Trump says Hamas surrender will end Gaza’s woes

[toomuchtime_]

I'm probably not disagreeing. But wondering what you think that might look like? Sovereignty? Citizenship? Some sort of self-government? An Israeli Emirate? How does this circle get squared? Or does it?

I think the outcome will be defined by the process of getting there. Initially Israel will retain security control over all of Gaza and that will include managing aid, however by then most of the population will have moved to the south, and most of the aid stations will be in the south, so parts of the north will be annexed and since there will be very few Arabs present, those remaining in the north will become permanent residents but remain citizens of the Palestinian Authority.

For security reasons, Israel will not allow any large scale rebuilding of the rest of Gaza beyond repairing the infrastructure and improving the flow of aid. If the US and Israel are able to arrange it, probably most of the Arabs will prefer to emigrate, probably to north Africa, at which point Israel will annex the rest of Gaza, and what will we call it then? We will call it Israel.

 

[Shusha]

So now, of course, I am doing a deep dive into the question of when, exactly, Israeli citizenship was applied to Arabs and all the possible ramifications. Me being me.

 

[toomuchtime_]

So now, of course, I am doing a deep dive into the question of when, exactly, Israeli citizenship was applied to Arabs and all the possible ramifications. Me being me.

I can narrow that time frame down for you, with only a few exceptions, never.

When Israel annexed Jerusalem, it recognized the Arabs living there as citizens of the PA and granted them permanent resident status with the option to apply for Israeli citizenship, but there were not many of them and while they were not friendly, neither were they violent. If the time ever comes when there are not very many Arabs left in Gaza and they are not deemed a security threat and Israel has annexed all of Gaza, they, too, may become permanent residents of Israel, which is pretty much the best thing that can happen to an Arab who is not already a citizen of Israel.

 

[Roudy]

The black and American Indian populations never "agreed," to live in peace with the rest of America, the American government just made sure they had an equal opportunity to take part in civic life.

Either the government of Israel will extend to the Palestinians the same equality, give them their own state, or ethnically cleanse them.

There will be no peace otherwise, everyone knows this.

Dipstick, there are already 2 million Arab Muslims that are Israeli citizens with full rights, where do you think they came from? The Arabs who are now in Gaza and the West Bank are the refugees that were created by the wars that the Arabs started, and lost, not because they were trying to create this mythical Palestine that never existed, but because they simply wanted to destroy the Jewish state. Why should Israel be responsible for refugees the Arab aggressors created out of their lust for Jewish blood?

 

[Shusha]

I can narrow that time frame down for you, with only a few exceptions, never.

When Israel annexed Jerusalem, it recognized the Arabs living there as citizens of the PA and granted them permanent resident status with the option to apply for Israeli citizenship, but there were not many of them and while they were not friendly, neither were they violent. If the time ever comes when there are not very many Arabs left in Gaza and they are not deemed a security threat and Israel has annexed all of Gaza, they, too, may become permanent residents of Israel, which is pretty much the best thing that can happen to an Arab who is not already a citizen of Israel.

Yes, but do you see where this gets interesting for me, who approaches all this from a legal point of view? (Not only a legal point of view, but as a particular interest for me).

I mean, the citizenship of the Arabs living in the territories not controlled by Israel from 1948 on is a pinball machine.

 

[MisterBeale]

Dipstick, there are already 2 million Arab Muslims that are Israeli citizens with full rights, where do you think they came from? The Arabs who are now in Gaza and the West Bank are the refugees that were created by the wars that the Arabs started, and lost, not because they were trying to create this mythical Palestine that never existed, but because they simply wanted to destroy the Jewish state. Why should Israel be responsible for refugees the Arab aggressors created out of their lust for Jewish blood?

Israel launches new operations in Syria after strike kills soldiers

Local sources report Israeli operation in Kiswa, where six soldiers killed by Israeli drones strikes a day before.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Roudy]

View attachment 1155793

Israel launches new operations in Syria after strike kills soldiers

Local sources report Israeli operation in Kiswa, where six soldiers killed by Israeli drones strikes a day before.

www.aljazeera.com

And? That had nothing to do with Iran. You keep throwing bullshit at the wall to see what sticks. Assad has fled, Syria’s new leader is ex Al Queda.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/07/16/working-to-save-our-druze-brothers-israel-strikes-syrian-military-targets-as-violence-in-suwayda-escalates/

 

[MisterBeale]

And? That had nothing to do with Iran. You keep throwing bullshit at the wall to see what sticks. Assad has fled, Syria’s new leader is ex Al Queda.

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/07/16/working-to-save-our-druze-brothers-israel-strikes-syrian-military-targets-as-violence-in-suwayda-escalates/

Hypersensitivity to pollen of Olea europaea in Israel - PubMed

The incidence of skin-tested sensitivity to olive pollen allergens among subjects with suspected atopic respiratory allergy was investigated in various populations of Israelis. This incidence was correlated with the olive cultivars, with the abundance of trees in the patient's neighborhoods, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, but do you see where this gets interesting for me, who approaches all this from a legal point of view? (Not only a legal point of view, but as a particular interest for me).

I mean, the citizenship of the Arabs living in the territories not controlled by Israel from 1948 on is a pinball machine.

I really don't see the difficulty. Under Oslo, the Arabs in the territories are citizens of the PA. For the present, Israel is only interested in controlling these Arabs to the extent their activities threaten Israel's security.

At the end of WWII, the US and its allies occupied Germany and Japan until they became convinced the Germans and Japanese would live in peace with the rest of the world; that is the situation in Gaza now. The so called Palestinians living in Gaza are citizens of the PA living in the unincorporated piece of land called Gaza under Israeli security control until such time they are willing to live in peace with Israel/Jews. There are no laws or principles of law that override a nation's security considerations.
As a practical matter, Israel will not annex parts of Gaza with large Arab populations, so if a few Arabs do live on land Israel annexes, legally they would become undocumented aliens and Israel would have to decide whether to deport them or give them resident status, and I imagine that would be decided on a case by case basis.

Are there legal issues I have missed?

 

[Roudy]

Hypersensitivity to pollen of Olea europaea in Israel - PubMed

The incidence of skin-tested sensitivity to olive pollen allergens among subjects with suspected atopic respiratory allergy was investigated in various populations of Israelis. This incidence was correlated with the olive cultivars, with the abundance of trees in the patient's neighborhoods, and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Is that the best you got?! Just shows how pathetic you truly are. I suppose here in the U.S. every time it’s allergy season in spring and fall, “the land itself is rejecting the people” that are getting these airborne allergies, so better they get leave, cause they don’t belong here. That is your logic.

You are a sick freak.

 

[Shusha]

As a practical matter, Israel will not annex parts of Gaza with large Arab populations, so if a few Arabs do live on land Israel annexes, legally they would become undocumented aliens and Israel would have to decide whether to deport them or give them resident status, and I imagine that would be decided on a case by case basis.

There is no obligation to confer nationality on residents under international law, that I can find, not even to prevent statelessness, though that is something a State can sign on to and is working its way into customary IHL. Nationality is purely a domestic matter. (Though there are draft articles which would seek to change this).

While I'm not sure I would use the term "undocumented alien", whether we consider them stateless or Palestinian nationals (assuming Palestinian nationality exists, even without a Palestinian citizenship law), there is no obligation to confer Israeli nationality that I can find.

That said, I see no reason not to offer the small number of remaining Arabs Israeli citizenship should they wish to apply for it, possibly with the requirement of renouncing their Palestinian nationality. Deportations should be limited to security concerns.