Ukraine in NATO?!

[Ringo]

The 1991 statement was Jim Baker under Papa Bush. It was a statement, not a formal Treaty. If you want a more formal Treaty look up the Budapest Memorandum that everyone signed, even Russia.

And no one ratified that agreement

 

[AntonToo]

Putin is 71, and just got elected to another 6-year term.
His army is shit, his "soldiers" are fleeing Russia to avoid the draft.
His "economy" is about the size of Italy's.
Yes he should cut his losses, take Crimea and Donbas and call it a win.

Thats a nice strory but Putin's regime fully controls the propaganda nerratives in Russia, is willing to send his people into a meat grinder for small territorial gains, and has now got war production in full gear while the West can be barely bothered.

Republicans have been holding up aid to Ukraine for how long now?

We are talking about absolute minimum millitary support spending and America can't even get that done anymore.

 

[Red Front]

These liberals hate Russia because there aren't any rainbow flags flying over the Kremlin. No gay pride parades, no homosexuals adopting children, no puberty blockers, no public trans-restrooms or trans-"women" using real women's public restrooms. That's really why they hate Russia so much. Russia is a socially conservative culture that has zero tolerance for all of this Western liberal lunacy. Most Russians don't want to emasculate all of their men, and they don't see masculinity as toxic. Russian women actually want to get married and have kids, they want to raise children and keep the home. Western liberal, feminists are repulsed by everything traditional and wholesome.

That's the only real reason liberals have such rancor and contempt for Russia. Ukraine will never join NATO without WW3. Russia has finally put its foot down and has declared that part of the world, within its sphere of influence and national interest. America has done the same thing in the Western hemisphere, especially on the American continent. We just don't want to let Russia have any influence anywhere, it's as if Russia was here on the American continent. building military bases and spreading a Russian military alliance with Latin America. We wouldn't allow it. We'd be at war with Russia if the Russians were foolish enough to do that.

US foreign policy towards Russia is absolutely hypocritical. It completely ignores the golden rule. Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you. It's that simple. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. If American power elites and their cronies in the US Congress, with their 700 military installations around the world, think they have the moral high ground when they "poke the bear" with NATO, forcing all life on this planet to the brink of extinction, on the very edge of oblivion, they're delusional and stupid.

 

[AntonToo]

These liberals hate Russia because there aren't any rainbow flags flying over the Kremlin. No gay pride parades, no homosexuals adopting children, no puberty blockers, no public trans-restrooms or trans-"women" using real women's public restrooms. That's really why they hate Russia so much.

No dummy, Russia is "hated" for it's corrupt, repressive fascist governing and brutal invasions of other countries.

Garden veriety culture wars is just something Kremlin pumps brainwashed commie dupes like you full of, so you don't question why most of the developed world looks down on your backward czarist autocracy.

In North Korea they too often talk about their superior morality...as their brainwashed, repressed population lives in poverty. This is where Russia is headed if it's people don't wake the fuck up.

 

[AntonToo]

Ukraine will never join NATO without WW3.

Quoted to be made fun of in about 3-5 years.

 

[kyzr]

That's a nice story but Putin's regime fully controls the propaganda nerratives in Russia, is willing to send his people into a meat grinder for small territorial gains, and has now got war production in full gear while the West can be barely bothered.
Republicans have been holding up aid to Ukraine for how long now?
We are talking about absolute minimum military support spending and America can't even get that done anymore.

Putin thought he'd take Kiev in 7-days. Its been 3-years and Putin is running out of men to throw into the meat grinder.
The US nd EU have way more of everything than Putin has.

 

[kyzr]

That's the only real reason liberals have such rancor and contempt for Russia. Ukraine will never join NATO without WW3. Russia has finally put its foot down and has declared that part of the world, within its sphere of influence and national interest. America has done the same thing in the Western hemisphere, especially on the American continent. We just don't want to let Russia have any influence anywhere, it's as if Russia was here on the American continent. building military bases and spreading a Russian military alliance with Latin America. We wouldn't allow it. We'd be at war with Russia if the Russians were foolish enough to do that.

US foreign policy towards Russia is absolutely hypocritical. It completely ignores the golden rule. Don't do unto others what you don't want done to you. It's that simple. What's good for the goose, is good for the gander. If American power elites and their cronies in the US Congress, with their 700 military installations around the world, think they have the moral high ground when they "poke the bear" with NATO, forcing all life on this planet to the brink of extinction, on the very edge of oblivion, they're delusional and stupid.

1. No one wants WW3, especially China. Russia is no match for NATO and they know it. So who else in the world is on Russia's side?

2. US foreign policy is solid. We support democracies and oppose dictatorships.

 

[AntonToo]

Putin thought he'd take Kiev in 7-days. Its been 3-years and Putin is running out of men to throw into the meat grinder.
The US nd EU have way more of everything than Putin has.

Thats wishful thinking.

Russia is not running out of ignorant, incarcerated and indebted people looking to get a clean slate by "defending Russia" in Ukraine. At least not anytime soon.

At the going rate of about ~800 a day, it will take 2+ years of non-stop war for them to hit 1 million killed and disabled out of about 30 million prime aged men.

Huge casualties like that are fully managable for a totalitarian regime's propaganda machinery. Most Russians wouldn't even know about them.

 

[Red Front]

1. No one wants WW3, especially China. Russia is no match for NATO and they know it. So who else in the world is on Russia's side?

2. US foreign policy is solid. We support democracies and oppose dictatorships.

You're obviously delusional. We've supported the worst tyrannical regimes in the world, from Indonesia to Latin America, in the last 70 years. We've started wars to support those dictators. You're ignorant of history and even what we're doing now. Is Saudi Arabia, the nation that beheads people for witchcraft and having an ounce of marijuana, not a tyrannical, absolute monarchal regime? Imposing brutal economic sanctions upon developing nations has devastating consequences for poor, working-class people. Children suffer whenever we impose economic sanctions and start wars, we shouldn't be starting or sponsoring, much less fighting.

 

[whoisit]

Not our ally or concern. How about Russia in Canada or Cuba. America can't keep ruling the world, too many nukes now in the northern hemisphere.

 

[Red Front]

Thats wishful thinking.

Russia is not running out of ignorant, incarcerated and indebted people looking to get a clean slate by "defending Russia" in Ukraine. At least not anytime soon.

At the going rate of about ~800 a day, it will take 2+ years of non-stop war for them to hit 1 million killed and disabled out of about 30 million prime aged men.

Huge casualties like that are fully managable for a totalitarian regime's propaganda machinery. Most Russians wouldn't even know about them.

"800 a day" lol, yeah right.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Putin hates NATO, because NATO is clearly the only thing standing in the way of his expansionist desires. And that's it.

This has become crystal clear, I think. The maniac made nuclear threats to protect his conquerors. He violated the one principle that has stitched together a relative world peace for (ONLY) 79 years: Peace by M.A.D.

He has to go. Yesterday.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"800 a day" lol, yeah right.

355,000 Russian casualties estimated, since the war began.

That's about 980/day.

So yeah, he was a bit short.

 

[Red Front]

355,000 Russian casualties estimated, since the war began.

That's about 980/day.

So yeah, he was a bit short.

Not even close, just silly Western stats, designed to crap on Russia.

 

[Red Front]

Putin hates NATO, because NATO is clearly the only thing standing in the way of his expansionist desires. And that's it.

This has become crystal clear, I think. The maniac made nuclear threats to protect his conquerors. He violated the one principle that has stitched together a relative world peace for (ONLY) 79 years: Peace by M.A.D.

He has to go. Yesterday.

There's zero evidence that Russia wants to expand to the West. It wasn't the case in the Cold War and it's not the case now either. What Russia doesn't want is for Ukraine to become a launching pad for NATO. A Western bulwark against Russian interests in the region. If Russia was spreading a military alliance that it leads and funds throughout Latin America, the United States wouldn't allow it. We would be at war with Latin America, if countries south of the Rio Grande were all in bed with Putin. We wouldn't allow Russia to turn Mexico into a Russian military base. I, a socialist, with warm feelings toward Russia, would be against Russia if they ever tried that. I would be like; "No Russian military bases in Mexico, no way are you nuts!?!?"

The US via NATO, are the ones poking the bear. Starting trouble on Russia's border and not recognizing that Russia has regional interests in Eastern Europe. That's their neighborhood, just like the Western Hemisphere (i.e. the American continent) is our neighborhood. We wouldn't allow Russia to do to us here on our continent, what we are doing to them, on theirs.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Red Front works for Pravda and consults at the Russian Troll Factory in Petersburg.

 

[Red Front]

Red Front works for Pravda and consults at the Russian Troll Factory in Petersburg.

And if that were the case, it would be irrelevant. Arguments stand or fall on their own merits, not on who's arguing them. Ad hominums are the refuge of weak minds.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not even close, just silly Western stats, designed to crap on Russia.

Sure. The Western leaders all got together and agreed to lie.

You would believe such nonsense, because that is precisely what Putin does in Russia. It's why you so easily believe it to be true of the rest of the world, at all times. In this way, your guy is "No worse than the rest of them".

 

[kyzr]

Thats wishful thinking.
Russia is not running out of ignorant, incarcerated and indebted people looking to get a clean slate by "defending Russia" in Ukraine. At least not anytime soon.
At the going rate of about ~800 a day, it will take 2+ years of non-stop war for them to hit 1 million killed and disabled out of about 30 million prime aged men.
Huge casualties like that are fully manageable for a totalitarian regime's propaganda machinery. Most Russians wouldn't even know about them.

You must be thinking about WW2, when the Russians sent wave after wave of men at the German machine guns until they overheated and the Russians won the battle.
In Ukraine the term "Pyrrhic Victory" comes to mind, as well as the term stalemate.
Ukraine has a lot of people too.
Putin needs to learn Ukraine is unattainable, cut your losses, call it a win.

 

[kyzr]

You're obviously delusional. We've supported the worst tyrannical regimes in the world, from Indonesia to Latin America, in the last 70 years. We've started wars to support those dictators. You're ignorant of history and even what we're doing now. Is Saudi Arabia, the nation that beheads people for witchcraft and having an ounce of marijuana, not a tyrannical, absolute monarchal regime? Imposing brutal economic sanctions upon developing nations has devastating consequences for poor, working-class people. Children suffer whenever we impose economic sanctions and start wars, we shouldn't be starting or sponsoring, much less fighting.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Saddam is gone.
Osama is gone.
Maduro is still there, no clue why.
Africa is a mess, always was.
We messed up making China an economic power
We messed up letting Putin take control of Russia
Indonesia? not on my radar
The Sauds buy $billions of US weapons, they can behead whoever they want
Israel has always been more trouble than its worth

So you're in charge of the CIA, what is your game plan?