Turkey ready to enter northern Iraq

[ekrem]

Next "Cumhuriyet Minting" (Republic Meeting) is 20th May in Samsun where Turkish independence war started.
This meeting will be biggest from all with a 3,6 KM long Turkish flag, which will be carried by parts of attending people.

 

[ekrem]

Let's hope they prevail. Because if they do not, forget about NATO and the EU.

Rice praises AKP

(...)
"Even though it is led by the AKP (Justice and Development Party), which has Islamic roots; it has been trying to integrate into Europe," she said. "It's been changing its laws to try to become consistent with European Union requirements for laws on individual and religious freedom and other issues of that kind. And so I think it's very important that we support their democratic processes."
(...)
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=72947


About EU support for current government i will not talk, as it is a known fact.
Explains it all.

 

[ekrem]

10th December 2002. Erdogan visits Bush in White House.
Erdogan's status in this time was a ban from politics in Turkey.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/12/20021210-8.html

The Novermber 3rd elections won by AKP resulted takeing current Foreign Minister that time, overtakeing Prime Ministry office. Gül on 6th March 2003 leaves Prime Ministry office to now ubanned Erdogan.

Now you say me, how your President welcomes in White House a man, who in his country has a political ban and therefore was not even electable in elections? We know here too good, that lifting the political ban was also made by political pressure from USA.
It is USA's interest to weaken secularism in Turkey, so new mixture can be adoptable by Arabs. You know, all that bullshit talking by USA that time of Turkey being an Muslim "model country" by Powell, Bush, Rice.

Eu on other side, talks much about democracy. Like supporting Gül for State President, but did not even mentioned in one sentence ongoing meetings by people on streets itself.

 

[ekrem]

To the Turkish people from their European friends

Urban Ahlin, deputy chairman, foreign affairs committee, Swedish Parliament;
Joschka Fischer, former foreign minister of Germany;
Hans van den Broek, former foreign minister of the Netherlands;
Ana Palacio, former foreign minister of Spain;
Teresa Patrício Gouveia, former foreign minister of Portugal;
Daniel Cohn-Bendit, member of European Parliament;
Andrew Duff, member of European Parliament;
Dan Jørgensen, member of European Parliament;
Joost Lagendijk, member of European Parliament;
Cem Özdemir, member of European Parliament;
Narcis Serra, former vice president of Spain;
Antonio Vitorino, former EU Commissioner;
Lord Kinnock of Bedwellty, former EU Commissioner;
Mark Leonard, European Council on Foreign Relations;
Antonio Missiroli, European Policy Center;
José Cutileiro, former secretary general, WEU;
Diego Hidalgo, FRIDE; Michiel van Hulten, former chair of the Dutch Labor Party;
Stephen Wall, former adviser to the British prime minister.
Marta Dassù, Aspen Institute Italia;
Sarmite Elerte, editor, Diena;
Michael Emerson, Center for European Policy Studies;
Timothy Garton Ash, Oxford University;
Charles Grant, Center for European Reform;
Josef Janning, Bertelsmann Foundation;
Mary Kaldor, London School of Economics;
Gerald Knaus, European Stability Initiative;
Ivan Krastev, Center for Liberal Strategies;
Alain Minc, chairman of Le Monde and head of AM Conseil;
Giles Merritt, Friends of Europe;
Kalypso Nicolaidis, University of Oxford;
Diana Pinto, historian;
Aleksander Smolar, Stefan Batory Foundation;
Dana Spinant, European Voice;
Gijs de Vries, former EU counter-terrorism coordinator;



In recent days Turkey's citizens have been carefully watching the reactions of politicians across Europe and the United States to the memorandum by the Turkish military issued on April 27. In these fraught circumstances, it is vital to send an unambiguous message to Turkish society. We strongly regret this intervention that could harm Turkey's progress as well as its relations with the European Union.

The EU decided to open negotiations with Turkey as a result of a striking sequence of reforms that led the European Commission in 2004 to declare that Turkey substantially met the so-called political Copenhagen criteria. One of these criteria is respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. Another is a functioning democracy, including as a basic principle, full civilian control over the armed forces. The intervention by the military on April 27 throws Turkey's compliance into doubt.

The Turkish military justified this by the need to defend "Turkish secularism." However, the threat to secularism has been overstated. In fact, Turkey has undertaken a number of important reforms, in sectors ranging from women's rights to education, which provide legal protection for secular values. Much remains to be done - including removing the penal code's restrictions on freedom of speech and working to close the gender gap - and we call on the Turkish authorities to vigorously pursue the reform path. But Turkish legislation has never been closer to European standards than today, and many of these changes have been brought about under the current government.

We believe that it is up to the Turkish political process, and to Turkish civil society, to express the preferences of the Turkish public. Large demonstrations, challenges of political decisions in courts and political campaigns are all acceptable tactics in democratic politics. We understand those who are concerned about the concentration of power, but this should not be taken as an excuse for the military to limit democratic government.

Finally, we call on European governments to reaffirm the promises and commitments that the EU has made in the past. Turkey still has much to do before it meets European standards, but by showing solidarity with Turkish democrats, the EU can now help to keep the process on track.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/16/opinion/edlet.php

How sarcastic that is, "Republic Meetings" so far with over millions on different locations of Turkey going to the streets is described in 2 words "large demonstrations" which are from their view "tactics in democratic politics".
Same with USA.

 

[ekrem]

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. jet fighters from Iraq crossed into Turkey in an area where the Turkish military is building up forces in preparation for a possible attack on Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq.

Two U.S. F-16 combat aircraft flew over the southeastern province of Hakkari for four minutes on May 24 in a violation of Turkish airspace, Turkey's army said in a statement on its Web site late yesterday.

The U.S. planes appear to have entered Turkish airspace inadvertently and the incident is under investigation, a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman in Ankara said today in a phone interview.

Turkey, with the second-biggest army in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, has threatened to enter northern Iraq without the approval of the U.S., saying the U.S. has failed to stop militants from the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, from using Iraq as a base from which to attack Turkey. The deaths of six people in a May 22 suicide bombing in the Turkish capital, Ankara, blamed on the PKK, has increased pressure on the government to order an attack.

Turkey has sent tens of thousands of troops to the region bordering Iraq in the last month, saying the operation is to prevent PKK rebels from entering Turkey. Hundreds of tanks are being deployed to reinforce the troops, the Sabah newspaper reported today without saying where it got the information.

U.S. inaction against the PKK has prompted Turkey's parliament to prepare to approve an incursion into Iraq if the army requests it, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said last week.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aDHUn75hDFxA&refer=us

 

[Gunny]

May 28 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. jet fighters from Iraq crossed into Turkey in an area where the Turkish military is building up forces in preparation for a possible attack on Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq.

Two U.S. F-16 combat aircraft flew over the southeastern province of Hakkari for four minutes on May 24 in a violation of Turkish airspace, Turkey's army said in a statement on its Web site late yesterday.

The U.S. planes appear to have entered Turkish airspace inadvertently and the incident is under investigation, a U.S. Embassy spokeswoman in Ankara said today in a phone interview.

Turkey, with the second-biggest army in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, has threatened to enter northern Iraq without the approval of the U.S., saying the U.S. has failed to stop militants from the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, from using Iraq as a base from which to attack Turkey. The deaths of six people in a May 22 suicide bombing in the Turkish capital, Ankara, blamed on the PKK, has increased pressure on the government to order an attack.

Turkey has sent tens of thousands of troops to the region bordering Iraq in the last month, saying the operation is to prevent PKK rebels from entering Turkey. Hundreds of tanks are being deployed to reinforce the troops, the Sabah newspaper reported today without saying where it got the information.

U.S. inaction against the PKK has prompted Turkey's parliament to prepare to approve an incursion into Iraq if the army requests it, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said last week.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aDHUn75hDFxA&refer=us

Talkin' parts done. Bring what you've got so you can get your little bubble burst the same way Saddam and his "4th largest in the world battle-hardened army" got.

Apparently you Turks and your delusions of grandeur have allowed your minds to mistake political confusion on the US's part as an inability to whip y'all's wannabe asses.

Trying to blame the US because you can't keep terrorists out fo your country is LAME.

 

[ekrem]

Talkin' parts done. Bring what you've got so you can get your little bubble burst the same way Saddam and his "4th largest in the world battle-hardened army" got.

Apparently you Turks and your delusions of grandeur have allowed your minds to mistake political confusion on the US's part as an inability to whip y'all's wannabe asses.

Trying to blame the US because you can't keep terrorists out fo your country is LAME.

We will march into Iraq with the understanding, that not every Kurd is a terrorist.
Also we will march in believing USA will stay out. If not, then it is the choice by USA. Accepted.
We are prepared for all possibilities as this is no computer strategy game, including sending you back home to America where you belong to.

And stop talking about someone's ass being whip just look your own situation in Iraq. Switch your brain on.


Our present boarder with Iraq is 2.000 to 5.000 meters high:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Turkey_topo.jpg/800px-Turkey_topo.jpg

It looks like this:
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5777/bgedef12232005om9okpw1.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6350/aaec0013978vuux2.jpg

You on the other side can not even secure boarders to Syria and Iran which are lowlands. Not Mountains as Turkey's boarder.
So can you secure the boarder to Syria and Iran? If yes, is your administration only making propaganda when saying Terrorists cross from there?

Now to Turkey again:

(...)cross-border raids by the PKK that, since the beginning of last year, have accounted for the deaths of 600 people, including many troops.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/22/opinion/edhoge.php
injured people not included.

Now to USA war planes. These were F-16 Block 30, which are deployed in Kerkük.
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=...ghlight=&sid=fc9e0b3f707efb628f4ff4c6fb87931f
Would have been easy to shoot them down, they are not up-to-date.
If the F-16's were intercepted i do not know, but i think not as these planes where 4 minutes in airspace. This is too less for Turkish fighters going to air from base and fly to Iraq boarder.
This was just an spy mission by USA besides satellites spying the force-build up by Turkish army on the boarder.

Talkin' parts done.

Agree. I think informations which were collected by US pilots will acknowledge your quotation.

 

[onedomino]

Invade Iraq and not only will your military be made to regret it, but Turkey could then forget about getting in the EU (which so far the US has backed), and would likely be expelled from NATO (your participation is useless anyway). Forget about the 30 F-16 for which Turkey just signed a deal with the US. Forget about the 100 F35 JSF that Turkey has invested in, and hopes to have America deliver by 2014 (maybe we'll send those to Greece). Turkey will have to be content with second rate stuff from its old enemies in the new Soviet Union. Or maybe you can buy some French fighters. But then again, you won't be able to do that because it is the French that want to keep Turkey out of the EU. Looks like you'll be stuck with the new Soviets. Your country is no ally of the US. From blocking the 4th ID's northern route at the beginning of the Iraq war in 2003, to the hateful lies expressed daily in your media about America, we have come to expect nothing from Turkey. Invade Iraq and you will have a Kurdish problem forever. Hopefully, reasonable people in your country will prevail, and Turkey will stay on its side of the border.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There have been an awful lot of Kurdish guerrilla attacks against the Turks as of late, coming from the Iraqi side of the border.

If the US had any concept of pre-emptive diplomacy, it would be trying to bring the Turks & Kurds into a "trust but verify" security relationship w/ a small contingent of US forces to accompany their joint patrols on the border.

There is a lot of money to be made for both sides. A pity neither will place that potential windfall and investment climate above national pride.

IF the Kurds in Iraq are mounting attacks or aiding attacks in Turkey then the US should do something about it, plain and simple. Turkey has a problem with how it treats the kurds and the US should address that issue as well. BUT we should not appear to be supporting terror ourself.

 

[Gunny]

We will march into Iraq with the understanding, that not every Kurd is a terrorist.
Also we will march in believing USA will stay out. If not, then it is the choice by USA. Accepted.
We are prepared for all possibilities as this is no computer strategy game, including sending you back home to America where you belong to.

And stop talking about someone's ass being whip just look your own situation in Iraq. Switch your brain on.

Perhaps you better switch YOURS on. We aren't fighting a war in Iraq. We're sitting in the middle of one. When Iraq was purely a military operation it took us what ... 2-3 weeks to secure the ENTIRE country?

I most certainly HOPE your pitiful-ass army tries to send the US home. As previously stated, fools like you would get a sudden wake-up as to just what you DON'T have.


Our present boarder with Iraq is 2.000 to 5.000 meters high:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Turkey_topo.jpg/800px-Turkey_topo.jpg

It looks like this:
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/5777/bgedef12232005om9okpw1.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6350/aaec0013978vuux2.jpg

You on the other side can not even secure boarders to Syria and Iran which are lowlands. Not Mountains as Turkey's boarder.
So can you secure the boarder to Syria and Iran? If yes, is your administration only making propaganda when saying Terrorists cross from there?

Now to Turkey again:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/22/opinion/edhoge.php
injured people not included.

Now to USA war planes. These were F-16 Block 30, which are deployed in Kerkük.
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=...ghlight=&sid=fc9e0b3f707efb628f4ff4c6fb87931f
Would have been easy to shoot them down, they are not up-to-date.
If the F-16's were intercepted i do not know, but i think not as these planes where 4 minutes in airspace. This is too less for Turkish fighters going to air from base and fly to Iraq boarder.
This was just an spy mission by USA besides satellites spying the force-build up by Turkish army on the boarder.


Agree. I think informations which were collected by US pilots will acknowledge your quotation.

And THIS is the whole problem with situations like Iraq. It makes every two-bit punk in the neighborhood suddenly think they are contenders for the title.

If ANY of your pilots had attempted to intercept US pilots they'd have been shot down. Period. NO ONE on Earth can compete with US pilots.

I just can't help but laugh at what a complete and utter fool you are.

 

[ekrem]

Invade Iraq and not only will your military be made to regret it, but Turkey could then forget about getting in the EU (which so far the US has backed), and would likely be expelled from NATO (your participation is useless anyway). Forget about the 30 F-16 for which Turkey just signed a deal with the US. Forget about the 100 F35 JSF that Turkey has invested in, and hopes to have America deliver by 2014 (maybe we'll send those to Greece). Turkey will have to be content with second rate stuff from its old enemies in the new Soviet Union. Or maybe you can buy some French fighters. But then again, you won't be able to do that because it is the French that want to keep Turkey out of the EU. Looks like you'll be stuck with the new Soviets. Your country is no ally of the US. From blocking the 4th ID's northern route at the beginning of the Iraq war in 2003, to the hateful lies expressed daily in your media about America, we have come to expect nothing from Turkey. Invade Iraq and you will have a Kurdish problem forever. Hopefully, reasonable people in your country will prevail, and Turkey will stay on its side of the border.

Military strategies get build-up on 3 parameters:
- geography/location
- force/units
- time

You can add to this the strategy of engaging Terrorists where they are rather then doing this in your own country.
Turkey is in this position where it is forced to fight Terrorists in its own country, as so far Turkey was not willing to take relations at risk with USA by marching into Iraq.
Times change and read the International herald Tribune Link, which says in your english language understandable to you, that since the beginning of last year 600 people died by these Terrorist cross-boarder raids.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/22/opinion/edhoge.php
Include to this the injured people and family members of murdered people then you maybe can imagine what my position on this forum is.

Last week in Turkish capital exploded a PKK suicide bomber with A4 explosive from Iraq killing 6 people wounding more then 100 people. So you can hope for reasonable people in Turkey like you wish, mechanism to solve this issue by goodwill and expectation from USA and waiting is clearly over.
You all can small talk Turkiye, but we have duty to protect our people and follow our interests.
We can not pass this duty to other states and rely on their goodwill.
We are an independent state and can not loose our threat potential to enemies in this region by letting Terrorists play with Turkey by hit-and-run strategy without fearing consequences where they ex-territorial hide.
And this should be clear to all of you, when we go in, we are not going to leave soon and nobody will force us out.

This move will collide with USA interests and Turkey marching into Iraq is a disaster for USA. So for years you had the possibility and legal responsibilty as occupiers to hinder Terrorist attacks from North-Iraq carried into Turkey.

Do you really expect us to wait, wait and further wait whilst Terror is being carried in our country and being exercised harming people? If you do expect this then we disagree completely.
So what is your solution asking rhetorically as your administration did not even tried for a solution the ongoing years and therefore this Terrorism against Turkey will be solved by military action?

Should we negotiate with Terrorists is this your solution? Why do you not negotiate with Al-Qaeda? Let us then arrange diplomatic negotiations between Bush and Osama Bin Laden.
The situation is like 1998. Almost same coordinates but Iraq taking this time Syria's role.
Back then we also massed 150.000 Soldiers on Syrian boarder and made them ultimatum to force PKK out of their country and stop supporting PKK-Terrorism.
Syrians did take this serious and threat-potential did the rest.
Now it is same with Iraq.

We can not let our threat-potential going to comedy as this will influence our security in the long run. We have to take a stance, that every supporter of Anti-Turkish Terrorists will get punished.
Your so-called "lightsource of democracy in Mid-East (Iraq)" is a shit against us. Today and in the past as we did marched into Iraq in 80s and 90s multiple times.
Nothing they could do.

Today the difference is USA. When PKK is able to have their bases, logistic + training centers in North-Iraq then it is because USA lets this happen.
Why do you therefore feel in a position to criticize Turkish anti-americanism?
Where is the point in urging Anti-Americanism in Turkey, when Terrorists attack Turkey from US-occupied Iraq and whilst USA bombed kurdish Ansar Al-Islam in North-Iraq it does not so to PKK, which is by USA itself recognized as a Terrorist organization?

It is like our generals say, nowhere on earth, not even in Afghanistan Terrorists are acting so freely as in Northern-Iraq.
For this to recognize as an American you have to open your eyes and see that Terrorism is being carried from Iraq to Turkey and these terrorists act there freely without fear of consequences from either USA or Kurdish administration.
But as Turks we do not wonder about this situation, as our so-called NATO-allies instrumentalist Terror against Turkey.
It is not the question about Terrorists theirself, but who feeds, harbours and support them.

Turkish General Says Many NATO Members Support Terrorism in Turkey

"Who feeds terrorist groups? Who's behind them? That's what we need to look at," said Yasar Buyukanit, Turkey's military chief.
(...)

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=45217

So you should realize that this situation will not go on like it is. And i am angry myself that so far nothing has been done. Namely marching into Iraq.
The contrast between History against our neighbours who supported Terrorism and cautiously acting of today shows what is at stake for Turkey by marching into Iraq whilst USA is still in. Complete destruction of relations and possibility to face, face to face. Either direct or indirect. You know, there can be elements too, which can provoke conflict between Turkish and US troops in Iraq.
Only this reason postponed our counter-actions to this point.

There is no doubt, that we tried to postpone our actions to win more occasions to convince USA to act against these terrorists. This strategy/mechanism of only talking does not lead to results.
So we will act, there is no doubt about this, and comeing back to the beginning of my post it is all about 3 parameters: location, force and time.
Time will tell.
So long you do not have any credibility to criticize anti-Americanism as long as i do not offend you personally. I, and there i can speak for my nation, do not take this feeling reasonless out of my ass.

@GunnyL
US pilots have overall most flight hours in F-16.
Turkey has second most flight experience with F-16 in the world.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_pilots_airforce-TUAF.html

Plus Turkish pilots engage over Aegean in dogfights on daily basis with Greece fighter pilots.
Both nations lost total around 30 jets in such dogfight actions by crashes in the air. Last Greek dead pilot happened in 2006
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/05/23/greece.crash/index.html
Just search in Youtube with words "dogfight" and you will find enough material over the aegean.
Do not underestimate other forces especially NATO forces of this size, my advice to you. In knowledge that USA will infect more damage on Turkey, we will cause you casualties in dimensions, your liberal people will revolt in Washington to bring your Soldiers home while 1 day of actions is even not passed.

 

[Gunny]

Military strategies get build-up on 3 parameters:
- geography/location
- force/units
- time

You can add to this the strategy of engaging Terrorists where they are rather then doing this in your own country.
Turkey is in this position where it is forced to fight Terrorists in its own country, as so far Turkey was not willing to take relations at risk with USA by marching into Iraq.
Times change and read the International herald Tribune Link, which says in your english language understandable to you, that since the beginning of last year 600 people died by these Terrorist cross-boarder raids.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/22/opinion/edhoge.php
Include to this the injured people and family members of murdered people then you maybe can imagine what my position on this forum is.

Last week in Turkish capital exploded a PKK suicide bomber with A4 explosive from Iraq killing 6 people wounding more then 100 people. So you can hope for reasonable people in Turkey like you wish, mechanism to solve this issue by goodwill and expectation from USA and waiting is clearly over.
You all can small talk Turkiye, but we have duty to protect our people and follow our interests.
We can not pass this duty to other states and rely on their goodwill.
We are an independent state and can not loose our threat potential to enemies in this region by letting Terrorists play with Turkey by hit-and-run strategy without fearing consequences where they ex-territorial hide.
And this should be clear to all of you, when we go in, we are not going to leave soon and nobody will force us out.

This move will collide with USA interests and Turkey marching into Iraq is a disaster for USA. So for years you had the possibility and legal responsibilty as occupiers to hinder Terrorist attacks from North-Iraq carried into Turkey.

Do you really expect us to wait, wait and further wait whilst Terror is being carried in our country and being exercised harming people? If you do expect this then we disagree completely.
So what is your solution asking rhetorically as your administration did not even tried for a solution the ongoing years and therefore this Terrorism against Turkey will be solved by military action?

Should we negotiate with Terrorists is this your solution? Why do you not negotiate with Al-Qaeda? Let us then arrange diplomatic negotiations between Bush and Osama Bin Laden.
The situation is like 1998. Almost same coordinates but Iraq taking this time Syria's role.
Back then we also massed 150.000 Soldiers on Syrian boarder and made them ultimatum to force PKK out of their country and stop supporting PKK-Terrorism.
Syrians did take this serious and threat-potential did the rest.
Now it is same with Iraq.

We can not let our threat-potential going to comedy as this will influence our security in the long run. We have to take a stance, that every supporter of Anti-Turkish Terrorists will get punished.
Your so-called "lightsource of democracy in Mid-East (Iraq)" is a shit against us. Today and in the past as we did marched into Iraq in 80s and 90s multiple times.
Nothing they could do.

Today the difference is USA. When PKK is able to have their bases, logistic + training centers in North-Iraq then it is because USA lets this happen.
Why do you therefore feel in a position to criticize Turkish anti-americanism?
Where is the point in urging Anti-Americanism in Turkey, when Terrorists attack Turkey from US-occupied Iraq and whilst USA bombed kurdish Ansar Al-Islam in North-Iraq it does not so to PKK, which is by USA itself recognized as a Terrorist organization?

It is like our generals say, nowhere on earth, not even in Afghanistan Terrorists are acting so freely as in Northern-Iraq.
For this to recognize as an American you have to open your eyes and see that Terrorism is being carried from Iraq to Turkey and these terrorists act there freely without fear of consequences from either USA or Kurdish administration.
But as Turks we do not wonder about this situation, as our so-called NATO-allies instrumentalist Terror against Turkey.
It is not the question about Terrorists theirself, but who feeds, harbours and support them.



http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=45217

So you should realize that this situation will not go on like it is. And i am angry myself that so far nothing has been done. Namely marching into Iraq.
The contrast between History against our neighbours who supported Terrorism and cautiously acting of today shows what is at stake for Turkey by marching into Iraq whilst USA is still in. Complete destruction of relations and possibility to face, face to face. Either direct or indirect. You know, there can be elements too, which can provoke conflict between Turkish and US troops in Iraq.
Only this reason postponed our counter-actions to this point.

There is no doubt, that we tried to postpone our actions to win more occasions to convince USA to act against these terrorists. This strategy/mechanism of only talking does not lead to results.
So we will act, there is no doubt about this, and comeing back to the beginning of my post it is all about 3 parameters: location, force and time.
Time will tell.
So long you do not have any credibility to criticize anti-Americanism as long as i do not offend you personally. I, and there i can speak for my nation, do not take this feeling reasonless out of my ass.

@GunnyL
US pilots have overall most flight hours in F-16.
Turkey has second most flight experience with F-16 in the world.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_pilots_airforce-TUAF.html

Plus Turkish pilots engage over Aegean in dogfights on daily basis with Greece fighter pilots.
Both nations lost total around 30 jets in such dogfight actions by crashes in the air. Last Greek dead pilot happened in 2006
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/05/23/greece.crash/index.html
Just search in Youtube with words "dogfight" and you will find enough material over the aegean.
Do not underestimate other forces especially NATO forces of this size, my advice to you. In knowledge that USA will infect more damage on Turkey, we will cause you casualties in dimensions, your liberal people will revolt in Washington to bring your Soldiers home while 1 day of actions is even not passed.

My advice to you is to knock some of that nationalist blindness out of your skull and get a reality check. Please DO try and remember that a good percentage of your so-called "self-defense" requires US to do it for you.

I see you are also not up to snuff on how the US military is deployed. The liberals in Washington have NO say in military retaliation. And just in case you've missed the past 6 years, there's a Texas redneck who DOES have all the say, and hsi past actions have not been to take any shit off two-bit, third world crapholes.

 

[ekrem]

My advice to you is to knock some of that nationalist blindness out of your skull and get a reality check. Please DO try and remember that a good percentage of your so-called "self-defense" requires US to do it for you.

I see you are also not up to snuff on how the US military is deployed. The liberals in Washington have NO say in military retaliation. And just in case you've missed the past 6 years, there's a Texas redneck who DOES have all the say, and hsi past actions have not been to take any shit off two-bit, third world crapholes.

What i should remeber?
Remember implies you are pointing to past events, when you talk about security. To first mind comes the cold-war if you do mean this:

Turkey may not be the reason the USA won the cold war but it surely is the reason why the Soviets didn't win the cold war. Turkey was the key country that prevented socialist Middle Eastern states from connecting with Soviet Eastern Europe and the Soviet Caucasus.

You understand? Turkey not takeing place at the side of NATO meant that the old world would be a communist Eastern Europe, Communist Caucasus, socialist Mid-Eastern states and communist Caucasus without territorial interruption.
http://www.steinbergrecherche.com/20060412 eurasia grau.jpg

 

[Gunny]

What i should remeber?
Remember implies you are pointing to past events, when you talk about security. To first mind comes the cold-war if you do mean this:

Turkey may not be the reason the USA won the cold war but it surely is the reason why the Soviets didn't win the cold war. Turkey was the key country that prevented socialist Middle Eastern states from connecting with Soviet Eastern Europe and the Soviet Caucasus.

You understand? Turkey not takeing place at the side of NATO meant that the old world would be a communist Eastern Europe, Communist Caucasus, socialist Mid-Eastern states and communist Caucasus without territorial interruption.
http://www.steinbergrecherche.com/20060412 eurasia grau.jpg

Apparently you do NOT understand. Turkey was a US/NATO puppet, and NATO itself not worth anything beyond what the US would back. If Turkey was not a strategically located piece of land, y'all woulf more than likely STILL have little red stars on your fez's.

 

[onedomino]

Turkey is possibly the most anti American country on the planet, far exceeding Iran. The Tercuman, a "moderate" Turk newspaper has bragged "we are the gold medalists in anti-Americanism." Google "Turkey anti Americanism" and you get hundreds, if not thousands, of pages: http://www.google.com/search?q=turkey+anti+americanism&hl=en&start=0&sa=N. Consider this page from the Middle East Media Research Institute: http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP87005. Included is Turk media information that reveals Turkey as the leader of all nations surveyed when the BBC inquired about anti Americanism. The Turk result: 82 percent have a negative view of the US. From the Turk Mill Gazete, an Islamic daily paper comes: "Bush is America's Hitler. Like Hitler, he too has become a curse for the world. If the world's sensible leaders don't unite against Bush to stop him, a great number of people will die because of his ambitions. Hitler was very racist. Bush, who is an ally of the Zionists, belongs to the racist philosophy too. The beliefs of Bush's evangelical church coupled with Jewish racism, which exceeds Hitler's, are sufficient proof that the 'Sharon and Bush duo' are militants of the same fanatical philosophy." From Dunya, a daily business newspaper: "the USA is the biggest danger for Turkey, today and in the future. At the present the U.S.A. is run by an incompetent, very aggressive, true enemy of Islam, brainwashed with evangelical nonsense, a blood-thirsty team that is a loyal link in Israel's command and control chain." What a waste of US resources it was to protect Turkey from the Soviet Union for over 50 years.

 

[onedomino]

You can add to this the strategy of engaging Terrorists where they are rather then doing this in your own country.

Al Qaeda has set off bombs in Turkey, yet you do nothing to help fight Al Qaeda in Iraq. Now the PKK sets off bombs in Turkey and you want to invade Iraq. Tell me, what is the difference? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Istanbul_bombings

 

[onedomino]

Where were these guys when Al Qaeda set off bombs in Turkey? Why did they not help America fight Al Qaeda in Iraq? Now because it is the PKK they want to invade Iraq.

Complete article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070530/ts_nm/turkey_kurds_iraq_dc

Turkish Army Build-up Fuels Anxiety on Iraq Border
By Daren Butler

Turkey sent more tanks to its border with Iraq on Wednesday in a military build-up that is fuelling U.S. concern about a possible incursion into northern Iraq against Kurdish rebels.

A group of 20 tanks loaded on trucks emerged from army barracks in Mardin near Syria and headed towards the Iraqi border in southeast Turkey, already the scene of a major army offensive against rebels of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

Speculation about an imminent incursion into Iraq has grown since Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said last week he saw eye to eye with the army over possible military action, despite unease in the United States, Turkey's NATO ally, about such a move.

 

[ekrem]

Where were these guys when Al Qaeda set off bombs in Turkey? Why did they not help America fight Al Qaeda in Iraq? Now because it is the PKK they want to invade Iraq.

onedomino, don't mix things up.

We punished all people involved in these attacks. Over 70 were caught and about 40 people were guilty. People involved in these attacks are in jail, Including the 2 Syrians which were head of this Terror-cell, who called himself Turkey-Chief of Al-Qaeda, El-Saka and Hamid Obysi.
El-Saka, which had direct contact to Bin Laden and Zarkawi was captured in Southeastern-Turkey in an airport with a false Turkish passport, and the other was caught trying to flee over Syrian boarder.
2 further people involved in these attacks fled to Iraq, and according to Turkish intelligence information, they were murdered in Iraq.


In contrast, responsible persons for PKK-Bombings still act and walk freely in North-Iraq.

 

[ekrem]

Something from history, you may want to read, onedomino:

October 2003:

Turkey to send troops to Iraq
The Turkish parliament has voted to send troops to help US-led forces in neighbouring Iraq - alarming some members of the US-appointed Governing Council in Baghdad.

Turkish troops
Turkey has sent troops into Iraq in the past to pursue Kurdish rebels

Turkish MPs backed the deployment by 358 votes, with 183 votes against, a day after the government decided to send up to 10,000 troops to help stabilise Iraq.

Iraq's 15-member Governing Council initially said it opposed the Turkish move, but a formal statement on it was delayed and the Council later spoke only of "concerns" about Turkish troops.

The Council is due to discuss the deployment with Iraq's US administrator Paul Bremer on Wednesday, Council President Iyad Allawi said.

A Kurdish member of the Council, Mahmoud Othman, described the deployment as "the wrong thing to do", saying "it does not add to security, it is not useful".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3172228.stm

The USA itself, that time under Collin Powell, requested the troops from Turkey.
Paul Bremer instead refused the plan under pressure of Kurds.
I do not know exact number of British troops in Iraq, but Turkish presence would have been equivalent to British presence, and most importantly, Turkish troops under this parliament decision would have been deployed into Tikrit-Falluja-Bagdad triangle.
Military presence is one thing, the other would have been Turkish red cross, and other civil organizations comeing together with Turkish troops. As well sending Turkish female troops, knowing cultural specialties of Sunnite Arabs, asTurks are Sunnites too.
Later as USA did in surges, Troop increasing would have been possible, too.

U.S. plan to send 10,000 Turkish troops to Iraq has Kurdish leaders outraged -- and analysts of all stripes incredulous at its folly

http://old.krg.org/docs/articles/goldberg-michelle-betraying-again-oct03.asp

 

[ekrem]

Turkish officials have said the troops could be deployed mainly in Sunni Muslim areas of central Iraq, where US forces have been attacked repeatedly.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3172228.stm