Turkish PM clears way for Iraq assault

canavar said:
You seem to have real problems. As i would give a shit what you talk on personal level to me.
Click to expand...

I only have issues with idiots who come on here trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses. You're a liar, plain and simple.

You sit here talking all this shit, but the fact is, your country is not going to confront US armed forces with Turkish armed forces. Fortunately for your country, smarter heads than yours prevail because such a move would be suicide on Turkey's part.

You can talk all the crap you want, but the fact is, we haven't been beaten on the battlefield in a LONG time, and we STILL won the wars when we did suffer setbacks.

So you and your propaganda need to run along and play somewhere where some braindead people might believe what you're selling.

People like you should be kept locked in a cage. You'd start a war for no reason than your delusions of grandeur, and your entire nation would suffer for it. That makes you dangerous to yourself and others.
 
GunnyL said:
I only have issues with idiots who come on here trying to blow smoke up everyone's asses. You're a liar, plain and simple.

You sit here talking all this shit, but the fact is, your country is not going to confront US armed forces with Turkish armed forces. Fortunately for your country, smarter heads than yours prevail because such a move would be suicide on Turkey's part.

You can talk all the crap you want, but the fact is, we haven't been beaten on the battlefield in a LONG time, and we STILL won the wars when we did suffer setbacks.

So you and your propaganda need to run along and play somewhere where some braindead people might believe what you're selling.

People like you should be kept locked in a cage. You'd start a war for no reason than your delusions of grandeur, and your entire nation would suffer for it. That makes you dangerous to yourself and others.
Click to expand...

Can you precise that part for no reasons?
It is the same reasons USA had attacked Afghanistan and the "so-called" reasons it did also do with Iraq.

Either with us or against us, as your president said.
USA has choosen its doow. Israelis were more smarter regarding North-Iraq.
You will see, more i can not say, as facts on ground have still not been made, but are underway.
We will see, GunnyL.
Fact is "so-called" alliance is over.

Parts of my posts about brain-dead people, jerkoffs, pussies, asses etc. like you call to people i will not continue, dear GunnyL. We both know it will end in banning me by persons who have bold usernames talking on that level.
End of story.
 
It's not me dreaming. It's you dreaming of USA can fly into Turkish Airspace with Supplies, can use Iskenderun and Mersin ports for containers against Turkish will.
Which part of we will
- deny entrance of ships into Turkish waters,
- deny entrance into Turkish airspace,
- deny use of Turkish highways and rail-network
Click to expand...
I was just reading about the models of military equipment in the Turk inventory. It is virtually all of US manufacture both in the air and on the ground. If the US cut off parts delivery to the Turk military it would grind to a halt in a few months. Turk F-16s, of which there are about 200 older models would stop flying quickly. It is hard to believe that the Turk military would support any aggressive action against US forces. It would be suicidal from both a combat and logistics perspective. What would happen to the Turk air force modernization plan? The purchase of 30 new F-16s and 100 F-35s? It would be trashed and they would be stuck with inferior aircraft from the new Soviets. A few F-22s could decimate the entire Turk air force in a few days, maybe a few hours. In exercises, F-22s shoot down F-15s at a rate of 10 or 12 to 1 and the Turks don't even have anything that can stand up to a F-15 or an F-18. Go ahead and deny US supply movement through Turkey. That's just what the PKK would love to see. Provoke US forces in northern Iraq and make sure that US concern about the PKK goes on the back burner. A large invasion of northern Iraq would be a huge blunder, ineffective against the PKK and ensuring the hostility of the US. What could be more unrealistic than attacking ground controlled by the US military? Denial of the Armenian Genocide?
 
onedomino said:
I was just reading about the models of military equipment in the Turk inventory. It is virtually all of US manufacture both in the air and on the ground. If the US cut off parts delivery to the Turk military it would grind to a halt in a few months. Turk F-16s, of which there are about 200 older models would stop flying quickly. It is hard to believe that the Turk military would support any aggressive action against US forces. It would be suicidal from both a combat and logistics perspective. What would happen to the Turk air force modernization plan? The purchase of 30 new F-16s and 100 F-35s? It would be trashed and they would be stuck with inferior aircraft from the new Soviets. A few F-22s could decimate the entire Turk air force in a few days, maybe a few hours. In exercises, F-22s shoot down F-15s at a rate of 10 or 12 to 1 and the Turks don't even have anything that can stand up to a F-15 or an F-18. Go ahead and deny US supply movement through Turkey. That's just what the PKK would love to see. Provoke US forces in northern Iraq and make sure that US concern about the PKK goes on the back burner. A large invasion of northern Iraq would be a huge blunder, ineffective against the PKK and ensuring the hostility of the US. What could be unrealistic than attacking ground controlled by the US military? Denial of the Armenian Genocide?
Click to expand...

Wrong. Only Airforce is dependent on USA.
Finmeccanica of Italy (which with we built together in a 3 company cosortium our new Battle-Helicopters) and BAE of UK have invited Turkey to join Eurofighter consortium as 6zh Partner for Tranche-3 üroject of Eurofighter.
Government favoured this solution, Army wanted Lockheed Martin as with Lockheed Martin is good partnership and Airforce is USA hardware.

Whether navy nor ground forces is depemdemt on USA. We built our stuffs our selves. Or currently developing them.
Subs, Battle-Hellicopters, Missiles, Artillery, Main Battle Tanks, Sattelites, Frigates, Corvettes etc etc.

We are dependent on Airforce. So we must go with Eurofighter, Sukhoi or Join China-Pakistan Aircraft project. There are alternatives, where of course Lockheed Martin is best option. But it is a political decision, which will be then made.
And either Europe, Russia or China will be happy about.

Turkey has source-codes of F-16 and produced F-16 itself for Turkish Army in Eskisehir. Part of F-16 sold to Egypt were produced in Turkey at TAI faciities. We also upgrade Jordanian F-16's and other countries' F-16. So don't consider about spare parts, we are not on industrial level as Iran is.

Also Turkish inventory and stocks will ensure Turkish war machinery to bomb for years, don't worry.
Turkish depdence on Lockheed Martin is by selection, initiative to select other is always there. We have to live with, and that will not make us reject on our Interests in the region against USA interests.
 
canavar said:
Wrong. Only Airforce is dependent on USA.
Finmeccanica of Italy (which with we built together in a 3 company cosortium our new Battle-Helicopters) and BAE of UK have invited Turkey to join Eurofighter consortium as 6zh Partner for Tranche-3 üroject of Eurofighter.
Government favoured this solution, Army wanted Lockheed Martin as with Lockheed Martin is good partnership and Airforce is USA hardware.

Whether navy nor ground forces is depemdemt on USA. We built our stuffs our selves. Or currently developing them.
Subs, Battle-Hellicopters, Missiles, Artillery, Main Battle Tanks, Sattelites, Frigates, Corvettes etc etc.

We are dependent on Airforce. So we must go with Eurofighter, Sukhoi or Join China-Pakistan Aircraft project. There are alternatives, where of course Lockheed Martin is best option. But it is a political decision, which will be then made.
And either Europe, Russia or China will be happy about.

Turkey has source-codes of F-16 and produced F-16 itself for Turkish Army in Eskisehir. Part of F-16 sold to Egypt were produced in Turkey at TAI faciities. We also upgrade Jordanian F-16's and other countries' F-16. So don't consider about spare parts, we are not on industrial level as Iran is.

Also Turkish inventory and stocks will ensure Turkish war machinery to bomb for years, don't worry.
Turkish depdence on Lockheed Martin is by selection, initiative to select other is always there. We have to live with, and that will not make us reject on our Interests in the region against USA interests.
Click to expand...
The Eurofighter instead of the F35? You're joking. What air force are you planning to defeat in the future? The Armenian? I do not think the leaders of Turkey will prove to be as maladaptive as you seem to be. Recall your ambassador. Try to manage to hysteria whipped up by the virulent Turk media. Hopefully cooler Turk heads than yours will prevail.
 
Turkey has been told over and over again that for them to be allowed to join the EU they have to vacate Cyprus.What do you not understand about that?
 
he isnt a troll. he is here frequently and discusses things sometimes.

Democrats are playing with fire condemning Turkey for a 100 year old action. They've already pulled the ambassadors. Moving into Iraq and cutting off our supply line isnt beyond them.
 
Avatar4321 said:
he isnt a troll. he is here frequently and discusses things sometimes.

Democrats are playing with fire condemning Turkey for a 100 year old action. They've already pulled the ambassadors. Moving into Iraq and cutting off our supply line isnt beyond them.
Click to expand...

Makes one wonder if it isn't a calculated move by some politicians to force withdrawal of the troops. Congress hasn't got the guts to cut the funding so they need to utilize indirect means to achieve their goals. Turkey makes a convenient tool in this particular case.
 
CSM said:
Makes one wonder if it isn't a calculated move by some politicians to force withdrawal of the troops. Congress hasn't got the guts to cut the funding so they need to utilize indirect means to achieve their goals. Turkey makes a convenient tool in this particular case.
Click to expand...

I posted something similar--this all smells awful fishy to me !
 
roomy said:
Turkey has been told over and over again that for them to be allowed to join the EU they have to vacate Cyprus.What do you not understand about that?
Click to expand...

Says who?
EU's demand is Turkey to recognize South-Cyprus government, and as South-Cyprus has joined 2004 EU and therefore also EU common market, which Turkey is member of since 1996, EU is demanding from Turkey to open up its airports and seaports for South-Cyprus.
Which we don't and will not, until there is a solution on the island.

South-Cyprus sees itself as sole legal represantator of the island. Which it is not, you just have to look to the north of the island. So Turkey opening up ships and planes for S.Cyprus wil not happen. For us such ships and states do not exist under which flag they drive.

NOW, after some information. Please provide a link that Turkey must "vacate" the island to join EU. Otherwise do not speak of things you do not know.
There are criterias to open Accession talks (Masstricht criterias) and there are criterias which a country has to fullfill (Copenhaguen criterias) to join EU.

Turkey fullfills Maastricht criterias. Copenhaguen Criterias Turkey will fullfill after exactly 34 negotiation chapters. These 34 chapters are exactly related to fullfill Copenhaguen criterias.
Besides these 34 criterias, there are no other criterias that Turkey must fullfill.
These 34 criterias are burecratic stuff to ensure country X is equivalent in legislation to EU regulations.
From curvature of cucumbers, to environment standards and all this stuff.
Over 25 chapters from 34 are directly related to Economy and Industry (standards, statistics etc.)

As a result of this, Turkey will change its economy and GDP statistics to ESA (European System of Accounts) on 1.1.2008.
EU's standard of GDP calculation is very different from Turkey's. For example In EU prostitution and other thingsl go into GDP.

Greece implemented ESA calculation in 2006. And had overnight a bigger GDP by 25,6 %.

Greek economy up 25% - with a little help from prostitutes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1884320,00.html

Turkish economy will on 1.1.2008 be bigger by (preictments by TUIK) 25-30% overnight by EU calculation system.

Nothing, neither Armenian allegations nor withdrawing from Cyprus is a criteria for Turkish EU membership. The only binding criterias are those of Copenhaguen criterias. They are fixed, and valid for Croatia and Turkey.
They also were valid for Poland Czech Republic etc.
 
onedomino said:
The Eurofighter instead of the F35? You're joking. What air force are you planning to defeat in the future? The Armenian? I do not think the leaders of Turkey will prove to be as maladaptive as you seem to be. Recall your ambassador. Try to manage to hysteria whipped up by the virulent Turk media. Hopefully cooler Turk heads than yours will prevail.
Click to expand...

Erewan (capital of Armenia) is 100 km away from Turkish boarder. We do not need to send Airforce in your theretical scenario. Some Kasirga Missiles or Yildirim Missiles with CEP of 25 Meters will ensure Armenian Parliament to exist.

to you other statement:
General Buyukanit called the passage of the resolution by the committee “sad and sorrowful,” in light of the strong links the two NATO allies have shared.

Further, if it were to be passed by the full House of Representatives, “Our military relations with the U.S. would never be as they were in the past,” he said.

“We could not explain this to our public,” he said. “The U.S., in that respect, has shot itself in the foot.”
Click to expand...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/washington/14cnd-turkey.html?ref=us

Also it is wrong to connect USA senate resolution to Iraq invasion of Turkey. 2 different things.
USA senate will lead to closure of logistics for USA.

Invasion of Iraq is related to PKK, you should know, since this is the topic why i registered here.
Both paralell ongoigs is a cumulation, which may blow-up relations irreversible.

You Americans have to see, that USA-Turkey relations will not exist with a PKK-Factor in this relationship.
 
RetiredGySgt said:
Then we have this....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_mi_ea/turkey_us_genocide



Remind us again how Turkey doesn't need the US?
Click to expand...

Hello RetiredGySgt.

USA-Turkey trade is stagnateing for years. On the other hand, Turkey's trade with world is growing in 2 digit percent-numbers.

Turkey's trade (import+export)
2003: 116, 4 billion $
2007: 264,8 billion $
2008: 306,4 billion $

Source: Deutsche Bank
http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562150&$rwframe=0

Turkey-USA trade stands currently at 10-12 billion $. Nothing very special.
To summarize it: USA has not real pressure options to Turkey in regards to Economy related things.

Turkey, nominal GDP
2003: 240 billion $
2007: 496 billion $
2008: 605 billion $

Source: Deutsche Bank
http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562150&$rwframe=0
Numbers for 2008 are incorrect. Deutsche Bank will update, once Turkey changes to ESA (European System of Accounts) calculation on 1.1.2008.
Economy will grow by 25-30 % overnight due to EU standards, as it was the case with Greece.

If you do not believe me with ESA calulation for Turkey, read this:
Everyone will be $2,000 richer overnight
 http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=85772

We have much much more important economic partners then USA.
We need USA for Airforce technology. Otherwise USA can not make "cold war" against Turkey by economy. Our economies are not inter-connected, like UK-USA economy.

And for airforce, maybe Turkey can develop an Aircraft for 25 billion $. The amount Turkey has bought USA bonds.
http://www.aksam.com.tr/haber.asp?a=61330,6&tarih=13.12.2006
Which we, if relationsship really become irreversible will surely sell and transfer this money to Turkey.
Turkey has long experience with F-16. At TAI facilities in Eskisehir there were build 276 F-16 for Turkishairforce, and Egypt airforce.

Also we modernize Jordanian Airforce's F-16's:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2267.html

And Turkey modernizes Pakistans F-16's:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2063.html

Intellectual rights of F-16 are Lockheed Martin. We would respect that.
But Turkey operates together with Israel the largest fleet of F-16's behind USA.
Turkey knows exactly what its disadvatages are and what its advatages are.
We also modernize for others and build for Egyptians.

We can, to protect Lockheed Martins intellectual rights, reverse-engineer F-16 to Turkish needs. I mean correcting current disadvatages of F-16 design.
Will not cost much. Capabilities we have.
In the end of the day, Turkey has biggest Industrial capabilities in Muslim world.

65 % of industrial products which are exported from Mid-East and North-Africa Regions are "Made in Türkiye".
65 % of the industrial materials of Middle East and North Africa are exported by Turkey.
Click to expand...
Source: Foreign Economic Relations Board
http://www.deik.org.tr/deik_baskaninin_mesaji_eng.asp

Oxford Analytica says this:
Turkey and Saudi Arabia alone accounted for 78.4% and 53% respectively of the region's combined manufactured trade and manufacturing value added in 2005. They also represented 81.5% of region's sophisticated manufactures (medium and high-tech manufactures), up from 66.4% in 2000.
Click to expand...
http://www2.ifc.org/newsflash/docs/MENA_OA407.doc

We are economic, industrial, scientific and military leader of the region. (exclude Israel at scientific output per head)

So USA must ask itself, if it wants to alienate the Turkish Republic, the leader in all terms, in this critical region, who is also widening the gap to other players and who cements this status. Which will last, as Turkey's success has nothing to do with oil-ressources.
We would, USA is touching fundamental security interests of Turkey.
For F-35's we will not sell our Nation's interests.
 
canavar said:
Hello RetiredGySgt.

USA-Turkey trade is stagnateing for years. On the other hand, Turkey's trade with world is growing in 2 digit percent-numbers.

Turkey's trade (import+export)
2003: 116, 4 billion $
2007: 264,8 billion $
2008: 306,4 billion $

Source: Deutsche Bank
http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562150&$rwframe=0

Turkey-USA trade stands currently at 10-12 billion $. Nothing very special.
To summarize it: USA has not real pressure options to Turkey in regards to Economy related things.

Turkey, nominal GDP
2003: 240 billion $
2007: 496 billion $
2008: 605 billion $

Source: Deutsche Bank
http://www.dbresearch.de/servlet/reweb2.ReWEB?rwkey=u1562150&$rwframe=0
Numbers for 2008 are incorrect. Deutsche Bank will update, once Turkey changes to ESA (European System of Accounts) calculation on 1.1.2008.
Economy will grow by 25-30 % overnight due to EU standards, as it was the case with Greece.

If you do not believe me with ESA calulation for Turkey, read this:
Everyone will be $2,000 richer overnight
 http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=85772

We have much much more important economic partners then USA.
We need USA for Airforce technology. Otherwise USA can not make "cold war" against Turkey by economy. Our economies are not inter-connected, like UK-USA economy.

And for airforce, maybe Turkey can develop an Aircraft for 25 billion $. The amount Turkey has bought USA bonds.
http://www.aksam.com.tr/haber.asp?a=61330,6&tarih=13.12.2006
Which we, if relationsship really become irreversible will surely sell and transfer this money to Turkey.
Turkey has long experience with F-16. At TAI facilities in Eskisehir there were build 276 F-16 for Turkishairforce, and Egypt airforce.

Also we modernize Jordanian Airforce's F-16's:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2267.html

And Turkey modernizes Pakistans F-16's:
http://www.f-16.net/news_article2063.html

Intellectual rights of F-16 are Lockheed Martin. We would respect that.
But Turkey operates together with Israel the largest fleet of F-16's behind USA.
Turkey knows exactly what its disadvatages are and what its advatages are.
We also modernize for others and build for Egyptians.

We can, to protect Lockheed Martins intellectual rights, reverse-engineer F-16 to Turkish needs. I mean correcting current disadvatages of F-16 design.
Will not cost much. Capabilities we have.
In the end of the day, Turkey has biggest Industrial capabilities in Muslim world.

65 % of industrial products which are exported from Mid-East and North-Africa Regions are "Made in Türkiye".

Source: Foreign Economic Relations Board
http://www.deik.org.tr/deik_baskaninin_mesaji_eng.asp

Oxford Analytica says this:

http://www2.ifc.org/newsflash/docs/MENA_OA407.doc

We are economic, industrial, scientific and military leader of the region. (exclude Israel at scientific output per head)

So USA must ask itself, if it wants to alienate the Turkish Republic, the leader in all terms, in this critical region, who is also widening the gap to other players and who cements this status. Which will last, as Turkey's success has nothing to do with oil-ressources.
We would, USA is touching fundamental security interests of Turkey.
For F-35's we will not sell our Nation's interests.
Click to expand...


LMFAO. Nobody cares, dude ... really. Get a life, huh?
 
GunnyL said:
LMFAO. Nobody cares, dude ... really. Get a life, huh?
Click to expand...

Maybe you not, but maybe the retired Sergeant who thinks Turkey is dependent to USA on economic reasons.
I argument that Turkey is not. Those who care will read and understand.
 
Republican presidential voters can gain voters by blackmailing Democratic Actions against USA interests, of insecureing supply lines and raiseing costs of logistical activities of Army for taxpayers.
This is no conspiracy theory. Everything was known where this will lead to. Reactions of Turkey and Republican senators' standings on foreign commitee of US senate vorting procedure, who voted majorly no.

Republicans say wrong and Democrats say right action.
So Democrats can be held guilty of Turkey's actions to stop supplying of USA army and raising war costs.
Most republicans i heared so far, say it is wrong to USA interests like the senator Graham today on CNN's late edition.
 
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