Trump Thinks His Insane Tariffs Will Generate Manufacturing Jobs....But The "Big Beautiful Bill" Actually Eliminates Manufacturing Jobs In Red States

[Dekster]

Abigail Ross Hopper is full of poo. Nobody will be blacked out because of a data center that didn't get built. The problem with democrats is that that conflate big price tags with progress when 1) if this stuff was nearly as miraculous as billed, it wouldn't need government subsidies and 2) communities are starting to push back against these projects because they are crappy land use and solar comes with soil compaction, erosion, loss of habitat, and possible contamination. They are no more green than an effing corporate pig farm.

 

[justoffal]

Since 1. most of the US by far is Red, 2. there are not many "green energy" power plants in cities,
this is not surprising.

"More than two-thirds of renewable capacity can be found in mostly rural districts — and more than three-quarters of those lean Republican"

https://archive.is/b5qFb#selection-5813.0-5813.138

No need to waste money on a "green energy" social welfare project that will increase rates and add more unreliable power to the grid.

There is a very good reason for that. Installations like windmills and solar panel farms take up a huge amount of room and need to be placed far outside city limits. You can't just plop a 300 ft windmill in the middle of downtown anywhere..... Or take up 20 acres of prime commercial space for a solar panel installation.
You will invariably find these things miles out of town with a very expensive wire runs because of the fact that they have to be so remote.

 

[meaner gene]

There is a very good reason for that. Installations like windmills and solar panel farms take up a huge amount of room and need to be placed far outside city limits. You can't just plop a 300 ft windmill in the middle of downtown anywhere..... Or take up 20 acres of prime commercial space for a solar panel installation.
You will invariably find these things miles out of town with a very expensive wire runs because of the fact that they have to be so remote.

Have you ever heard of Niagara Falls?
Cheap hydro power brought to the US from far far far out of town for decades on expensive wires.

 

[justoffal]

Have you ever heard of Niagara Falls?
Cheap hydro power brought to the US from far far far out of town for decades on expensive wires.

Hydropower tends to be a bit more reliable than wind you're solar. Don't know how much money was spent on the transmission lines for that installation which now must be well over 50 years old I would assume. But I can tell you that the largest cost associated with a renewable utility grade installation is the high voltage transmission conductors which require three times the amount of carriage that a conventional utility would require since it requires three times the kwh of renewable to replace 1 kwh of conventional.

 

[meaner gene]

Abigail Ross Hopper is full of poo. Nobody will be blacked out because of a data center that didn't get built. The problem with democrats is that that conflate big price tags with progress when 1) if this stuff was nearly as miraculous as billed, it wouldn't need government subsidies and 2) communities are starting to push back against these projects because they are crappy land use and solar comes with soil compaction, erosion, loss of habitat, and possible contamination. They are no more green than an effing corporate pig farm.

Dual-use solar farms, also known as agrivoltaics, involve co-locating solar panel arrays with agricultural activities like crop production or livestock grazing on the same land

Economic Benefits:
It can provide a new revenue stream for farmers through electricity generation and potentially increase crop yields by providing shade and reducing water needs.
Environmental Benefits:
Solar panels can offer shade and reduce water evaporation, potentially benefiting crops. Some dual-use projects also incorporate pollinator-friendly habitats, promoting biodiversity.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

People do care, simp. You don't live there, you have no ******* idea what you are saying....as always.

.

I've spent years living very close to the ocean. Let's see how much I cared...............................

Nope. Not at all.




.

 

[justoffal]

Dual-use solar farms, also known as agrivoltaics, involve co-locating solar panel arrays with agricultural activities like crop production or livestock grazing on the same land

Economic Benefits:
It can provide a new revenue stream for farmers through electricity generation and potentially increase crop yields by providing shade and reducing water needs.
Environmental Benefits:
Solar panels can offer shade and reduce water evaporation, potentially benefiting crops. Some dual-use projects also incorporate pollinator-friendly habitats, promoting biodiversity.

I like that idea. Especially if they use the on-site generated power to drive refrigeration and other industrial equipment that has a large power draw.
This is an idea that makes sense. Although shading a green plant from the sun doesn't necessarily make it grow faster.

There was a fellow around a few years back that offered 12,000 BTU air conditioning units driven by roof panels completely disconnected from the grid. Unfortunately here in Massachusetts he's not allowed to make those installations for some mysterious reason. It's the only way I would consider using solar. It would have to be something completely detached from the local utilities politics and line charge fees.

 

[meaner gene]

Hydropower tends to be a bit more reliable than wind you're solar. Don't know how much money was spent on the transmission lines for that installation which now must be well over 50 years old I would assume. But I can tell you that the largest cost associated with a renewable utility grade installation is the high voltage transmission conductors which require three times the amount of carriage that a conventional utility would require since it requires three times the kwh of renewable to replace 1 kwh of conventional.

Solar and wind may be located out of town, no different than a nuclear power plant is located out of town. Same kind of wiring involved. High voltage transmission lines.

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.
So at those times when solar doesn't produce much power, such as cloudy, rainy, or night, that's also when the air conditioning load is at it's lowest.

So what do you find impractical about it?

 

[justoffal]

Solar and wind may be located out of town, no different than a nuclear power plant is located out of town. Same kind of wiring involved. High voltage transmission lines.

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.
So at those times when solar doesn't produce much power, such as cloudy, rainy, or night, that's also when the air conditioning load is at it's lowest.

So what do you find impractical about it?

So require 300% of the transmission line material.
It's the most expensive part of the installation for any power producer including conventional.

I posted above about a fellow who often 12,000 BTU air conditioning units driven by 48 volt DC power from a matched solar panel array completely disconnected from the grid.

I like that kind of application.
I'm sure you realize that it's not the heat that increases the solar energy but the angle of the Sun. It could be 20° out and you can max out solar panel production if the sun has had a good angle to the panels. Some panels install clock chasing motors on the panel arrays to keep the angle at maximum absorption. They tend to break down and be too expensive to maintain however.

All types of power generation are good in my opinion. They can be correlated to cooperate with each other or in some instances and somebody is located too far away from main power lines the solo and win may be the only way they can enjoy modern appliances. It's not cheaper by any means however... Just different.

 

[meaner gene]

I like that idea. Especially if they use the on-site generated power to drive refrigeration and other industrial equipment that has a large power draw.
This is an idea that makes sense. Although shading a green plant from the sun doesn't necessarily make it grow faster.

There was a fellow around a few years back that offered 12,000 BTU air conditioning units driven by roof panels completely disconnected from the grid. Unfortunately here in Massachusetts he's not allowed to make those installations for some mysterious reason. It's the only way I would consider using solar. It would have to be something completely detached from the local utilities politics and line charge fees.

Solar is latitude dependent. The further south, the greater the power generated per square foot, increasing the financial return.
The further north, the less practical solar is.

This is no different than other technologies that have varying situational fits. An example, is in the mid west, you probably don't find many Tesla taxi's. But in New York City they are becoming the predominant vehicle of choice. The reason is simple. In the rural areas, they spend all their time driving, and virtually no time sitting in traffic, so an ICE is the most efficient because of the refuel time.
But in NYC where a taxi can spend 90% of it's time in bumper to bumper traffic, unlike an ICE engine that runs continuously, an electric motor only draws power when it's moving.

 

[justoffal]

Solar is latitude dependent. The further south, the greater the power generated per square foot, increasing the financial return.
The further north, the less practical solar is.

This is no different than other technologies that have varying situational fits. An example, is in the mid west, you probably don't find many Tesla taxi's. But in New York City they are becoming the predominant vehicle of choice. The reason is simple. In the rural areas, they spend all their time driving, and virtually no time sitting in traffic, so an ICE is the most efficient because of the refuel time.
But in NYC where a taxi can spend 90% of it's time in bumper to bumper traffic, unlike an ICE engine that runs continuously, an electric motor only draws power when it's moving.

I own an EV myself.... A Nissan leaf.... not by any means the equivalent of something as fancy and expensive as a Tesla but it serves me well for the purpose I use it for. You can't travel anywhere with it but it's great for around town.... And yes it's very comforting knowing that you can sit at a long red light without burning up needless energy.

 

[meaner gene]

So require 300% of the transmission line material.
It's the most expensive part of the installation for any power producer including conventional.

I posted above about a fellow who often 12,000 BTU air conditioning units driven by 48 volt DC power from a matched solar panel array completely disconnected from the grid.

I like that kind of application.
I'm sure you realize that it's not the heat that increases the solar energy but the angle of the Sun. It could be 20° out and you can max out solar panel production if the sun has had a good angle to the panels. Some panels install clock chasing motors on the panel arrays to keep the angle at maximum absorption. They tend to break down and be too expensive to maintain however.

All types of power generation are good in my opinion. They can be correlated to cooperate with each other or in some instances and somebody is located too far away from main power lines the solo and win may be the only way they can enjoy modern appliances. It's not cheaper by any means however... Just different.

No matter if you add sun tracking, the latitude you're at determines the maximum power per square foot you can get from the sun.
In short, your power production compared to equatorial max, is the cosine of the latitude.
In Florida, solar has 90% of equatorial max, where in Massachusetts it's only 70%

 

[justoffal]

No matter if you add sun tracking, the latitude you're at determines the maximum power per square foot you can get from the sun.
In short, your power production compared to equatorial max, is the cosine of the latitude.
In Florida, solar has 90% of equatorial max, where in Massachusetts it's only 70%

They still haven't come up with a good deal here in Massachusetts because the government took over the sales and installation business using what they call trusted contractors who are probably in-laws of the politicians.

Everything is out of pocket even if you don't pay for it immediately. Standard 25-year contract for a 15 kwh installation runs about $200,000 when it's all said and done. There's no way I'm going to spend $200,000 with the utility over the next 25 years not even close. So immediately when you investigate the numbers the financial incentive simply is not there.

Now I know a few people who are well heeled enough to have purchased everything up front with cash and they are now enjoying the fruits of that purchase. Some brag that they have no electric bill but they don't like it when I point out that they had to pay somewhere between $150,000 and $200,000 to reach that point. It's fine for them I don't begrudge them anything but I do object to it when they try to make the false claim that the renewables are cheaper using the electric bill they paid $200,000 for the privilege of displaying.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Solar and wind may be located out of town, no different than a nuclear power plant is located out of town. Same kind of wiring involved. High voltage transmission lines.

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.
So at those times when solar doesn't produce much power, such as cloudy, rainy, or night, that's also when the air conditioning load is at it's lowest.

So what do you find impractical about it?

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.

When people get home from work and plug in their electric cars, I guess they won't charge them using solar.

 

[justoffal]

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.

When people get home from work and plug in their electric cars, I guess they won't charge them using solar.

Like I was explaining above all different types of power generation have their benefit to them.
The drive to eliminate hydrocarbons completely in some form of non-negotiable 100% my way or the highway deal not only is not going to fly it doesn't make any sense. An integration of the technologies is probably going to be the best path forward for everybody. They also have to stop lying about the cost.... Renewables are not cheaper by any means.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Like I was explaining above all different types of power generation have their benefit to them.
The drive to eliminate hydrocarbons completely in some form of non-negotiable 100% my way or the highway deal not only is not going to fly it doesn't make any sense. An integration of the technologies is probably going to be the best path forward for everybody. They also have to stop lying about the cost.... Renewables are not cheaper by any means.

If the greens were logical, they would support nuclear to reduce fossil fuels.

 

[justoffal]

If the greens were logical, they would support nuclear to reduce fossil fuels.

Absolutely

 

[Meathead]

So instead of manufacturing solar panels and batteries for electric vehicles, let's make cheap ass shirts and shoes and pots and pans instead!! That's a recipe for success!!

We're a very big country. We can do both. And btw, stop your incessant whining.

 

[meaner gene]

And one thing about solar in hot climates. When the sun shines its strongest, is when the air conditioning load is its greatest. When the sun goes down so does the air conditioning load.

When people get home from work and plug in their electric cars, I guess they won't charge them using solar.

Actually electric cars are a call for nuclear power.
So people can run their air conditioners, elevators, manufacturing machinery and shopping malls during the day, and charge their electric cars at night, balancing out the electrical load.

 

[Dr. Phosphorous]

We're a very big country. We can do both. And btw, stop your incessant whining.

Trump just made it much more difficult with his new bullshit bill, MAGA imbecile.