CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[BULLDOG]

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

You must be replying to another post. This is what I wrote:

"London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours."

You don't think London has drugs or gangs, or fatherless children? Really?

They do, which is why their crime rates are going up and their gun crimes are going up too.........and the shooters and victims are younger and younger.

Their welfare states have reached the point where fatherless boys are turning to gangs in record numbers....and the violence is increasing....

Yet their crime rates are still much lower than ours.

 

[BULLDOG]

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

And then you have this...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Did you intend to put that link there that showed your claim to be a lie, or was that just a dumb mistake?

 

[2aguy]

So you think Americans are just inherently violent people? You might think having so many guns might have something to do with that.

You must be replying to another post. This is what I wrote:

"London does not have a drug-gang industry fueled by Fatherless poor Black communities like the US does. Replicate our inner cities in London and their statistics would be in line with ours."

You don't think London has drugs or gangs, or fatherless children? Really?

They do, which is why their crime rates are going up and their gun crimes are going up too.........and the shooters and victims are younger and younger.

Their welfare states have reached the point where fatherless boys are turning to gangs in record numbers....and the violence is increasing....

Yet their crime rates are still much lower than ours.

You think that will stay the same? Really?

Three years have passed since the government loudly launched its first serious violence strategy. Backed with £40m of Home Office funding, the strategy hailed a “real step-change” in how the UK tackled “violent drug-dealing gangs” and their recruitment of vulnerable youngsters.

But not only do the killings continue, the gangs themselves have proliferated. Former Home Office adviser and director of the National Centre for Gang Research Simon Harding believes the taskforce has made little difference because it was obsessed with the wrong target. “It should have been focused on tackling poverty, inequality. These are the main drivers of violence.”

Instead of an innovative approach to dismantle the cycle of drug-fuelled violence, it repackaged the strategy kickstarted by Richard Nixon and his “war on drugs” 50 years ago.
----------
Butt refers to the idea of “ratings” to explain brazen violence.“If they stab or hurt someone, they are more likely to get ratings, road status,” he says. An act of sickening brutality committed in a public place – ideally in front of bystanders and shared on social media – offers guaranteed ratings. Newham’s two recent murders, committed in the afternoon and likely to be witnessed, conform to the theory.

Such behaviour has also escalated the risk to officers. Chaudhri, who grew up in Newham, has monitored the evolution of its criminals from working-class white protection rackets to the competitive and chaotic world of drug-dealing, and believes the streets have become more threatening to its police. “They are a lot uglier, more violent. Assaults on officers have increased,” she said.

London killings: âItâs like a war zone. How did it come to this?â

The shooting and stabbing of a teenager in broad daylight on a street in Canning Town is just the latest chapter of what has become Britain’s most violent gangland feud

www.theguardian.com

 

[BULLDOG]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

 

[2aguy]

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

And then you have this...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Did you intend to put that link there that showed your claim to be a lie, or was that just a dumb mistake?
View attachment 497132

See....you didn't read the story....I did......I quoted the part where they actually compared violent crime rates....you didn't.....

And notice the lie in your quote?

They say 2000 "Crimes" in the U.K. and only say "violent" crimes for the U.S....

Please read this again....where they compare apples to apples with violent crime between Britain and the U.S.....

Please...try harder next time....

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

 

[BULLDOG]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

Criminals can drive cars........they contain most of their crime and killing to democrat party areas, but they do know how to travel...

We aren't talking about cars. you said "Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....' Is that true or not?

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

Completely limited, no...since criminals actually can drive cars, and our wonderful government moves the families of gang members out to the suburbs....

The majority of our criminals shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities, committed by a tiny number of criminals. The problem happens when the democrat party prosecutors drop gun charges, and when judges grant bail, and light sentences for even the most violent, repeat gun offenders....

The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

You can examine the picture of the US counties in more detail by opening it in a new tab. The Distribution of murders The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places w…

crimeresearch.org

And....from the Washington Post....please tell us how "WAshington Post," spells NRA....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

 

[BULLDOG]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

He brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth.....he was arrested and sent to prison for 4 years..

In 4 years he is going to get out.

Pretty much all you need to know. What should she do? Since the British police didn't stop the first beatings or the last one....simply arrested him after the fact.....what does she do "before the fact?"

Sorry. If you want to discuss wife beating, you should start a thread on that.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

Criminals can drive cars........they contain most of their crime and killing to democrat party areas, but they do know how to travel...

We aren't talking about cars. you said "Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....' Is that true or not?

Yep......if you don't associate with criminals, don't live with criminals, your odds of any gun crime involvement is almost zero.....

And if you go to mass public shootings.....we had 1 in 2020, with 5 killed....out of a population of 320 million. In 2019 we had 10...

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation


Rental Truck in Nice, France, 86 murdered in 5 minutes...

Total number murdered in mass public shootings by year...

Lawn mower deaths every year.... more than 90

Lawnmowers kill more people than bears or sharks or alligators each year

Falling off ladder deaths...300...

Ladder Safety.

2020....5
2019....73
2018.....93
2017........117
2016......71
2015......37
2014..... 9
2013..... 36
2012..... 72
2011..... 19
2010....9
2009...39
2008...18
2007...54
2006...21
2005...17
2004...5
2003...7
2002...not listed by mother jones
2001...5
2000...7
1999...42
1998...14
1997...9
1996...6
1995...6
1994....5
1993...23
1992...9
1991...35
1990...10
1989...15
1988...7
1987...6
1986...15
1985...(none listed)
1984...28
1983 (none listed)
1982...8

Less than 90 killed in almost every year but two......with more people dying by falling off ladders or killed by lawn mowers.....

out of 10,235 gun murders in 2019....so please......tell me how likely it is for normal people to experience gun murder....

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

He brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth.....he was arrested and sent to prison for 4 years..

In 4 years he is going to get out.

Pretty much all you need to know. What should she do? Since the British police didn't stop the first beatings or the last one....simply arrested him after the fact.....what does she do "before the fact?"

Sorry. If you want to discuss wife beating, you should start a thread on that.

I started this thread on self defense......I think wife beating falls into that category.......in Britain, the wife just has to take it........

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

Criminals can drive cars........they contain most of their crime and killing to democrat party areas, but they do know how to travel...

We aren't talking about cars. you said "Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....' Is that true or not?

Here you go...from my first post...exactly what I stated....

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

S0.....10,235 gun murders in 2019......

Take out the 80% and you are left with 2,047........and again, the vast majority of these remaining victims are friends and family of the criminals murdered by mistake......bad shots......

divided by 50 states... 40.94 per state....

Lawnmowers kill 100 a year.

Falls off ladders kill 300 a year...

and of those 41 (rounding up) the majority still occur in democrat party controlled voting areas...

 

[BULLDOG]

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

And then you have this...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Did you intend to put that link there that showed your claim to be a lie, or was that just a dumb mistake?
View attachment 497132

See....you didn't read the story....I did......I quoted the part where they actually compared violent crime rates....you didn't.....

And notice the lie in your quote?

They say 2000 "Crimes" in the U.K. and only say "violent" crimes for the U.S....

Please read this again....where they compare apples to apples with violent crime between Britain and the U.S.....

Please...try harder next time....

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Words have meanings. Whining doesn't change that. We should do what they are doing. Their results are much better than ours.

 

[BULLDOG]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

Completely limited, no...since criminals actually can drive cars, and our wonderful government moves the families of gang members out to the suburbs....

The majority of our criminals shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities, committed by a tiny number of criminals. The problem happens when the democrat party prosecutors drop gun charges, and when judges grant bail, and light sentences for even the most violent, repeat gun offenders....

The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

You can examine the picture of the US counties in more detail by opening it in a new tab. The Distribution of murders The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places w…

crimeresearch.org

And....from the Washington Post....please tell us how "WAshington Post," spells NRA....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

You are talking in circles, and all your silly cut and paste is annoying. Try again later after your head cools off.

 

[2aguy]

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

And then you have this...

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Did you intend to put that link there that showed your claim to be a lie, or was that just a dumb mistake?
View attachment 497132

See....you didn't read the story....I did......I quoted the part where they actually compared violent crime rates....you didn't.....

And notice the lie in your quote?

They say 2000 "Crimes" in the U.K. and only say "violent" crimes for the U.S....

Please read this again....where they compare apples to apples with violent crime between Britain and the U.S.....

Please...try harder next time....

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

Social media post says U.K. has far higher violent crime rate than U.S. does

The debate over gun policy has inspired a blizzard of messages on social media, from both supporters and opponents of gu

www.politifact.com

Words have meanings. Whining doesn't change that. We should do what they are doing. Their results are much better than ours.

Again...what should the woman do? 4 years and the man who brutally beat her is getting out of prison...

What about the woman who was gang raped?

What does she do in Britain....? Does she keep walking in parks? Will they track her down, do it again? What would you suggest she do?

In a famous story here in the U.S. a woman asked what she should do about being afraid of being a victim......the cop she talked to told her...get a gun, learn how to use it.....

A woman in her 20s has been gang raped by a group of men overnight in Manchester, police said.


Read more: Woman in 20s raped by group of men in 'random attack' in park

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

Completely limited, no...since criminals actually can drive cars, and our wonderful government moves the families of gang members out to the suburbs....

The majority of our criminals shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities, committed by a tiny number of criminals. The problem happens when the democrat party prosecutors drop gun charges, and when judges grant bail, and light sentences for even the most violent, repeat gun offenders....

The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

You can examine the picture of the US counties in more detail by opening it in a new tab. The Distribution of murders The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places w…

crimeresearch.org

And....from the Washington Post....please tell us how "WAshington Post," spells NRA....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

You are talking in circles, and all your silly cut and paste is annoying. Try again later after your head cools off.

So...we have reached the point where you have no answer..........I have the facts, the truth and reality...you can't answer my questions, and you can't deny the facts.........

What does the woman do when the guy who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth gets out of British prison in 4 years?

What does the young woman who was gang raped in the Manchester park do about keeping it from happening again? You know, since Sadiq Khan, mayor of london also said that London is not safe for women or girls...what do they do?

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do.


This is what American women do.......

Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them

LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

"I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired,” said Burns.

It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

"Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."

The men weren't deterred by Dinah's dog Gracie.

"I said, 'Well, what do you want?,' and as I was saying that I reached in to my pocket and slipped my gun out, slipped the safety off as I pulled it out. As I was doing that the other gentleman came toward me and raised the baseball bat. And, I pointed the gun at them and said, 'I have this and I'm not afraid to use it.'"

The men took off and so far have eluded police. Dinah posted about the incident on Facebook to alert friends and neighbors, to criticism by some.

"Most of the males' opinion was, 'Why didn't you shoot them?'"

Easy to second-guess a decision made under pressure, based on her concealed carry training, and police agree.

"To get out of a situation, back out, get out of it as much as you can without having to discharge your firearm."

"I will say it's a good thing to go from a place of danger to a place of safety, however you get that done,” said Sgt. Matt Chambers, Lancaster Police.

"Very thankful that it turned out the way it did, and hope it doesn't happen again, but I will be prepared."
========
What I want you to know on Gun Violence Awareness Day | Fox News

I correctly listened to my instincts; I had a feeling that my life was in danger in that elevator and prepared myself mentally for what was potentially to come.

I ran to my car in an attempt to escape and, before I could even get my entire body in my car, I was tackled by my attacker.

This man quickly overpowered me, stabbed at me with a knife, clamped his hand over my mouth multiple times, and repeatedly tried forcing me in the passenger seat of my car while telling me, “We’re going.”

The entire time this was happening, a rusted, serrated knife was being stabbed towards my abdomen and held at my face.

I had been hit in the face, thrown over my driver’s side console, and had rips in my tights from his hands trying to force my legs up and over into the passenger seat.

There are some individuals that think gun owners are “trigger happy” and wanting to pull their weapons out at the first opportunity. There is nothing further from the truth.

The night I was attacked, I fought like hell for my life before reaching for my gun. I kicked, I screamed, I had all ten fingernails ripped off and bloodied from scratching and trying to fight my way out of a literal life and death situation.
Ultimately, I accessed my gun, shot my attacker multiple times, and saved my life. He will be spending years in prison for what he did to me.

Using a gun in self-protection is not a decision one makes lightly; in fact, I never dreamed that I would be forced into a situation where I would have to do so. However, I also never imagined such evil existing in the world so that I would be powerless, wounded, on my back and unable to physically force my attacker off of me.

I owned a gun and had been trained on how to use it. I know how to safely carry and that a gun is a serious and significant weapon; it is not to be used carelessly. Naysayers and people with opposing opinions may try to undermine my situation with hypotheticals. I cannot answer these questions. All I can do is tell the facts of my story and the true account of how I saved my own life.

What I want you to know on Gun Awareness Day is that a gun in the hands of a potential victim is not improperly placed; it can be the only thing keeping her from being brutally raped and murdered.

Without my gun, I would not be alive today.


Guns are not the problem in America; men like my attacker -- who are willing to violently change one person’s life for no reason except for pure evil – are the problem.

Be safe at all times. Be aware of your surroundings. Trust your instincts. Always be able to protect yourself. Refuse to be a victim, and instead be a fighter and a survivor. Live to tell your tale and make a criminal regret the day he chose you as a “soft target.” My gun saved my life, and one could save yours too.
===============

 

[2aguy]

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

No. Their violent crimes, such as Homicide, Rape, and Sexual assault are much lower. Robbery is essentially the same. Simple assault is higher, but one out of five measurements is hardly grounds for saying what they are doing doesn't work. I prefer more simple assaults that don't result in death over 5 times more murders. You don't? We should do what they are doing.

View attachment 497090

I see the mistake....they use the NCVS numbers.....and the British government has been hiding their real numbers for years now...

Inspections of 43 police forces in England and Wales detail how officers incorrectly cancelled reports of rape, sexual offences, violence and robbery.

UK police forces wrongly cancelled reports of serious crimes

The charity Rape Crisis says the findings are "completely unacceptable".

www.bbc.com

And do you realize that assault that gives you life changing injuries is a bad thing...right? Like the woman who had two teeth pulled out by her boyfriend, who is going to be out of prison in 4 years.....

Got it. The numbers don't say what you want, so you fall back on another conspiracy theory. The British government is hiding the real numbers!!!!!
Why am I not surprised?

That's not me...that is the British left wing press.....

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Not the question...

The question is this....do you prefer the European model of self defense...not guns, and you are not allowed to fight back, as in Britain...or the American version.

I prefer the model that works. If that means I can't live out my fantasies and pretend to be Dirty Harry, I can live with that. What they are doing works. They have lots fewer dead people. We should do what they are doing.

The model that works is the U.S. model...1.1 million Americans were not victims of rape, robbery, brutal beatings or murder......because they could use guns...

In Britain, you can be arrested if you hurt your attacker.......

And, of course, their criminals are becoming more violent and using guns more......why would you think their murder rates would stay the same or their crime rates as their welfare states have finally created too many fatherless homes, and their immigration policies have created more violent criminals?

They will be defenseless in the face of more and more violence.

The gun death rate in the US is nearly 100 times the gun death rate in England. We should be doing what they are doing.

The U.S. has the 32nd-highest rate of deaths from gun violence in the world: 3.96 deaths per 100,000 people in 2019. That was more than eight times as high as the rate in Canada, which had 0.47 deaths per 100,000 people — and nearly 100 times higher than in the United Kingdom, which had 0.04 deaths per 100,000.Mar 24, 2021

Our gun death rate is confined to criminals ...normal people who don't associate with criminals don't have to worry.....

Meanwhile, you didn't answer the question..

What does the woman do with the man who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth with his fingers...? He gets out of British prison in 4 years......

If our gun death rates are confined to criminals, why are so many NRA gun nuts claiming they have to be armed 24/7 for self defense? Are all those NRA gun nuts criminals?

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do. The first thing would probably be to not go back to him.

Not enough information to suggest what that woman should do.

In America...this is what American women can do....

He tries to get into her home to beat her and pull more teeth?

Mother Shoots Intruder 'Multiple Times' to Save Baby - Breitbart

An Indianapolis mother shot a man “multiple times” after he allegedly broke into the home through the window in the baby’s room.

According to CBS 4, family members said that around noon on March 24, the woman “heard the window get busted and she called her husband and said I think somebody’s breaking in the house.”

She grabbed her pistol and ran toward the sound of breaking glass, only to be confronted by the alleged intruder who shot at her, but missed.

The mother then opened fire and struck the suspect “multiple times.” He was transported to a hospital for treatment.

In addition to being armed, a 911 dispatcher said the suspect was “carrying zip ties and a walkie-talkie.”
======

What if he brings friends.....?

DGU of the Day: Trotwood Ohio Woman Defeats Three Home Invaders - The Truth About Guns

Three men break into a home in Trotwood, Ohio. [Click here to watch the video.] They’re all armed. It is before 6 am, just three days after Christmas. One of the men is armed with a Tec-9 pistol. He enters last. The other two hold what appear to be conventional semi-auto pistols. They bypass two sleeping children to find the mother. The surveillance video shows the three following the mother after they pistol whipped her in the laundry room.

The man directly behind her has the Tec-9. Presumably holds her at gunpoint while the other two attempt to drag off a safe, in a room with two more children. While the two men are occupied with the safe, the woman breaks free from her captor, accesses a hidden pistol, and starts to fire.

All three run, but the Tec-9 gunman, Azikiwe Presley, is mortally wounded. His body is found 100 yards from the house. From wdtn.com:

“I got my gun and I started shooting and they ran,” the female caller told dispatchers. “They all three had guns, I’m confused … they must not have had bullets because after I pulled the trigger they just took off, instead of firing back. I don’t know if I hit one or not, I don’t see blood anywhere.”

In this case, the recipient of female dedication to protecting innocent life ran a hundred yards and died. It is not uncommon for a man who is fatally shot to run that far, even with a heart/lung shot. As he was likely the one holding the woman at gunpoint, and the closest, greatest, threat with the Tec-9, it is not surprising that he drew the lethal ticket. Whether through choice or happenstance, the mother made the right tactical decision.
=

 

[BULLDOG]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

Completely limited, no...since criminals actually can drive cars, and our wonderful government moves the families of gang members out to the suburbs....

The majority of our criminals shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities, committed by a tiny number of criminals. The problem happens when the democrat party prosecutors drop gun charges, and when judges grant bail, and light sentences for even the most violent, repeat gun offenders....

The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

You can examine the picture of the US counties in more detail by opening it in a new tab. The Distribution of murders The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places w…

crimeresearch.org

And....from the Washington Post....please tell us how "WAshington Post," spells NRA....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

You are talking in circles, and all your silly cut and paste is annoying. Try again later after your head cools off.

So...we have reached the point where you have no answer..........I have the facts, the truth and reality...you can't answer my questions, and you can't deny the facts.........

What does the woman do when the guy who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth gets out of British prison in 4 years?

What does the young woman who was gang raped in the Manchester park do about keeping it from happening again? You know, since Sadiq Khan, mayor of london also said that London is not safe for women or girls...what do they do?

Answer this question directly, without any tap dancing or diversion, and I will consider continuing. You claim that if you don't associate with crooks, you don't have to worry about gun crime. Are all, or even most of the NRA gun nuts who are armed 24/7 associates of criminals, or criminals themselves? Yes or no.

 

[2aguy]

In Britain and the rest of Europe, their citizens have no Right to protect themselves from violent attack...and the best tool for self defense, guns....has been taken away from most of them, in particular the low income groups.

In the U.S. in most places Americans can opt to use guns for at a minimum home defense, and in a vast majority of the country over 19.4 million Americans can legally carry guns for self defense.

In Britain, in particular.....rapes, brutal beatings, brutal knifings (that result in death or life changing injuries), robberies and murder, essentially have to be endured......and almost any attempt at self defense can land the actual victim in jail and prison.

In the U.S.......Americans can use their legal guns...which they do 1.1 million times a year, to stop rapes, brutal beatings, knifings, robberies and murder.

In our country we had 10,235 gun murders.....of those murders over 70-80% of the victims were criminals murdered by other criminals...they were not normal citizens. Of the rest of the victims, the vast majority are the friends, family and associates of the criminals hit by mistake as the actual criminal was the target.

Guns, again, are used in the U.S. 1.1 million times a year to save lives...from rape, robbery, beatings, knifings and murder.........over 170,000 lives saved by some research..........not to include the crimes stopped that also saved lives....

In the U.K.......victims of crime are majority innocent people......who are preyed upon by the British criminals...

Which model do you prefer?

We kill lots of people. They don't kill nearly as many. We should do what they are doing.
View attachment 496928

Demographics explain that, not guns. The whitest countries tend to have the lowest violent crime in general, as do countries like Japan and South Korea.

Take away the legal guns, and you'll still have plenty of knifings and gang violence here. And since most criminals already can get guns illegally, there will still be plenty of shootings.

Are Americans just inherently more violent and murderous than the rest of the world?

No......we just have criminals who commit crimes, get caught, and then the democrat party politicians, judges and prosecutors let them go.......for now, Britain doesn't do that...but their left wing is trying hard to let their violent criminals go too...

Our violent crime is committed by a tiny, tiny number of people in our democrat party controlled cities...if they would stop releasing them, our crime rate in democrat party cities would be amazingly low...like the rest of America....

In places not controlled by the democrat party, our gun crime rates are as tiny or smaller than in Europe.

So are gun crimes limited to within the criminal community, like you said or not?

Completely limited, no...since criminals actually can drive cars, and our wonderful government moves the families of gang members out to the suburbs....

The majority of our criminals shootings occur in tiny areas of democrat party controlled cities, committed by a tiny number of criminals. The problem happens when the democrat party prosecutors drop gun charges, and when judges grant bail, and light sentences for even the most violent, repeat gun offenders....

The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places where there are no murders, places where there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.

In 2014, the most recent year that a county-level breakdown is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population) have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder, and about 20% of the population. These counties account for only 4% of all murders in the country.

The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of the murders. The worst 2% of counties contain 28% of the population and 51% of the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the population and account for 68% of murders. But even within those counties the murders are very heavily concentrated in small areas.

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders

You can examine the picture of the US counties in more detail by opening it in a new tab. The Distribution of murders The United States can really be divided up into three types of places. Places w…

crimeresearch.org

And....from the Washington Post....please tell us how "WAshington Post," spells NRA....

As the below charts show, Democratic areas (measured by the party that controls the congressional district) are far more likely to experience almost all forms of malicious gun violence than Republican areas. These charts exclude suicides, for which data are not available on a congressional district basis, so it only breaks down the fraction of gun violence that is accidental or confrontational.
--------

A distinct pattern emerged: In Democratic regions of the country, which tend to be cities, people are more likely to be murdered with a gun than they are to shoot themselves to death.

In regions of the country won by Republicans, which tend to be rural areas and small towns, the opposite is true — people are more likely to shoot themselves to death than they are to be murdered with a gun.
----
In the most Democratic regions, gun violence is more often committed against another, crimes that probably generate more news coverage and fear. In the most Republican areas, it is more often committed against oneself, suicides that may not attract as much attention.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...prising-way-gun-violence-is-dividing-america/

You are talking in circles, and all your silly cut and paste is annoying. Try again later after your head cools off.

So...we have reached the point where you have no answer..........I have the facts, the truth and reality...you can't answer my questions, and you can't deny the facts.........

What does the woman do when the guy who brutally beat her and pulled out two of her teeth gets out of British prison in 4 years?

What does the young woman who was gang raped in the Manchester park do about keeping it from happening again? You know, since Sadiq Khan, mayor of london also said that London is not safe for women or girls...what do they do?

Answer this question directly, without any tap dancing or diversion, and I will consider continuing. You claim that if you don't associate with crooks, you don't have to worry about gun crime. Are all, or even most of the NRA gun nuts who are armed 24/7 associates of criminals, or criminals themselves? Yes or no.

I don't tap dance or divert....you can't answer my questions and you can't answer the facts, truth or reality of my information.

No, they are not.....NRA members are law abiding people. Do some have criminals in the family, sure....but they don't have criminals as family members as a majority of the population of NRA members. The areas in democrat party controlled cities where almost all of our gun crime takes place have generational poverty as a result of fatherless homes.....it creates generations of fatherless boys who turn to drugs, gangs and crime to find meaning and power........