gotten so prevailant that these guys don't even worry about paying their taxes until they get appointed to a position and it gets looked into. Our laws mean nothing to people to greedy to see past their own noses.
The system as it is has no doubt taken away the want to for people who would and have worked hard with their own labor to improve their lives and trhe lives of those they are close too. There has been little done to make sure many are held accountable and it is the poor man in this country that is footing the bill with his sweat and labor while assholes sit around and make claims to others like you are saying it is just "poor management" on their part. When in fact it is that many of us out here are unwilling to sell ourselves into a system anymore that requires only the little guy to be accountable so the rich can get richer at the expense of others sweat and blood.
So you and bern have it figured right. I have no incentative to do better at this point within this corrupt system of our country as it is and I sure as hell do not hold another accountable for feeling the same way I do when my own countrymen would rather sell themselves for nothing rather than make everyone accountable equally.
