Ukraine launches long range missles into russia

[22lcidw]

It is amazing how we talk like this. Over Ukraine.

 

[Kruska]

Neither Russia nor Ukraine are nato countries so we have no obligation to interfere in that war, at least not to bring extent of supplying one side of the war. Diplomacy is the only thing we should be doing. People don't understand that, we are fighting a proxy war with Russia, and we are using Ukraine to do it.

Diplomacy as a whole - obviously didn't work - just as it didn't work against a nationalist policy maker like Hitler.
And for NATO or the EU to support Ukraine (a country under attack by another country) is within the compliance of international law.

We are supplying weapons and technology to help a country win a war against another country. Yes, I know Russia invaded Ukraine, and we need to help them by putting pressure on Russia to get out. But when Russia tells you that providing these types of weapons is crossing a red line and is an act of war, you didn't turn around and do the very thing they warned you against.

What Putin is doing and saying is "pure desperate blackmail" - the only thing left to do for a Head of State who is obviously in charge of a incompetent military with no adequate technology and military equipment.
Hitler threatened with all out war in 1938 if Sudetenland wasn't given to him - At the time the UK simply wasn't militarily ready for an all out war against Germany, and France wasn't willing to get into one.

And the Hitler era simply taught the world a lesson - to which NATO and the EU is abiding to until today.

 

[Zavulon]

NATO hasn't attacked Russia militarily in any way - they simply support Ukraine and as such supply economic aid, keep training the Ukraine Armed Forces and deliver weapon systems to Ukraine - all of which is in absolute compliance with international law and has been done since 1991, adhering to the NATO (USA) and EU East-ward expansion policy.

Plain lie. Guidance, maintenance and control of long range weapons are provided directly by NATO's personel.

It was Putin who attacked sovereign Ukraine aka Crimea in 2014 and again in Feb. 2022.

Plain lie. Russia recognised independence of Crimean republic back in 2014 and independence of DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson oblasts in 2022.

 

[Zavulon]

Diplomacy as a whole - obviously didn't work - just as it didn't work against a nationalist policy maker like Hitler.
And for NATO or the EU to support Ukraine (a country under attack by another country) is within the compliance of international law.

What Putin is doing and saying is "pure desperate blackmail" - the only thing left to do for a Head of State who is obviously in charge of a incompetent military with no adequate technology and military equipment.
Hitler threatened with all out war in 1938 if Sudetenland wasn't given to him - At the time the UK simply wasn't militarily ready for an all out war against Germany, and France wasn't willing to get into one.

Plain lie. There was alliance Czechoslovakia-France-Soviet Union-United Kingdom that was ready to stay against Germany. And the first Hitler's attempt to take Sudets diplomatically failed because of the demonstration of decisivness of all members of the alliance. And it took special efforts from the UK to destroy already existing "continental alliance" (especially in the part France-Soviet Union) and then feed to Germany Czechoslovakia and after it - Poland and France. And yes, before it the UK sabotaged French attempts to prevent remilitarizisation of Reins region and annexation of Austria.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Kruska]

Plain lie. Guidance, maintenance and control of long range weapons are provided directly by NATO's personel.

A plain distortion of facts from you indeed - Guidance, maintenance and control of e.g. long range weapons underlie a joint command. And NOT by solely NATO personal. A joint-command was instituted already in Ukraine in 2016 (NATO applicant since 1991 aka NACC) and Partnership for Peace programme (1994), in respect to any NATO weapon system or cooperation with NATO. The CAP agreement from 2016 and NSATU in 2024 underline, confirm and strengthen this joint-cooperation.

It is documented as to what restrictions Ukraine has been given for any military equipment supplied or originating from a NATO member.
And in the latter case - the US and the UK have given the ALLOWANCE to Ukraine to make use of them. Subsequently ALLOWING Ukraine to make use of assets directed and deployed via the joint Ukraine-NATO command.

NATO Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine (NSATU)

At the 2024 Washington Summit, NATO Allies agreed to establish NATO Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine (NSATU) to coordinate the provision of military equipment and training for Ukraine by NATO member and partner countries, and will provide logistical support. Its aim is to place security assistance to Ukraine on an enduring footing, ensuring enhanced, predictable and coherent support for the long term. NSATU, which will operate in Allied states, will support Ukraine’s self-defence in line with the UN Charter. NSATU will not, under international law, make NATO a party to the conflict. It will support the transformation of Ukraine’s defence and security forces, enabling its further integration with NATO and ensuring that Ukraine is more capable of defending itself now and deterring any further Russian aggression in the future.

NSATU will be based in Wiesbaden, Germany, with logistical hubs in other NATO Allies in the eastern part of the Alliance. It will be led by a three-star general reporting to NATO’s Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) and involve around 700 personnel from NATO member and partner countries.

Are you saying that due to Israel being allowed to train with e.g. the US Air-force, equipped with US material and conducting strikes aided with US assets, against sovereign countries like Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, and Syria - that the US is conducting or in charge of those strikes??

Plain lie. Russia recognised independence of Crimean republic back in 2014 and independence of DPR, LPR, Zaporozhye and Kherson oblasts in 2022.

A plain lie from you indeed - there was no independent Crimea before the illegal occupation in 2014 conducted by Putin.
None of your above mentioned independence declarations were recognized by the UN. - since no international observers were present nor instructed by the UN, nor requested by Russia.

 

[Kruska]

Plain lie. There was alliance Czechoslovakia-France-Soviet Union-United Kingdom that was ready to stay against Germany. And the first Hitler's attempt to take Sudets diplomatically failed because of the demonstration of decisivness of all members of the alliance. And it took special efforts from the UK to destroy already existing "continental alliance" (especially in the part France-Soviet Union) and then feed to Germany Czechoslovakia and after it - Poland and France. And yes, before it the UK sabotaged French attempts to prevent remilitarizisation of Reins region and annexation of Austria.

Not a lie at all - FACT

Chamberlain convinced by his appeasement policy towards Nazi-Germany and France being reluctant to go to war - made it unavoidable for the UK to acquit towards Hitlers black-mail policy. (especially since the UK wasn't militarily prepared for a war) It was however the UK's conviction to only allow for the annexation of Sudentenland - in order to avoid a full blown war - to which the UK stood firmly upon Hitler having attacked and invaded Poland together with his new ally Stalin. - thus the UK and France declaring war onto Nazi-Germany. Something they should have done already in 1936, upon Hitler disrespecting the Rhineland issue.

Absolutely comparable with NATO forces that should have moved into Ukraine upon Putin attacking and occupying Crimea.

And again: NATO and the EU have learned an extremely painful lesson, latest since 1939 as to giving in towards political blackmail.
Putin is bluffing - simply because his conventional Armed forces got nothing to show for. And as long as NATO combat forces are not DIRECTLY involved in combating Russian forces within Russia's sovereign territory - Russia isn't being attacked by NATO.

Even if NATO combat forces would be deployed within Ukraine (which should have been done immediately on Feb. 2022) - they wouldn't be attacking Russia but simply combating invading Russian forces in a sovereign country, that requested their military assistance.

But do tell me - does Israel have a right to defend itself with US assistance??? - US hypocrites.

 

[scruffy]

Surprise surprise - the Chinese did it, with information provided by the Russians.

Danish Navy reportedly boards Chinese ship suspected in European undersea cable sabotage — Sweden’s Defense Ministry put freighter at the time and place of the disruption

Internet cables connecting Finland to Germany and Lithuania and Sweden were cut

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Ringo]

 

[Zavulon]

Not a lie at all - FACT

Chamberlain convinced by his appeasement policy towards Nazi-Germany and France being reluctant to go to war - made it unavoidable for the UK to acquit towards Hitlers black-mail policy. (especially since the UK wasn't militarily prepared for a war)

Chamberlain appeasement policy was caused not only by fear of the great German Army, but because their fear of the strong continental alliance - France-Czechoslovakia-Soviet Union.

It was however the UK's conviction to only allow for the annexation of Sudentenland - in order to avoid a full blown war - to which the UK stood firmly upon Hitler having attacked and invaded Poland together with his new ally Stalin. - thus the UK and France declaring war onto Nazi-Germany.

Really? And if Germany and the USSR together attacked Poland, why the UK and France declared war only onto Germany, and not only onto the USSR? And the answer is simple. No one (including Poland) in 1939, seen Soviet liberation of the West Ukraine and West Belarus - lands eastward of Kerzon line, temporarily occupied by Poland, as an act of war - first of all, because Poland de facto didn't exist at the start of the Russian operation, and second - because it was Poland, who cancelled Soviet-Polish non-aggression pact by attacking (allied with Germany and Hungary) Czechoslovakia.

Something they should have done already in 1936, upon Hitler disrespecting the Rhineland issue.

And they didn't do it, because of what?

Absolutely comparable with NATO forces that should have moved into Ukraine upon Putin attacking and occupying Crimea.

It would mean only start of WWIII ten years earlier - in 2014, instead of 2024.

And again: NATO and the EU have learned an extremely painful lesson, latest since 1939 as to giving in towards political blackmail.
Putin is bluffing - simply because his conventional Armed forces got nothing to show for.

Putin is not bluffing. And regional war is, by definition, nuclear war. And your tactical nukes have nothing to show.

And as long as NATO combat forces are not DIRECTLY involved in combating Russian forces within Russia's sovereign territory - Russia isn't being attacked by NATO.

They are already directly involved in the combating Russian forces within Russian pre-war territory.

Even if NATO combat forces would be deployed within Ukraine (which should have been done immediately on Feb. 2022) - they wouldn't be attacking Russia but simply combating invading Russian forces in a sovereign country, that requested their military assistance.

And in this combat Russia would use, for starters, tactical nukes. And as NATO forces, in fact, don't have tactical nukes worth mentioning (B61 can't be seriously counted) those NATO forces would be definitely defeated.

 

[M14 Shooter]

As NATO attacked Russia, Russia will respond, including direct attack agaisnt NATO countries. My bet, that after a relatively short period of a phoney war, Russia will attack US nuclear forces by well planned and well coordinated nuclear strike. If the USA ignore this opportunity during the period of the phoney war, it will be something like Pearl Harbour.

You have absolutely no idea what you;re talking about.

 

[Zavulon]

You have absolutely no idea what you;re talking about.

Really? Do you?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Really?

Unquestionably.

 

[Zavulon]

Unquestionably.

Is your faith that strong?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Plain lie. There was alliance Czechoslovakia-France-Soviet Union-United Kingdom that was ready to stay against Germany. And the first Hitler's attempt to take Sudets diplomatically failed because of the demonstration of decisivness of all members of the alliance. And it took special efforts from the UK to destroy already existing "continental alliance" (especially in the part France-Soviet Union) and then feed to Germany Czechoslovakia and after it - Poland and France. And yes, before it the UK sabotaged French attempts to prevent remilitarizisation of Reins region and annexation of Austria.

Those Who Get Paid to Write History Are of the Same Ilk as Those Who Get Paid to Have Sex

They appeased Hitler not from cowardice as the warmongering Chickenhawks want us to believe, but because they saw him as a useful tool in destroying Russian Communism. Only when he made a deal with Stalin to partition Poland did they realize he was a megalomaniac who would attack Western Europe and the United States next.

 

[bugs]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/19/europe/ukraine-russia-atacms-biden-strike-intl/index.html

6 misses launched. After putins warnings, where does this lead?

Why is biden escalating this close to a new administration?

THEY Want a Nuclear war?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Really? Do you?

Globalist Grammar

He does—in Sorosese. Most posts on the Netrix parrot whatever a selected birdcage-owner trains his pets to post.

 

[Zavulon]

Globalist Grammar

He does—in Sorosese. Most posts on the Netrix parrot whatever a selected birdcage-owner trains his pets to post.

Sounds like a kind of destructive cult for me.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Technically Moscow now has every right to to do anything it chooses on your American main land .
Literally give you a Nuclear breakfast .
But they will not .

Because dear Uncle P and his closest colleagues have been so much smarter than NATO throughout, I shall watch their next moves with keen anticipation .

I would , for example , consider obliterating Independence Square in Kyiv which would be like putting a bullet into the heart of every Ukrainian person .It would even sadden me --- lovely spot .
But it would warn the Mad Midget that everything following would be " on his head" if he ever fired one more missile onto Federation territory .

Actually it doesn’t or the USA would have had every right to attack Russia/USSR for supplying all the weapons, training and “advisors” in both the Korean and Vietnamese wars, or Iran for supplying troops, trainers and advanced IEDs and other weapons used by the Iraqi and Afghanistan resistance to kill Americans.

As for your example, Putin has been targeting exclusively civilian targets ever since his invasion failed. He has no grounds to complain when his victims target legitimate military targets inside his country. At least the Ukrainians aren’t targeting civilian hospitals, malls and apartment buildings like Putin has been doing.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Well Trump could openly state that they will reverse these decisions and cease all support for Ukraine that could, might, stave off a harsh reaction from Russia, if Trump remains silent on this then Russia will naturally have no reason to trust Trump.

Trump's talked the talk for years about this and NATO, well nothing stops him from holding a press conference today and making his position crystal clear and saying "**** you" to Biden, if Trump actually does this, the right thing, I'll go so far as to say I have some respect for him and that is not something I say lightly.

So to all the MAGATS here, why has Trump not held a press conference? not stated his disapproval of the ATACMS decisions and not made it clear to the world that his administration will be reversing the US position starting Jan 20 ? why...why...the silence from Trump...why is he pissing around with silliness like Gaetz and RFK?

Instead we get more reports of more appointments like today's mention of Howard Lutnick, and an impending visit to SpaceX to watch a ******* rocket launch, I mean is Trump so stupid he can't see how important it is to take a public and stern stance on this immediately?

Trump doesn’t want to close out any avenues for diplomacy. If he puts the skids to Ukraine, Putin will just harden his stance and demand more concessions to end the war. This way Trump retains the ability to threaten Putin with massive increases in US support for Ukraine if Putin isn’t reasonable at the negotiation table.

I’m not sure that any solution acceptable to Putin will be acceptable to the Ukrainians. After all, they have very recent experience with giving up territory for peace and having the Russians just come back for more territory. They know from experience that Putin won’t keep any agreements any longer than they benefit him. I’m afraid that the only two ways this war ends is with either a total defeat of Russia that restores the pre-2000 Ukrainian borders, or the death of Putin.