UKLFI - The face of Zionism

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ha. No. The implication being that there mustn't be one law for Jews and a different law for everyone else. Not asking for special, indeed asking just the opposite - that the law applies equally to all.

The only place I know of where there's "one law for Jews and a different law for everyone else" is inside Israel.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I hear your point but I can't sympathize with any suggestions that the holocaust isn't separate and exclusive of other genocides.

It's worth pondering that at some point, I don't know that it makes sense to speak of "the" holocaust and "all the other" holocausts.

The Belgian congo saw perhaps 15 million dead because of colonization and brutality by the colonizers.

How many have even heard of the Californian genocide? We have many including the Armenian, Greek genocide, Holodomor, Romani, Serb etc.

Zionism has a track record of insidiously exploiting the Holocaust, there are even books about it The Holocaust Industry, so singling it out as more significant than other historic "holocausts" serves the militant nationalists agenda which is to grant Israel special exemptions from the things we all expect in a society.

Time and again the Holocaust is raised when Israel attempts to frame its political system or its racist rules, we are asked to "understand" the nature of the national tragedy and thus excuse conduct we'd never accept in any society we ourselves live in. Zionist Israel uses the Holocaust as their definition of genocide in such a way that whatever they do to Palestinians is never genocide because there are no gas chambers, so no genocide.

Most important too is the way that there was no Nakba, this is a holocaust that the Israelis deny, so by making the Nazi genocide the benchmark, then again they can deny there was a Nakba, voila - the Zionists are expert holocaust deniers. Zionists only care about holocaust denial if someone is denying the Nazi holocaust, anything else they couldn't care less, I don't think that's right.

Other than that, I can accept the point made that they are an evil that needs to be eliminated.

I hope that the elimination of the evil can be in reform to a more normal and acceptable philosophy, as opposed to violent persuasion.

Times are changing, we are basically watching genocide live, 24/7, its now like watching a sport, the latest score being how many babies died or how many UN workers were killed or how many doctors were arrested and tortured. The system has failed, the UN was created specifically to prevent what is taking place in Palestine and it is useless - this is what the Palestinians have recognized for a hundred years, nobody really is going to help them and so terrorist operations like Hamas Oct 7th become more likely.

 

[Donald H]

It's worth pondering that at some point, I don't know that it makes sense to speak of "the" holocaust and "all the other" holocausts.

The Belgian congo saw perhaps 15 million dead because of colonization and brutality by the colonizers.

How many have even heard of the Californian genocide? We have many including the Armenian, Greek genocide, Holodomor, Romani, Serb etc.

Zionism has a track record of insidiously exploiting the Holocaust, there are even books about it The Holocaust Industry, so singling it out as more significant than other historic "holocausts" serves the militant nationalists agenda which is to grant Israel special exemptions from the things we all expect in a society.

Time and again the Holocaust is raised when Israel attempts to frame its political system or its racist rules, we are asked to "understand" the nature of the national tragedy and thus excuse conduct we'd never accept in any society we ourselves live in. Zionist Israel uses the Holocaust as their definition of genocide in such a way that whatever they do to Palestinians is never genocide because there are no gas chambers, so no genocide.

Most important too is the way that there was no Nakba, this is a holocaust that the Israelis deny, so by making the Nazi genocide the benchmark, then again they can deny there was a Nakba, voila - the Zionists are expert holocaust deniers. Zionists only care about holocaust denial if someone is denying the Nazi holocaust, anything else they couldn't care less, I don't think that's right.



Times are changing, we are basically watching genocide live, 24/7, its now like watching a sport, the latest score being how many babies died or how many UN workers were killed or how many doctors were arrested and tortured. The system has failed, the UN was created specifically to prevent what is taking place in Palestine and it is useless - this is what the Palestinians have recognized for a hundred years, nobody really is going to help them and so terrorist operations like Hamas Oct 7th become more likely.

I've underestimated you. I didn't expect to hear from any rational and intelligent person on this board. Trusting that you have written all that yourself?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I've underestimated you. I didn't expect to hear from any rational and intelligent person on this board. Trusting that you have written all that yourself?

Yes, it's a little lengthy though, that's a bad tendency I have.

 

[Donald H]

Yes, it's a little lengthy though, that's a bad tendency I have.

No more lengthy than was necessary in my opinion!

No genocide can be excused or justified but perhaps something will be gained in the end. It has been responsible for other nations to challenge the Zionist regime's power to slaughter innocents at will in the ME conflicts.

It's already being put to the test, but propaganda efforts can keep it hidden for quite a while yet!

Let's hope the arrogance of that regime won't lead the world into nuclear war? I'm confident that America will do all it can to prevent that, covertly if not obvious. No plans can come to fruition in a nuclear situation.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

No more lengthy than was necessary in my opinion!

No genocide can be excused or justified but perhaps something will be gained in the end. It has been responsible for other nations to challenge the Zionist regime's power to slaughter innocents at will in the ME conflicts.

It's already being put to the test, but propaganda efforts can keep it hidden for quite a while yet!

Let's hope the arrogance of that regime won't lead the world into nuclear war? I'm confident that America will do all it can to prevent that, covertly if not obvious. No plans can come to fruition in a nuclear situation.

My fear is that the regime is truly unhinged, the things that are routinely said by the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich make it clear that the people leading Israel have very different morals and values to most of the human race.

Israel has nuclear weapons and it could potentially bomb Iran with these, the nature of the regime proves that they will do things that most people consider off the table as options. Bombing schools, hospital, bombing ambulances, shooting anyone they want, destroying water systems, announcing more settlements in the West Bank.

In short, they are reckless and if they felt it was a matter of the state's existence they would go nuclear, the deranged bastards in the Knesset are precisely the kinds of maniacs that would use nuclear weapons and nobody could do anything them. Once they use a nuke on Iran, no state in the region will dare threaten Israel, seriously, this has kept me awake an nights, it strikes me as more plausible than any other potential scenario for nuclear weapons including Ukraine.

 

[Shusha]

The only place I know of where there's "one law for Jews and a different law for everyone else" is inside Israel.

Yes, I'm aware you refuse to study law and legal procedures and instead resort to, "but the UN said" and "the international community said". This is the problem. The law is not a popularity contest.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, I'm aware you refuse to study law and legal procedures and instead resort to, "but the UN said" and "the international community said". This is the problem. The law is not a popularity contest.

The law is always interpreted, one cannot say "Look at our wonderful egalitarian laws" when the interpretation of that law in a real case isn't known until the end of the case. What goes on inside Israel is the definitive guide to how Israel often interprets laws. For example laws about getting building permits, yes there are laws stated for this yet in practice Jews can get permits (if they even bother to seek them) much more easily than Palestinians and so some Palestinians will build without a permit. These cases though are cited by the apologists as "see we have Palestinian settlers too, building illegally" in a weak attempt to excuse the state racism which is on record for disproportionately denying permits to non-Jews.

Children get "arrested" and detained and when tried are tried in secret under a military court where evidence can be and usually is "secret" this behavior is an interpretation of anti-terrorism laws, if you read those laws they might seem reasonable enough but their application is quite a different matter altogether.

Here's one random article, anyone can search Google for simply "children tried in Israel" and see page after page of statistics, case histories, reports and so on.

How Israel violates international law to detain minors under military law​

An examination of available statistics and credible reports reveals a pattern of Israel detaining and prosecuting a staggering number of minors over the decades.

Since 1967, Palestinian children in the occupied West Bank have been subject to Israeli military law, making them the only minors in the world consistently prosecuted in military courts.

Remarkably, Israel is the only country systematically employing military court systems to prosecute children.

So studying law is not just a matter of reading statues but of seeing how the state interprets and applies those statutes, and you must stop conflating these.

These desperate attempts at Zionist apologetics are doomed to failure, there are voices you cannot silence in this struggle for an entire people's freedom and one of those is mine.

 

[Shusha]

So studying law is not just a matter of reading statues but of seeing how the state interprets and applies those statutes, and you must stop conflating these.

I assure you I am not conflating the two.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I assure you I am not conflating the two.

But you do, you often talk about how Israel "has laws that prevent that" or "has laws that guarantee the right" without acknowledging that in the real world, the outcomes of cases, disputes and trials often has a clear prejudicial element that in practice amounts to preferential treatment for Jews.

You speak only of the statues and never about their day to day application and impact.

Israel today has over two hundred and forty non-Jewish children in detention, do you know how many Jewish children it has in detention?

This a ten year old story in Haaretz:

IDF Soldiers Detain Five-year-old Palestinian for Stone-throwing in Hebron

 

[Shusha]

Israel today has over two hundred and forty non-Jewish children in detention, do you know how many Jewish children it has in detention?

Youth detention in Israel is about 8% of total crime, I believe. Yes, there is disparity in the incarceration rate of Arab Israeli youth compared to Jewish Israeli youth (similar to disparities in the US).

 

[Shusha]

But you do, you often talk about how Israel "has laws that prevent that" or "has laws that guarantee the right" without acknowledging that in the real world, the outcomes of cases, disputes and trials often has a clear prejudicial element that in practice amounts to preferential treatment for Jews.

On the contrary, I often acknowledge that discrimination exists in Israel, as it does elsewhere.

 

[Lisa558]

Which is why the left tacitly and not so tacitly supports this:



View attachment 1009249

I posted about that in another thread, and 1) one liberal condemned me for making Muslims look bad by pointing out it was a Muslim illegal who was the terrorist, and 2) another liberal said it was the Jews’ fault for “making” Muslims into terrorists

Summary: if a Muslim plans a terrorist attack agaimst Jews, you can expect leftists to respond by defending Muslims and blaming Jews.

 

[Ropey]

Summary: if a Muslim plans a terrorist attack agaimst Jews, you can expect leftists to respond by defending Muslims and blaming Jews.

ofc

Pagans gotta pagan.

 

[rylah]

My fear is that the regime is truly unhinged, the things that are routinely said by the likes of Ben-Gvir and Smotrich make it clear that the people leading Israel have very different morals and values to most of the human race.

Israel has nuclear weapons and it could potentially bomb Iran with these, the nature of the regime proves that they will do things that most people consider off the table as options. Bombing schools, hospital, bombing ambulances, shooting anyone they want, destroying water systems, announcing more settlements in the West Bank.

In short, they are reckless and if they felt it was a matter of the state's existence they would go nuclear, the deranged bastards in the Knesset are precisely the kinds of maniacs that would use nuclear weapons and nobody could do anything them. Once they use a nuke on Iran, no state in the region will dare threaten Israel, seriously, this has kept me awake an nights, it strikes me as more plausible than any other potential scenario for nuclear weapons including Ukraine.

And that fear is justified, because Religious-Zionism naturally poses an ideological threat to both Islamism and the Radical-Left.

The current US admin and the Media framing of Religious-Zionism in general, and MK Ben-Gvir with MK Smotrich,
is exactly because of the potential for broader appeal to the more conservative and traditionally leaning majority,
including the young Orthodox Jews, and specifically the younger Muslim voters.

This appeal for an alternative vision rooted in values is not only in Israel,
and no less due to the war, relevant to Western and Arab leaders.

 

[Stryder50]

If the OP and theme of this thread sound familiar, it's because it started over a century ago. We now see the new, revised and updated variation.
...
The Protocols of the Elders of Zionhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion#cite_note-2[c] is a fabricated text purporting to detail a Jewish plot for global domination. Largely plagiarized from several earlier sources, it was first published in Imperial Russia in 1903, translated into multiple languages, and disseminated internationally in the early part of the 20th century. It played a key part in popularizing belief in an international Jewish conspiracy.
....

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org