Stratford57 - Propaganda isn't always blatant lies - and usually has a portion of truth that appeals to what one already believes or wants to believe.
In that regard the facts as presented by TASS and RT America are questionable - not as in outright lies always, but as in half truths, or incomplete truths, or facts viewed through a biased perspective. I think there can be little doubt that both are ultimately funded by the government of Russia...and in the case of RT America the propaganda is directed to US viewers.
That said, I do not buy into the theory of Russian collusion, or election interference as portrayed by some of my own country's media. Hillary was her own undoing, not ads run by Russian 'farmers'.
I'm sure you're aware that more and more Americans are suspicious of our establishment media. We've always had an 'adversarial' relationship with Washington - it's in our DNA.
What happened in former Soviet satellite countries, or former territories following the dissolution is tragic. How far back must we go to find a peaceful, prosperous, independent Georgia, or Ukraine? Who shot down MH17? Russia lost valuable territory when it lost Ukraine and Georgia. NATO and the EU were coming too close for comfort. It is no coincidence that Russia found cause to move into territories along the Black Sea to 'protect' them.
I can't deny Western involvement behind the scenes - how deep or influential it is, I don't know. None of your information casts any shadows on Putin - yet he is the one who gained the most...and there are credible sources who believe he fomented much of the conflict to begin with, in order to then come in and restore order. Looking at the territory under Russian control, and thinking of seaports and oil pipelines lends credence to those reports. Putin threatened to hold Europe hostage over oil. That would make him a hero in Russian eyes, a villain to others. We have a saying, maybe you've heard it - 'Follow the money'...and the money trail here leads to Putin...and perhaps his friends in the Russian mob?
Putin is neither hero nor villain in my eyes. We are not going to war with Russia over Georgia and Ukraine, that's certain. The UN, just as certainly, has a loud mouth and a very small stick. Sanctions against Russia can be justified - but their effectiveness is debatable. The people of Russia may have never experienced constitutional self governance - but they deserve peace and prosperity. Putin may be a plutocrat, but he's Russia's plutocrat with promises to deliver, and in the process, a people to unite against a common enemy...appealing to their pride and nationalism.
I get that.
I am far removed from Ukraine, it is your country - and as you've pointed out there is disagreement even among Ukrainians. The US President and the Russian President should be talking...that I agree with.
But - there is an intriguing contradiction. Any Russian admirer of Putin should applaud Obama's whispered promise of greater 'flexibility'...his stance on missile defense for Poland for example. When RT published the video of that exchange - was it in agreement...or criticism?
Very wordy, sorry...but as internet diplomats our work here is of great importance.
Sincerely though - the loss of life and happiness in your country is tragic...for that I am truly saddened..
I understand your post was for me and I am ready to reply, it's gonna be long again, sorry.
Let’s start from Berlin wall fall. I was happy for Germans, I thought it was great for the nation to reunite (I would have never thought millions of Russians including myself were going to be artificially separated from our Motherland in just a few years!)
VLADIMIR PUTIN: I see the collapse of the Soviet Union as a great tragedy of the 20th century. Do you know why? First of all,
because 25 million of Russian people suddenly turned out to be outside the borders of the Russian Federation. They used to live in one state; the Soviet Union has traditionally been called Russia, the Soviet Russia, and it was the 'greater Russia'.
Then the Soviet Union suddenly fell apart, in fact, overnight, and it turned out that in the former Soviet Union republics there were 25 million Russians. They used to live in one country and suddenly found themselves abroad. Can you imagine how many problems came out?
First, there were everyday issues,
the separation of families, the economic and social problems. The list is endless. Do you think it is normal that 25 million people, Russian people, suddenly found themselves abroad?
The Russians have turned out to be the largest divided nation in the world nowadays. Is that not a problem? It is not a problem for you as it is for me.
Sott Exclusive: Full unedited text of Vladimir Putin's interview with Charlie Rose: What CBS left out -- Sott.net
I agree with him 100%.
Also Reagan has promised Gorbachev if he destroys Berlin Wall, NATO will never move an inch towards the East. Where is NATO now? Next to Russia’s borders.
Well, Seagal, I’m watching American Media since 2005 and I see it has been purposefully distorting the truth about Russia and post-Soviet republics. In 2005 Soros and his puppet Bush organized and sponsored Orange revolution in Ukraine and as I can see now it was a try-out for the 2014 coup. Ukrainian Constitution was violated, the Supreme court judges were threatened to “make a correct decision because we know where your parents and children currently are ”, a witness “committed suicide” with two bullets in his head, and so on and on. Meanwhile American Media has been screaming about “democracy in Ukraine”.
2008: Georgia attacked Ossetia where Russian peacemakers were according to UN permission.
PRESIDENT MEDVEDEV: As you know, Russia has maintained and continues to maintain a presence on Georgian territory on an absolutely lawful basis, carrying out its peacekeeping mission in accordance with the agreements concluded. We have always considered maintaining the peace to be our paramount task. Russia has historically been a guarantor for the security of the peoples of the Caucasus, and this remains true today.
Last night, Georgian troops committed what amounts to an act of aggression against Russian peacekeepers and the civilian population in South Ossetia. What took place is a gross violation of international law and of the mandates that the international community gave Russia as a partner in the peace process.
Georgia’s acts have caused loss of life, including among Russian peacekeepers. The situation reached the point where Georgian peacekeepers opened fire on the Russian peacekeepers with whom they are supposed to work together to carry out their mission of maintaining peace in this region. Civilians, women, children and old people, are dying today in South Ossetia, and the majority of them are citizens of the Russian Federation.
Statements on Russia-Georgia Conflict - Russia
Sarkozy: Let's put the things clearly. There
was a Georgian military intervention.
^a witness says: it’s Mr. Saakashvili who started this war
American Media is screaming: “Big Russia attacked small Georgia!”
2014: Obama’s administration + McCain + Soros organizes and sponsors anti-Constitutional coup in Ukraine and Ukraine goes under total control from Washington. American Media: “Putin invaded Ukraine!”
All that has been the links of the same chain: to keep invading post-Soviet republics, to create anti-Russian belt under Russia’s belly and at the same time to blame Russia for that. Too bad so many Western people believe their lying Media.
Also you’ve mentioned Russia threatening to cut oil supplies to Europe. It is not true either. The Russian pipe to Europe goes through Ukraine and after that Orange revolution Ukraine started stealing gas from the pipe and thus made Europe frees. West immediately blamed Russia for that too.
Ukraine accused of stealing Russian gas as fuel flow declines
If Ukraine tries to steal Europe-bound gas, Gazprom will develop alternative routes - Miller
But nevertheless thank you, SeaGal, for all your interest to our region.
Sabine Fischer, Science and Politics Foundation, Berlin: Mr President,
What political mistakes, in your opinion, has Russia made in its relations with the West over the past 15 years and what needs to be done, what conclusions need to be drawn for the future of these relations?
Vladimir Putin:
Our most serious mistake in relations with the West is that we trusted you too much. And your mistake is that you took that trust as weakness and abused it. It is therefore necessary to put this behind us, turn the page and move on, building our relations on the basis of mutual respect and treating each other as equal partners of equal value.
Meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club
