Ukraine Sinks New 500 Million Russian Warship Makarov

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Pick one and tell me why it's wrong.

I am sorry, but your armature opinions mean nothing. I was the Harpoon missile officer on guide missile cruiser and also operated the CIWS station at GQ. Your statements are all completely wrong.

I'll give you an example of how you did not think this through!

You said: "...we could air launch a Harpoon from standoff range easy enough with much less risk."

What is the standoff range for the Harpoon air-launched variant?

What aircraft would we use to carry it?

What would you use for targeting information?

 

[skye]

Fake news OP.

Here you have it.


UPDATE 12.33 am (MAY 7)

REPORTS that the Russian Navy warship ‘Admiral Makarov’ is currently on fire after being struck by Ukrainian Neptune missiles can not be corroborated by the US, Ukraine or Russia, according to officials.​

UPDATE: Russian Navy warship Admiral Makarov on fire - 'no information to corroborate reports'

REPORTS that the Russian Navy warship 'Admiral Makarov' is currently on fire after being struck by Ukrainian Neptune missiles can not be corroborated by

euroweeklynews.com

 

[beagle9]

Either would widen the war and draw NATO into the conflict. Putin changed his nuclear strategy due to the reality that Russia in no way can compete with all of NATO. They couldn't stop a NATO working without the U.S.

As for keeping this latest ship damage/sinking quiet, they have a major patriotic celebration in 2 days so they wouldn't spoil that with more bad news. No one really knows what the hell he's going to do on Monday but if he was WISE... he'd declare victory over Mariupol falling and begin pulling his troops back.

No one is really expecting him to do the smart thing though. His attack and then his military showing itself to be near totally inept at modern maneuver warfare has brought the world to the brink and it will never be like it was between '45 and '21 again. We are headed into uncharted and very dangerous times.

We call Russia inept in theater, but no one has fought modernized warfare involving ships, super Sonic jet's with missiles and such since the Falkland war.

Every single one of these nations might struggle greatly these days against modern day technology being used in war.

 

[skye]

Fakey, fakey fakey news OP!


Don't fall so easily for the misinformation war.

 

[eagle1462010]

Nope. USS stark was hit by two Exocet missiles in the Gulf. The Roberts hit a mine.

I retracted one and didn't google for memory.............Doesn't really matter anyways..........Our ships survived......

I was on the Reeves then..........where were you.

 

[eagle1462010]

Simpson and Wainwright hit the ptg. of Iran.

 

[para bellum]

I am sorry, but your armature opinions mean nothing. I was the Harpoon missile officer on guide missile cruiser and also operated the CIWS station at GQ. Your statements are all completely wrong.

I'll give you an example of how you did not think this through!

You said: "...we could air launch a Harpoon from standoff range easy enough with much less risk."

What is the standoff range for the Harpoon air-launched variant?

What aircraft would we use to carry it?

What would you use for targeting information?

From an F-18, it's about 120 nm for Block 1C according to published specs. With support from EA-18, it better not have any trouble getting into range from the Med.

I'm not saying it is the way we would do it- I'm saying it would be a hell of easier and less risky than trying to sneak an attack sub into the Black Sea to shoot a Harpoon at a Russian ship.

And that Turkey is particular about what passes, under the Montreax Conventions. An LA or Virginia may be within the tonnage limits, and not explicitly banned, but I know of no time a US Attack Submarine ever transited into the Black Sea. Russia has a cow if we send a Burke.

So if you know that's wrong, I will stand corrected. I don't think it is.

I was limiting the choice of weapon to Harpoons, since that's the accusation I was refuting (the secret "NATO" missile that supposedly really sank the Moskva/Makarov).

We have RC-135 and Global Hawk flying orbits in the Black Sea now, and NATO ISR flights total something like 130/day in Eastern Europe. The NYT leak confirmed that we were already providing location and vessel movements to Ukraine. So I will use the same targeting intel we are giving Ukraine already.

 

[eagle1462010]

We don't have any frigates.

Last mission for storied class of warships | CNN

When the USS Kauffman left Norfolk Naval Station this month, it marked the beginning of the end for an entire class of vessels in the U.S. Navy.

www.cnn.com

Didn't know that. 2015

 

[Batcat]

Exactly. Yet the Biden Regime keeps pushing more war.

We do live in interesting times.

 

[para bellum]

Will they ever learn?

 

[Turtlesoup]

If Russia Uses a Tactical Nuke will America & the EU stop buying their Oil ?

Germany and likely FRance won't....

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't believe a single word that comes out of the lying U.S. media or the Ukrainian propaganda spin machine.

But do you believe what comes out of the lying Russian media propaganda spin machine?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Russian frigate Admiral Makarov ‘on fire after being hit by Ukrainian missile’

Ship was sailing near Snake Island when hit, say reports

www.independent.co.uk

oh, no. It must have been one of those pesky internal "fires" again.

On fire, not sunk.

 

[beagle9]

Germany and likely FRance won't....

If a tactical nuke is used, it will stun the world and freeze it in a moment of horror. I wouldn't put anything past what will be used as the escalation continues. This is war, and no nation is going to just forget about it's soldier's being slaughtered when it has the ability to stop that slaughter in an instant. Anyone ignoring this scenario has their heads up their aces big time. Two atomic bombs were dropped on major population centers in Japan during world war two, and it was to limit the amount of casualties overall, and to break the will of Japan to conduct war any longer, otherwise meaning that without those nukes a full scale invasion of the Japanese mainland was to become imminent in the situation, and that was unexceptable..

What part of Russia being a nuclear state does the world, and especially Ukraine not understand ??

All the drums of war being constantly beat upon is escalation not de-escalation, otherwise it would be best to find a more peaceful solution to the serious problem between these two countries instead of war mongering and flexing the muscles of war up untill a very tragic end for all the world to witness.

Convincing Ukraine that it is up against a foe that could obliterate them with a tactical nuke might be a way to stop the drums of war from beating on both sides, and to hopefully bring all sides back to the diplomatic table somehow.

It would not show a means of coward on Ukraine's part to understand this, but rather it would be a realization that they are actually dealing with a nuclear state that's only been held back thus far because of world sentiment over the issue, but if Russia begins to lose overwhelmingly in theater, then who knows what will be the result of that if it becomes desperate enough.

Time for the world power's to work towards de-escalation instead of escalating through this watching of a modern war as if it's a movie out of Hollywood.

Avoiding nuclear armed conflict anywhere in the world should be the work going forward.

 

[badger2]

https://twitter.com/AnankeGroup

3h: 'F. So, there was no sinking of Makarov; everything is BS? A. Yes, it was some kind of misunderstanding.'

 

[badger2]

In post #95, the one speaking in the video is Zelenskiy's advisor.

 

[krichton]

IF Putin orders a tactical nuke to be used and his military complies (not assured) then the question before the rest of the world is stark. If NATO does not answer in kind then Putin may well feel he can use more of them in the future at a time and place of HIS choosing.
If NATO DOES respond with a tactical nuke, where would they strike? Not Ukraine, surely? If they strike Russian territory, there is no way he refrains from getting into a tit-for-tat. IOW, once he breaks that barrier, NO good can come from it for anyone.

I think the only non-nuclear response should be something so dramatic that it totally isolates them for decades, or until they come to the table with a willingness to unilaterally disarm from their nukes. Their "words" can never be trusted again.

If Putin were to use a tactical nuke he'd be playing a game that has no winners, with the odds of him being it's biggest loser. There are no scenarios where Putin comes away scoring some victory, none. Even china would abandon Russia. The only question left to ask is, how big can Putin lose, not whether he will.

 

[beagle9]

If Putin were to use a tactical nuke he'd be playing a game that has no winners, with the odds of him being it's biggest loser. There are no scenarios where Putin comes away scoring some victory, none. Even china would abandon Russia. The only question left to ask is, how big can Putin lose, not whether he will.

Question is how much is Putin willing to lose before deploying such a thing, otherwise regardless of the fall out ? A tactical battlefield nuke isn't the same as a ballistic world reaching nation killing nuke correct ?

 

[Donald H]

That is correct....it seems spectacular to the bench warmers here because it represents a big loss to Russia....they have chosen sides like the simpletons that they are. But you, as usual, are spot on with this message. Ships have become nearly obsolete in the face of improved missile technologies. No matter how big, well constructed or defended they are they have become little more than huge floating targets. If a real war broke out between US and China over Taiwan....the US navy would be Junk in a month.

JO

Is this second ship being sunk made up out of whole cloth and propaganda?
I think it's true that no ship is capable of defending itself and so watertight buklheads are their only insurance against sinking. Even heavily armoured battleships were sunk with impunity, ending their time as the ships of choice.

But then, if one considers the question on warships, there's hardly any reason to have them, other than for invasions of foreign countries by aircraft carriers and their aircraft.

This is a topic that's worth exploring further.

 

[justoffal]

Is this second ship being sunk made up out of whole cloth and propaganda?
I think it's true that no ship is capable of defending itself and so watertight buklheads are their only insurance against sinking. Even heavily armoured battleships were sunk with impunity, ending their time as the ships of choice.

But then, if one considers the question on warships, there's hardly any reason to have them, other than for invasions of foreign countries by aircraft carriers and their aircraft.

This is a topic that's worth exploring further.

The time of Naval power conveyed by surface ships is virtually over. Even then new and most mighty Gerald Ford with all of its sophistication and fire power is nothing more than a super expensive floating target. It simply cannot defend itself against the new hypersonic weaponry that has demonstrated the ability to hit a fly in the eye from thousands of miles away. A read up of the newest addition to China's massive anti-carrier missile paints is as a massive instrument with huge weight and striking force. It's trajectory is especially deadly. It climbs very high and then comes down with constant acceleration reaching unheard of speeds thus adding force multiplication to the strike. Some of the articles I read...NO LONGER AVAILABLE BTW ...I should have copied them to a file....indicated that at the last moment, just before impact....huge stiff fins open up to increase the force transfer surface from projectile to target. In short, even if the munitions which are enormous btw, did not detonate the strike alone would actually break the external hull of the ship just from the force of the impact. Add to that the fact that China is now mass producing them and you have an instant ingredient list for a fleet of dead Air craft carriers. They would all be at the bottom of the ocean in several months. It looks like the future of force projection is with the submarines.

The Unusual Carrier Killer Capability Of The Chinese Navy’s Strategic Bomber - Naval News

Facing aircraft carriers from the U.S. Navy, Royal Navy, Indian Navy and Japanese, China is looking for a counter. The Chinese Navy (PLAN) has developed a unique 'Carrier Killer' weapon for its H-6 strategic bomber.

www.navalnews.com

JO