Ukraine war

[alang1216]

90% of any society are more or less apolitical. They don't really care who is in charge - Trump, Biden, Putin, Zelenskiy or whoever else. They do care about risk of being killed or about abusing and discrimination (and Russian don't discriminate ethnic Ukrainians). Ukrainians have been living in Russia for centuries. Actually, even Zelenskiy himself was born in the USSR.

Ahhh, more made up numbers and theories.

It's not about image. Russian State media can make any. The question is not about discrimination of Russians and/or being part of NATO military infrastructure. Their next openly declared goals are to return military infrastructure of NATO to the borders of 1997, and withdrawal of American nukes from Europe. They will try to make it politicaly first, but then, yes, they will try some hybrid warfare (backed by regular forces, of course). Saams' rebellion in Finland, disturbance in Baltic states, military coup in Italy, civil war in Germany, Irish terrorism in the Great Britain, etc...

If the Ukrainians are willing to fight our enemies for us why not give them all the tools they need?

 

[Silver Cat]

Ahhh, more made up numbers and theories.


If the Ukrainians are willing to fight our enemies for us why not give them all the tools they need?

Just open borders and watch how many Ukrainians actually want to fight. What is even more important, killing some Russian teenagers is useless for the safety of the USA. They are not the threat. Their nukes are. And we could build plenty of good nukes for our own defense instead wasting our money for that corrupted regime. Two hundred billion dollars is big money.
What's may be even more important, Ukrainians are not our good friends either. Uncontrollable arming them means direct threat for ourselves and our allies as it was with Muslim terrorism.

 

[alang1216]

Just open borders and watch how many Ukrainians actually want to fight. What is even more important, killing some Russian teenagers is useless for the safety of the USA. They are not the threat. Their nukes are. And we could build plenty of good nukes for our own defense instead wasting our money for that corrupted regime. Two hundred billion dollars is big money.
What's may be even more important, Ukrainians are not our good friends either. Uncontrollable arming them means direct threat for ourselves and our allies as it was with Muslim terrorism.

Both countries should open their borders and let's see how they vote.

Russian soldiers are as much victims of Putin as are the Ukrainian soldiers, however, every Russian tank that gets destroyed is one less that might day threaten us. A far more likely scenario than the Ukrainians threatening us or our allies.

 

[Silver Cat]

Both countries should open their borders and let's see how they vote.

Russian borders are open. Few hundred thousand had left Russia, more than half of them have already returned.

Russian soldiers are as much victims of Putin as are the Ukrainian soldiers, however, every Russian tank that gets destroyed is one less that might day threaten us. A far more likely scenario than the Ukrainians threatening us or our allies.

Russian tanks, invading the USA is more likely scenario, that Ukrainian gangs terrorising Poland, Rumania or America itself? Funny.

 

[Ringo]

"- Did you kill? - the question is asked with raised corners of the lips. The questioner feels as if he has caught the warring man by the gills. Now the latter will either have to confess to a terrible sin or start to be coy.

I've never heard such a question among those who have been in combat. Because they know a simple truth that is not always available to civilians. War is not about killing. War is about dying.

Not all soldiers are in the business of inflicting damage on the enemy. Even fewer of them get to see the enemy in the eye. The sheer number of people in a war zone will not kill anyone. But anyone can die. Especially in modern warfare. Here you can peacefully open the barrier of a Temporary Deployment Point, and a second later there is neither you nor the TDP.
I've seen enough people who kill the enemy. I have not seen any radical psychological or moral breakdown in any of them. But every second person who has been under fire, wounded, concussed - learns something new about himself. And not infrequently he breaks. That's war. It's about consciously playing roulette with your life. It's not about bemoaning the killing of the enemy.

Did you kill?
We did died." (c)

 

[luiza]

Why don't any of you get some sound sources instead of prattling nonsense ?

Ukraine has been obliterated .
They have no Air Force . Period .
Their artillery are outnumbered by around 10 to 1 .
They have run out of fighters -- as in men
They have absurdly short ammunition supplies .
They have women , kids and OAPs in the trenches .
Where do you get the drivel from that it is a draw ?
Ukraine is being over run
Get that in your thick heads
Presently Russia is on a major offensive and sweeping everything aside .


Whether they yet want to cross the Dneiper remains to be seen .
There is nothing that changes this and if you actually had followed matters as they unfolded you knew all of this with certainty from at least 10 months ago .

 

[alang1216]

Russian tanks, invading the USA is more likely scenario, that Ukrainian gangs terrorising Poland, Rumania or America itself? Funny.

Russia won't be invading the US anytime soon but they supply arms to many countries, mostly authoritarian ones like Syria, that we may confront one day.

 

[Ringo]

Russia won't be invading the US anytime soon but they supply arms to many countries, mostly authoritarian ones like Syria, that we may confront one day.

Of course! The US, after all, only supplies arms to freedom-loving and democratic countries. With the rare exception of "its own sons of bitches". Or very rarely to Nazi states like Ukraine.

 

[Moonglow]

The golden Rule of industrialized warfare is the mass production of war needs, Ukraine can't match Russia's industrial capacity so Ukraine will lose or they can call it a draw.

 

[Moonglow]

Of course! The US, after all, only supplies arms to freedom-loving and democratic countries. With the rare exception of "its own sons of bitches". Or very rarely to Nazi states like Ukraine.

That's: "God damned sons a bitches".

 

[alang1216]

Of course! The US, after all, only supplies arms to freedom-loving and democratic countries. With the rare exception of "its own sons of bitches". Or very rarely to Nazi states like Ukraine.

The US is just as bad as Russia but history has shown we often end up on opposite sides of global politics and we have fought against their arms. Afghanistan and Syria come to mind.

 

[alang1216]

The golden Rule of industrialized warfare is the mass production of war needs, Ukraine can't match Russia's industrial capacity so Ukraine will lose or they can call it a draw.

Tell that to Vietnam.

 

[Silver Cat]

Russia won't be invading the US anytime soon but they supply arms to many countries, mostly authoritarian ones like Syria, that we may confront one day.

The problem is, that now they can sell their nukes too - to Iran, to DPRK, or (what is most dangerous) to China.
Investing in destruction of some obsolete Russian tanks won't change a thing. We need to invest in the production of our own nukes, our own brand-new tanks, our own industry.
And yes, Ukrainians already do sell our weapons to our enemies.

 

[alang1216]

The problem is, that now they can sell their nukes too - to Iran, to DPRK, or (what is most dangerous) to China.

First off, China has their own nukes. Secondly how useful have nukes been since WWII?

Investing in destruction of some obsolete Russian tanks won't change a thing. We need to invest in the production of our own nukes, our own brand-new tanks, our own industry.

We have plenty of everything already, some might say too much.

And yes, Ukrainians already do sell our weapons to our enemies.

Got a link to a non-Russian propaganda site?

 

[Silver Cat]

First off, China has their own nukes. Secondly how useful have nukes been since WWII?

With more better nukes China may decide to play a game against the USA. And no, nukes are pretty useful, they gave us seventy years of peace and prosperity.

We have plenty of everything already, some might say too much.

Actually, no. We don't have enough tanks and other weapons to fight even a small European war (like current Ukrainian conflict).

 

[alang1216]

With more better nukes China may decide to play a game against the USA. And no, nukes are pretty useful, they gave us seventy years of peace and prosperity.

We've had seventy years of war, the nukes did nothing to change that.

Actually, no. We don't have enough tanks and other weapons to fight even a small European war (like current Ukrainian conflict).

And where do you get your information? We did pretty well against Sadam.

 

[Silver Cat]

We've had seventy years of war, the nukes did nothing to change that.

Really? Those were not "wars". Those were mere "operations".
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War is an intense armed conflict [a] between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.
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And where do you get your information? We did pretty well against Sadam.

Iraq is not in Europe. Saddam was betrayed by his own Generals, and then Iraq fell into the hands of Iran and ISIS. And yes, it was twenty years ago. Now, the situation is much worse.

 

[alang1216]

Really? Those were not "wars". Those were mere "operations".
---------
War is an intense armed conflict [a] between states, governments, societies, or paramilitary groups such as mercenaries, insurgents, and militias. It is generally characterized by extreme violence, destruction, and mortality, using regular or irregular military forces.

So Korea and Vietnam were mere operations? Good to know. I guess Ukraine is fighting in a mere operation and not a war. That will be a major comfort to them.

Iraq is not in Europe. Saddam was betrayed by his own Generals, and then Iraq fell into the hands of Iran and ISIS. And yes, it was twenty years ago. Now, the situation is much worse.

Iraq was one of the stupidest things we've ever done but there was no betrayal, only domination of the battlefield by the US.

 

[Silver Cat]

So Korea and Vietnam were mere operations?

Yes, of course. "Military police action", in the case of Korea.

Good to know. I guess Ukraine is fighting in a mere operation and not a war. That will be a major comfort to them.

Technically, yes. Ukraine is still fighting "Counter-terroristic operation" (since 2014), and Russia is fighting "Special military operation" (since 2022). That's why there is relatively low level of violence, casualties and collateral damage. It's not even a "Local war" de jure.

 

[Desperado]

Same as it ever was. Just another money laundering scheme from the Biden crime family