Trump is not happy with Ukraine's success against Russian millitary.

[AntonToo]

They lost the quick war. they are winning the long war.

What winning? In what crazy scenario this ends well for Russia?

A win for Russia would be a bullet to Putin's head, blaming the war on his regime, sending their Vankya's back to their families/jobs and moving on to normalizing relations and trade.

 

[martybegan]

What winning? In what crazy scenario this ends well for Russia?

A win for Russia would be a bullet to Putin's head, blaming the war on his regime, sending their Vankya's back to their families/jobs and moving on to normalizing relations and trade.

Right now they occupy most of the land they would claim in any settlement.

 

[AntonToo]

Right now they occupy most of the land they would claim in any settlement.

They got knocked out of Kherson and never got anywhere close to Zaporozhie city - two major regional centers of territories Russia already wrote into their constitution.

This is from Kherson, proclaiming it is part of Russia forever (it was liberated by Ukranians a month later)

 

[martybegan]

They got knocked out of Kherson and never got anywhere close to Zaporozhie city - two major regional centers of territories Russia already wrote into their constitution.

This is from Kherson, proclaiming it is part of Russia forever (it was liberated by Ukranians a month later)

They still control most of the land they would demand in a settlement.

 

[AntonToo]

They still control most of the land they would demand in a settlement.

And? Whats the win?

Three years, a million Russians wounded and killed,
Ukraine's leadership and forces intact, not "denazified", not "demilitarized".
Russia has to make concessions of lands in their constitution.
Russia will remain a sanctioned country for as long as it keeps the occupied territories.
Russia will remain an isolated international periah state that foreign investment will avoid like plague.

 

[martybegan]

And? Whats the win?

Three years, a million Russians wounded and killed,
Ukraine's leadership and forces intact, not "denazified", not "demilitarized".
Russia has to make concessions of lands in their constitution.
Russia will remain a sanctioned country for as long as it keeps the occupied territories.
Russia will remain an isolated international periah that foreign investment will avoid like plague.

They get most of the land they wanted.

 

[AntonToo]

They get most of the land they wanted.

I don't think you are listening.

Russia went to war to take control of Ukraine. They failed miserably.

Thats why Putin is not interested in a peace deal. He knows that if he just gets what you are talking about then it's overall a loss and a failure to meet any of the goals he voiced as a rationalization for the full scale invasion.

Some land-grab is not what Putin was talking about, it's just all he could get after 3 years of meatgrinder for Russians.

 

[martybegan]

I don't think you are listening.

I don't think you actually are aware of the situation on the ground, or the fact that both Ukraine and Russia come from ethnic stocks of stubborn assholes.

What an American calls unacceptable losses Russians/Ukrainians consider "Tuesday"

 

[AntonToo]

I don't think you actually are aware of the situation on the ground, or the fact that both Ukraine and Russia come from ethnic stocks of stubborn assholes.

What an American calls unacceptable losses Russians/Ukrainians consider "Tuesday"

Read my post again. You are clueless about the Russian side politics of it.

 

[martybegan]

Read my post again. You are clueless about the Russian side politics of it.

You are looking at it through rose colored glasses. I've read your post, it's the same Ukranian propaganda that the others spew out.

The simple facts are Russia has most of the land it would demand in a settlement, and 3 years of "sanctions" haven't done squat to make Putin vulnerable to a coup.

Russia's economy and resource base are too large for South African style sanctions to work.

That, and Europe is still paying them for Oil and Gas, 3 years later.

 

[AntonToo]

You are looking at it through rose colored glasses.

Is Putin looking at it through rose colored glasses when he refuses ceasefire?

Obviousy he is not satisfied with what he got after 3 years of war and what you are saying fails to explain that, while what I'm saying clearly spells out for you why.

 

[martybegan]

Is Putin looking at it through rose colored glasses when he refuses ceasefire?

Obviousy he is not satisfied with what he got after 3 years of war and what you are saying fails to explain that, while what I'm saying clearly spells out for you why.

He's got the better hand right now unless NATO wants to intervene or at least make the sanctions more like a blockade.

 

[krichton]

Trump sent Javelin missiles to Ukraine as an official military transference. Under Obama the State Department authorized PRIVATE transference of weapons directly from U.S. manufacturers. This way there would be no official record and the Obama administration could keep its nose squeaky clean while helping U.S. contractors to get rich. Obama was a mastermind at using our government to help corporations since day one. the only catch was the dealings of the corporations had had to serve the agenda of the government. Then both of them could simply look the other way while each was getting what it wanted out of the deal, with nearly zero evidence that would ever reach the public eye.

But your first claim was the US was planting weapons in Ukraine to push Russia off the world stage. That kind of massive military buildup cannot be done covertly. We have seen Russia's mechanized army. The vastness of it is beyond imagination even if it is old, outdated or sometimes in shambles. Just their tanks alone amounts to maybe 10,000. How would covertly selling Ukraine a few weapons systems have pushed Russia off some world stage? Even once the war started US companies couldn't even keep up the production of shells and missiles to send to Ukraine when everything was out in the open. These are the kinds of tales best left in your head, because in there, there's no one to challenge your beliefs or logic, or conspiracy theories.

 

[krichton]

Why is it he only made moves under weak kneed liberal administrations?

Does Putin look scared of a so called "strong" right wing administration right now? This is what happens when reality pierces that thick headed and dumb right wing maga rhetoric.

 

[krichton]

The total bill for 20 years of the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan was over $8 trillion.

How big of a piece of that is $80 billion, shitforbrains?

Answer: .001%.

Most of the money spent in that region was in Afghanistan....because Afghanistan was twice as long as Iraq, and most of our forces were shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan under Obama. Course Obama left a crapload of weapons systems behind in Iraq too....which was used to arm and create ISIS.
But for some strange reason you nimrods want to to minimize the aid that Biden and Obama gave our enemies.
Let's not forget all of the facilities we built while we were over there. And we just left them for our enemies to use as they please.
Really smart.
We should have dropped MOWABs on top of all of them so the Taliban couldn't use them.

So.....because we spent a lot of money, that must absolutely mean that we left 80 billion in Afghanistan? This is typical braindead maga logic. The Pentagon had already stated how much we left there, in front of Congress and it was 7 billion dollars, dumb, dumb. I already stated this in my last reply. There's nothing left to argue over, except your own dumb conspiracy theories, which I couldn't care less about.

 

[AntonToo]

He's got the better hand right now unless NATO wants to intervene or at least make the sanctions more like a blockade.

You are not answering the question you are quoting.

We both know why.

 

[Delldude]

Does Putin look scared of a so called "strong" right wing administration right now? This is what happens when reality pierces that thick headed and dumb right wing maga rhetoric.

Strong right wing administration didn't make this mess.

 

[martybegan]

You are not answering the question you are quoting.

We both know why.

I am looking at the situation without propaganda bullshit from either side.

 

[mudwhistle]

So.....because we spent a lot of money, that must absolutely mean that we left 80 billion in Afghanistan? This is typical braindead maga logic. The Pentagon had already stated how much we left there, in front of Congress and it was 7 billion dollars, dumb, dumb. I already stated this in my last reply. There's nothing left to argue over, except your own dumb conspiracy theories, which I couldn't care less about.

Wrong.

The original price tag was estimated at over $80 billion.

I don't give a damned what you claim they said in front of congress later. The original reports stated otherwise.

Snopes tried to put a good spin on the totals.....but even they cannot say how much money the equipment and weapons that Biden left behind cost.

 

[Delldude]

Wrong.

The original price tag was estimated at over $80 billion.

I don't give a damned what you claim they said in front of congress later. The original reports stated otherwise.

Snopes tried to put a good spin on the totals.....but even they cannot say how much money the equipment and weapons that Biden left behind cost.

Trump keeps mentioning the $85 billion figure. He has the receipts.
So this is another example of the media circling the wagons around Joe Biden.
Another example of Bidens ineptitude at the helm.