U. of Chi. Professor and "Scientist" Wants to Block Sunlight to Cool Earth

[Crick]

Why is solar irradiance positive instead of negative if orbital forcing is such that the planet should be cooling?

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I just fucking explained it. Are you ACTUALLY that stupid?!?!?

 

[ding]

I just fucking explained it. Are you ACTUALLY that stupid?!?!?

I don't think you did. Can you say it in 25 words or less? If the planet's orbital forcing predicts the planet should be cooling (like you and the IPCC claim). It can't have a positive radiative forcing, dummy.

Why is solar irradiance positive instead of negative if orbital forcing is such that the planet should be cooling?

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[JBG]

Crick and Ding, can you briefly summarize your positions? As interesting as they are I'm not going to wade through almost 100 posts of back and forth?

 

[ding]

Crick and Ding, can you briefly summarize your positions? As interesting as they are I'm not going to wade through almost 100 posts of back and forth?

They have confused a natural warming trend for AGW. Is that brief enough?

 

[Crick]

Crick and Ding, can you briefly summarize your positions? As interesting as they are I'm not going to wade through almost 100 posts of back and forth?

Ding has contended that the glacial-interglacial cycle is driven by changes in ocean currents. He has found NO source supporting that statement. I hold the dominant position of mainstream science, that it is driven by Milankovitch orbital forcing. I have posted multiple sources making that specific statement. Ding is now trying to claim that he only contended ocean currents were responsible for "abrupt climate changes" such as D-O and Heinrich Events but his past posts show otherwise.

Ding has also contended that changes in ocean currents are responsible for the warming of the past 150 years and that the warming of added CO2 is inadequate to have produced the observed warming. He has repeatedly stated that the warming of the past 150 years is part of normal interglacial warming. Here also I hold the dominant position of mainstream science, that the warming of the past 150 years is almost entirely due to the greenhouse effect acting on human CO2 emissions.

 

[ding]

They have confused a natural warming trend for AGW.

I win the brevity contest!!!!

 

[Crick]

They have confused a natural warming trend for AGW.

I win the brevity contest!!!!

That is not what we have been arguing about. Once again, you LIE

 

[ding]

He has repeatedly stated that the warming of the past 150 years is part of normal interglacial warming.

I allow for 0.22C to 0.5C from an incremental 120 ppm of atmospheric CO2. I'm not a monster.

 

[ding]

That is not what we have been arguing about. Once again, you LIE

I wasn't recapping the disagreement. I was recapping my belief about AGW.

 

[ding]

He has found NO source supporting that statement.

There you go again trying to create a distraction.

Are ocean currents responsible for abrupt warming and cooling? Is there evidence for that?

 

[Crick]

There you go again trying to create a distraction.

Are ocean currents responsible for abrupt warming and cooling? Is there evidence for that?

You are the one trying to create a distraction. Our contention is the cause of the glacial-interglacial cycle. Ever since you realized you could find no evidence to support your claim in the regard, you have never mentioned it. Now it's always "abrupt" climate change. How about answering me this question right now:

What does mainstream science believe causes the glacial-interglacial cycle?

 

[ding]

You are the one trying to create a distraction. Our contention is the cause of the glacial-interglacial cycle. Ever since you realized you could find no evidence to support your claim in the regard, you have never mentioned it. Now it's always "abrupt" climate change. How about answering me this question right now:

What does mainstream science believe causes the glacial-interglacial cycle?

The argument isn't the cause of glacial cycles. The argument is that the ocean is responsible for abrupt temperature changes. That's the point of these papers. It's well known and well understood. Chock full of physical evidence.



https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaf5529?adobe_mc=MCMID=24445298415631476812898182430771639861|MCORGID=242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%40AdobeOrg|TS=1723213472

Sudden climate changes in the recent geological record

https://www.science.org/content/article/crippled-atlantic-currents-triggered-ice-age-climate-change

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature

Destabilisation of the Subpolar North Atlantic prior to the Little Ice Age - Nature Communications

Snapshots of mean ocean temperature over the last 700 000 years using noble gases in the EPICA Dome C ice core

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0031018285800201

Deep Atlantic Circulation During the Last Glacial Maximum and Deglaciation​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/PA005i004p00469

Collapse and rapid resumption of Atlantic meridional circulation linked to deglacial climate changes - Nature​

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2010PA0020

 

[Crick]

The argument isn't the cause of glacial cycles. The argument is that the ocean is responsible for abrupt temperature changes. That's the point of these papers. It's well known and well understood. Chock full of physical evidence.

You lying piece of shit

You need to face the fact that changing ocean currents explain all of the climate events of the past 3 million years.

To which I responded

Then you need to answer the two obvious questions: why does every expert on the fucking planet say the cycle is driven by orbital forcing? Why does NO ONE beside YOU say it is driven by ocean currents?

Which was the beginning of this argument.

 

[JBG]

Ding has contended that the glacial-interglacial cycle is driven by changes in ocean currents. He has found NO source supporting that statement. I hold the dominant position of mainstream science, that it is driven by Milankovitch orbital forcing. I have posted multiple sources making that specific statement. Ding is now trying to claim that he only contended ocean currents were responsible for "abrupt climate changes" such as D-O and Heinrich Events but his past posts show otherwise.

Ding has also contended that changes in ocean currents are responsible for the warming of the past 150 years and that the warming of added CO2 is inadequate to have produced the observed warming. He has repeatedly stated that the warming of the past 150 years is part of normal interglacial warming. Here also I hold the dominant position of mainstream science, that the warming of the past 150 years is almost entirely due to the greenhouse effect acting on human CO2 emissions.

Thanks. Do you both disbelieve AGW?

 

[ding]

You lying piece of shit


To which I responded

Which was the beginning of this argument.

The most recent ice age was characterized by rapid and hemispherically asynchronous climate oscillations, whose origin remains unresolved. Variations in oceanic meridional heat transport may contribute to these repeated climate changes, which were most pronounced during marine isotope stage 3, the glacial interval 25 thousand to 60 thousand years ago. We examined climate and ocean circulation proxies throughout this interval at high resolution in a deep North Atlantic sediment core, combining the kinematic tracer protactinium/thorium (Pa/Th) with the deep water-mass tracer, epibenthic δ13C. These indicators suggest reduced Atlantic overturning circulation during every cool northern stadial, with the greatest reductions during episodic Hudson Strait iceberg discharges, while sharp northern warming followed reinvigorated overturning. These results provide direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

 

[Crick]

The most recent ice age was characterized by rapid and hemispherically asynchronous climate oscillations, whose origin remains unresolved. Variations in oceanic meridional heat transport may contribute to these repeated climate changes, which were most pronounced during marine isotope stage 3, the glacial interval 25 thousand to 60 thousand years ago. We examined climate and ocean circulation proxies throughout this interval at high resolution in a deep North Atlantic sediment core, combining the kinematic tracer protactinium/thorium (Pa/Th) with the deep water-mass tracer, epibenthic δ13C. These indicators suggest reduced Atlantic overturning circulation during every cool northern stadial, with the greatest reductions during episodic Hudson Strait iceberg discharges, while sharp northern warming followed reinvigorated overturning. These results provide direct evidence for the ocean’s persistent, central role in abrupt glacial climate change.

This was not the beginning of this argument. This was your attempt to dodge your losing proposition that changes in ocean currents were responsible for virtually everything seen in the geological record for the past 3 million years. Now you want to pretend you never said any such thing. That makes you, as I just noted, a LYING piece of SHIT.

 

[ding]

This was not the beginning of this argument. This was your attempt to dodge your losing proposition that changes in ocean currents were responsible for virtually everything seen in the geological record for the past 3 million years. Now you want to pretend you never said any such thing. That makes you, as I just noted, a LYING piece of SHIT.

The idea of Gulf Stream slowdowns as a mechanism in climate change is not merely theoretical. There is actually evidence from the study of ocean sediments that deepwater formation in the north Atlantic was diminished during the sudden cold Heinrich events and other colder phases of the last 130,000 years, including the Younger Dryas phase (e.g., Fairbanks, 1989; Kennett, 1990; Maslin, 199x). The same appears to have been true further back in time to 1.5 Myr ago (Raymo et al. 1998). The process also 'switched on' rapidly at times when climates suddenly warmed around the north Atlantic Basin, such as at the beginning of interstadials or the beginning of the present interglacial (Ramussen et al. 1997). Decreasing deep water formation occurred at times when the climate was cooling towards the end of an interstadial, and it diminished suddenly with the final cooling event that marked the end of the interstadial (Ramussen et al., 1997), and over a period of less than 300 years at the beginning of the Younger Dryas (e.g., Berger and Jansen, 1995).

 

[Crick]

The idea of Gulf Stream slowdowns as a mechanism in climate change is not merely theoretical. There is actually evidence from the study of ocean sediments that deepwater formation in the north Atlantic was diminished during the sudden cold Heinrich events and other colder phases of the last 130,000 years, including the Younger Dryas phase (e.g., Fairbanks, 1989; Kennett, 1990; Maslin, 199x). The same appears to have been true further back in time to 1.5 Myr ago (Raymo et al. 1998). The process also 'switched on' rapidly at times when climates suddenly warmed around the north Atlantic Basin, such as at the beginning of interstadials or the beginning of the present interglacial (Ramussen et al. 1997). Decreasing deep water formation occurred at times when the climate was cooling towards the end of an interstadial, and it diminished suddenly with the final cooling event that marked the end of the interstadial (Ramussen et al., 1997), and over a period of less than 300 years at the beginning of the Younger Dryas (e.g., Berger and Jansen, 1995).

Glacial-interglacial cycles? No.

 

[ding]

Glacial-interglacial cycles? No.

Ocean currents play a role in every abrupt climate change. Read the science.

 

[justoffal]

Ocean currents establish climate.
The ocean is the largest collector of solar energy.
The ocean stores the majority of the planet's heat.
The ocean is the largest feature of the planet.
The mass of the ocean is 300 times the mass of the atmosphere.
The ocean contains 1000 times more heat than the ocean.
The ocean heats the atmosphere.
The atmosphere does not heat the ocean.
Physical evidence shows that when ocean currents change, the climate changes.
Physical evidence shows ocean currents are responsible for northern hemisphere glaciation.
Physical evidence shows ocean currents are responsible for the initiation of the Little Ice Age.
Physical evidence shows ocean currents are responsible for the end of the Little Ice Age.
The current warming trend began 250 years before the industrial revolution.
The geologic record is littered with examples of naturally caused warming and cooling trends.
Empirical climate evidence shows the planet cooled for millions of years with >600 ppm of CO2.
The last interglacial period was 2C warmer with 26ft higher seas and 120ppm less CO2 than today.

There is a noticeable flourish of greenery. Plant life is thriving.