Trump's Dieselgate?: How The GOP/BigOil Powers Intend To Smash Efficient Cars Again

[danielpalos]

I think you just need to do more market research. We even have an Information Age; simply email the Firm you prefer, and merely ask them for better products at lower cost.

Well that would keep it private and out of the public eye for sure... Which isn't the intent with this thread so..? The intent of this thread is to make auto manufacturers and BigOil and America more prosperous by making intelligent decisions in their future models for vehicles via the public being aware of what they're up to.

The days of the old clunkers at 12mpg are gone guys. We need to mass produce cars that Europe & Asia will buy at $6/gallon gas or ? diesel. Electric cars will of course consume oil in the end when you have to figure out how to produce the power to plug them into. Unless they're using the linear solar thermal fresnel/carbon hybrid power plants?

The American economy's recovery cannot be trusted to a few cagey, wily rich dudes who don't think beyond the end of five years. This is a long haul that needs all hands on deck. We aren't going to dig ourselves out of foreign debt by producing cars nobody will/can buy...

it is about Standing as a Customer. You can Always be right, at least twice a day, and they have to put up with you.

 

[Silhouette]

I think you just need to do more market research. We even have an Information Age; simply email the Firm you prefer, and merely ask them for better products at lower cost.

Well that would keep it private and out of the public eye for sure... Which isn't the intent with this thread so..? The intent of this thread is to make auto manufacturers and BigOil and America more prosperous by making intelligent decisions in their future models for vehicles via the public being aware of what they're up to.

The days of the old clunkers at 12mpg are gone guys. We need to mass produce cars that Europe & Asia will buy at $6/gallon gas or ? diesel. Electric cars will of course consume oil in the end when you have to figure out how to produce the power to plug them into. Unless they're using the linear solar thermal fresnel/carbon hybrid power plants?

The American economy's recovery cannot be trusted to a few cagey, wily rich dudes who don't think beyond the end of five years. This is a long haul that needs all hands on deck. We aren't going to dig ourselves out of foreign debt by producing cars nobody will/can buy...

it is about Standing as a Customer. You can Always be right, at least twice a day, and they have to put up with you.

I bolded the part above that you apparently missed reading..

 

[Silhouette]

The whole point of the discussion here is for people to realize that what Detroit decides to do with its new car lines...and industrial sabotage of the efficient car in general is ...pardon the pun....going to backfire not just on those companies...but on the US economy as a whole. Possibly for the last time. So this isn't just a "consumer vs industry" conversation. It's a People of the United States of America conversation with an entire industry scheme poised to take us all down.

 

[Jarlaxle]

well, I have the 06 Jetta TDI... If asked overall average for highway I would guess it to be around 55 mpg.
The brand new ones supposedly dont get that now.
....its all about the horse power weight ratio. say you have 400 hp, and your vehicle weighs 8000 lbs, without resistance it might take 250 hp to move the truck. now start factoring in the energy to compress the air and you might end up using 350 of that 400 HP your available power to compress the air is reduced so inadvertently the top speed while towing is also reduced along with the fuel economy.

Yes, so if you build a boxy-shaped heavy vehicle with a gasoline engine which is underpowered for the size of the vehicle, you consume enormous amounts of fuel to push it forward. Strap it down with a bunch of unnecessary emission-controls (selling it as "green" to idiot lefties), it's even worse. Put those controls in the tailpipe's catalytic converter instead of putting particulate platinum in near the combustion area instead and you're wasting even more fuel. What lefties aren't doing the math on is how many more gallons of fuel will have to be burned to move the car between two points.

Build a streamlined jetta like VW has using diesel's high torque and power compared to weaker gasoline engines, reining in emission-control-overkill and you get 50mpg. Many jettas were using what a 1.9 liter motor and getting great power and mileage. Jettas aren't light vehicles by the way; try to push a dead one with your friends. Try running a 1.9 liter gas motor in a jetta body...lol... It might make it out of your driveway...maybe. Diesels are superior to gasoline, period. Much less fuel burned (and going into the atmosphere therefore) than the "green" "emissions controlled" gas clunker.

BigOil knows all this all too well and has for decades. That's why when clean-air Europe drives the crap out of small passenger diesel cars, you only extremely rarely see windows open, then quickly slam shut over here on opportunities to buy one. BigOil doesn't want Americans seeing their neighbors bragging at BBQs about how their jetta or bug gets 50-60 mpg highway routinely. That puts BigOil out of business. Add to that that diesel can be cut with biofuels grown from algae and other bio sources, and BigOil gets doubly scared.

Odd that "suddenly" VW has a big emissions scam. I vote that the person(s) responsible at VW were paid well in their moonlight job of saboteurs for BigOil.

You mean like the 1.6, 1.8, and 2.0 litre gas engines that powered Jettas for decades? The 1.8 making LESS power than the 90hp TDI. The 2.0 making only a bit more. (110 versus 90 or 100)

Loosen your tinfoil hat, Silly.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I agree with you on the Ford looking like a snow plow, too much front end on those things, pushing some serious air going down the road. I prefer the smaller surface area of the GMs, I would much rather use my horsepower pulling a load than pushing air.

You think they engineered them that way by accident? Same goes with the emissions burning excess fuel in the tail pipe instead of putting that particulate platinum in the combustion phase. "Better" (for BigOil) that you use less fuel going forward and more in the tail pipe doing nothing but running up people's gas bills. If you're going to burn recirculated fuel somewhere to make the car greener, best to do it where the car uses less gas to get from point A to B yes?

Ye gods...

More power and more towing ability means a need for more cooling. More cooling means a larger radiator. A larger radiator means a larger grille opening. A larger grille opening means a higher front fascia. This is NOT complicated! That's why commercial trucks have huge grilles...they need the cooling capacity!

Also...a blunt front end can certainly be streamlined. Off the top of my head, a 1992 Crown victoria (the most-streamlined Vic) and a new Charger have EXACTLY the same drag coefficient!

 

[JBond]

Pristine air? Funny stuff OP.

London on pollution 'high alert' due to cold air, traffic, and wood burning

 

[Jarlaxle]

In another respect, however, the scandal has been counterproductive. It may have started the demise of diesel cars and spurred the expansion of electric vehicles and hybrids, but it hasn't convinced governments -- as it should have -- that a carbon tax would work better than tough emission standards for cars.

Electric vehicles and hybrids are great; if they hone how to power them up. I've suggested linear fresnel solar thermal arrays to power "juicing" stations. Would be especially wonderful in areas like the Southwest, Southern California. I hear they have a few vehicles there...lol. 6 lanes packed bumper to bumper at rush hour would be better with solar/electric cars.

Diesels mitigate their emissions by how much more efficient they are. And they've become cleaner. How much smog do you remember seeing in European cities recently? All they drive over there are efficient small diesel cars. Either electric or diesel would be great. Diesel is what delivers low-end torque needed for larger loads and hauling so? I'd have one of both actually. Electric daily-driver and also a diesel for hauling hay and larger groups of passengers/luggage.

There have been a lot of problems with pollution in Paris and other places, especially due to diesel. The horrible two strokes engines contribute, too, but as all internal combustion engines are so inefficient, the fault is common. Until we get past the dependence on this archaic technology, automobiles should be limited to no more than 1 liter displacement and 100 horsepower.

You first.

 

[Jarlaxle]

From last post:

This is the biggest and boldest Volkswagen we have ever built in the United States, delivering the distinctive design and craftsmanship we're known for, now with room for seven," Hinrich Woebcken, CEO Volkswagen's North America region, said in a statement. "The Atlas marks a brand-new journey for Volkswagen to enter into the heart of the American market."..

Yeah, because the "big demand" for daily-drivers are for those that have "room for seven"....and get TERRIBLE gas mileage. So far I've not seen a link to the actual mileage either the larger-powered (more expensive/less bought) or under-powered (less expensive, predominantly bought) VW Atlas gets. And that means it's not good news... A big, heavy SUV with a tiny 2.0 liter engine. Golly, I'll bet it gets what, like 10mpg city and 14 highway?

I want to see data on why VW must be trusted for a model that will dump way more fuel gases into the environment while at the same time "we cannot trust VW's small diesel commuters because of "emission concerns!". Aren't the same people running the same shop??? Either we scrutinize all their products or we don't. Yep, there's definitely something fishy going on...

238hp is hardly underpowered...it is probably Vw's turbo four cylinder. I've driven many large vehicles with less power.

 

[there4eyeM]

Overblown, useless vehicles are a big middle finger at children, the elderly, all those with respiratory problems, and, in fact, everyone. But, we know the owners don't care, and that saddens us while sickening us even more. We don't even bother to shame them any more, because they are shameless.
Happy motoring!

 

[SavannahMann]

Overblown, useless vehicles are a big middle finger at children, the elderly, all those with respiratory problems, and, in fact, everyone. But, we know the owners don't care, and that saddens us while sickening us even more. We don't even bother to shame them any more, because they are shameless.
Happy motoring!

Safety is part of the reason many prefer bigger cars. A larger car has a correspondingly bigger area to absorb impacts. The larger area reduces the G load on the occupants and reduces the probability of intrusion into the passenger compartment.

A Smart Car has a type of roll cage to accomplish this same task. But without that crumple zone, the G load will be higher. That increases the risk of broken bones and internal injuries.

It is the difference between falling off of a three story building into empty cardboard boxes or hitting the ground. In one you might get some injury, in the other you will get injured, probably severely.

Now the additional mass means more weight. That weight resists the effort to get going. Again for safety you need a more powerful engine to get the mass moving. You may be able to move the car up to freeway speed with 80 horsepower. But that also means you will need a prohibitively long time to accomplish that task. Merging onto the freeway at a low speed means cars traveling along faster have to slow down, or swerve to avoid. This creates a chain reaction often causing an accident. More injuries and possibly death as your car take a minute to achieve 60 MPH.

Also the smaller engine in that car has to run wide open to get the car moving, or keep it moving. Picture a bag of sugar. It weighs four or five pounds. A child will struggle to lift it and carry it inside. The child strains with all their might to move that weight. By the same token, an adult carries it with ease. The child burns fewer calories than the adult, but uses more to move that weight.

If you have a heavy car with a small engine you will spend a lot more time with your foot flat down giving full power to try and merge with traffic.

Then there is type of driving. A Prius has great fuel mileage in the city. This is because it isn't burning much gas as it waits at lights or pokes through city traffic. That same Prius has terrible highway mileage. The engine has to run almost flat out to provide the power to get up to speed and maintain highway speed.

Hybrid Cars Myths and Modes of Operation

So if you spend a lot of time traveling for work or pleasure, a Prius may not be the best choice.

Finally there is comfort. A four cylinder engine has two bangs per revolution. Half the cylinders fire on each revolution. This means more vibration which tends to tire the driver out faster on long trips. An engine with more cylinders tends to have less vibration, which means a more comfortable driving experience on longer trips. A W-12 engine uses more fuel than a flat four, but is smoother and well suited for longer trips. It also has far more power and often has cylinder saving modes. That is to say that some of the time the engine steps down to a right or even six cylinder engine by not fueling and firing all the cylinders every revolution. This is possible with fuel injection.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Overblown, useless vehicles are a big middle finger at children, the elderly, all those with respiratory problems, and, in fact, everyone. But, we know the owners don't care, and that saddens us while sickening us even more. We don't even bother to shame them any more, because they are shameless.
Happy motoring!

you do understand that putting a blower on a car increases the fuel density in the cylinder right? Im sure you also understand that increased density equates to increased mileage. So if you have an engine with a turbo (which I think you mean by blown) you are going to increase the mileage as long as you keep your foot out of it.

 

[Silhouette]

you do understand that putting a blower on a car increases the fuel density in the cylinder right? Im sure you also understand that increased density equates to increased mileage.

Wrong. Turbos increase air flow which increases the aerosol effect (spread out, not dense!) of the air-fuel mix. Since oxygen is flammable, this incorporates more air into the explosion, which means LESS FUEL. This is why the turbo diesel is KING on fuel efficiency. Add biofuel to that diesel mix and you're really divorcing yourself from the Middle East...and fracking...and hence the reason this thread exists. Also, the cooler the air, the better it works to burn fuel more efficiently. So look for heaters to be installed in the fore areas of any turbo intakes in Detroit..

BigOil doesn't want you getting better mileage or understanding how cars and engine types really work.. If you use more fluffy fuel (less fuel, more air) and cut it with biofuels, they make less money. (unless they're smart and lobby their bed buddies in Congress to let them monopolize biofuels...duh...) And their cronies, heavy invested in the Middle East and carving our foreign policy and military budgets (which they also get VERY fat on for decades.. and have by overcharging the public), will also lose money. You want to know why our economy is in the septic tank and probably wont' crawl out? It's HOW WE MAKE CARS that is the root of it.

It's a similar situation with bigNuke. Nuclear plants don't want the public knowing that all their tax dollars going into that trough, that black hole... at a zero-profit (nuclear plants have never been profitable since they were built...relying 100% on subsidies to stay afloat) merely boil water. That's all nuclear plants do. And when we already have free radiation that boils water belting down from the sun, it makes them mad when people discover what a scam they are....and that the sun...and geothermal heat resources can be running these steam turbines with clean carbon as a backup.

Our energy is literally an elaborate scam, by a host of scam artists all piling up in line to siphon the US Treasury when they know how to do it more efficiently, cheaply AND STILL MAKE A TON OF MONEY...by getting their buddies in Congress to let them monopolize. Like the deal most energy companies struck to monopolize entire regions to produce power.

Go ahead...we'll pay the same at the pump. Or the meter at home. We don't care. Just use clean and efficient energy and save yourselves money charging the same...for fuck's sake. Our Treasury cannot take another decade of the BigOil BigEnergy scam rackets.. This corporate welfare program has gone on long enough. Rich people on welfare make me sick to my stomach. I don't know how they can look at themselves in the mirror knowing our beautiful and grand country is going down the tubes as they squeeze the last dollar out of her; as they buy private islands and offshore accounts...& strike backroom deals with the Russians and Arabs.. to tide themselves over into their golden years.. They got their horse farm and yacht. Fuck America.. Who cares? Well I do. And even if we wanted to let them continue, our economic situation says we can't.

 

[there4eyeM]

Turbos run on hot air. Blowers suck wind. Rampant waste is inhumanly stupid.

 

[Silhouette]

Turbos run on hot air. Blowers suck wind. Rampant waste is inhumanly stupid.

The cooler the air intake the more efficient a turbo is. So you must be referring to the type of purposeful engineering that renders cars less efficient. See my last post.

 

[Dreadnaught1968]

The new Chevy Cruse Diesel gets 52 mpg on the highway. Doesn't look like diesel is going away anytime soon.

 

[there4eyeM]

The recip is such an antiquated design!

 

[Reasonable]

Trump's goal for America.
A smog infested country.

 

[Markle]

Sure. Because sun-powered cars don't pose a threat to their enterprise at all.

That's like saying "coke doesn't mind at all if pepsi gets their hands on their formula".

Who Trump picked as his Secretary of State is a direct harbinger of what he has in mind as to favors for "coke" where "pepsi" is involved...

Sun powered cars? Are you kidding? Who is saying that you cannot manufacture them? Maybe you'll get a dozen far left Progressive Hollywood celebrities to buy one. Where do they go from there?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Turbos run on hot air. Blowers suck wind. Rampant waste is inhumanly stupid.

The cooler the air intake the more efficient a turbo is. So you must be referring to the type of purposeful engineering that renders cars less efficient. See my last post.

No, Silly...most (I think all, now) turbocharged engines use aftercoolers, and have for years. Many that didn't were that way simply for packaging reasons. (My wife's Blazer is a hot-air turbo, there is nowhere to put an aftercooler.) The last hot-air turbo I can think of would be a 2002 Ford van witb the 7.3 litre diesel.

Air intake temperature on an aftercooled turbo is irrelevant...the charge air cooler drops the temperature regardless of how hot the incoming air starts.

 

[Markle]

View attachment 112523 Trump's goal for America.
A smog infested country.

Your lies are duly noted!