Ukraine war

[Silver Cat]

True but if Mexico invaded Texas or California I don't think the US would negotiate peace with Mexican troops still on (what was) US territory.

It depends. For example, Biden allow Mexican criminals came without battle at all. They just don't need to wear Mexican uniform. But even if Mexico is backed by Russia and China (especially, if they are backed by them), Shanghai Block's tanks and missiles in Texas are as unacceptable for us, as NATO tanks and missiles in Ukraine are unacceptable for the Russians.

So, let's play the game. Mexico, backed by China, Russia and the half of Latin America, invaded Texas, California and other "their" lands. Officially, their goal is 1821 border. Unofficially, their final goal is "total decolonisation of North America" (which means genocide of all Americans of European, Asiatic or African origin).

If there will be no other options to stop them - will you use nukes?

 

[alang1216]

Okay, I was born in the USSR, should all the land that was taken away from the USSR be given back? Or is that completely different?

What land are you talking about? East Germany maybe?

 

[alang1216]

Or, American annexation of Texas (and two thirds of Mexico). Or Greek's support of Ionian revolt in Persia. "We vs them". "They want to abuse, discriminate and kill us, so we should defend ourselves, even if that group of us is, formally, a part of another realm". Looks like one of the most ancient scenarios.

So your position is that others have behaved badly so now it is my turn? Sorry but I didn't buy that from my kids and I'm not buying it now.

Yes. So are Russians living in Ukraine (even if we count Ukrainian as a different language). Actually, linguistical and cultural differences between a well educated english-speaking Jew from New-York and poor Spanish-speaking handyman from Californian hinterland are much more significant that the difference between a well educated Russian-speaking Jew from Moscow and poor Polish-speaking handyman from Galician hinterland.

I think that is for the Ukrainians to decide, not you, not me, and not Russia.

 

[alang1216]

It depends. For example, Biden allow Mexican criminals came without battle at all. They just don't need to wear Mexican uniform. But even if Mexico is backed by Russia and China (especially, if they are backed by them), Shanghai Block's tanks and missiles in Texas are as unacceptable for us, as NATO tanks and missiles in Ukraine are unacceptable for the Russians.

How long has Ukraine been fighting with only their old Russian tanks? If Russia didn't destroy them, they wouldn't need new ones.

So, let's play the game. Mexico, backed by China, Russia and the half of Latin America, invaded Texas, California and other "their" lands. Officially, their goal is 1821 border. Unofficially, their final goal is "total decolonisation of North America" (which means genocide of all Americans of European, Asiatic or African origin).

If there will be no other options to stop them - will you use nukes?

Let's talk when that happens too far-fetched to even think about.

 

[Silver Cat]

So your position is that others have behaved badly so now it is my turn? Sorry but I didn't buy that from my kids and I'm not buying it now.

No. My position is that self-defense (including collective self-defense) is not bad.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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I think that is for the Ukrainians to decide, not you, not me, and not Russia.

Not only Ukrainians, but also for the Russian, Jews, Tatars, Hungarians, Poles and other people, who live there.

And we have right to support one of the sides or don't support any. And I think, that in this conflict, it's much more moral and pragmatical to support idea of equal rights for everyone, including Russians.

 

[Silver Cat]

How long has Ukraine been fighting with only their old Russian tanks? If Russia didn't destroy them, they wouldn't need new ones.

And now, when the German tanks came on the Russian land, it's pretty likely, that Russian tanks will come on the German land.

Let's talk when that happens too far-fetched to even think about.

What happened when the Russians deployed their missiles in Cuba?

 

[alang1216]

No. My position is that self-defense (including collective self-defense) is not bad.

So Russia invaded Ukraine in self defense? From Ukraine? From NATO?

Not only Ukrainians, but also for the Russian, Jews, Tatars, Hungarians, Poles and other people, who live there.

And we have right to support one of the sides or don't support any. And I think, that in this conflict, it's much more moral and pragmatical to support idea of equal rights for everyone, including Russians.

I agree. Russia could have held referendums sanctioned and recognized by the international community but instead had votes widely viewed as seriously flawed.

In late September 2022, in the context of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Russian-installed officials in Ukraine staged so-called referendums on the annexation of occupied territories of Ukraine by Russia.[1][2][3][4] They were widely described as sham referendums by commentators and denounced by various countries. The validity of the results of the referendums has been accepted by North Korea, and no other sovereign state.

It seems the Russians are the ones who ignored the Ukrainian Jews, Tatars, Hungarians, Poles and other people, who live there.

 

[alang1216]

And now, when the German tanks came on the Russian land, it's pretty likely, that Russian tanks will come on the German land.

You're joking, right? Russia can't even occupy Ukraine, it is going to take on NATO?

What happened when the Russians deployed their missiles in Cuba?

They were quickly removed once they were discovered. They were just there to make a point about US missiles in Turkey.

 

[luiza]

So Russia invaded Ukraine in self defense? From Ukraine? From NATO?

Russia had watched the US /NATO build up its military over 8 years specifically to invade Donbas.
This time two years ago Russia had ca 80000 troops facing a UAF of around180 000 and known to be invading around March1 , 2022 .
They had watched the US finance and build over 30 bio labs while Kyiv attacked Donbas daily .

And you really think Russia invaded Ukraine ?

 

[JohnDB]

So what is going on the Ukraine War. Have the Abrams tanks been a game changer. have the Abrams given the Ukrainian arm forces the edge?

Bradley's are actually doing remarkably well. Abrams tanks are too heavy to be a lot of use...the German leopards are doing okay.

No one has air supremacy....primary yes...but Russia can't beat the air defenses. And with drones....troops have to be kept in small groups. Which means that Russian fighters can't overwhelm anything (their usual tactics)

Basically it's a huge stalemate. NATO won't let Ukraine attack Russia directly at their home using their equipment...and Ukraine is only developing drones for the war effort.

Personally, I tend to think that Ukraine needs to develop their own rocket technology and begin blasting the Russian homeland. (They can and should)

Russia has sent so many "low class" and skilled trades to Ukraine to fight and die that their big cities infrastructure is crumbling. (Russian citizens are used to that) where this won't really do anything major to stop the war it does leave room for a "Black Swan" event to cripple the nation. And this is likely. Because mother nature has a way of showing up when you least want it to.

So...until something happens its still a stalemate. Despite the rhetoric. (Which should die down soon as all the big businesses find alternative sources for materials)

 

[alang1216]

Russia had watched the US /NATO build up its military over 8 years specifically to invade Donbas.
This time two years ago Russia had ca 80000 troops facing a UAF of around180 000 and known to be invading around March1 , 2022 .
They had watched the US finance and build over 30 bio labs while Kyiv attacked Donbas daily .

Your fantasy or Russian propaganda (assuming there is a difference). How exactly was US/NATO going to invade Donbas?

And you really think Russia invaded Ukraine ?

Russia annexed Crimea and Donbas and had tanks on the outskirts of Kyiv so yes, I really think Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

[luiza]

Bradley's are actually doing remarkably well. Abrams tanks are too heavy to be a lot of use...the German leopards are doing okay.

That is worse than Trilling .
100% lies .
There are no working Abram or Leopard tanks .
They all performed horrifically and the only ones part functioning are acting as mid range artillery because they are rescued and cobbled back together .
The Abrams sent out a huge heat (turbo) signal and became sitting ducks .
The Leopards were simply past their sell date . Useless .

Stop lying VD John

 

[luiza]

Your fantasy or Russian propaganda (assuming there is a difference). How exactly was US/NATO going to invade Donbas?


Russia annexed Crimea and Donbas and had tanks on the outskirts of Kyiv so yes, I really think Russia invaded Ukraine.

Your knowledge is sub IQ 80 -- see separate Topic .

I would not know where to start with someone as woefully zero informed as you are .

Do me one small favour . Never ever post me again under any circumstances .
I have never seen a post as awful as yours .

Number one comment is so asine as to reduce me to silence .
The second one just insanely wrong .

And people like you are empowered to vote and speak without first asking for permission .Unbelievable .

 

[alang1216]

Your knowledge is sub IQ 80 -- see separate Topic .

I would not know where to start with someone as woefully zero informed as you are .

Do me one small favour . Never ever post me again under any circumstances .
I have never seen a post as awful as yours .

Number one comment is so asine as to reduce me to silence .
The second one just insanely wrong .

And people like you are empowered to vote and speak without first asking for permission .Unbelievable .

I understand completely, if you have no defense for your position, attack the messenger. Very sad.

 

[Zebra]

What land are you talking about? East Germany maybe?

?y.?

 

[Deadstick]

Your fantasy or Russian propaganda (assuming there is a difference). How exactly was US/NATO going to invade Donbas?


Russia annexed Crimea and Donbas and had tanks on the outskirts of Kyiv so yes, I really think Russia invaded Ukraine.

The people of Donbas resisted the Coup regime in Kiev who tried to crush them, but had their arses handed to them by DPR militia, not Russian military, mistake Putin made was giving those Nazis years to build up their forces with Nato help, he didn't even recognize the breakaway republics for years.

 

[alang1216]

The people of Donbas resisted the Coup regime in Kiev who tried to crush them, but had their arses handed to them by DPR militia, not Russian military, mistake Putin made was giving those Nazis years to build up their forces with Nato help, he didn't even recognize the breakaway republics for years.

Years after he annexed Crimea that is. Once Putin did that it was obvious what his intentions were.

 

[Deadstick]

Years after he annexed Crimea that is. Once Putin did that it was obvious what his intentions were

Russia annexed Crimea as you put it to stop it being used by Nato including Sevastopol,as for the Ukrainian attacks on Donbas that was from April 2014 then a few days later the Kiev Junta murdered people in the trade Union building in Odessa by burning them alive and beating survivors to death, it was then the real resistance in Donbass started because they knew what to expect from those Kiev Nazis, if Russia had not secured Crimea the same thing would have happened there with gangs of Nazi thugs attacking, Putin acted like any real leader would have,and there were no people killed in Crimea, in fact many of the Ukrainian army and navy went over to the resistance.

 

[PeterPilot]

Your fantasy or Russian propaganda (assuming there is a difference). How exactly was US/NATO going to invade Donbas?


Russia annexed Crimea and Donbas and had tanks on the outskirts of Kyiv so yes, I really think Russia invaded Ukraine.

The people of both regions have voted to be in Russia. Does that matter to your analysis?

 

[alang1216]

Russia annexed Crimea as you put it to stop it being used by Nato including Sevastopol,as for the Ukrainian attacks on Donbas that was from April 2014 then a few days later the Kiev Junta murdered people in the trade Union building in Odessa by burning them alive and beating survivors to death, it was then the real resistance in Donbass started because they knew what to expect from those Kiev Nazis, if Russia had not secured Crimea the same thing would have happened there with gangs of Nazi thugs attacking, Putin acted like any real leader would have,and there were no people killed in Crimea, in fact many of the Ukrainian army and navy went over to the resistance.

I think your facts are off. It was not the Ukrainian government but mob violence at the Union building.

In early 2014, there were clashes between rival groups of protestors in the Ukrainian city of Odesa, during the pro-Russian unrest that followed the Ukrainian Revolution.[21][22] The street clashes were between pro-unity (and pro-European) protesters (as well as football fans) and anti-government (anti-Maidan), pro-Russian protesters. Violence erupted on 2 May, when a 'United Ukraine' rally was attacked by pro-Russian separatists. Stones, petrol bombs and gunfire were exchanged; two pro-Ukraine activists and four pro-Russia activists were shot dead in the clashes.[23][24][25][26] The pro-Ukraine protesters then moved to dismantle a pro-Russian protest camp in Kulykove Pole, causing some pro-Russian activists to barricade themselves in the nearby Trade Unions House. Shots were fired by both sides, and the pro-Ukraine protesters attempted to storm the building, which caught fire as the two groups threw petrol bombs at each other.[27][28][29]

In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula, part of Ukraine, and then annexed it. (This happened BEFORE the Union building.)