UFOs: I want to go on record right now.

[Flopper]

Despite the recent sightings, and despite the fact that Congress will gather to discuss UFOs, I will state right now that we are NOT being visited by alien spacecraft or alien beings. Are there UFOs? Have people reported seeing UFOs? Yes.

A UFO, remember, is any flying craft that you cannot identify. So yeah, there are UFOs. They haven't been identified but that does not mean they are from some alien civilization. An airplane flying overhead would be an unidentified flying object to some isolated tribe of humans who have never had contact with the outside world. Eventually we will identify what people report seeing now, unless of course they are lying.

We know that the laws of physics exist throughout the universe. Examinations of the furthest galaxies can be examined and have shown to be following the same laws of physics. thus, we can reasonably assume that, just as here, nothing can exceed the speed of light. If you are going to come at me with "worm holes", know that they guy who came up with the theory, Stephen Hawking, changed his mind on them before his death.

The distances are too great, and the number of possible sentient beings is too small.

It hasn't happened we haven't been visited, and it likely never will.

UFO stories are fun as they stir the imagination but the likelihood that they are alien visitors is very slim. First because the nearest planet that could support creatures similar to humans is 24 trillion miles away. That means the alien visitors would be traveling in something near the speed of light. If they really were interested in contacting us, one would think they would have tried to communicate with us before just showing up our door step. Also, if they were so advanced, then what would they have to gain by coming here?

 

[PredFan]

Interesting idea that for some unimaginable reason these " people" , perhaps millions of years ahead of us technologically, have not found alternatives to present propulsion ideas . When all of our ideas are based on physics that is only seconds old in comparison . So , try and remember that so called present theories are actually only just best working hypotheses at this point in time.You are falling into the standard trap of basing the future on present working principles and therefore limiting vision and change .Common error.

I have not dismissed that at all. However, we do know that the Laws of Physics appear to apply all over the universe. We can (albeit sometimes "eventually") explain phenomena seen at some of the furthest reaches of the universe. We use the known laws of physics to do that.

You make a common error that many proponents of alien visitation make. You use the fact that we don't know the answers to everything as proof of your claim.

I simply post what is known and I fully admit that I extrapolate from there, but so far, the absolute lack of evidence that we have been visited supports my hypothesis.

It's been over a year now since I posted the OP here. Still, not a shred of actual evidence.

 

[PredFan]

Einstein-Rosen bridge, aka wormhole.

Only a theory and one that involves a Black Hole. No life form would survive or escape it.

 

[PredFan]

Only if your perspective of time is as an observer on earth.

If you are on a ship that travels AT the EXACT SPEED OF LIGHT, time stands still, FOR YOU.

At light speed, you can reach ANY POINT IN THE UNIVERSE INSTANTLY

It will only seem like instant for YOU, but it will still actually take hundreds of millions or billions of years to actually get there.

 

[PredFan]

Indeed, Cougarbear offered a brilliant argument. You simply cannot counter it so you attempt to toss it out. Very weak of you.

Apples compare exceedingly well to oranges as follow:

1. Both are fruits.
2. Both grow on trees, in the United States.
3. Both are roughly spherical and a few inches in diameter.
4. Both are delicious and healthy.
5. Both are inexpensive and commonly found and eaten.
6. One clever chemist did a spectrographic analysis of each and they are extremely close.
Other than that.......

Leftist-atheists incessantly DEMAND "proof" of God. Now you try to negate these constant harassing lies
demanding "proof of God." Many books have been written, providing abundant evidence. It does not go away
simply because you Leftist atheists reject it wantonly. Eighty-five percent of Nobel Laureates are believers, identifying
as Christians or Jews. Only a handful identify themselves as atheists.
That is compelling statistical evidence, but not on a par with the Anthropic Principle much less the insuperable statistics
of naturalistic polypeptide synthesis, which clearly renders naturalism utterly impossible.

I don't need to counter it. It is, as I accurately pointed out, irrelevant to the discussion. You and he both seem to have reading difficulties.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

It will only seem like instant for YOU, but it will still actually take hundreds of millions or billions of years to actually get there.

Not "still." Your perspective on the spaceship is equally valid. It's the nature of time

 

[PredFan]

UFO stories are fun as they stir the imagination but the likelihood that they are alien visitors is very slim. First because the nearest planet that could support creatures similar to humans is 24 trillion miles away. That means the alien visitors would be traveling in something near the speed of light. If they really were interested in contacting us, one would think they would have tried to communicate with us before just showing up our door step. Also, if they were so advanced, then what would they have to gain by coming here?

The idea of "crashed" spaceships also makes me laugh. Here this advanced civilization has been able to figure out how to travel astonishing distances despite all the hazards of doing so, but for some reason their craft cannot handle atmosphere without breaking down. Is it conceivable that this advanced civilization couldn't figure out that we had an atmosphere? Is it that they did know but the equipment they had that could flip a spaceship across the far reaches of the galaxy, can't handle windshear, weather, or atmospheric pressure?

Cracks me up.

 

[Flopper]

I have not dismissed that at all. However, we do know that the Laws of Physics appear to apply all over the universe. We can (albeit sometimes "eventually") explain phenomena seen at some of the furthest reaches of the universe. We use the known laws of physics to do that.

You make a common error that many proponents of alien visitation make. You use the fact that we don't know the answers to everything as proof of your claim.

I simply post what is known and I fully admit that I extrapolate from there, but so far, the absolute lack of evidence that we have been visited supports my hypothesis.

It's been over a year now since I posted the OP here. Still, not a shred of actual evidence.

True, for many centuries man has looked to magical or just strange beings for the explanation of the unexplainable.

It is estimated that there are 200 billion trillion stars that exist in the universe and most of those stars have planets orbiting them. Knowing that the universe is homogenous and isotropic, that is made of the same stuff and having the same properties it seems very likely that intelligent life is not confined to this tiny spec in the universe which will exist only a tiny interval in the existence of the universe.

Although it may be satisfying to know we are probably not alone, two factors, distance and time make it very unlike that there are aliens among us or have ever visited our planet or ever will. With the lifespan of the universe in the millions of billions of years, there may well be instances of intelligent life appearing and disappearing during those trillions of years separated from Earth by hundreds or millions, of lightyears.

The likelihood that intelligent beings would happen to exist during the small sliver of time we exist and they would have the interest and the capability of crossing vast amounts of space and arriving on Earth out of the trillions of planets and at just the right time in our limited existence that we would recognize and understand who they are seems very ,very unlikely.

Yet, I will still watch Star Trek, and continue to read space science fiction, even thou I know it is all very unlikely.

 

[PredFan]

True, for many centuries man has looked to magical or just strange beings for the explanation of the unexplainable.

It is estimated that there are 200 billion trillion stars that exist in the universe and most of those stars have planets orbiting them. Knowing that the universe is homogenous and isotropic, that is made of the same stuff and having the same properties it seems very likely that intelligent life is not confined to this tiny spec in the universe which will exist only a tiny interval in the existence of the universe.

Although it may be satisfying to know we are probably not alone, two factors, distance and time make it very unlike that there are aliens among us or have ever visited our planet or ever will. With the lifespan of the universe in the millions of billions of years, there may well be instances of intelligent life appearing and disappearing during those trillions of years separated from Earth by hundreds or millions, of lightyears.

The likelihood that intelligent beings would happen to exist during the small sliver of time we exist and they would have the interest and the capability of crossing vast amounts of space and arriving on Earth out of the trillions of planets and at just the right time in our limited existence that we would recognize and understand who they are seems very ,very unlikely.

Yet, I will still watch Star Trek, and continue to read space science fiction, even thou I know it is all very unlikely.

Our future in space, imo, is very very likely to be similar to what is shown in the TV Series "The Expanse" (minus the alien stuff). I can see us colonizing and spreading out throughout our solar syatem, It's also very likely that any other inteligent life forms share a similar future.

"The Expanse" is, IMO the best SciFi ever shown on TV.

 

[Kruska]

The idea of "crashed" spaceships also makes me laugh. Here this advanced civilization has been able to figure out how to travel astonishing distances despite all the hazards of doing so, but for some reason their craft cannot handle atmosphere without breaking down. Is it conceivable that this advanced civilization couldn't figure out that we had an atmosphere? Is it that they did know but the equipment they had that could flip a spaceship across the far reaches of the galaxy, can't handle windshear, weather, or atmospheric pressure?

Cracks me up.

Well if a today's earthly spacecraft - aka capsule would land on a planet housing e.g. a Homo-Erectus like developed species, - they wouldn't even understand as to what actually crash-landed - whilst at e.g. NASA they will be blaming each other for technical failures, even though us being 300,000 years ahead of them. As such to out-rule an alien craft from crashing due to technical failure or "Alien error" - doesn't really hold up.

My personal guess is that a species so advanced as to reach our planet -without us even being able to point out/find a planet housing an alien like humanoid lifeforms, would possess a technology that simply ain't feasible to us, therefore very likely not visible and detectable aka recognizable to us.

Just as if one would hand out an Omega Speed-master wristwatch to a Peking Man - without explanation. He might appreciate it as a jewelry item, or throw it away in fear of getting possessed by evil spirits, and that's it. He simply couldn't comprehend it to be a watch, aka a device to tell time.

Not to mention if one would (when these Peking man all sleep) place a fully fueled up Cessna 172 with ignition key - next to their cave. Probably they would all run away because they don't like this never moving birdlike object, or keep throwing stones at it for weeks and years, defending their cave.

 

[PredFan]

Well if a today's earthly spacecraft - aka capsule would land on a planet housing e.g. a Homo-Erectus like developed species, - they wouldn't even understand as to what actually crash-landed - whilst at e.g. NASA they will be blaming each other for technical failures, even though us being 300,000 years ahead of them. As such to out-rule an alien craft from crashing due to technical failure or "Alien error" - doesn't really hold up.

You can't really make that kind of comparison. Us landing on the moon, for instance, wouldn't require anything so technical as to break the laws of physics., As far back technologically we were back then, we did not crash on the moon. We occasionally had glitches but we also had redundant systems. The understanding of the indiginous life forms isn't really relevant.

My personal guess is that a species so advanced as to reach our planet -without us even being able to point out/find a planet housing an alien like humanoid lifeforms, would possess a technology that simply ain't feasible to us, therefore very likely not visible and detectable aka recognizable to us.

Just as if one would hand out an Omega Speed-master wristwatch to a Peking Man - without explanation. He might appreciate it as a jewelry item, or throw it away in fear of getting possessed by evil spirits, and that's it. He simply couldn't comprehend it to be a watch, aka a device to tell time.

Not to mention if one would (when these Peking man all sleep) place a fully fueled up Cessna 172 with ignition key - next to their cave. Probably they would all run away because they don't like this never moving birdlike object, or keep throwing stones at it for weeks and years, defending their cave.

Really not relative to the fact that the technology that is able to defy the laws of physics but can't handle our atmosphere or it's hazards doesn't depend on the observer.

 

[Flopper]

Our future in space, imo, is very very likely to be similar to what is shown in the TV Series "The Expanse" (minus the alien stuff). I can see us colonizing and spreading out throughout our solar syatem, It's also very likely that any other inteligent life forms share a similar future.

"The Expanse" is, IMO the best SciFi ever shown on TV.

I think it is likely we will have a permanent present on the Moon and Mars in less than 50 years. However, whether it expand pass being just a scientific research station depends on what would make people other than scientist want to go there.

Using current technology, a trip to Mars would occur only when planets are at their closest point. Even then the trip would take 7 to 9 months. Once there the stay would be 21 months till Mars was close enough to return. Unlike Sci-Fi, movies, space travel is just plain boring most of the time. NASA has to create tasks for crews in order to keep them sane. So it is not likely a trip to Mars will replace a trip to Disney World anytime soon. Under these conditions, I doubt that anyone other than the very wealthy and scientists would be going to Mars.

Most people would go to Mars or other planets only for a significant commercial ventures. To create permanent major colonies on planets, it would have come with much faster space vehicles with the ability to carry large loads economically. I expect, that will be longer than 50 years. Secondly, we are going to have to find something up there that we don't have here, or something that makes sense to produce there rather than on earth. For example mining that is very damaging to the environment or minerals that are difficult to mine on earth.

While astronauts and scientist will explore the solar system and beyond. It will be commercial ventures that develops them.

 

[San Souci]

Despite the recent sightings, and despite the fact that Congress will gather to discuss UFOs, I will state right now that we are NOT being visited by alien spacecraft or alien beings. Are there UFOs? Have people reported seeing UFOs? Yes.

A UFO, remember, is any flying craft that you cannot identify. So yeah, there are UFOs. They haven't been identified but that does not mean they are from some alien civilization. An airplane flying overhead would be an unidentified flying object to some isolated tribe of humans who have never had contact with the outside world. Eventually we will identify what people report seeing now, unless of course they are lying.

We know that the laws of physics exist throughout the universe. Examinations of the furthest galaxies can be examined and have shown to be following the same laws of physics. thus, we can reasonably assume that, just as here, nothing can exceed the speed of light. If you are going to come at me with "worm holes", know that they guy who came up with the theory, Stephen Hawking, changed his mind on them before his death.

The distances are too great, and the number of possible sentient beings is too small.

It hasn't happened we haven't been visited, and it likely never will.

Ever heard of Voyager 1 and 2? Any chance aliens couldn't send out probes?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ever heard of Voyager 1 and 2? Any chance aliens couldn't send out probes?

Right.

Say there are 2 intelligent species per galaxy , and the average possible distance expected in the Milky Way between them were 25,000 light years.

Voyager speed: one light-year per 18,000 years.

25,000 * 18,000 = 450 million years for the trip. I hope their probes are a LOT faster. The good news is, if not, they will get their answer from us just 450,025,000 years later.

Now, it took roughly that long for the first multicellular creatures to evolve into the humans we have today.

It isn't much of a stretch in time to suggest intelligent species evolved 5 billion years before us, much less 450 million. But "therein lies the rub".

The coincidences necessary for such a species to have evolved so closely to us in time and space and to have sent their probes in our direction keep mounting.

We can only hope that the evolution of intelligent life is much more common that this.

 

[San Souci]

Right.

Say there are 2 intelligent species per galaxy , and the average possible distance expected in the Milky Way between them were 25,000 light years.

Voyager speed: one light-year per 18,000 years.

25,000 * 18,000 = 450 million years for the trip. I hope their probes are a LOT faster. The good news is, if not, they will get their answer from us just 450,025,000 years later.

Now, it took roughly that long for the first multicellular creatures to evolve into the humans we have today.

It isn't much of a stretch in time to suggest intelligent species evolved 5 billion years before us, much less 450 million. But "therein lies the rub".

The coincidences necessary for such a species to have evolved so closely to us in time and space and to have sent their probes in our direction keep mounting.

We can only hope that the evolution of intelligent life is much more common that this.

Voyager is just coasting. A Constant boost ship could reach 3/4 light speed in about 6 months. Take about 8 years to reach Alpha Centauri.

 

[Flopper]

You can't really make that kind of comparison. Us landing on the moon, for instance, wouldn't require anything so technical as to break the laws of physics., As far back technologically we were back then, we did not crash on the moon. We occasionally had glitches but we also had redundant systems. The understanding of the indiginous life forms isn't really relevant.



Really not relative to the fact that the technology that is able to defy the laws of physics but can't handle our atmosphere or it's hazards doesn't depend on the observer.

The generally accepted laws of physics are:

• The four laws of thermodynamics
• Newton's three laws of motion
• The law of universal gravitation
• Kepler's law
• Archimedes' principle
• Coulomb's law
• Gauss's law

These laws are supported by mathematics and are very unlikely to be broken but If we found out that a certain law didn't apply in a certain situation, we'd be very curious why, and we'd work hard to modify the law(s) until they were once again universal. More likely the theory of special relativity or general relativity would be challenged.

 

[Flopper]

Right.

Say there are 2 intelligent species per galaxy , and the average possible distance expected in the Milky Way between them were 25,000 light years.

Voyager speed: one light-year per 18,000 years.

25,000 * 18,000 = 450 million years for the trip. I hope their probes are a LOT faster. The good news is, if not, they will get their answer from us just 450,025,000 years later.

Now, it took roughly that long for the first multicellular creatures to evolve into the humans we have today.

It isn't much of a stretch in time to suggest intelligent species evolved 5 billion years before us, much less 450 million. But "therein lies the rub".

The coincidences necessary for such a species to have evolved so closely to us in time and space and to have sent their probes in our direction keep mounting.

We can only hope that the evolution of intelligent life is much more common that this.

The chances that Earth would be selected as a destination out of the billions of billion of planets is not good. And even if they picked us and began their voyage today, we probably wouldn't be around in 25,000 years to meet them.

 

[Flopper]

Voyager is just coasting. A Constant boost ship could reach 3/4 light speed in about 6 months. Take about 8 years to reach Alpha Centauri.

Voyager is traveling at 38,000mph. 3/4 light speed is 503 million mph. That would be quite a boost.

 

[Kruska]

You can't really make that kind of comparison. Us landing on the moon, for instance, wouldn't require anything so technical as to break the laws of physics., As far back technologically we were back then, we did not crash on the moon. We occasionally had glitches but we also had redundant systems. The understanding of the indiginous life forms isn't really relevant.

Really not relative to the fact that the technology that is able to defy the laws of physics but can't handle our atmosphere or it's hazards doesn't depend on the observer.

I wasn't talking about the moon, neither did I mention "crashed due to atmospheric issues" - also there is no proof whatsoever that "possible real UFO's" would be manned.
There are numerous unmanned earthly objects that have been send to Mars - and went incommunicado, due to technical issues, before and during arrival.

And again - even if, some alien species would be able to visit us during their weekend holidays - we very likely wouldn't be able to recognize them or their "transport devices".
Just as a Peking man simply wouldn't know as to what a wrist watch or a Cessna 172 is, or is about.

 

[PredFan]

I think it is likely we will have a permanent present on the Moon and Mars in less than 50 years. However, whether it expand pass being just a scientific research station depends on what would make people other than scientist want to go there.

Using current technology, a trip to Mars would occur only when planets are at their closest point. Even then the trip would take 7 to 9 months. Once there the stay would be 21 months till Mars was close enough to return. Unlike Sci-Fi, movies, space travel is just plain boring most of the time. NASA has to create tasks for crews in order to keep them sane. So it is not likely a trip to Mars will replace a trip to Disney World anytime soon. Under these conditions, I doubt that anyone other than the very wealthy and scientists would be going to Mars.

Most people would go to Mars or other planets only for a significant commercial ventures. To create permanent major colonies on planets, it would have come with much faster space vehicles with the ability to carry large loads economically. I expect, that will be longer than 50 years. Secondly, we are going to have to find something up there that we don't have here, or something that makes sense to produce there rather than on earth. For example mining that is very damaging to the environment or minerals that are difficult to mine on earth.

While astronauts and scientist will explore the solar system and beyond. It will be commercial ventures that develops them.

For commercial reasons is the best bet imo. I can see us mining and processing materials on Mars in 100 years at most.